[BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012

[cryptrol]

Smooth, nice try, but you didn't quote ullo's answer:

There's no need spreading fud in the roadmap thread.

The point you're making is a good take on the CryptoNote technology itself. I've forwarded MRL-0001 to the team to let them do the review of Monero's research. I'll provide you with our conclusions.

To fellow bytecoiners: can we have a separate board maybe?

I hadn't seen his post yet. Good point, though. It is relevant that the Bytecoin scammers consider any critical information or discussion of the fraudulent premine to be "FUD"

It's a shame Bytecoin was released in this way, there is obviously a nice amount of effort and knowledge behind it. But being that shady ruins the whole experience, and those unknown txout's in their hands it's a valid concern.

[smooth]

Smooth, nice try, but you didn't quote ullo's answer:

There's no need spreading fud in the roadmap thread.

The point you're making is a good take on the CryptoNote technology itself. I've forwarded MRL-0001 to the team to let them do the review of Monero's research. I'll provide you with our conclusions.

To fellow bytecoiners: can we have a separate board maybe?

I hadn't seen his post yet. Good point, though. It is relevant that the Bytecoin scammers consider any critical information or discussion of the fraudulent premine to be "FUD"

It's a shame Bytecoin was released in this way, there is obviously a nice amount of effort and knowledge behind it. But being that shady ruins the whole experience, and those unknown txout's in their hands it's a valid concern.

Yes I agree with you. I mined and supported Bytecoin at the beginning when it looked like some very interesting and revolutionary technology. It was only later that I and others realized it was being promoted fraudulently and I moved on from it. If the launch and the team behind it had not turned out to be a scam I never would have left.

[the2ndCat]

Smooth, nice try, but you didn't quote ullo's answer:

There's no need spreading fud in the roadmap thread.

The point you're making is a good take on the CryptoNote technology itself. I've forwarded MRL-0001 to the team to let them do the review of Monero's research. I'll provide you with our conclusions.

To fellow bytecoiners: can we have a separate board maybe?

I hadn't seen his post yet. Good point, though. It is relevant that the Bytecoin scammers consider any critical information or discussion of the fraudulent premine to be "FUD"

It's a shame Bytecoin was released in this way, there is obviously a nice amount of effort and knowledge behind it. But being that shady ruins the whole experience, and those unknown txout's in their hands it's a valid concern.

Yes I agree with you. I mined and supported Bytecoin at the beginning when it looked like some very interesting and revolutionary technology. It was only later that I and others realized it was being promoted fraudulently and I moved on from it. If the launch and the team behind it had not turned out to be a scam I never would have left.

why are you so mad about them? bytecoin devs don't look like a crazy people. how stupid should they be to kill the coin by flooding the market with all the coins you claim they have after they put a lot of effort to it. I read their blog and messages and an interview. they don't sound like dumb people. What will they do with 82%?!

[smooth]

Smooth, nice try, but you didn't quote ullo's answer:

There's no need spreading fud in the roadmap thread.

The point you're making is a good take on the CryptoNote technology itself. I've forwarded MRL-0001 to the team to let them do the review of Monero's research. I'll provide you with our conclusions.

To fellow bytecoiners: can we have a separate board maybe?

I hadn't seen his post yet. Good point, though. It is relevant that the Bytecoin scammers consider any critical information or discussion of the fraudulent premine to be "FUD"

It's a shame Bytecoin was released in this way, there is obviously a nice amount of effort and knowledge behind it. But being that shady ruins the whole experience, and those unknown txout's in their hands it's a valid concern.

Yes I agree with you. I mined and supported Bytecoin at the beginning when it looked like some very interesting and revolutionary technology. It was only later that I and others realized it was being promoted fraudulently and I moved on from it. If the launch and the team behind it had not turned out to be a scam I never would have left.

why are you so mad about them?

Not mad, just reporting the facts, and keeping them in plain sight because:

Yeah, I've noticed the Bytecoin scam team is trying mount a bit of a comeback and lure in unsuspecting people who are probably not familiar with what actually happened.

Definitely a good time to get this thread out again to hopefully save some people money.

bytecoin devs don't look like a crazy people. how stupid should they be to kill the coin by flooding the market with all the coins you claim they have after they put a lot of effort to it. I read their blog and messages and an interview. they don't sound like dumb people. What will they do with 82%?!

They could burn the coins. They could even do an ICO as illodin suggested, although in reality crypto ICOs are a fatally flawed model because there is nothing to prevent the developer from buying their own coins (which leaves them with both the coins and the BTC used to buy them). But to do either would require they admit the entire story about two years on the deep web (since 2012) and thousands of people mining and using it to be a year-long fraud (which it is, but they won't admit it).

As for a separate board, that will never happen either (I mean, not as a substitute) because the main goal of the people behind this project is defraud money from crypto investors, who for the most part are here. Talking to themselves and a very few honest but deluded supporters on a walled-garden board won't accomplish that.

[Rias]

That is quite an insulting statement to both Bytecoin devs and the community members.

Do you mind me explaining you why I disagree?

When you see Bytecoin for the first time, you notice something distinctive about it among a thousand of various coins. There are only a handful of such projects on the market. It breathes change, it gives market radically new things to experiment with. There are only a handful of other projects that are this huge in technology terms. It was the first to implement anonymity in cryptocurrencies. That was a hard one to crack for the crypto, wasn't it? It gave birth to a diverse multi-million market, it allowed new projects to emerge, new strong communities to gather, it breathed in new ideas. That's what makes Bytecoin truly inspiring.

Bytecoin roadmap may potentially be very huge. Colored coins, digital assets, scripts. Currently there is not to many projects daring to implement such features. When I think about the potential system that Bytecoin can become, I do wish them luck. I like thinking that we almost live in future. I support projects like Bytecoin because they advance it.

And as far as I can judge from the latest release and post on Bytecoin engine, they Bytecoin devs know what they're doing.

As for your claims about the scam, you should be telling the other side of the story too. Certain people were too fast too lynch both Bytecoin and CryptoNote while there were evidence that this is incorrect [1] [2].

In any case, you may not trust, but you may wait and see.

[onemorexmr]

That is quite an insulting statement to both Bytecoin devs and the community members.

Do you mind me explaining you why I disagree?

When you see Bytecoin for the first time, you notice something distinctive about it among a thousand of various coins. There are only a handful of such projects on the market. It breathes change, it gives market radically new things to experiment with. There are only a handful of other projects that are this huge in technology terms. It was the first to implement anonymity in cryptocurrencies. That was a hard one to crack for the crypto, wasn't it? It gave birth to a diverse multi-million market, it allowed new projects to emerge, new strong communities to gather, it breathed in new ideas. That's what makes Bytecoin truly inspiring.

Bytecoin roadmap may potentially be very huge. Colored coins, digital assets, scripts. Currently there is not to many projects daring to implement such features. When I think about the potential system that Bytecoin can become, I do wish them luck. I like thinking that we almost live in future. I support projects like Bytecoin because they advance it.

And as far as I can judge from the latest release and post on Bytecoin engine, they Bytecoin devs know what they're doing.

As for your claims about the scam, you should be telling the other side of the story too. Certain people were too fast too lynch both Bytecoin and CryptoNote while there were evidence that this is incorrect [1] [2].

In any case, you may not trust, but you may wait and see.

its an obvious scam!
if the team at least would have been honest at start we could talk about it. but taking an 80% premine and try to tell us its from 2012? stupid liars!

[Rias]

I don't blame you for being harsh, but could you possibly consider re-reading what I've written above. You may not believe me now, this doesn't change a thing.
Again, I'm telling you, the idea that Bytecoin did not exist in 2012 is absurd and meaningless. Now back to the pillar of your argumentation ([[1] and [2] are clickable and you may read on):

Certain people were too fast too lynch both Bytecoin and CryptoNote while there were evidence that this is incorrect [1] [2].

[ArticMine]

I don't blame you for being harsh, but could you possibly consider re-reading what I've written above. You may not believe me now, this doesn't change a thing.
Again, I'm telling you, the idea that Bytecoin did not exist in 2012 is absurd and meaningless. Now back to the pillar of your argumentation ([[1] and [2] are clickable and you may read on):

Certain people were too fast too lynch both Bytecoin and CryptoNote while there were evidence that this is incorrect [1] [2].

I would suggest reading the whole thread where both sides are presented and then form one's own opinion.https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0;all. Nevertheless even if we were to grant that this was a ninjamine rather than a premine disguised as a ninjamine one still has to deal with an extremely poor coin distribution that places over 80% of the coins in the hands or one person or a very small group of people. This leads to the attack against anonymity / privacy / fungibility by the those holding the premine / ninjamine.

[coinits]

Bytecoin is a shitcoin and a scam. Just as bad as PayCoin. Was Homero part of the Bytecoin scam?

[ArticMine]

Bytecoin is a shitcoin and a scam. Just as bad as PayCoin. Was Homero part of the Bytecoin scam?

Monero was not part of this. Please read the thread I posted above it covers these issues.

[smooth]

As for your claims about the scam, you should be telling the other side of the story too. Certain people were too fast too lynch both Bytecoin and CryptoNote while there were evidence that this is incorrect [1] [2].

That 'evidence' is bullshit. I was around and I verified the original claims of rethink-your-strategy (as did others) before content on web sites started getting changed to support "alternative explanations" (euphemism for obfuscation, denial, and doubling down on the fraud). The people making claims against the original evidence are either obvious shill accounts or very likely (if not proven; I'm not sure) purchased accounts. There are certainly proven purchased accounts associated with the fraud, so I expect that in any case.

I agree with you that the crypto work on Bytecoin was very good. I'm less impressed with the recent coding work, as the quality has been rather poor (for example, the wallet still crashes under some easy-to-reproduce conditions).

But in any case if the developers of Bytecoin have more of an interest in the technology (and in making a difference to humanity as claimed by the quasi-spirtual stuff they disseminate) than in scamming money from crypto investors with a fraudulent premine and ongoing effort to cover-up, they should either redirect their talents to contributing to one of the few truly open source and transparent cryptocurrency projects such as Bitcoin or Monero, or if they must, they can start their own, which means a new project with a transparent launch, open participation (i.e. not committing tens of thousands of lines to github at one time with no process visibilty to or participation by outsiders), etc.

If they fail to do this their motives are clear.

[TheKoziTwo]

Something feels not right about this coin...

[Rias]

That 'evidence' is bullshit. I was around and I verified the original claims of rethink-your-strategy (as did others) before content on web sites started getting changed to support "alternative explanations" (euphemism for obfuscation, denial, and doubling down on the fraud).

Anyone should read the thread and arrive at his own conclusion. While there was problem with CN whitepaper, the version on Bytecoin website was ok. You did not check it sticking to the text of OP only. That's the story, not what you're trying to tell here.

Also, you've downvoted my karma just for disagreeing with you and stating my opinion. That is the evidence of that you're totally biased. Is this tiny piece of text the reason you did it? It's good for my writing talent to invoke such feelings lol.

That is quite an insulting statement to both Bytecoin devs and the community members.

Do you mind me explaining you why I disagree?

When you see Bytecoin for the first time, you notice something distinctive about it among a thousand of various coins. There are only a handful of such projects on the market. It breathes change, it gives market radically new things to experiment with. There are only a handful of other projects that are this huge in technology terms. It was the first to implement anonymity in cryptocurrencies. That was a hard one to crack for the crypto, wasn't it? It gave birth to a diverse multi-million market, it allowed new projects to emerge, new strong communities to gather, it breathed in new ideas. That's what makes Bytecoin truly inspiring.

Bytecoin roadmap may potentially be very huge. Colored coins, digital assets, scripts. Currently there is not to many projects daring to implement such features. When I think about the potential system that Bytecoin can become, I do wish them luck. I like thinking that we almost live in future. I support projects like Bytecoin because they advance it.

And as far as I can judge from the latest release and post on Bytecoin engine, they Bytecoin devs know what they're doing.

As for your claims about the scam, you should be telling the other side of the story too. Certain people were too fast too lynch both Bytecoin and CryptoNote while there were evidence that this is incorrect [1] [2].

In any case, you may not trust, but you may wait and see.

[illodin]

bytecoin devs don't look like a crazy people. how stupid should they be to kill the coin by flooding the market with all the coins you claim they have after they put a lot of effort to it. I read their blog and messages and an interview. they don't sound like dumb people. What will they do with 82%?!

Maybe it's an NSA honeypot to trap dark market users and terrorists. They want to hold on to their 82% so they can deanonymize everyone who thinks they are actually anonymous.

[Oscilson]

bytecoin devs don't look like a crazy people. how stupid should they be to kill the coin by flooding the market with all the coins you claim they have after they put a lot of effort to it. I read their blog and messages and an interview. they don't sound like dumb people. What will they do with 82%?!

Maybe it's an NSA honeypot to trap dark market users and terrorists. They want to hold on to their 82% so they can deanonymize everyone who thinks they are actually anonymous.

Are you sure those 82% coins can be used to trace any other transactions?

[Rytir_fik]

  now it it 82%? If I remember well it was 80% half a year ago.... What it will be in next half year? .... 85%?
It is not necessary to write here the same and same messages each half year when BCN DEVs make some progress and the rest of coins are again step behind.  

Can I have the negative Trust as WELL? 

[cryptrol]

bytecoin devs don't look like a crazy people. how stupid should they be to kill the coin by flooding the market with all the coins you claim they have after they put a lot of effort to it. I read their blog and messages and an interview. they don't sound like dumb people. What will they do with 82%?!

Maybe it's an NSA honeypot to trap dark market users and terrorists. They want to hold on to their 82% so they can deanonymize everyone who thinks they are actually anonymous.

It's a good plan.

bytecoin devs don't look like a crazy people. how stupid should they be to kill the coin by flooding the market with all the coins you claim they have after they put a lot of effort to it. I read their blog and messages and an interview. they don't sound like dumb people. What will they do with 82%?!

Maybe it's an NSA honeypot to trap dark market users and terrorists. They want to hold on to their 82% so they can deanonymize everyone who thinks they are actually anonymous.

Are you sure those 82% coins can be used to trace any other transactions?

Mathematically speaking, It's possible with a high probability to do it. So, yes, it's possible.

This applies to any cryptonote coin and since it's impossible to know who owns coins and in what amount, this seems to be a major drawback for all the cryptonote coins.

And let me say that Monero, Dashcoin, and the like are also affected. Yes, you can say that Monero has a more fair distribution but in the end you can't demonstrate the distribution of these coins so you end up with the same trust problem.

Let's keep calm and learn more about it.

[coinits]

Bytecoin is a shitcoin and a scam. Just as bad as PayCoin. Was Homero part of the Bytecoin scam?

Monero was not part of this. Please read the thread I posted above it covers these issues.

I know it wasn't. Monero happens to be backed by trust.

[smooth]

That 'evidence' is bullshit. I was around and I verified the original claims of rethink-your-strategy (as did others) before content on web sites started getting changed to support "alternative explanations" (euphemism for obfuscation, denial, and doubling down on the fraud).

Anyone should read the thread and arrive at his own conclusion. While there was problem with CN whitepaper, the version on Bytecoin website was ok. You did not check it sticking to the text of OP only. That's the story, not what you're trying to tell here.

What I'm saying is that when the original report by rethink-your-strategy was posted, I looked at everything because as you well know the whole BCN "mystery" was something that interested me at the time. I downloaded the white papers, looked at their dates, signatures, etc., checked web source for the CSS reset, etc. Everything checked out just as it was reported. Then, conveniently, things started to change. New versions of the white paper were "found" on the deep web (much like BCN was supposedly "found" don't you think?). Web sites were edited to remove the CSS reset code, etc. Reports were being posted to refute or question the original research by accounts that were very clearly shill accounts (act now) or very likely purchased (or possibly just affiliated with BCN) hero accounts (bitcoinbear).

Unfortunately, it is no longer possible for people to "read the thread and arrive at his own conclusion", at least not with the same degree of confidence one could at the time, because once that thread was created, evidence started being altered and hidden. If you weren't around at the time yourself and able to check things, you can only rely on people who were, and I'm certainly not the only one who was there and saw what happened. In fact you were too.

EDIT: after discussion in PM I removed the negative trust rating on Rias. I don't know whether he is actively supporting the scam or just confused/open-minded. Since I don't know I won't judge.

[nachoig]

This is fucking annoying. If some random coin is a scam, do you really expect the scammers admitting this? Of course not. Paycoin is a scam and Josh Garza will never admit this, even if he'll go to jail. There a lot of scams over this forum, but how many of these admited they are just looking to scam?

The same goes to Bytecoin. The original devs will never admit they were just looking for a way to doing easy profit with their premine policy, cripped miner and the bullshit story about being hideen about 2 years on the darknet. So, why wasting time discussing this with people behind sockpuppet accounts? Do you really expect a confession? Or what?

OK, you can call this a scam. But instead of discussing the obvious, you can turn this into a useful scam. The technology behind it is unquestionably great and can provide a proof-of-concept. So, fork and do it better. And don't worry with people buying this coin. If they are buying a clearly scam coin, let them do this. Good luck for them, maybe they can do some profit, although improbable. Or maybe they deserve to be scammed. The history behind this is very well-documented here ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0 ), so we don't need to go to every topic about this coin to do the same discurse, as anti-scam paladines.