[ANN] Qora | Released 16 May | 100% POS | New Source

[mrsanny]

Another scam? My god. Just like whatcoin. Another failure!

IPO is full of risk! We should be careful later!

[50cent_rapper]

So...  how long are we giving qora to appear with an update before asking Anon136 to return funds?    

To be clear...  I wasn't expecting a launch yesterday as there was NO such announcement...  just looking for an update.

Well, I think if we get no answer from Qora during 24h, then...  

[hyunsookmom]

Actually probably no one tested it properly. Like one guy (notsoshifty) said its all new code and I expect everyone believed him.  If it isn't you can pretty much blame him for misleading everyone. Or he is Qora?

Well, hyunsookmom, you're talking a lot of BS in this thread, but this message is about me so I'll point out some things.

Firstly off, I'm not Qora, although of course I can't prove that.

I didn't say "it's all new code", I said "Decompilation suggests it doesn't appear to be based on nxt code" because TheMightyX asked "Has anyone actually reviewed the code to make sure its not just the NXT source". I decompiled the Qora beta and compared it to Nxt, and they look completely different. I used words like 'suggests' and 'appears' because it's decompilation of obfuscated code after all.

Then you said "The Wallet is eMunie's beta testing wallet..." so i compared the Qora beta decompiled code with the latest eMunie decompiled code. Again, they don't look similar, so I said so.

As for "I expect everyone believed him" and "If it isn't you can pretty much blame him for misleading everyone", I also gave people sufficient information on how to check it for themselves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg6153672;topicseen#msg6153672

It looks like what you're doing is seeing that the UI is vaguely similar, and concluding that they're the same, and concluding that Qora is a scam.

It might be a scam. My investment was through escrow so I'm protected against Qora doing a runner now. What I'm not protected against is Qora releasing a client that basically works (you can transfer funds, you can create aliases, etc), but doesn't stand up to any form of serious scrutiny once it's launched. Like, it doesn't have sufficient protection against double spends. I put a post out about that, put nobody apart from Qora replied. Posting again here, in case anybody has input:

I've loaded the client and made a few test transactions and naming assignments. In those basic tests it all seems to work fine with only cosmetic issues.

My question (to beta testers, fellow investors and potential investors, and qora) is, how can we verify that the code implements functionality like:
 - prevent double spends
 - uses PoS to achieve consensus, and prevent 51% (90%? 99%?) attacks
 - prevent transaction replays
 - prevent transaction malleability
 - handle fork-related scenarios correctly
 - ensure no new funds are generated after equivalent of genesis block
etc?

This is especially important as we have no access to readable code, and it is not based on any existing cryptocurrency code.

Sorry but you did seem to give an all clear on the code as original and legit. No one is really blaming you and I admit that was a strong statement that wasn't really that serious, but I am suggesting people DID see your comments and assumed everything was all good for the coin. Ultimately more the fool them.

Whose fault is it that people paid money and lost it? Themselves of course but you should also take a bit of personal responsibility by accepting you influenced the conversation.

Sorry , but what lost money when this coin was supposed to have an escrow?

Escrow for many IPOs make people think it's legit. Whether they are stupid to is neither here nor there, people DID pay straight to the guy....a lot.

I have suggested also earlier why people tend to avoid Anon1 Escrow due to not knowing how to use private keys.


I think the whole thing about this IPO is people once they saw or 'thought' they saw a working beta with a completely new code and offering Escrow they thought it was a cast iron legit opportunity.

But yes they should of Escrowed but the fact is 80btc did get sent direct. I expect many have learned a lesson from this. Bit I do hope the Escrow thing gets explained a bit more in laymans terms so not to deter any noobs from using it. Bear in mind Escrow was only available near the end of the IPO.

[niothor]

Escrow for many IPOs make people think it's legit. Whether they are stupid to is neither here nor there, people DID pay straight to the guy....a lot.

I have suggested also earlier why people tend to avoid Anon1 Escrow due to not knowing how to use private keys.


I think the whole thing about this IPO is people once they saw or 'thought' they saw a working beta with a completely new code and offering Escrow they thought it was a cast iron legit opportunity.

But yes they should of Escrowed but the fact is 80btc did get sent direct. I expect many have learned a lesson from this. Bit I do hope the Escrow thing gets explained a bit more in laymans terms so not to deter any noobs from using it. Bear in mind Escrow was only available near the end of the IPO.

People sending directly are asking to be robbed.
I really don't get it , after the visacoin madness in january and the wave of ipos why aren't people learning?

Or is this board attracting idiots ?

[dzarmush]

Since we all got here anyway maybe it would make sense to make something of it. For example we can do at least a simple fork of Nxt. Like Nas. At least it's something. People will get coins, nobody lost money. Additionaly to 10B planned coins we can release 1B dev fund and 1B marketing fund. Is there any chance we can have a couple of develoreprs that can do such thing?

[niothor]

I still don't believe that it is scam.
IPO's money are still in IPO wallet.

Visacoin kept IPO money in the wallet for several month.

Anyhow, I see no reason not to launch it. There is a working beta. People received and sent coins. Why wouldn't he create a genesis and send coins to people. Isn't it that hard.

If the code for the so called beta is a failure , and people will receive coins of a not properly working code... this would be just as they wouldn't have any.
Most probably it's an unfinished coin and a scam.

[niothor]

Since we all got here anyway maybe it would make sense to make something of it. For example we can do at least a simple fork of Nxt. Like Nas. At least it's something. People will get coins, nobody lost money. Additionaly to 10B planned coins we can release 1B dev fund and 1B marketing fund. Is there any chance we can have a couple of develoreprs that can do such thing?

Why should somebody create a coin for the people that invested in a fake ipo?
Whit this kind of userbase ... the coin is doomed.

Besides , if somebody from the investors knew how to do this , they wouldn't be investors in a coin , they would have already launched it.

[wizzardTim]

Where is the dev??? I'm protected through escrow, but it's sad cause I really liked the simplistic user-friendly GUI.

[nextgencoin]

As someone who will lose money from this IPO if it's a scam I wish the scammers would have the decency to say sorry folks I'm a scammer. I think a few including me will hold onto hope for a few more days. Kind of sad really...

[dzarmush]

Since we all got here anyway maybe it would make sense to make something of it. For example we can do at least a simple fork of Nxt. Like Nas. At least it's something. People will get coins, nobody lost money. Additionaly to 10B planned coins we can release 1B dev fund and 1B marketing fund. Is there any chance we can have a couple of develoreprs that can do such thing?

Why should somebody create a coin for the people that invested in a fake ipo?
Whit this kind of userbase ... the coin is doomed.

Besides , if somebody from the investors knew how to do this , they wouldn't be investors in a coin , they would have already launched it.

Just some thoughts out loud. I guess you right.

Well, how about that. We can make a coin for those who sent money to Anon. We were mindful, we're good initial investors and obviously we wanted to get into new coin. If others would agree we could find a developer for those 46 Btc, could we?

[nextgencoin]

As someone who will lose money from this IPO if it's a scam I wish the scammers would have the decency to say sorry folks I'm a scammer. I think a few including me will hold onto hope for a few more days. Kind of sad really...

OR at least say something creative like this guy who scammed me...   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=554784.0

hahaha

[gomei]

Actually probably no one tested it properly. Like one guy (notsoshifty) said its all new code and I expect everyone believed him.  If it isn't you can pretty much blame him for misleading everyone. Or he is Qora?

Well, hyunsookmom, you're talking a lot of BS in this thread, but this message is about me so I'll point out some things.

Firstly off, I'm not Qora, although of course I can't prove that.

I didn't say "it's all new code", I said "Decompilation suggests it doesn't appear to be based on nxt code" because TheMightyX asked "Has anyone actually reviewed the code to make sure its not just the NXT source". I decompiled the Qora beta and compared it to Nxt, and they look completely different. I used words like 'suggests' and 'appears' because it's decompilation of obfuscated code after all.

Then you said "The Wallet is eMunie's beta testing wallet..." so i compared the Qora beta decompiled code with the latest eMunie decompiled code. Again, they don't look similar, so I said so.

As for "I expect everyone believed him" and "If it isn't you can pretty much blame him for misleading everyone", I also gave people sufficient information on how to check it for themselves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg6153672;topicseen#msg6153672

It looks like what you're doing is seeing that the UI is vaguely similar, and concluding that they're the same, and concluding that Qora is a scam.

It might be a scam. My investment was through escrow so I'm protected against Qora doing a runner now. What I'm not protected against is Qora releasing a client that basically works (you can transfer funds, you can create aliases, etc), but doesn't stand up to any form of serious scrutiny once it's launched. Like, it doesn't have sufficient protection against double spends. I put a post out about that, put nobody apart from Qora replied. Posting again here, in case anybody has input:

I've loaded the client and made a few test transactions and naming assignments. In those basic tests it all seems to work fine with only cosmetic issues.

My question (to beta testers, fellow investors and potential investors, and qora) is, how can we verify that the code implements functionality like:
 - prevent double spends
 - uses PoS to achieve consensus, and prevent 51% (90%? 99%?) attacks
 - prevent transaction replays
 - prevent transaction malleability
 - handle fork-related scenarios correctly
 - ensure no new funds are generated after equivalent of genesis block
etc?

This is especially important as we have no access to readable code, and it is not based on any existing cryptocurrency code.

Sorry but you did seem to give an all clear on the code as original and legit. No one is really blaming you and I admit that was a strong statement that wasn't really that serious, but I am suggesting people DID see your comments and assumed everything was all good for the coin. Ultimately more the fool them.

Whose fault is it that people paid money and lost it? Themselves of course but you should also take a bit of personal responsibility by accepting you influenced the conversation.

what's going on ?

[dzarmush]

what's going on ?

Dev disappeared

[signingoff]

what's going on ?

Dev disappeared

It is not a good sign.

[notsoshifty]

Sorry but you did seem to give an all clear on the code as original and legit. No one is really blaming you and I admit that was a strong statement that wasn't really that serious, but I am suggesting people DID see your comments and assumed everything was all good for the coin. Ultimately more the fool them.

Whose fault is it that people paid money and lost it? Themselves of course but you should also take a bit of personal responsibility by accepting you influenced the conversation.

I tried to put in sufficient disclaimers about looking at decompiled code etc. Plus my (mostly unanswered) post asking for input from people about how we investors & beta testers can judge the worthiness of the coin before releasing escrow.

Out of interest, how much did you invest, on what date did you invest, and did you use escrow?

[notsoshifty]

Anyhow, I see no reason not to launch it. There is a working beta. People received and sent coins. Why wouldn't he create a genesis and send coins to people. Isn't it that hard.

If the code for the so called beta is a failure , and people will receive coins of a not properly working code... this would be just as they wouldn't have any.
Most probably it's an unfinished coin and a scam.

I agree with niothor's first point. There is a big difference between a working beta of something that can transfer funds and has a genesis block [virtually worthless], and a properly tested fully supported coin that  solves all the normal problems (double spend, etc) and has an active dev [a lot of potential].


I haven't yet concluded that this is a scam. Call me gullible, but the dev not communicating for two days doesn't mean he's currently on a flight to the Maldives. He never said he would release it this week; rather this week is the end of the IPO. If it is completely new code, it should be released when it's ready and no earlier. On the other hand, I'm escrowed, so all I lose is 0.02BTC (and my dreams).

[notsoshifty]

I wish someone with real tech knowhow could have a look at the code and decided what this thing really is.

He might just just tell me to sod off But I thinking as I type this to maybe send a PM to someone like Come from Beyond the guy dealing with NXT to have a quick look at it. Anyone else have a good person to ask or know they can ask?

Do it. You could also ask Jean-Luc.

[nextgencoin]

I wish someone with real tech knowhow could have a look at the code and decided what this thing really is.

He might just just tell me to sod off But I thinking as I type this to maybe send a PM to someone like Come from Beyond the guy dealing with NXT to have a quick look at it. Anyone else have a good person to ask or know they can ask?

Do it. You could also ask Jean-Luc.

I PM'd Come from Beyond and also started a thread. Not sure how either would be treated.

I don't know anyone on this forum so others might be better to do this. I just want to know what this beta file actually was.

[notsoshifty]

Since we all got here anyway maybe it would make sense to make something of it. For example we can do at least a simple fork of Nxt. Like Nas. At least it's something. People will get coins, nobody lost money. Additionaly to 10B planned coins we can release 1B dev fund and 1B marketing fund. Is there any chance we can have a couple of develoreprs that can do such thing?

Why should somebody create a coin for the people that invested in a fake ipo?
Whit this kind of userbase ... the coin is doomed.

Besides , if somebody from the investors knew how to do this , they wouldn't be investors in a coin , they would have already launched it.

Just some thoughts out loud. I guess you right.

Well, how about that. We can make a coin for those who sent money to Anon. We were mindful, we're good initial investors and obviously we wanted to get into new coin. If others would agree we could find a developer for those 46 Btc, could we?

You might not have 46 BTC to play with, as some escrowed investors would likely pull out.

Some options would be:

1. Create PoS bitcoin clone
2. Create NXT clone
3. Create coin as asset within NXT
4. Create coin as asset with XCP

Any of those could be done for considerably less than 46 BTC.

But I'm with niothor on this one; I'm not sure such a coin would be in demand.

[notsoshifty]

I PM'd Come from Beyond and also started a thread. Not sure how either would be treated.

I don't know anyone on this forum so others might be better to do this. I just want to know what this beta file actually was.

Can you link the thread?