Livecoin.net Scam

[Joel_Jantsen]

So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us as to how important BTT is these days

Because they know that crypto has gone past this forum and they get a good amount of noobs from all over the internet who are easy targets. You'd never come across an established member for this forum falling victim of such exchange scams. It's mostly the newbies who are new into crypto and unaware how things work around here. Having said that, every newbie that has been scammed consider this forum as their primary source to start a scam accusation which makes this forum relevant to the general audience.

[mikeywith]

Its like, no shit, they should have been on the lookout for irregularities in the blockchains of the coins they are trading. There's lots of things that can be done -- for starters, the Monacoin devs could fix their faulty calculation of difficulty retargetting, yet they never did. From Reddit:

All of the above is irrelevant as every POW coin is subject to 51% attack, a good exchange must handle these issues on their own,  if all attempts fail the exchange is the only party responsible , they have to pay the price for listing that coin and making profit of it, name me any other exchange that listed Monaconin and now still disables withdrawals and list the coin for about 17% of it's price, name a single exchange that does the shit and blame the def team for it ( don't waste your time searching, there is NON)

Monero DID make changes to their wallet software after a theoretical exploit was confirmed to exist and reported to developers by Livecoin. So what are you talking about "nothing to be done"...? Your statement is 100% inaccurate.

Lol, how is my statement inaccurate? you do understand that "theoretical" means before something happens, after the attack, the attacker probably sold Monacoin for BTC and on a plane to some Island, what would Monacoin team do exactly ?  

Despite the fact that OP is a prick and had months to withdrawal his coins (except for MONA, as nobody can)

you keep trying to come up with excuses on behalf of Livecoin, the Monacoins in his account are his own, he must be able to withdrawal them anytime he wants, you can't hold the OP's coins and say he go solve your problem with the dev team, or sell it here for 17% of it's value, that is stupid.  

I still agree that's not a good excuse to lock him out of his account. I've said this from the very beginning.

Yet you still oppose a flag that indicates it's dangerous to deal with Livecoin.

let me ask you a simple a question , feel free to ignore it : Do you really think it is SAFE to trade on Livecoin?

[IMadeYouReadThis]

But I can explain that to you

In fact, it is hard to understand why you can't understand it. The simple answer is that they don't particularly care about BTT and neither do most other exchanges out there. But we can still see the Bitfinex thread with Bitfinex representative never showing up again. The inference should be pretty evident and straightforward. They don't give a fuck about the forum any more but they definitely did at the beginning

Apart from that, I'm strongly inclined to think that it was mostly through Hhampuz's effort that Livecoin agreed to run a signature campaign here (given how eagerly he tried to fix matters with this foul accusation). So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us as to how important BTT is these days

I agree Bitcointalk could be taken lightly and we should think about the importance of Bitcointalk this days, many fake project are just lurking here finding innocent newbie victims. But I don't think this is the case with livecoin, as they were running as I read, a highly paying signature campaign, and it seems they had some of the importance given to Bitcointalk promotion through it. They even had a higher level account here which is not worth loosing really. So, I would not think they don't give a fuck about the forum.

I don't care about the opinions of Jr Members alt accounts. Post under your main account or get lost.

You are just a critical thinking person, pointing fingers, calling alts, protecting a shady exchange... Who is out for blood here ?

I think you should better get lost from here, you sound more ODD!

[izooomrud]

Even Op is not active and every normal OP in his thread is active constantly.

And what else can I say here, I have already spoken here quite a lot. There are no attempts to solve a problem on the exchange and they do not respond to my letters. Here they go on saying that I slandered them, so I broke their rules.
But I read their rules from beginning to end, but did not find a clause prohibiting lying!
Why then should I delete my messages to get my money back if I didn’t break anything?!
Moreover, I did not lie

[deisik]

But I can explain that to you

In fact, it is hard to understand why you can't understand it. The simple answer is that they don't particularly care about BTT and neither do most other exchanges out there. But we can still see the Bitfinex thread with Bitfinex representative never showing up again. The inference should be pretty evident and straightforward. They don't give a fuck about the forum any more but they definitely did at the beginning

Apart from that, I'm strongly inclined to think that it was mostly through Hhampuz's effort that Livecoin agreed to run a signature campaign here (given how eagerly he tried to fix matters with this foul accusation). So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us as to how important BTT is these days

I agree Bitcointalk could be taken lightly and we should think about the importance of Bitcointalk this days, many fake project are just lurking here finding innocent newbie victims. But I don't think this is the case with livecoin, as they were running as I read, a highly paying signature campaign, and it seems they had some of the importance given to Bitcointalk promotion through it. They even had a higher level account here which is not worth loosing really. So, I would not think they don't give a fuck about the forum

It looks like they don't care as they obviously preferred to have a red tag rather than to give in. And if you ask me, it tells more about BTT (and its real importance in such matters) than Livecoin (as they go on as before)

So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us as to how important BTT is these days

Because they know that crypto has gone past this forum and they get a good amount of noobs from all over the internet who are easy targets. You'd never come across an established member for this forum falling victim of such exchange scams

So how come Bitfinex is avoiding BTT but they are still active on Reddit?

[wwzsocki]

...I read their rules from beginning to end, but did not find a clause prohibiting lying!...

So you confirm that you have known the TOS from the very beginning and read them fully before registering. This is a very interesting statement.

...Moreover, I did not lie

You were proven to be lying and admitted this personally in this thread. I know because I have read it and now I'm not able to find it, another coincidence?

[izooomrud]

You were proven to be lying and admitted this personally in this thread.

Lol
Me? You really?!  Show me where

[mikeywith]

JFC

Relax, it is not worth it   

Again you're just regurgitating stuff trodded through this thread a dozen times.

In an attempt to help you understand, but you don't seem to want to, at this point i have to finally agree with you " no point telling you anything anymore ".

Your statement was inaccurate because you said there was nothing to be done while there was.

It is pretty clear that i meant there was nothing to be done "after" the attack was finished. I still stand by it, if you disagree to simple technical facts , then that is your problem.

Yes of course I do

Thanks for answering.

I am off this topic.

[TECSHARE]

You mean people don't want to come forward and post about a problem with an exchange that locks your funds for doing so? Shocking!

Yeah because nobody in the history of the forum has ever created a second account 

So your argument is others aren't complaining because sock puppets exist? Good point Nutilduhhh.

None of this back and forth matters. The development team is not financially responsible for securing anything short of proving them having been actively engaged in fraud. Everyone invests in these projects at their own risk. Exchanges are responsible for securing assets under its control. The fact that it sat around for months getting robbed is something any halfway competent IT security team would have detected, and is not the responsibility of the development team. As a result of its own negligence it is apparent they are insolvent and do not have the requisite coins to represent its actual token allotment. Given that sorting this out is way more complicated than could be done by such a half assed run company, let alone a team that would have noticed this problem earlier, they are in way over their heads.

Right now I would estimate they are trying to quietly buy into this token and buying time to do so cheaply as they continue to collect trading fees. Holding a customers coins hostage for months is the kind of thing that tends to drive a coins price down. This whole time they are also trying to fumble thru what if any fraudulent accounts are left holding any funds hoping it is significant enough to fill the gap.

Livecoin needs to come clean and stop playing backdoor games. If they don't this is going to be much worse than simply the loss of this one coin holding. Admit fault, issue temporary not withdraw-able tokens to represent the lost funds to be fulfilled over time. Another option would be to "socialize" the losses and give every token holder a haircut for immediate withdrawl. Obviously not going to be popular but being honest about it at least allows people who are not willing to tolerate this response the opportunity to pick other exchanges for future use. Look into the way BTC-E handled it, IMO they did a good job in basically the worst of circumstances. It was a much different cause, but a similar scenario regarding obligations to the customer base but on a larger scale.

So does anyone have any refutation for this argument here or are you all just going to pretend this is about a shitty, unenforceable, possibly illegal TOS?

[nutildah]

It is pretty clear that i meant there was nothing to be done "after" the attack was finished. I still stand by it, if you disagree to simple technical facts , then that is your problem.

Yeah and its pretty clear you are continuing to ignore the fact that things could be and were done. "Simple technical facts"... Monacoin COULD attempt to solve its difficulty retargeting bug and Monero DID patch the exploit in their wallet. If you disagree with simple technical facts, well I'm sure you already know the rest.

Everything to be said here has already been said at least 3 times. I'm also wrapping up my involvement with this thread.

Edit: I found the Github entry where Monacoin did indeed patch their difficulty retargeting bug, it was in their last update:

This fixes an issue where a 51% attack can change difficulty at will.

So the idea that "nothing could be done" is utter rubbish.

[blurryeyed]

Seeing as everyone is no longer getting paid to promote this scam in their profiles & have (mostly) stopped trying to defend their actions, I thought I'd do it for free.

[babo]

Seeing as everyone is no longer getting paid to promote this scam in their profiles & have (mostly) stopped trying to defend their actions, I thought I'd do it for free.

no dude, for example i want only to understand the fact.. but i'm tired
for do this i getting
- insulted
- red trust (removed) by creator of topic
- flag

in my humble opinion, if you are stupid and leave fund in exchange is your problem, not mine
after being insulted i decided not to participate in the thread anymore... this is my choice

you can talk about it as much as you want, but know that now you're just spamming


anyway, welcome in my ignore list

[izooomrud]

Seeing as everyone is no longer getting paid to promote this scam in their profiles & have (mostly) stopped trying to defend their actions, I thought I'd do it for free.

i want only to understand the fact.. but i'm tired

There are so many facts here that you can understand.

[xtraelv]

One complaint initiated the thread - there are more complaints.  I posted this earlier in the thread.  I think the fact that their legal structure appears to be based on untruths is concerning.

They've been around since 2014 -- 5 years is a long time to build up an epic exit scam by crypto standards.

Quadriga was founded in 2013
Bitsane has been around since 2016

"Annonymous" ICO's and ICO's with a fake team disappear all the time.

What makes you think that an exchange with a fake CEO and is owned by a company that claims it never traded is a safe bet ?

[teeGUMES]

And BTW Fuck You teeGUMES for red tagging me over this shit. You're a major asshole.

I didn't abandon the sig campaign 30 hours early because I don't believe I'm at risk of "promoting a scam exchange." I still don't consider Livecoin to be scammers -- if this offends you, tag me for it.

Are two different people running the nutildah account?

[suchmoon]

Are two different people running the nutildah account?

IANAL, but he didn't say he wouldn't call you an asshole for that so technically it seems he didn't break a written contract with you  

[malevolent]

You mean people don't want to come forward and post about a problem with an exchange that locks your funds for doing so? Shocking!

Yeah because nobody in the history of the forum has ever created a second account  

They'd find out who's the person behind the account and ban him anyway from their exchange for daring to write about their negative experiences.

Apart from that, I'm strongly inclined to believe that it was mostly through Hhampuz's effort that Livecoin agreed to run a signature campaign here (given how eagerly he tried to fix matters with this foul accusation). So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us all as to how important BTT is these days

It tells more about their professionalism (or lack thereof) than about bitcointalk itself. Their replies say all.

This particular instance of "wrongdoing" by Livecoin, and its lapses in diligent monitoring still aren't enough for me to deem it a "scam exchange."
I think the label of "scammer" for the Livecoin account is too harsh. Unfavorable Terms of Service - sure. Occasionally irresponsible -- likely. Scammers? No.

Why then has Hhampuz withdrawn his opposition to the flag?

[izooomrud]

OP had access to his funds for months, bitched incessantly that he couldn't withdraw his MONA, was offered multiple resolutions, kept bitching, got his account suspended for violating ToS. As morally uncompelling as they may be, until brought to a court of law and ruled otherwise, ToS stand as a contract to which OP agreed.

What decisions are you talking about? To all my questions about Mona, they answered that I should solve this myself with the developer. They did not want to solve anything! And they blocked me after public criticism of their work, after which they referred to the violation of the rules prohibiting falsehood. But they have no rules that really forbid lying, so stop talking nonsense!

[deisik]

You mean people don't want to come forward and post about a problem with an exchange that locks your funds for doing so? Shocking!

Yeah because nobody in the history of the forum has ever created a second account 

They'd find out who's the person behind the account and ban him anyway from their exchange for daring to write about their negative experiences.

Apart from that, I'm strongly inclined to believe that it was mostly through Hhampuz's effort that Livecoin agreed to run a signature campaign here (given how eagerly he tried to fix matters with this foul accusation). So the real question that we should ask ourselves is how come that they discard the forum as irrelevant as far as their reputation is concerned. I think that should be a reality check for us all as to how important BTT is these days

It tells more about their professionalism (or lack thereof) than about bitcointalk itself. Their replies say all

Weak point as BTT is notorious for its petty infighting, scheming and warring built around the trust system (or rather its abuse). This very thread is quite an example of just that

This particular instance of "wrongdoing" by Livecoin, and its lapses in diligent monitoring still aren't enough for me to deem it a "scam exchange."
I think the label of "scammer" for the Livecoin account is too harsh. Unfavorable Terms of Service - sure. Occasionally irresponsible -- likely. Scammers? No.

Why then has Hhampuz withdrawn his opposition to the flag?

I don't know as this is not my post. I guess you should ask him

B cлeдyющeм гoдy я пepexoжy в 11 клacc, a ты кaк-тo нeyвaжитeльнo кo мнe oтнocишьcя! Tы пpeдocтaвляeшь дoкaзaтeльcтвa бeз дoлжнoгo yвaжeния!

Translated:

Next year, I turn to grade 11, and you somehow disrespect me! You provide proof without due respect!

...

Tell me OP, are you 18 years of age or older? Maybe Grade 11 has a different meaning in Russian than it does in the rest of the world

He was kidding and it was meant as a joke really, though there is still a small chance that he was not. But personally, I don't think he is much older than 18 anyway

[izooomrud]

From the Livecoin ToS:

The Customer guarantees not to disclose any information, obtained from the Service support operator, in any channels of communication. Violation of this rule will lead to the account termination without refunding of the remaining balance of the account.

I was not informed about the violation of this clause, which is confirmed by the correspondence. I myself deleted this correspondence and informed the Livecoin administration, but this was not enough for them, and they began to demand to delete everything I wrote, although everything else does not violate their rules!

Translated:

Next year, I turn to grade 11, and you somehow disrespect me! You provide proof without due respect!

From the ToS:

In case the Customer violates any of the provisions of the present Terms, the Service reserves the right to terminate the Customer’s account and block all funds therein, including Cryptocurrency.

Tell me OP, are you 18 years of age or older? Maybe Grade 11 has a different meaning in Russian than it does in the rest of the world.

You present the same stupid facts that present to livecoin. Only an idiot cannot understand that this was said for the sake of trolling. To do this, read all the correspondence from where you got this quote. There scam defender, like you, called me a schoolboy