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Author Topic: [BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012  (Read 1035699 times)
child_harold
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July 26, 2015, 09:42:24 PM
 #4621

Im not saying large amounts of bytecoin have been reserved to prevent de-anonymization, merely pointing out it is a method (maybe the only one) to prevent such an attack.

From a security perspective this argument is nonsense. All the premine does is replace a potential vulnerability with a guaranteed vulnerability. Not only to the Bytecoin promoters themselves, but to anyone who could compromise them or their stash.


If you allow govs and 3 letter orgs to buy/mine your coins then vulnerability is guaranteed.

What you're saying is that the bytecoin devs and miners would de-anon their own crypto? And you also say they're scammers? They cannot not BOTH dump and de-anon. It would have to be one or the other. Besides you're describing the collusion of several parties, a collusion or coercion which could occur in Monero. Given the public identities of Monero devs and community members Id have thought coercion would be much easier.

You will also notice the many many transactions on the network. Any "stashes" would be well dispersed (presumably).

What I say is true though. Only by making a certain portion of the currency "untouchable" can you guarantee against the vulnerability. This you cannot deny.

Having said all that the distro in BCN improves with time.

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child_harold
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July 26, 2015, 09:57:51 PM
Last edit: July 28, 2015, 10:50:29 AM by child_harold
 #4622

Fuck it… past 20 sats…why the hell not? Cool

Hocus Pocus Focus Anonymous!
https://youtu.be/4Zkir2MMhIM?t=6m38s

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July 26, 2015, 10:07:19 PM
 #4623

What I say is true though. Only by making a certain portion of the currency "untouchable" can you guarantee against the vulnerability. This you cannot deny.

No it's totally wrong as I explained a few weeks ago. If people do start using BCN, they won't mix with anything in the first 80% because they know it is compromised by design. Therefore other attackers have an easier job getting a disproportionately large share of the remaining 80%

In reality the most secure cryptonote coin is going to be the most used and most widely used. The repetitional damage of being a (likely/apparent/probable) premine scam will prevent BCN from ever being that.

There is simply no reason not to prefer another cyrptonote with the same (or in some cases better) technology and no premine. Pick whichever one you like.



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July 26, 2015, 10:24:17 PM
 #4624

What I say is true though. Only by making a certain portion of the currency "untouchable" can you guarantee against the vulnerability. This you cannot deny.

No it's totally wrong as I explained a few weeks ago. If people do start using BCN, they won't mix with anything in the first 80% because they know it is compromised by design. Therefore other attackers have an easier job getting a disproportionately large share of the remaining 80%

In reality the most secure cryptonote coin is going to be the most used and most widely used. The repetitional damage of being a (likely/apparent/probable) premine scam will prevent BCN from ever being that.

There is simply no reason not to prefer another cyrptonote with the same (or in some cases better) technology and no premine. Pick whichever one you like.


Im assuming the devs and early miners will not conspire to de-anon the tx's, mostly since they created this open-souce crypto-currency in the first place (which you then forked). In the same way I assume that the Monero devs, reptila and the 10 largest XMR holders dont conspire (or are coerced) to do the same thing. If you use bytecoin you'll mix with all the coins.

As I explain I prefer BCN becuae they're racing ahead with development and know the code and the CN crypto better than anybody else in here.

Once again you contradict yourself by calling them "scammers". The devs cannot very well dump their coins and de-anon. Scammers would run away with the money which these guys havent. Perhaps you think theyre gov agents who build a crypto only to de-anon it? a honey-pot? No need to answer smooth - it's a rhetorical question.

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July 26, 2015, 10:41:12 PM
Last edit: July 26, 2015, 11:15:25 PM by smooth
 #4625

What I say is true though. Only by making a certain portion of the currency "untouchable" can you guarantee against the vulnerability. This you cannot deny.

No it's totally wrong as I explained a few weeks ago. If people do start using BCN, they won't mix with anything in the first 80% because they know it is compromised by design. Therefore other attackers have an easier job getting a disproportionately large share of the remaining 80%

In reality the most secure cryptonote coin is going to be the most used and most widely used. The repetitional damage of being a (likely/apparent/probable) premine scam will prevent BCN from ever being that.

There is simply no reason not to prefer another cyrptonote with the same (or in some cases better) technology and no premine. Pick whichever one you like.


Im assuming the devs and early miners will not conspire

For all you know it could be one person. No conspiring necessary.

Quote
to de-anon the tx's, mostly since they created this open-souce crypto-currency in the first place (which you then forked).

And perhaps it is a honey pot. The point being that it makes no sense for someone to simply trust that. Otherwise you might just trust them to run bytecoinpaypal.

You can't simple "assume they won't ... de-anon" and have any kind of valid security model, nor a decentralized system in any meaningful sense. It is a centralized system run by people you know only from a bunch of forum posts. What could possibly go wrong?

Quote
In the same way I assume that the Monero devs, reptila and the 10 largest XMR holders dont conspire (or are coerced) to do the same thing.

Good luck even identifying the 10 largest XMR holders. Its probably not the devs. rpietila is probably one of them, but he's only one. Furthermore, it's probably not the case that the 10 largest holders have anywhere near 80%. rpietila's analysis here gives the top 10 about 20%. Maybe he's off a bit, even so...

Quote
If you use bytecoin you'll mix with all the coins.

I certainly wouldn't. But then it doesn't matter because hardly anyone will ever use it, since there are better cryptonote alternatives without massive (likely/apparent) fraudulent premines.

Quote
As I explain I prefer BCN becuae they're racing ahead with development and know the code and the CN crypto better than anybody else in here.

You aren't qualified to judge that. As I suggested earlier, you should employ the services of someone who actually understands the code. Given an independent review of what has been delivered in this "racing ahead" over the past 18 months, I suspect you would be quite surprised.

Go ahead though, put all your money in Bytecoin please. See how that works out for you.

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July 27, 2015, 12:38:43 AM
 #4626

For all you know it could be one person. No conspiring necessary.

Without a whistleblower that'd mean he'd written cryptonote, launched bytecoin and its clones and the rest. What a dude. (ps unlikely)


…run by people you know only from a bunch of forum posts. What could possibly go wrong?

that's about sums up my experience of crypto


Good luck even identifying the 10 largest XMR holders.

Not me. Sufficed to say mining XMR (or BCN) is substantially less anonymous than sending it.


You aren't qualified to judge that.

No Im not. Are you?


Go ahead though, put all your money in Bytecoin please. See how that works out for you.

ALL my money? I wouldnt put all my money in any one crypto. How's it working out? Well I bought mostly between 10 -14 sats and its now around 20 so OK thanks.

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July 27, 2015, 12:43:23 AM
 #4627

For all you know it could be one person. No conspiring necessary.

Without a whistleblower that'd mean he'd written cryptonote, launched bytecoin and its clones and the rest. What a dude. (ps unlikely)

You are assuming that the person in charge is writing the actual code, white papers, web design, astroturfing, etc. It is entirely possible some or all of those people were/are hired.

You know developers and others are approached and paid to develop coins by "investors", right? (I'm not even necessarily talking about BCN here, just coins in general, but there is no reason to rule it out in the case of BCN.)

Quote
Quote
…run by people you know only from a bunch of forum posts. What could possibly go wrong?

that's about sums up my experience of crypto

That's just the point. You're completely missing the point.
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July 27, 2015, 12:59:32 AM
 #4628

For all you know it could be one person. No conspiring necessary.

Without a whistleblower that'd mean he'd written cryptonote, launched bytecoin and its clones and the rest. What a dude. (ps unlikely)

You are assuming that the person in charge is writing the actual code, white papers, web design, astroturfing, etc. It is entirely possible some or all of those people were/are hired.

you're reaching



That's just the point. You're completely missing the point.

Your point is that I do not need to trust you. Perhaps. But can I trust you to competently develop a code you didnt create? I dunno. Can I trust the original devs? Why not. Can I trust that anybody who open-sources this kind of code is not a scammer wishing to either rip-off or arrest all those he comes into contact with? I think so. Can I trust XMR wont be mined and bought into heavily by govs. No.



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July 27, 2015, 01:09:04 AM
Last edit: July 27, 2015, 01:23:45 AM by smooth
 #4629

For all you know it could be one person. No conspiring necessary.

Without a whistleblower that'd mean he'd written cryptonote, launched bytecoin and its clones and the rest. What a dude. (ps unlikely)

You are assuming that the person in charge is writing the actual code, white papers, web design, astroturfing, etc. It is entirely possible some or all of those people were/are hired.

you're reaching

Which is to say you don't think its entirely possible that some or all of the developers, white paper authors, web designers, and astroturfing sock puppet operators were and/or are hired? Interesting.

Quote from: smooth, earlier but snipped
You know developers and others are approached and paid to develop coins by "investors", right? (I'm not even necessarily talking about BCN here, just coins in general, but there is no reason to rule it out in the case of BCN.)

Are you aware of this?

Quote
Your point is that I do not need to trust you.

No that is not my point.

Enjoy the pump though. Trading profits are real, regardless of the larger context (as long as you do sell at a profit).
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July 27, 2015, 01:15:34 AM
 #4630

No that is not my point.

Good to know. Good night.

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July 27, 2015, 04:06:13 AM
 #4631

Is child_harold a BCN troll or an XMR dble agent?

or maybe a BCN triple agent ... god forbid, an XMR quadruple agent!

the more he posts on all this stuff in favor of bytecoin the worse BCN looks, so my hunch is he's actually rooting for XMR (i.e. dble or quadruple agent). Are you getting angry PM's from the bytecoin crew?
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July 27, 2015, 04:25:00 AM
 #4632

Is child_harold a BCN troll or an XMR dble agent?

or maybe a BCN triple agent ... god forbid, an XMR quadruple agent!

the more he posts on all this stuff in favor of bytecoin the worse BCN looks, so my hunch is he's actually rooting for XMR (i.e. dble or quadruple agent). Are you getting angry PM's from the bytecoin crew?

lols, my bet is on monero sextuple agent Cheesy
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July 27, 2015, 03:36:55 PM
Last edit: July 27, 2015, 03:52:07 PM by child_harold
 #4633

Is child_harold a BCN troll or an XMR dble agent?

or maybe a BCN triple agent ... god forbid, an XMR quadruple agent!

the more he posts on all this stuff in favor of bytecoin the worse BCN looks, so my hunch is he's actually rooting for XMR (i.e. dble or quadruple agent). Are you getting angry PM's from the bytecoin crew?

lols, my bet is on monero sextuple agent Cheesy



Im not sure how you arrived at that. I suppose it is inevitable that a person following my line of inquiry might be misunderstood but I think I've made my position pretty clear.

Ever since realizing Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous Ive looked for crypto-currencies that strive for anonymity since this is the true analog to cash.
Darkcoin, Shadow, Monero and many others have all crossed my radar in the past. In fact I'm pretty heavily invested in Shadow (another innovative coin) and have a few Monero. I think any investor would do wisely to hedge their bets.

To ignore Bytecoin is total madness. Their code is truly innovative, has changed crypto for the better, and is being developed rapidly. Cryptonote and bytecoin have changed the landscape of anon coins by offering the most powerful anon crypto to date and we owe them thanks, especially developers who have been inspired by or forked their code.

The cryptonote team and bytecoin team stand in solidaity and I am unswayed by the monero view of the world. I want cutting-edge crypto from the guys who brought us the very first CN currency so Im watching bytecoin. Simple as that.

One does not have to invest in bytecoin to profit from it - just ask monero. Even non-CN coins like Shadow owe much to its innovations.

Whether you believe it's a case of pearls to swine or pearls from swine they are still pearls. I applaud the bytecoin team's innovations and hold some BCN in a show of support for its important achievements past and future.

* child_harold raises a glass.

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July 28, 2015, 02:58:57 AM
 #4634

Amen! Well said child_harold!
child_harold
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July 28, 2015, 10:56:35 AM
 #4635

Fuck it… past 20 sats…why the hell not? Cool

Hocus Pocus Focus Anonymous!
https://youtu.be/4Zkir2MMhIM?t=6m38s

^fixed the link… will try again…

Abracanonymous!

@babybonobo - cheers!

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July 29, 2015, 12:51:37 AM
 #4636


Im not sure how you arrived at that. I suppose it is inevitable that a person following my line of inquiry might be misunderstood but I think I've made my position pretty clear.

Ever since realizing Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous Ive looked for crypto-currencies that strive for anonymity since this is the true analog to cash.
Darkcoin, Shadow, Monero and many others have all crossed my radar in the past. In fact I'm pretty heavily invested in Shadow (another innovative coin) and have a few Monero. I think any investor would do wisely to hedge their bets.

To ignore Bytecoin is total madness. Their code is truly innovative, has changed crypto for the better, and is being developed rapidly. Cryptonote and bytecoin have changed the landscape of anon coins by offering the most powerful anon crypto to date and we owe them thanks, especially developers who have been inspired by or forked their code.

The cryptonote team and bytecoin team stand in solidaity and I am unswayed by the monero view of the world. I want cutting-edge crypto from the guys who brought us the very first CN currency so Im watching bytecoin. Simple as that.

One does not have to invest in bytecoin to profit from it - just ask monero. Even non-CN coins like Shadow owe much to its innovations.

Whether you believe it's a case of pearls to swine or pearls from swine they are still pearls. I applaud the bytecoin team's innovations and hold some BCN in a show of support for its important achievements past and future.


I think a good analogy to the cryptonote/bytecoin/monero scenario is rockets/Nazi Germany/ NASA.

There's no doubt that the Nazi's excelled in rocket technology, and that tech ended up putting Apollo astronauts on the moon, but who in there right mind would wish the Nazi's themselves had continued developing rocket tech in the 50's and 60's. What happened was the great tech and its leading scientist, Wernher Von Braun, moved to the USA to continue development of rockets, and that's sort of what's happening with cryptonote, the tech has been transferred to a community that will develop it better (i.e. not to accomplish a scam and enrich a few dishonest people).

I like rocket tech, but I don't support Nazi germany the original developer

I like cryptonote tech, but I don't support bytecoin and the original scam developers

I'm glad NASA continued developing rockets instead of Nazi germany, and I don't care that NASA used tech they didn't invent themselves

If you separate the tech, the original creator, and the community best suited to developing the tech for mass adoption the choice of which cryptonote coin to buy and support is obvious.

Maybe the actual crypto scientists who invented cryptonote weren't part of the bytecoin 80% premine scam. I can imagine a scenario where the people who created the tech itself defect to monero, in a similar way to Wernher Von Braun moving to america and working for NASA. That's possible!!
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July 29, 2015, 12:55:13 AM
 #4637

and that tech ended up putting Apollo astronauts on the moon

The moon, pfft, the bytecoiners are raising money to go to Mars. Send your coins!

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July 29, 2015, 09:47:51 AM
Last edit: July 29, 2015, 11:51:40 AM by child_harold
 #4638


Im not sure how you arrived at that. I suppose it is inevitable that a person following my line of inquiry might be misunderstood but I think I've made my position pretty clear.

Ever since realizing Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous Ive looked for crypto-currencies that strive for anonymity since this is the true analog to cash.
Darkcoin, Shadow, Monero and many others have all crossed my radar in the past. In fact I'm pretty heavily invested in Shadow (another innovative coin) and have a few Monero. I think any investor would do wisely to hedge their bets.

To ignore Bytecoin is total madness. Their code is truly innovative, has changed crypto for the better, and is being developed rapidly. Cryptonote and bytecoin have changed the landscape of anon coins by offering the most powerful anon crypto to date and we owe them thanks, especially developers who have been inspired by or forked their code.

The cryptonote team and bytecoin team stand in solidaity and I am unswayed by the monero view of the world. I want cutting-edge crypto from the guys who brought us the very first CN currency so Im watching bytecoin. Simple as that.

One does not have to invest in bytecoin to profit from it - just ask monero. Even non-CN coins like Shadow owe much to its innovations.

Whether you believe it's a case of pearls to swine or pearls from swine they are still pearls. I applaud the bytecoin team's innovations and hold some BCN in a show of support for its important achievements past and future.


I think a good analogy to the cryptonote/bytecoin/monero scenario is rockets/Nazi Germany/ NASA.

There's no doubt that the Nazi's excelled in rocket technology, and that tech ended up putting Apollo astronauts on the moon, but who in there right mind would wish the Nazi's themselves had continued developing rocket tech in the 50's and 60's. What happened was the great tech and its leading scientist, Wernher Von Braun, moved to the USA to continue development of rockets, and that's sort of what's happening with cryptonote, the tech has been transferred to a community that will develop it better (i.e. not to accomplish a scam and enrich a few dishonest people).

I like rocket tech, but I don't support Nazi germany the original developer

I like cryptonote tech, but I don't support bytecoin and the original scam developers

I'm glad NASA continued developing rockets instead of Nazi germany, and I don't care that NASA used tech they didn't invent themselves

If you separate the tech, the original creator, and the community best suited to developing the tech for mass adoption the choice of which cryptonote coin to buy and support is obvious.

Maybe the actual crypto scientists who invented cryptonote weren't part of the bytecoin 80% premine scam. I can imagine a scenario where the people who created the tech itself defect to monero, in a similar way to Wernher Von Braun moving to america and working for NASA. That's possible!!


The most conceited, idiotic and offensive analogy I've read in quite some time.

Monero as NASA? You guys would still be exploring the car park. You're having a laugh.
NB All innovators except for monero.



Stop trying to separate the cryptonote team and the bytecoin team  when they stand in solidarity. It's Monero vs the world.

Now run along little hobbitses, Saruman is on his way.

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July 29, 2015, 12:19:21 PM
 #4639


Im not sure how you arrived at that. I suppose it is inevitable that a person following my line of inquiry might be misunderstood but I think I've made my position pretty clear.

Ever since realizing Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous Ive looked for crypto-currencies that strive for anonymity since this is the true analog to cash.
Darkcoin, Shadow, Monero and many others have all crossed my radar in the past. In fact I'm pretty heavily invested in Shadow (another innovative coin) and have a few Monero. I think any investor would do wisely to hedge their bets.

To ignore Bytecoin is total madness. Their code is truly innovative, has changed crypto for the better, and is being developed rapidly. Cryptonote and bytecoin have changed the landscape of anon coins by offering the most powerful anon crypto to date and we owe them thanks, especially developers who have been inspired by or forked their code.

The cryptonote team and bytecoin team stand in solidaity and I am unswayed by the monero view of the world. I want cutting-edge crypto from the guys who brought us the very first CN currency so Im watching bytecoin. Simple as that.

One does not have to invest in bytecoin to profit from it - just ask monero. Even non-CN coins like Shadow owe much to its innovations.

Whether you believe it's a case of pearls to swine or pearls from swine they are still pearls. I applaud the bytecoin team's innovations and hold some BCN in a show of support for its important achievements past and future.


I think a good analogy to the cryptonote/bytecoin/monero scenario is rockets/Nazi Germany/ NASA.

There's no doubt that the Nazi's excelled in rocket technology, and that tech ended up putting Apollo astronauts on the moon, but who in there right mind would wish the Nazi's themselves had continued developing rocket tech in the 50's and 60's. What happened was the great tech and its leading scientist, Wernher Von Braun, moved to the USA to continue development of rockets, and that's sort of what's happening with cryptonote, the tech has been transferred to a community that will develop it better (i.e. not to accomplish a scam and enrich a few dishonest people).

I like rocket tech, but I don't support Nazi germany the original developer

I like cryptonote tech, but I don't support bytecoin and the original scam developers

I'm glad NASA continued developing rockets instead of Nazi germany, and I don't care that NASA used tech they didn't invent themselves

If you separate the tech, the original creator, and the community best suited to developing the tech for mass adoption the choice of which cryptonote coin to buy and support is obvious.

Maybe the actual crypto scientists who invented cryptonote weren't part of the bytecoin 80% premine scam. I can imagine a scenario where the people who created the tech itself defect to monero, in a similar way to Wernher Von Braun moving to america and working for NASA. That's possible!!


The most conceited, idiotic and offensive analogy I've read in quite some time.

Monero as NASA? You guys would still be exploring the car park. You're having a laugh.
NB All innovators except for monero.

Stop trying to separate the cryptonote team and the bytecoin team  when they stand in solidarity. It's Monero vs the world.

Now run along little hobbitses, Saruman is on his way.

Ok then, I was wrong, silly me for giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking you seriously. I've got nothing to do with monero or bytecoin, and assumed you were the same. I can now see that you're not looking for the truth, what a pity.
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July 29, 2015, 01:34:20 PM
Last edit: July 29, 2015, 03:17:45 PM by child_harold
 #4640


Im not sure how you arrived at that. I suppose it is inevitable that a person following my line of inquiry might be misunderstood but I think I've made my position pretty clear.

Ever since realizing Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous Ive looked for crypto-currencies that strive for anonymity since this is the true analog to cash.
Darkcoin, Shadow, Monero and many others have all crossed my radar in the past. In fact I'm pretty heavily invested in Shadow (another innovative coin) and have a few Monero. I think any investor would do wisely to hedge their bets.

To ignore Bytecoin is total madness. Their code is truly innovative, has changed crypto for the better, and is being developed rapidly. Cryptonote and bytecoin have changed the landscape of anon coins by offering the most powerful anon crypto to date and we owe them thanks, especially developers who have been inspired by or forked their code.

The cryptonote team and bytecoin team stand in solidaity and I am unswayed by the monero view of the world. I want cutting-edge crypto from the guys who brought us the very first CN currency so Im watching bytecoin. Simple as that.

One does not have to invest in bytecoin to profit from it - just ask monero. Even non-CN coins like Shadow owe much to its innovations.

Whether you believe it's a case of pearls to swine or pearls from swine they are still pearls. I applaud the bytecoin team's innovations and hold some BCN in a show of support for its important achievements past and future.


I think a good analogy to the cryptonote/bytecoin/monero scenario is rockets/Nazi Germany/ NASA.

There's no doubt that the Nazi's excelled in rocket technology, and that tech ended up putting Apollo astronauts on the moon, but who in there right mind would wish the Nazi's themselves had continued developing rocket tech in the 50's and 60's. What happened was the great tech and its leading scientist, Wernher Von Braun, moved to the USA to continue development of rockets, and that's sort of what's happening with cryptonote, the tech has been transferred to a community that will develop it better (i.e. not to accomplish a scam and enrich a few dishonest people).

I like rocket tech, but I don't support Nazi germany the original developer

I like cryptonote tech, but I don't support bytecoin and the original scam developers

I'm glad NASA continued developing rockets instead of Nazi germany, and I don't care that NASA used tech they didn't invent themselves

If you separate the tech, the original creator, and the community best suited to developing the tech for mass adoption the choice of which cryptonote coin to buy and support is obvious.

Maybe the actual crypto scientists who invented cryptonote weren't part of the bytecoin 80% premine scam. I can imagine a scenario where the people who created the tech itself defect to monero, in a similar way to Wernher Von Braun moving to america and working for NASA. That's possible!!


The most conceited, idiotic and offensive analogy I've read in quite some time.

Monero as NASA? You guys would still be exploring the car park. You're having a laugh.
NB All innovators except for monero.

Stop trying to separate the cryptonote team and the bytecoin team  when they stand in solidarity. It's Monero vs the world.

Now run along little hobbitses, Saruman is on his way.

Ok then, I was wrong, silly me for giving you the benefit of the doubt and taking you seriously. I've got nothing to do with monero or bytecoin, and assumed you were the same. I can now see that you're not looking for the truth, what a pity.

SInce you are not the monerian i took you for i retract the word conceited. My tongue-lashing may have been overly harsh (although you did mention nazis, and you said disparaging crap about the BCN devs) since you have left such a rich seam of humour in the monero does nasa play.

You cast aspersions on my truth-seeking when your mind is seemingly closed? huh  

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