The Cypherfunks[FUNK]: a coin for a global band! Talking v2. Join! 80+ songs

[BuckSnot]

Yeah like a shared Dropbox folder and it would be nice if you could add files, download files but not be able to delete any?

[mckmuze]

Im using Bittorrent sync. I really like it for file sharing.

[BuckSnot]

Im using Bittorrent sync. I really like it for file sharing.

Kool sounds more decentralized, I deleted all my Dropbox accounts when C Rice was hired!


Hey I got a question, if we get a real cool popular hit song would we ever list it on ITunes or beat port or for sale anywhere? I have had a idea for a few years for a song that I think if done right could be big, REAL BIG ;]


Update: I looked at the Bittorrent sync and this looks like it will work great, For each song we can even make it read only then add a new folder for song updates if we want, at least this way someone cant just start deleting files lol - we just need a place to keep track of what folders hold what songs im guessn, another thing that would be cool is if the cypherfunks members or contributors had a place on the website to be listed if they wish to be like...

Nick - BuckSnot
Name - Richard H
Age - 39
Location - Billings Montana USA
Equipment - Ableton Live Suite, Push, APC40, Launchpad, Ipad, & Many soundpacks and VST's
Style - Unknown...
FUNK - FUNKaddress
BTC - BTCaddress
and so on ;]
Just ideas me friends...

[simondlr]

Im using Bittorrent sync. I really like it for file sharing.

Kool sounds more decentralized, I deleted all my Dropbox accounts when C Rice was hired!


Hey I got a question, if we get a real cool popular hit song would we ever list it on ITunes or beat port or for sale anywhere? I have had a idea for a few years for a song that I think if done right could be big, REAL BIG ;]


Update: I looked at the Bittorrent sync and this looks like it will work great, For each song we can even make it read only then add a new folder for song updates if we want, at least this way someone cant just start deleting files lol - we just need a place to keep track of what folders hold what songs im guessn, another thing that would be cool is if the cypherfunks members or contributors had a place on the website to be listed if they wish to be like...

Nick - BuckSnot
Name - Richard H
Age - 39
Location - Billings Montana USA
Equipment - Ableton Live Suite, Push, APC40, Launchpad, Ipad, & Many soundpacks and VST's
Style - Unknown...
FUNK - FUNKaddress
BTC - BTCaddress
and so on ;]
Just ideas me friends...

Bittorent Sync looks cool! A directory could be cool as well.

Been a bit busy this week, so I'll try go get to that draft post about FUNK v2 somewhere this weekend. I'll try!

[soundposition]

i still have my little gpu pointed at the p2pool, just wanted to post that the wallet is still unstable, falls out of synch 2-3 times a day, last 5 days

pulling in 3 mil a day w/88 khps anyway   

I'm throwing my 1 MH/S at it to see if it unsticks. It might take a few hours to find the next block.

[n00bnoxious]

i still have my little gpu pointed at the p2pool, just wanted to post that the wallet is still unstable, falls out of synch 2-3 times a day, last 5 days

pulling in 3 mil a day w/88 khps anyway   

I'm throwing my 1 MH/S at it to see if it unsticks. It might take a few hours to find the next block.

If things stick again let me know and I'll fire my 2.8Mh at it.

[soundposition]

i still have my little gpu pointed at the p2pool, just wanted to post that the wallet is still unstable, falls out of synch 2-3 times a day, last 5 days

pulling in 3 mil a day w/88 khps anyway   

I'm throwing my 1 MH/S at it to see if it unsticks. It might take a few hours to find the next block.

If things stick again let me know and I'll fire my 2.8Mh at it.

It's been stuck for at least 10 hours now n00b. Can you throw the kitchen sync at it?

[soundposition]

Bittorent Sync looks cool! A directory could be cool as well.

I started looking into the terms and conditions. I've been doing that ever since I saw sneaky stuff thrown into them.
I found you have to be careful if you are going to put your creative intellectual property online.

For example:

The "We can censor you" clause.

"BitTorrent, in its sole discretion, may (but has no obligation to) monitor or review the Services and Materials at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, BitTorrent shall have the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any of Your Content for any reason (or no reason), including if it violates the Terms or any Law.

Or the "We can make money off you, but we don't have to pay you" clause.

"You agree that BitTorrent may derive revenue and/or other remuneration from Your Content that you Make Available via the Services without payment to you. "

"Free for all"??

"Your Data Belongs to You"??

That's pretty darn funny.

Nah.. I'm going to use a better alternative.

[jwinterm]

Bittorent Sync looks cool! A directory could be cool as well.


I started looking into the terms and conditions. I've been doing that ever since I saw sneaky stuff thrown into them.
I found you have to be careful if you are going to put your creative intellectual property online.

For example:

The "We can censor you" clause.

"BitTorrent, in its sole discretion, may (but has no obligation to) monitor or review the Services and Materials at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, BitTorrent shall have the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any of Your Content for any reason (or no reason), including if it violates the Terms or any Law.

Or the "We can make money off you, but we don't have to pay you" clause.

"You agree that BitTorrent may derive revenue and/or other remuneration from Your Content that you Make Available via the Services without payment to you. "

"Free for all"??

Nah.. I'm going to use a better alternative.

can we just seed torrents?

[soundposition]

Yeah we can seed torrents. It always worked in the past.

[soundposition]

I think what we want maybe is a decentralized version control system.

Git.

Version Controlling your music with Git
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1opT_BwWTPqAFoGJQ2oqWGz2-oUOKfNQ9emMhZ2fFiu0/edit?hl=en

[soundposition]

Okay, it's unstuck again!

[soundposition]

This is basically what I had in mind.. True decentralized open source P2P music (or whatever) collaborations:

http://gitchain.org/

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/612530753/gitchain

This is totally the living, breathing Jukebox of the future.

You can quote me on that.

[simondlr]

Awesome discussions!

I'll try and get to that draft today, and hopefully get it up tomorrow for perusal.

[simondlr]

Okay.

So the gist if very similar to what I originally posted. I really dig the discussions about tying in music into the blockchain. But we first have to fix the coin as it is currently, and then build from there. So the time-frame can't be a year from now.

Fork from Bitcoin. Bitcoin is by far the best codebase to work from. Improvements are usually easy to add in as well.
Add in Vericoin's network-dependant proof-of-stake. I was thinking about the coin-age cap again... This is a neat idea in order to encourage some kind of spending (and not just holding forever). But, the problem with this is, it can influence the staking time of the blocks. If not a lot of people are staking, you want coin-age to be infinite so that it eventually solves the blocks and keeps it going. So, for now, I'm partial to keeping coin-age cap out.

Again. There will be 4M coins. 2M for the BURN pool and 2M for mining. From launch, 4 months will be given to burn the coins. The process will be described at a later point. But essentially, the way I see it: you have to send FUNK1 to a specific address (FBurnAddressxxx or something similar), and then sign an input with the transaction to prove you owned it. The amount will then be converted at the exchange rate determined (FUNK1 supply at determined block: 2M), and I will send you the new coins. After the 4 months is done, I will either (depending on the community) use the rest of the burn pool for bounties (an artist pool for example), or destroy it. I'm partial to turning it into an artist pool: distributing it evenly across contributors at that point. This means that people won't put garbage up or under pseudonyms, since it might be the case that no-one receives any of the 2M (although I doubt ALL the coins will be exchanged).

The PoW CPU algo will most likely be a completely new algo if n00bnoxious can get it tested properly.

This whole process will happen in the following stages:

1) Develop the new coin until it is ready.
> Port Bitcoin over.
> Add in Vericoin PoS.
> Add in new CPU algo for PoW phase.
2) Then announce a block at which old FUNK won't be valid anymore (a week from the announcement probably).
3) At that point also then announce when new FUNK will be launched.
4) Launch new coin with PoW phase and burning process starts.
5) After 4 weeks, the PoW stage is done for, switching to PoS.
6) After 4 months the burning process will have ended.

Questions:
- Should we cap the coin-age? If it is capped, then spending is more encouraged. However, this also means that block times might become irregular if not a lot people are staking.
- Is the ratio of 2M Burn pool to 2M new PoW coins fine?
- Is the time for burning at 4 months too long or too short?
- At the end of the burning process, should the rest of the coins that have not been claimed be used for an artist distribution pool?
- Is PoS interest capped at 3% okay?
- Is 4 weeks a decent time for the PoW phase? As n00bnoxious stated: it's a decent time, and it is short enough so that optimized software can't be written for the CPU algo. Resulting in hopefully fairer distribution.

From my side. Considering I'm maintaining & facilitating the process. I promise not to use the burn pool for my own gain. As you can see from reputation (having launched FUNK with no pre-mine and my active contribution to the cryptocurrency space), it's important for me to uphold it. This means I won't sell the burn pool on an exchange. And I won't use the burn pool towards any staking (I will keep it in a separate wallet).

If you are fine with the process and don't have anything to add, just give a vote of approval.

I'm a bit strapped for time these days, but I'll try my best to get to this as soon as I can (visiting my sister next week). n00bnoxious will most likely be helping with development (I hope so. ).

EDIT:

If we have a conclusion, I'm going to put this all in a PDF and make it official. I'm not calling it a "whitepaper" as altcoins like to do. I was in academics for several years, and calling all these documents "whitepapers" is a joke. It will simply be a "project plan".

[soundposition]

I've been mining FUNK hardcore non-stop to keep the old blockchain going while heaping huge piles of FUNK to burn. I found this interesting article while perusing the Lets Talk Bitcoin! comments. It's interesting because it's talking about 'burning' and how this is the next step for the future of BTC etc..

http://www.minyanville.com/business-news/editors-pick/articles/The-People-Who-Burn-Bitcoins-bitcoin/4/16/2014/id/54627

It looks like we're still way on the cutting edge here. I have to give you a big upvote Simon for your consolidation of the ideas. I can't really speak in regards to the fine details, as n00bnoxious is much more experienced with those parameters.

One thing though, I thought a 'burn' process made the coins un-spendable. If that's the case why would there be any concern that you would sell the 'burn pool' on an exchange?

EDIT: I'm going to defer to n00bnoxious on the specifics. Here are my thoughts though.

- Should we cap the coin-age? If it is capped, then spending is more encouraged. However, this also means that block times might become irregular if not a lot people are staking.

I think for now no we shouldn't cap the coin age.  Can we always cap it later if we need to?

- Is the ratio of 2M Burn pool to 2M new PoW coins fine?

Not sure about this, but if I understand this correctly for every 4M coins, half of it goes to be burned, and the other goes to an 'artist pool' wallet that you distribute initially to contributors evenly?

- Is the time for burning at 4 months too long or too short?

No. That sounds like a good amount of time for anyone involved to burn their old FUNK.

- At the end of the burning
 process, should the rest of the coins that have not been claimed be used for an artist distribution pool?

You're speaking of the coins that haven't been mined after the burning is completed? Sure. Why not have an artist distribution pool?

- Is PoS interest capped at 3% okay?

I don't really know. n00bnoxious?

- Is 4 weeks a decent time for the PoW phase? As n00bnoxious stated: it's a decent time, and it is short enough so that optimized software can't be written for the CPU algo. Resulting in hopefully fairer distribution.

I think so. Unless Chris Buchner etc. can cook up an optimized mining software in 4 weeks. I'd enjoy seeing that fast challenge.

[jwinterm]

Okay.

So the gist if very similar to what I originally posted. I really dig the discussions about tying in music into the blockchain. But we first have to fix the coin as it is currently, and then build from there. So the time-frame can't be a year from now.

Fork from Bitcoin. Bitcoin is by far the best codebase to work from. Improvements are usually easy to add in as well.
Add in Vericoin's network-dependant proof-of-stake. I was thinking about the coin-age cap again... This is a neat idea in order to encourage some kind of spending (and not just holding forever). But, the problem with this is, it can influence the staking time of the blocks. If not a lot of people are staking, you want coin-age to be infinite so that it eventually solves the blocks and keeps it going. So, for now, I'm partial to keeping coin-age cap out.

Again. There will be 4M coins. 2M for the BURN pool and 2M for mining. From launch, 4 months will be given to burn the coins. The process will be described at a later point. But essentially, the way I see it: you have to send FUNK1 to a specific address (FBurnAddressxxx or something similar), and then sign an input with the transaction to prove you owned it. The amount will then be converted at the exchange rate determined (FUNK1 supply at determined block: 2M), and I will send you the new coins. After the 4 months is done, I will either (depending on the community) use the rest of the burn pool for bounties (an artist pool for example), or destroy it. I'm partial to turning it into an artist pool: distributing it evenly across contributors at that point. This means that people won't put garbage up or under pseudonyms, since it might be the case that no-one receives any of the 2M (although I doubt ALL the coins will be exchanged).

The PoW CPU algo will most likely be a completely new algo if n00bnoxious can get it tested properly.

This whole process will happen in the following stages:

1) Develop the new coin until it is ready.
> Port Bitcoin over.
> Add in Vericoin PoS.
> Add in new CPU algo for PoW phase.
2) Then announce a block at which old FUNK won't be valid anymore (a week from the announcement probably).
3) At that point also then announce when new FUNK will be launched.
4) Launch new coin with PoW phase and burning process starts.
5) After 4 weeks, the PoW stage is done for, switching to PoS.
6) After 4 months the burning process will have ended.

Questions:
- Should we cap the coin-age? If it is capped, then spending is more encouraged. However, this also means that block times might become irregular if not a lot people are staking.
- Is the ratio of 2M Burn pool to 2M new PoW coins fine?
- Is the time for burning at 4 months too long or too short?
- At the end of the burning process, should the rest of the coins that have not been claimed be used for an artist distribution pool?
- Is PoS interest capped at 3% okay?
- Is 4 weeks a decent time for the PoW phase? As n00bnoxious stated: it's a decent time, and it is short enough so that optimized software can't be written for the CPU algo. Resulting in hopefully fairer distribution.

From my side. Considering I'm maintaining & facilitating the process. I promise not to use the burn pool for my own gain. As you can see from reputation (having launched FUNK with no pre-mine and my active contribution to the cryptocurrency space), it's important for me to uphold it. This means I won't sell the burn pool on an exchange. And I won't use the burn pool towards any staking (I will keep it in a separate wallet).

If you are fine with the process and don't have anything to add, just give a vote of approval.

I'm a bit strapped for time these days, but I'll try my best to get to this as soon as I can (visiting my sister next week). n00bnoxious will most likely be helping with development (I hope so. ).

EDIT:

If we have a conclusion, I'm going to put this all in a PDF and make it official. I'm not calling it a "whitepaper" as altcoins like to do. I was in academics for several years, and calling all these documents "whitepapers" is a joke. It will simply be a "project plan".

Sounds good Simon. One thought (I really have no idea how difficult it would be) is that maybe rather than capping the coin age going directly from staking to not staking, you could implement some way where you get like progressively lower and lower interest the longer your coins have been staking. So it could start at 3%, then after one or two months it would drop to 2.9%, then after some more time 2.8%, and so on. Not sure if this has been tried in any other coins already, but this way you can encourage spending, but coins could just sit in a wallet and never stop staking if you implement a formula where interest % is reduced over time but never reaches zero.

[soundposition]

I edited my previous post with more elaborations on the answers to Simon's questions. If you want to take a look.

[simondlr]

I've been mining FUNK hardcore non-stop to keep the old blockchain going while heaping huge piles of FUNK to burn. I found this interesting article while perusing the Lets Talk Bitcoin! comments. It's interesting because it's talking about 'burning' and how this is the next step for the future of BTC etc..

Thanks for keeping the chain going!

One thing though, I thought a 'burn' process made the coins un-spendable. If that's the case why would there be any concern that you would sell the 'burn pool' on an exchange?

The burning process is manual, it's not automatic (actually have to see how XCP & Mastercoin did their burning). Currently, I would own the burn pool and distribute it accordingly. So during the 4 months I would own the coins, so I *could* theoretically just dump the coins. Like a pre-mine, but it's not.

Actually. Let me check how Mastercoin/XCP did their burning. Perhaps it could be done automatically. Although not sure how. If you burn on the same blockchain (like XCP/Mastercoin) it seems more likely that it can be done automatically.

I think for now no we shouldn't cap the coin age.  Can we always cap it later if we need to?

Yep. But I think it will be hard-fork to fix. Different consensus model.

Not sure about this, but if I understand this correctly for every 4M coins, half of it goes to be burned, and the other goes to an 'artist pool' wallet that you distribute initially to contributors evenly?

Not entirely. There will only be 4M in the initial + PoW phase. 2M of those will be distributed to old FUNK users (through burning) and additional new coins will be distributed through PoW. A 50/50 split is thus the question. ie FUNK1/FUNK2 split is 50/50. In other words, of the old FUNK, all those coins will represent 50% of the new coin stock if all of it is burned. The consideration to make here is: you don't want 100% either way. You want to reward the people like us who've stuck around, but you want some new blood and thus release those new coins through PoW stage.

Thanks for the comments.

@jwinterm

The exponential decay idea is cool. Afaik that's what Reddcoin's proof-of-stake velocity will do. It still increases over time, but it decays faster. In other words, the first 30 days of coin-age is 1:1, but then the next 30 days will take 60 days to accumulate and so forth. Definitely worth looking into. So coin-age will be infinite, but at some stage it just accrues it at a much slower rate (not 1:1).

[groggin]

  

@jwinterm

The exponential decay idea is cool. Afaik that's what Reddcoin's proof-of-stake velocity will do. It still increases over time, but it decays faster. In other words, the first 30 days of coin-age is 1:1, but then the next 30 days will take 60 days to accumulate and so forth. Definitely worth looking into. So coin-age will be infinite, but at some stage it just accrues it at a much slower rate (not 1:1).

  again ref: hobonickles -
    staking is dependent on network diff! if diff is up, PoS return becomes less than the nominal 100%
    and coin control is gr8