[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[Bargraphics]

Strap in...  It's going to be awhile.

Does this mean no dividends for at least 4 more years?

email scott.johnson@sos.mo.gov and let him know your concerns on this issue!

I am starting to think it is a good idea to contact the gov and let them know that they are holding us up from getting the shares that we have paid for.

Look I understand if the shares must be frozen for the next several years rendering no chance of selling them.

However, the dividend must be paid.

Ken, the investigation could last 4 years, this means no trading for 4 years. However you must pay the dividend.

Think about it; if you essentially pay nothing back to us for the next 4 years, do you really think we are just going to sit around and let you keep the dividends?

Ken, you can't not pay your investors a cent for the next 4 years.

You do understand that dividends only come after profit right?

There's no profit currently at all, just cashflow that's recovering current expenses (Which is a start and a good thing as there was none of this previously)

Since we have no financial documents we'd have no idea on just how much debt needs to be paid til we are "profiting". Currently you can be almost 100% sure that he is taking the BTC mined and using it to buy more chips/boards to build a bigger mine.

Will this approach work? Maybe or maybe not but one thing is for certain, we do not have a choice in the matter and won't be receiving dividends until Ken feels the mine/card sales 25% "reinvestment" is enough to cover future purchases/expenses.

[Ozymandias2]

Strap in...  It's going to be awhile.

Does this mean no dividends for at least 4 more years?

email scott.johnson@sos.mo.gov and let him know your concerns on this issue!

I am starting to think it is a good idea to contact the gov and let them know that they are holding us up from getting the shares that we have paid for.

Look I understand if the shares must be frozen for the next several years rendering no chance of selling them.

However, the dividend must be paid.

Ken, the investigation could last 4 years, this means no trading for 4 years. However you must pay the dividend.

Think about it; if you essentially pay nothing back to us for the next 4 years, do you really think we are just going to sit around and let you keep the dividends?

Ken, you can't not pay your investors a cent for the next 4 years.

You do understand that dividends only come after profit right?

There's no profit currently at all, just cashflow that's recovering current expenses (Which is a start and a good thing as there was none of this previously)

Since we have no financial documents we'd have no idea on just how much debt needs to be paid til we are "profiting". Currently you can be almost 100% sure that he is taking the BTC mined and using it to buy more chips/boards to build a bigger mine.

Will this approach work? Maybe or maybe not but one thing is for certain, we do not have a choice in the matter and won't be receiving dividends until Ken feels the mine/card sales 25% "reinvestment" is enough to cover future purchases/expenses.

This would be a reasonable guess, but the mining income has not left the dividend address. Perhaps/Probably the sales revenue could be going where you suggest

[tempestb]

To be fair, I think most people here felt they were investing in a Belize company when they invested.  I know I did.  However, the Securities laws in the U.S. don't care where your business registration is setup at, they care about where business is conducted.  And so because Ken is in the States, he's subject to State (And Federal) law.  So by you telling them you invested in his illegal security, you're throwing him on the fire.  Not a good idea for the welfare of the business.  He can get socked at $100,000 an incident.

As to Dividends...  I think technically that Ken may not run afoul of the MSD investigation or the SEC (If there was one going on) because he hasn't paid a dividend to anyone.  At the moment a bunch of people gave Ken money for his business, but there has been no profit sharing.  So technically (and it's a stretch) it's not a security.  Which is probably why he doesn't want to give people their shares, because then they'd be wanting their dividend and he'd be in trouble.

I don't think Ken can EVER pay dividends.  Well...  He could, but he'd have to pick up and move out of the country and conduct business in a nation that allows this to happen.  Because even if the current MSD investigation ends, the minute he pays a dividend means he is engaged with an unregulated security and they can open it up again and charge him.

Alternatively, Ken could register as a real investment security, but I think he'd need a crap load of money to do that.  

At the moment, he may not be in trouble with the law.  Except CT...  But again, if he hasn't paid a dividend on CT, it's possible that he isn't doing anything wrong.  I'm not a lawyer, and that's pretty shaky, but it's possible.

That said, there are other non-security laws that would be broken if Ken promised a return on an investment and did not fulfill that obligation.  

[WildFire.ca]

Ken when are you going to find the time to fix the $%J&*#$ web site. Our current products are hard to find and there in a sea of crap that we will never produce. If the products are hard to find then how do we expect anyone to buy them. \

@thefunkybits  Nice write up.

[Ozymandias2]

Strap in...  It's going to be awhile.

Does this mean no dividends for at least 4 more years?

email scott.johnson@sos.mo.gov and let him know your concerns on this issue!

I am starting to think it is a good idea to contact the gov and let them know that they are holding us up from getting the shares that we have paid for.

thats what i just did. Try your best to be professional if you do this

Heres a shortened version of my email-


"I am a holder of shares in ActiveMining's Bitcoin farm/profit share. I am a Canadian citizen. I am contacting you because I am concerned for my investment. Although I'm happy with the way the company is running now (products finally shipping and the mining farm being built) the investigation by the MSD is the only thing troubling me. Now that things are finally looking up for this company all I want to do is trade my shares. It's very frustrating being a Canadian citizen and seeing a registered exchange in my country (Havelock) with similar securites trading while our shares are frozen due to an american investigation. In my frustration I would like to point out that the bitcoin world is very fast moving, and it seems as if ACTM/VMC's success is moving faster than the legal system can keep up with. At the time an investigation was filed with your organization many shareholders (including myself) were skeptical of Ken's actions. This is not the case anymore (for most) as Ken is living up to his promises. Ken has stated that we can't verify our shares due to this ongoing investigation, I have heard these things can take years. I'm not sure what I would if our shares were locked up any longer (contacting a lawyer comes to mind but I figured I would contact you directly as this investigation seems to be the cause for my concern). I am very excited for the future of this company but the ongoing investigation of Activemining is leaving a dark cloud on this whole thing"

Just for the record, Havelock is registered in Panama, not Canada

[minerpart]

Currently you can be almost 100% sure that he is taking the BTC mined and using it to buy more chips/boards to build a bigger mine.

Well you can't actually because it's going into and staying in the mining Wallet - as it has been for the past 12months or so.

[RoadStress]

You were told you could post in the thread if you removed the ads from your Sig and stopped trying to damage the company. This you ignored and you have reposted the same deleted messages over and over. That is Trolling.

Ignoring the fact that this is not the definition of trolling, now I have removed my Sig. Guess I am allowed to post here now.

So what's the status of the current chip project?

[chairforce1]

Ken when are you going to find the time to fix the $%J&*#$ web site. Our current products are hard to find and there in a sea of crap that we will never produce. If the products are hard to find then how do we expect anyone to buy them. \

It seems that Darin Carolus should be all over this as it is his sole job to manage this. Bringing me to my beaten to death question. Can we get an overview of what the employees of VMC/AMC are doing through the week? I would like to know what projects people are doing. I would also like to know how much is being spent weekly on paying the employees of VMC/AMC.

THANKS

The current company structure is as follows:

Active Mining Corporation Management Team:

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO/CTO

Virtual Mining Corporation Management Team:

Kenneth E. Slaughter, CEO/CTO
Gerald L. Slaughter, COO/CFO
Micah Slaughter, VP Manufacturing Operations
Darin Carolus, VP Marketing

VMC also has 2 in-house Engineers in San Jose and a Project Manager working very closely with eASIC.

ACtM company offices are in Springfield MO - VMC website http://virtualminingcorp.com/index.html

Shares currently available at https://crypto-trade.com/tradex/ipo/amc_btc

[minerpart]

It seems that Darin Carolus should be all over this as it is his sole job to manage this.

Possibly but I read somewhere that all family have been taken off the payroll a while ago - maybe when the project manager came onboard. So this Darin could have been an in-law or cousin? From what goes on this looks like a one-man show now. Looks like Ken is doing the website, the shipping, accounts, DC, refunds, sweeping the floors.   

[LorenzoMoney]

Today, I spoke with the lawyer assigned to the Active Mining case for about 20 minutes.

I learned a great deal about what the process of strategizing for a case against a bitcoin company is all about.

I shared my opinion with the lawyer that forcing a liquidation of Active Mining might not be in anyone's interest. The lawyer, to his credit listened to me. I told him that I am that I am the 6th largest shareholder of Active Mining shares. He is interested in getting a list of all the share holders. Does anyone know where to find the final list of shareholders from BitFunder?

In any case, I shared with the lawyer the view of most of the guys in #ActM that now is a bad time for a law suit since Ken is finally delivering product.  I told him that my opinion is that Ken is did not intended to scam anyone. He just is an engineer with poor communication skills who had a big dream and made a series of bad decisions, and that there is still great potential for the company. The lawyer asked me about what outcome I would like to see. I told him that I would like to see a real P & L sheet (the lawyer asked me if Ken had provided one), and that I would like to know the truth about the eAsic deal. I also said that one outcome I would like to see is that real stock shares be issued, real voting shares, and that a real management team be installed to make further decisions.  We talked about the MSD, and I learned that sometimes an investigation can result in resolution if the pseudo-stock issuer comes clean and goes legit.  These cases can get settled if everyone is happy. Also, I seemed to get the sense that incorporating in Belize does not really matter. I made sure the lawyer understood that I like Ken, and that it is my belief that Ken had and has no malicious intent, but that Ken is a very poor communicator and has made some bad decisions and has hid information from the shareholders.

I would like to get the most accurate list of shareholders' bitcoin addresses and the amount of shares each shareholder had.
If anyone has that file or knows where to find it, please contact me or post here.

I also would like for trading to resume quickly. Also, I would like to know as a shareholder, what the financial state of the company is. In any other company, shareholders have that right. I personally like Ken, but he has been way too secretive with us for way too long.

Yes, this may be a bad time to put pressure on Ken, but it seems he only shares information with us and goes into action when pressure is placed on him.

By the way, Ken promised everyone who owned more than 100,000 shares a discount on one of the Fast Hash 80s. That is the main reason I bought over 100,000 shares. Ken, how will you honor that promise?

To reiterate, when the lawyer asked me what my ideal outcome would be, I said that it should be that Active Mining be profitable, and if that means that Ken is forced to issue voting shares and that a proper management team take over, so be it.


  


http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation

[minerpart]

Today, I spoke with the lawyer assigned to the Active Mining case for about 20 minutes
http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation

This lawyer from Wood is doing a consumer case. Nothing to do with securities regulations which are procecuted by Federal or State agencies like the MSD. The lawyer has no ability to harm this companys trading except sue for damages for unshipped miners or unfulfilled refunds (possibly lost divs) - which may amount to a few k dollars per claimant. That is why he wants all the shareholders names so he can contact them all and persuade them to sue the company for as much money as possible. He has zero ability to implement any restructuring of the company, liquidate the company, have accounts done, make Ken shine his shoes.

He strung you along like a fish. The more names you give him the more money he will make and the more money actm will loose in damages. If you want the company to succeed and not be bankrupted by Woods case then do not talk to him again.

You should know this it was made clear a few days ago.

[LorenzoMoney]

If you want the company to succeed, you should put pressure on Ken to accept a proper management team and for Ken to come clean with P&L data.

The fact is, pressure put upon a company can force it to liquidate or force it to restructure.

Pretty much you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to law or lawyers. All that aside, all Ken has to do is to allow for trading, and deliver on his promises and most of the problems will go away.


 

Today, I spoke with the lawyer assigned to the Active Mining case for about 20 minutes
http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation

This lawyer from Wood is doing a consumer case. Nothing to do with securities regulations which are procecuted by Federal or State agencies like the MSD. The lawyer has no ability to harm this companys trading except sue for damages for unshipped miners or unfulfilled refunds (possibly lost divs) - which may amount to a few k dollars per claimant. That is why he wants all the shareholders names so he can contact them all and persuade them to sue the company for as much money as possible. He has zero ability to implement any restructuring of the company, liquidate the company, have accounts done, make Ken shine his shoes.

He strung you along like a fish. The more names you give him the more money he will make and the more money actm will loose in damages. If you want the company to succeed and not be bankrupted by Woods case then do not talk to him again.

You should know this it was made clear a few days ago.

[drawingthesun]

Now this situation is getting out of hand.

The case with wood should be avoided. If a lawsuit causes Ken to lose too much money then he will be forced to make the company go bankrupt, this is not in the best interest of the investors and probably not the best case for the customers, too little would be recovered. There is a party that would make bank, and that is the firm and the lawyer. Please remember that.

Wood will only bring the lawsuit with the intention of making a chunk of ActiveMining lasts balance before going under, we'll all be left to rot. This firm is not to be trusted.

Many law firms specialise in preying on dying companies often taking the remaining cash for their fees.

We need to tread carefully with the MSD, but Wood must be avoided. Ken currently has 200 bitcoin left, the rest of the money is in our 70THs, It's likely Ken's lawyer will cost that last 200 bitcoin just to defend.

Remember that too, you want Wood to get some money back from Ken? Sure, after Ken's lawyer and wood make at least $100,000 each I doubt there will be much left to distribute to the investors. And if the company goes bankrupt it's likely the customers will never see a cent.

This all goes back to what I said originally, letting Ken play out whatever game his playing is the only chance we ever make any money, litigating will have ill effect for sure.

[pedrog]

Today, I spoke with the lawyer assigned to the Active Mining case for about 20 minutes.

I learned a great deal about what the process of strategizing for a case against a bitcoin company is all about.

I shared my opinion with the lawyer that forcing a liquidation of Active Mining might not be in anyone's interest. The lawyer, to his credit listened to me. I told him that I am that I am the 6th largest shareholder of Active Mining shares. He is interested in getting a list of all the share holders. Does anyone know where to find the final list of shareholders from BitFunder?

In any case, I shared with the lawyer the view of most of the guys in #ActM that now is a bad time for a law suit since Ken is finally delivering product.  I told him that my opinion is that Ken is did not intended to scam anyone. He just is an engineer with poor communication skills who had a big dream and made a series of bad decisions, and that there is still great potential for the company. The lawyer asked me about what outcome I would like to see. I told him that I would like to see a real P & L sheet (the lawyer asked me if Ken had provided one), and that I would like to know the truth about the eAsic deal. I also said that one outcome I would like to see is that real stock shares be issued, real voting shares, and that a real management team be installed to make further decisions.  We talked about the MSD, and I learned that sometimes an investigation can result in resolution if the pseudo-stock issuer comes clean and goes legit.  These cases can get settled if everyone is happy. Also, I seemed to get the sense that incorporating in Belize does not really matter. I made sure the lawyer understood that I like Ken, and that it is my belief that Ken had and has no malicious intent, but that Ken is a very poor communicator and has made some bad decisions and has hid information from the shareholders.

I would like to get the most accurate list of shareholders' bitcoin addresses and the amount of shares each shareholder had.
If anyone has that file or knows where to find it, please contact me or post here.

I also would like for trading to resume quickly. Also, I would like to know as a shareholder, what the financial state of the company is. In any other company, shareholders have that right. I personally like Ken, but he has been way too secretive with us for way too long.

Yes, this may be a bad time to put pressure on Ken, but it seems he only shares information with us and goes into action when pressure is placed on him.

By the way, Ken promised everyone who owned more than 100,000 shares a discount on one of the Fast Hash 80s. That is the main reason I bought over 100,000 shares. Ken, how will you honor that promise?

To reiterate, when the lawyer asked me what my ideal outcome would be, I said that it should be that Active Mining be profitable, and if that means that Ken is forced to issue voting shares and that a proper management team take over, so be it.


  


http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation

Thanks for your insight Lorenzo.

Here's the historical data from Bitfunder:

https://btct.co/history-bitfunder/

Bear in mind people start transferring shares to AMC-TENDER way before the shutdown.

[Jasun7211]

Lorenzo. I am with you 100 percenet.   As a good sized shareholder of about 5k shares I second everything you have to say and can use this post as evidence if the laywer asks you how shareholders feel.......I'd rather this endevour die trying than from the hands of a bureaucratic red tape snarl that we all don't need at this point.   We all can see the funds in the blockchain, which as we all know is a lot more secure than fiat business books.   This project and any btc project should be done as natural as possible, with free flowing info on both sides, and we all should have more faith in the blockchains function, and let it do what it was created to do.  Even flif we had all the htc addresses that would be good enough for me at this point.   I think we all feel Ken is doing as good of a job as he can, and although we can't trade our shares, they are in a public ledger, we all know where they are, and should be in ths for the long haul.  If actm is a succuess or fails, I think we have seen enough progress on many fronts to know that Ken is doing some due dilligence, and should be allowed to operate uunencumbered, untill we all agree not to.  Wasn't this probe started by volcanic eruptor anyways?   If so we all know that dumb history....on both sides....but Ken learned....

This probe is just a ghost haunting us from the past, and will be shaken iff soon.  We are already in a new phase of actm...this probe was created in another era of actm.  Just my opinion

[JoTheKhan]

Thanks for your insight Lorenzo.

Here's the historical data from Bitfunder:

https://btct.co/history-bitfunder/

Bear in mind people start transferring shares to AMC-TENDER way before the shutdown.

Yup, I am on the list previous to 10-27-2013 but I tendered my shares that day and am no longer on the list on 10-28-2013. I can prove I tendered my shares and had them if it comes to it, but the most recent list definitely do not have all the share holders on it.

[JoTheKhan]

From the looks of it actually. It seems 8.6 Million shares were Tendered out of 10 Million public shares.

[knybe]

Last fall, I compiled an xl spreadsheet of all shares/public addresses that adds up to 10,000,000 shares… if anyone is interested.


EDIT: list is from BitFunder

[VinceSamios]

Guys,

Woods only have a case if you give them a case. If you think giving them a case is in your best interests then you're a brain dead retard.

Don't speak to woods, don't give them a case. They can only act for you if you ask them to.

[st4nl3y]

ey up
Ken, did any of the VMC products got shipped out outside US? or maybe an EU customer care to share his experience?