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Author Topic: Bitcoin 100: Developed Specifically for Non-Profits  (Read 241827 times)
Phinnaeus Gage
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November 24, 2012, 04:24:22 PM
 #1041

Please take a look at the following thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127522.0

It's an open letter to LPA. I want to tweet the URL to them tomorrow, but desire any input prior to me doing so. The thread is locked, so please state your concerns on this thread.

Thank you.

~Bruno K~


I'm going to tweet the link to the thread now.

~Bruno K~
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Stephen Gornick
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November 24, 2012, 10:15:45 PM
 #1042

I just happened across something that is[edit: was] possibly disturbing to me:

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Bitcoin 100 will gladly donate 100 bitcoins (100 BTC), approximately $1,200 USD (current exchange rate), to your venerable organization. There is only one tiny string attached prior to us contributing said donation. The caveat I speak of has already been accepted by a couple other non-profits of which I'll provide proof momentarily.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127522.0

How long after they put this donation badge on their website do they receive the 100 BTC?  (i.e., if they add this they do then right away receive the funds?)


Phinnaeus Gage
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November 24, 2012, 10:54:03 PM
 #1043

I just happened across something that is possibly disturbing to me:

Quote
Bitcoin 100 will gladly donate 100 bitcoins (100 BTC), approximately $1,200 USD (current exchange rate), to your venerable organization. There is only one tiny string attached prior to us contributing said donation. The caveat I speak of has already been accepted by a couple other non-profits of which I'll provide proof momentarily.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127522.0

How long after they put this donation badge on their website do they receive the 100 BTC?  (i.e., if they add this they do then right away receive the funds?)


Shortly after they have done such, as we've done previously for two other charitable organizations. There may be a little lag time, but not much. I hope that addresses your concern, Stephen. Please reply if I missed out something.

~Bruno K~
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November 24, 2012, 11:08:24 PM
 #1044

I just happened across something that is possibly disturbing to me:

Quote
Bitcoin 100 will gladly donate 100 bitcoins (100 BTC), approximately $1,200 USD (current exchange rate), to your venerable organization. There is only one tiny string attached prior to us contributing said donation. The caveat I speak of has already been accepted by a couple other non-profits of which I'll provide proof momentarily.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127522.0

How long after they put this donation badge on their website do they receive the 100 BTC?  (i.e., if they add this they do then right away receive the funds?)



Well, I personally find your quote a bit too dramatic. It's no big deal to put up a new donation option/adress. This quote makes it sound like selling your soul to the devil or the like..

Took me 1 hour to find on my dual core laptop with vanitygen.
https://blockchain.info/address/1LPofATXV8gjuWu24v591YmGFn828k3wZV

As soon as that transaction confirms the firstbits for 1LPofA will be taken.

Great. With this hasty move you removed every option to generate that vanity adress with provable "only we have the priv key" for them.
People may trust you here. Donations may be a small sums game.
But you might be shocked to learn that real business (tm) might not accept to have a funds accepting account where some stranger(s) have unlimited access to. I don't even believe that bitpay would want to touch this adress.
However, there are unlimited more adresses with those starting bits. Not with those firstbits though.

Ente
Stephen Gornick
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November 24, 2012, 11:24:06 PM
 #1045

Shortly after they have done such, as we've done previously for two other charitable organizations. There may be a little lag time, but not much.

Ok, sorry.  I was concerned that the funds would need to be collected from pledges first and the possibility that the deal might not be honored in a timely manner if collections fell short.

[Update: I've since learned that Bitcoin 100 does a drive to collect from existing pledges and solicit new pledges, but Bitcoin 100 has pooled several hundred BTC on reserve and thus is not at risk of not delivering because of lack of funds should for whatever reason the collection efforts fall short.]

Phinnaeus Gage
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November 24, 2012, 11:25:09 PM
 #1046

I just happened across something that is possibly disturbing to me:

Quote
Bitcoin 100 will gladly donate 100 bitcoins (100 BTC), approximately $1,200 USD (current exchange rate), to your venerable organization. There is only one tiny string attached prior to us contributing said donation. The caveat I speak of has already been accepted by a couple other non-profits of which I'll provide proof momentarily.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127522.0

How long after they put this donation badge on their website do they receive the 100 BTC?  (i.e., if they add this they do then right away receive the funds?)



Well, I personally find your quote a bit too dramatic. It's no big deal to put up a new donation option/adress. This quote makes it sound like selling your soul to the devil or the like..

Took me 1 hour to find on my dual core laptop with vanitygen.
https://blockchain.info/address/1LPofATXV8gjuWu24v591YmGFn828k3wZV

As soon as that transaction confirms the firstbits for 1LPofA will be taken.

Great. With this hasty move you removed every option to generate that vanity adress with provable "only we have the priv key" for them.
People may trust you here. Donations may be a small sums game.
But you might be shocked to learn that real business (tm) might not accept to have a funds accepting account where some stranger(s) have unlimited access to. I don't even believe that bitpay would want to touch this adress.
However, there are unlimited more adresses with those starting bits. Not with those firstbits though.

Ente

I'm not exactly sure what Stephen's concern is about, but if I didn't address it properly, I'm sure he'll readdress the issue.

As far as the address and private key are concerned, I'm under in the impression that the address can be passed and a new private key (password) can be hashed. Somebody correct me if I'm deeply mistaken here.

~Bruno K~

EDIT: (we cross-post)

Shortly after they have done such, as we've done previously for two other charitable organizations. There may be a little lag time, but not much.

Ok, sorry.  I was concerned that the funds would need to be collected from pledges first and the possibility that the deal might not be honored in a timely manner if collections fell short.


To be fair, even though there are well over 100 bitcoins in the current pool, that does not necessarily mean that there's a 100 BTC immediately available, therefore your concern is warranted. The bottom line is that once LPA accepts, we will know how short we are and a quick fund drive should get the desired amount up to snuff.

Raoul Duke
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November 25, 2012, 12:04:00 AM
 #1047

Great. With this hasty move you removed every option to generate that vanity adress with provable "only we have the priv key" for them.
People may trust you here. Donations may be a small sums game.
But you might be shocked to learn that real business (tm) might not accept to have a funds accepting account where some stranger(s) have unlimited access to. I don't even believe that bitpay would want to touch this adress.
However, there are unlimited more adresses with those starting bits. Not with those firstbits though.

Ente

Why would people need to trust me?
I didn't offer the address for taking, did I? In fact I was very clear that those firstbits would be taken after the transaction confirmed.
I don't support firstbits use, much less to be used by persons inexperienced with Bitcoin, as it can lead to errors.

Phinnaeus Gage
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November 25, 2012, 12:15:52 AM
 #1048

Great. With this hasty move you removed every option to generate that vanity adress with provable "only we have the priv key" for them.
People may trust you here. Donations may be a small sums game.
But you might be shocked to learn that real business (tm) might not accept to have a funds accepting account where some stranger(s) have unlimited access to. I don't even believe that bitpay would want to touch this adress.
However, there are unlimited more adresses with those starting bits. Not with those firstbits though.

Ente

Why would people need to trust me?
I didn't offer the address for taking, did I? In fact I was very clear that those firstbits would be taken after the transaction confirmed.
I don't support firstbits use, much less to be used by persons inexperienced with Bitcoin, as it can lead to errors.

The vanity license plate W00T can lead to errors also. Is that two zeros or two letter o's?

Having a FirstBits address is not that important. It's more of a novelty thing as far as I'm concern.

~Bruno K~
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November 27, 2012, 03:41:41 PM
 #1049

Staus update for BUND Berlin e.V.  (FOE Germany, Berlin branch):

It's looking good - they'd be delighted to accept donations in Bitcoin and have opened an account with BitPay. However as they are not an US charity but one under German tax law BitPay has as of now classified them as normal merchants with a 4% fee to clear funds to their SEPA account. We're hoping to convince Bitpay to waive these fees. Once this is tackled things are looking pretty well! Maybe someone else can use their connection to BitPay?

Other than that BUND Berlin is actively working on a webpage on their site for Bitcoin donations and will promote this accordingly once its ready and launched. Bitcoin100 can then donate to a 4th (?) charity - one with 14 000 active members and supporters in the Berlin area. This is their website http://www.bund-berlin.de/ (German only, but the bitcoin page coming up is supposed to be bi-lingual and will contain some aspects about the motivation to accept Bitcoin)
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November 27, 2012, 05:21:51 PM
 #1050

Staus update for BUND Berlin e.V.  (FOE Germany, Berlin branch):

It's looking good - they'd be delighted to accept donations in Bitcoin and have opened an account with BitPay. However as they are not an US charity but one under German tax law BitPay has as of now classified them as normal merchants with a 4% fee to clear funds to their SEPA account. We're hoping to convince Bitpay to waive these fees. Once this is tackled things are looking pretty well! Maybe someone else can use their connection to BitPay?

Other than that BUND Berlin is actively working on a webpage on their site for Bitcoin donations and will promote this accordingly once its ready and launched. Bitcoin100 can then donate to a 4th (?) charity - one with 14 000 active members and supporters in the Berlin area. This is their website http://www.bund-berlin.de/ (German only, but the bitcoin page coming up is supposed to be bi-lingual and will contain some aspects about the motivation to accept Bitcoin)

That's good news. Is there no bitpay competitor that will jump in? Are they not willing to use the MtGox features? There you can also have instant exchange on coins received to a certain address. They would only have to trigger the €-withdrawals manually.

I'm German and willing to help if there is any language issue. Else I'm sure there is enough bitcoiners in Berlin to help.

Ente
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November 27, 2012, 06:33:42 PM
 #1051

Quote

Staus update for BUND Berlin e.V.  (FOE Germany, Berlin branch):

It's looking good - they'd be delighted to accept donations in Bitcoin and have opened an account with BitPay. However as they are not an US charity but one under German tax law BitPay has as of now classified them as normal merchants with a 4% fee to clear funds to their SEPA account. We're hoping to convince Bitpay to waive these fees. Once this is tackled things are looking pretty well! Maybe someone else can use their connection to BitPay?
I need such a contact too, to bitpay. I PM'ed and mailed them weeks ago, never any reply. Same topic, a registered NGO, willing to accept Bitcoin donations. Not registered in the US. Never any reply.

Quote
Other than that BUND Berlin is actively working on a webpage on their site for Bitcoin donations and will promote this accordingly once its ready and launched. Bitcoin100 can then donate to a 4th (?) charity - one with 14 000 active members and supporters in the Berlin area. This is their website http://www.bund-berlin.de/ (German only, but the bitcoin page coming up is supposed to be bi-lingual and will contain some aspects about the motivation to accept Bitcoin)
Quote
That's good news. Is there no bitpay competitor that will jump in? Are they not willing to use the MtGox features? There you can also have instant exchange on coins received to a certain address. They would only have to trigger the €-withdrawals manually.

I like bitpay's approach, and love everything they do for the community and Bitcoin in general. But they either are not interested in more NGOs adding unpaid work, or have some communication issues..
I just didn't get around to plan/set everything up with MtGox yet., but will do so next days, hopefully.

Quote
I'm German and willing to help if there is any language issue.

Else I'm sure there is enough bitcoiners in Berlin to help.
There surely are! :-)

They should come to the next Bitcoin Stammtisch (= regular meetup), every first Thursday a month, Room77 in Kreuzberg. We might arrange the transfer of the Bitcoin100 donation for that, for example!

Ente

edit: quotes straightened
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November 27, 2012, 07:34:48 PM
 #1052

Maybe BitPay only has US banks, and thus transfers to Euros are prohibitively expensive?

Phinnaeus Gage
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November 27, 2012, 07:40:07 PM
 #1053

Staus update for BUND Berlin e.V.  (FOE Germany, Berlin branch):

It's looking good - they'd be delighted to accept donations in Bitcoin and have opened an account with BitPay. However as they are not an US charity but one under German tax law BitPay has as of now classified them as normal merchants with a 4% fee to clear funds to their SEPA account. We're hoping to convince Bitpay to waive these fees. Once this is tackled things are looking pretty well! Maybe someone else can use their connection to BitPay?

Other than that BUND Berlin is actively working on a webpage on their site for Bitcoin donations and will promote this accordingly once its ready and launched. Bitcoin100 can then donate to a 4th (?) charity - one with 14 000 active members and supporters in the Berlin area. This is their website http://www.bund-berlin.de/ (German only, but the bitcoin page coming up is supposed to be bi-lingual and will contain some aspects about the motivation to accept Bitcoin)

Great job,  jsmithers. There's always a solution, a wise man (or woman) once said. Ideally, I would still have BitPay be the entity converting bitcoins to fiat for them, charging them zero fees. The way they can do this is process it for them as normal, and sending me the bill. I'm not going to let 40/50 bucks stand in the way of not seeing this happen.

The paramount vision of Bitcoin 100 is that no non-profits will have to pay a processing fee ever again, no matter how that task is accomplished.

The 100 in Bitcoin 100 will stand for 100% of all fees waived--forever! (the wording will of course be polished, but you get the gist)

~Bruno K~
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November 27, 2012, 07:42:27 PM
 #1054

Maybe BitPay only has US banks, and thus transfers to Euros are prohibitively expensive?

From their site: https://bitpay.com/faq

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BitPay is available in every country, and you can set your prices in over 30 different currencies.
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November 27, 2012, 09:25:31 PM
 #1055

(ente please get your quoting right. you quote me and others but actually I said what others said and the other way round.)

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November 28, 2012, 10:54:44 AM
 #1056

BitPay appears to be really busy, I got an answer pretty quickly last night after my contact at BUND Berlin sent an email to their media contact explaining the situation in more detail - certainly not the way things should be.

Basically BitPay is saying they pay quite a hefty fee for SEPA on their end at the moment and this won't change until they establish a bank account / presence in the EU. They've asked about how much accumulation of funds > 100 EUR BUND is willing to agree to per payout, to lower the fees.

BUND Berlin would much like to use the BitPay functionality plus look and feel - with auto currency conversion for the donor, individual hashes / QR codes etc.

Auto conversion to EUR by MtGox and then paying out SEPA sounds like a good idea - 0.6% trade fee for the conversion is acceptable, SEPA payouts are free at MtGox?

I currently see the following possible compromise: Use BitPay just to receive BTC, have them pay a BUND Berlin account at MtGox which will immediately convert to EUR and ask BUND Berlin to clear funds to their bank account regularly when the amount on there is feasable. If we manage to convince BitPay to waive fees for receiving just BTC for non-US charities that would be a great leap forward. Alternatives could be WalletBit and Paysius any other competitors? I'm not sure how stable AcceptBit.com code is yet but it's probably too much hassle to set up for most charities - could be a last resort for BUND Berlin though...
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November 28, 2012, 12:51:00 PM
 #1057

(ente please get your quoting right. you quote me and others but actually I said what others said and the other way round.)

Whoops, sorry.
Removed the quoted names, to be on the safe (and lazy) side ;-)

Ente
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November 28, 2012, 03:04:46 PM
 #1058

BitPay appears to be really busy, I got an answer pretty quickly last night after my contact at BUND Berlin sent an email to their media contact explaining the situation in more detail - certainly not the way things should be.

Basically BitPay is saying they pay quite a hefty fee for SEPA on their end at the moment and this won't change until they establish a bank account / presence in the EU. They've asked about how much accumulation of funds > 100 EUR BUND is willing to agree to per payout, to lower the fees.

BUND Berlin would much like to use the BitPay functionality plus look and feel - with auto currency conversion for the donor, individual hashes / QR codes etc.

Auto conversion to EUR by MtGox and then paying out SEPA sounds like a good idea - 0.6% trade fee for the conversion is acceptable, SEPA payouts are free at MtGox?

I currently see the following possible compromise: Use BitPay just to receive BTC, have them pay a BUND Berlin account at MtGox which will immediately convert to EUR and ask BUND Berlin to clear funds to their bank account regularly when the amount on there is feasable. If we manage to convince BitPay to waive fees for receiving just BTC for non-US charities that would be a great leap forward. Alternatives could be WalletBit and Paysius any other competitors? I'm not sure how stable AcceptBit.com code is yet but it's probably too much hassle to set up for most charities - could be a last resort for BUND Berlin though...

Allow me to try to do this again:

I currently see the following possible compromise: Use BitPay just to receive BTC, have them pay a BUND Berlin account at MtGox which will immediately convert to EUR and ask BUND Berlin to clear funds to their bank account regularly when the amount on there is feasable. If we manage to convince BitPay to waive fees for receiving just BTC for non-US charities that would be a great leap forward. Either BitPay waives the fees or lowers them, whereupon I will pay the difference or the entire fee. It makes no difference to me. I desire BitPay to be the liaison between BTC and fiat, regardless, with no ill feelings on my end if they can't, for whatever reason (and needs no explanation), lower/eliminate the fees.

~Bruno K~
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November 28, 2012, 04:36:42 PM
 #1059

Allow me to try to do this again:

I currently see the following possible compromise: Use BitPay just to receive BTC, have them pay a BUND Berlin account at MtGox which will immediately convert to EUR and ask BUND Berlin to clear funds to their bank account regularly when the amount on there is feasable. If we manage to convince BitPay to waive fees for receiving just BTC for non-US charities that would be a great leap forward. Either BitPay waives the fees or lowers them, whereupon I will pay the difference or the entire fee. It makes no difference to me. I desire BitPay to be the liaison between BTC and fiat, regardless, with no ill feelings on my end if they can't, for whatever reason (and needs no explanation), lower/eliminate the fees.

~Bruno K~

Bruno - sorry for not reacting to your generous offer to take over the fees! This is a great gift and I'm sure BUND will appreciate it! There are two issues at stake here: One is the Bitcoin100 initiative and the amount they'd like to donate and the fees for that the other is sustained donations by other donors in the future. Obviously we're trying to find a long lasting solution that servers all purposes best and set an example for other charities to follow up on with as little fees involved as possible. Otherwise I'm afraid they might overexcite your generosity to cover the fees.

I think we need another couple of days to get this right and I hope you don't insist in it having to be BitPay to convert to EUR for other donations besides the Bitcoin100 pledge. Chances are really good though it'll be BitPay to handle the transactions initially and in the future.
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November 29, 2012, 03:54:06 AM
 #1060

Has anyone brought up Child's Play and Desert Bus yet? I just tweeted @graham_lrr about accepting it for the event next year. No response.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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