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Author Topic: [UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Merge Mine w/BTC! - Update NOW to qt 0.11.5  (Read 1046628 times)
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BitcoinNational
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August 24, 2015, 11:34:31 AM
 #9881

It seems that the deeper you go into security you just find decreasingly severe security flaws.

Funds on Cryptsy with weak password same as your e-mail and no 2fa: 12% chance of loss (including risk of cryptsy itself being comprimised or failing).

The above with strong password different from your e-mail with 2fa: 4% chance of loss.


i'm no smarter than the average bear
but for the life of me I can't figure why the exchanges don't allow some "2fa like" security by just requiring a wallet signed message seems more elegant than having to pipe all withdraws thru an email server (hence just another layer of track and trace and potential hack in point).  Not mention time consuming ... it really seems as simple as ... IF send 'small amount' from defined address-A to defined address-B then withdraw all/some/etc. 

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August 24, 2015, 07:16:36 PM
 #9882

A wild day. Cheap Bitcoin. Cheap stocks,  and Cheap Uno.
This is the "new money" convergence we wait for in Uno land.

Added cryptothreads to the OP.


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August 24, 2015, 10:17:39 PM
 #9883

A wild day. Cheap Bitcoin. Cheap stocks,  and Cheap Uno.
This is the "new money" convergence we wait for in Uno land.

Added cryptothreads to the OP.



Thank you FallingKnife! I'll be adding more designs and other products for UNO! I believe in UNO and its future  Grin
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August 25, 2015, 07:35:44 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 07:59:36 AM by IMZ
 #9884

Hospital got Internet! What a time to be a krypto geekl

[edit] Uno holding price v. v. well on CMC.

m
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August 25, 2015, 10:01:08 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 10:28:06 AM by natmccoy
 #9885

Update on my quest for pure cold storage:

Successes

I was able to import a private key from one of my brain test wallets into the 0.10b UNO client. It took a little longer to scan than I expected but worked perfectly.

I burned Tails onto a DVD and verified the download using Kleopatra.

I was able to save a text file in the Tails 'word editing software' to a flash drive and open it in microsoft word through my normal OS, this means I will be able to save the private keys and addresses easily.

I was very impressed with Tails.

Issues

I was not able to save the paperwallet.html file anywhere using Tails, it said 'permission denied' whenever I tried to access a place to save it to. I attempted to alter the properties>permissions but didn't know what I was doing and it didn't seem to work anyway. It appears that because of the default 'amnesia' properties of Tails you need to enable 'persistence' which can only be done when Tails OS is being used from a USB drive and not from a DVD. Sigh, I just bought DVDs for this and didn't want to free up a flash drive for this. For now I will download paperwallet.html through my normal OS onto a flash drive and attempt to open it through Tails.

Security risks:

(1) My verification of the Tails download is apparently imperfect because it relies on standard HTTPS. I looked into the verification options listed here: https://tails.boum.org/doc/get/trusting_tails_signing_key/index.en.html however I'm not sure how to find a "terminal" in Windows to correlate several downloads & it sounds like a lot of effort to download it from various locations and computers. Edit: There seems to be a "terminal" in Tails, I could probably download the OS from multiple locations and devices, move them all to a flash drive and use the Tails terminal to confirm that they are identical, but again, how paranoid do I want to get?

(2) The download of the paper wallet program from cryptap.us will apparently still be vulnerable to a "man-in-the-middle attack" even when downloaded through the Tails browser.

(3) Downloading paperwallet.html through normal OS and browser without verification keys.

(4) Burning tails onto a DVD-RW which means it can be altered. I'm not sure if physical access would be required to do so, it was warned against on the Tails website but this seems like an extremely remote risk.

Seriously though, what level of paranoia are we talking here? What are the odds that somebody is intercepting connections with modified code of the unobtanium wallet generator and swapping files while avoiding a message warning me that I'm not protected by SSL?

Note: An average person reading this would probably think I'm a programmer or at least have experience with this stuff, but I'm just a normal guy with google and the help of smart people on bitcointalk. Thankfully all of this stuff is broken down into simple steps so with a little time and reading it's manageable. Though obviously most people, even most cryptocurrency users, would not bother going through this (seriously, if you had to guess what % of UNO is in proper cold storage?), so it would be nice if eventually more straight-forward cold storage programs are created for Unobtanium.

Another Question: Will the process of opening the flash drive file folder through my normal OS to access the private key word documents potentially compromise the files? I will place each key+address in its own document, however I will need to insert the flash drive whenever choosing to import one of the wallets into my client. I will also need to insert the drive when copying the files to my actual encrypted backup drives, although perhaps I can do that within Tails.

EDIT: Why was I able to save the text file to my flash drive but not the paperwallet.html file from the browser? Maybe there is a way around the persistence requirement by properly changing permissions.  Undecided

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August 25, 2015, 10:36:57 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 10:48:18 AM by BitcoinNational
 #9886

@imz ... hope ur a-OK ?

@all

Got a cryptopia.co.nz referal ID ?

PM and I'll referal for you Wink

------
re: wallets

https://www.coinwallet.co/en/home/ ... web wallets like this will likely be the kind used by the general public, then you'll have your ANDROID, then PC blockchain downloaders, then the geeks playing on linux doing command line stuff, and super geeks programing remote daemons aka bot bankers.

we'll cover them all  Wink

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August 25, 2015, 10:41:22 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 11:02:48 AM by natmccoy
 #9887

Hospital got Internet! What a time to be a krypto geekl

[edit] Uno holding price v. v. well on CMC.

m

Someone just sold another 200+ on bittrex at 0.006. Asks aren't getting cheaper because people don't want to sell this low, and bids aren't rising because people are hoping for more low dumps, which apparently they're getting. Looks like it will be 0.008 asks and 0.006 bids until the gap narrows or supply dries up once again.

The mystery bear-whale is the wild card here, wonder if that was who just sold.

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August 25, 2015, 10:46:09 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 11:51:36 AM by natmccoy
 #9888

@imz ... hope ur a-OK ?

@all

Got a cryptopia.co.nz referal ID ?

PM and I'll referal for you Wink

------
re: wallets

https://www.coinwallet.co/en/home/ ... web wallets like this will likely be the kind used by the general public, then you'll have your ANDROID, then blockchain downloaders, then the geeks playing on linux, and super geeks programing remote daemons/command line stuff.

we'll cover them all  Wink

Link sent, I didn't realize Cryptopia had a referral program, I'll add that to my twitch page.

Yay I'm a geek now!  Grin

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August 25, 2015, 11:49:12 AM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 12:13:31 PM by FallingKnife
 #9889

@IMZ, Hospital!?  Visiting I hope. If not, get well soon!! We all need you healthy.

@Natmcoy, why not just print the paper wallet, instead of saving it as bits? That would be most secure; keep the keys entirely off online, off device.  Perhaps no print drivers for tails?

"Someone just sold another 200+ on bittrex at 0.006."
I take each dump in stride. Trading is a game of deception.
Sometimes accumulators will fake weakness by selling to themselves at the ask.  Something to keep in mind, especially on Bittrex.  If big buys appear and are quickly filled, thats usually whats going on imo. 
This dump actually started at .00602 and took out some support, but then again, most of the buy support came immediately back at .00602 through .006, so makes me lean more toward fakery on this one

reasons for faking volume or dumps:
panic weak hands into selling
pick up the market volume to attract attention
manipulate the market cap on CMC by over weighting by volume the low price on a specific exchange
fix Bittrex "low volume" warning (not present at the moment, btw)

My paranoia says someone with a few btc has gone to a lot of work to bring the market down for accumulation, and when they're done it will head back up. Best thing I've discovered to do in these situations, since I'm long term Uno, is to just slowly average my price down. I'm not too worried, because there just isn't any serious amount of Uno for sale below .009. We've all been trained to sit and wait for dumps, and a chasm has opened between buy/sell.

Uno is primed right now for a pump group. It has to been on every PnD group's screen. I wouldn't be surprised to see a pump start soon.




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August 25, 2015, 12:08:31 PM
 #9890

Update on my quest for pure cold storage:

Successes

I was able to import a private key from one of my brain test wallets into the 0.10b UNO client. It took a little longer to scan than I expected but worked perfectly.

I burned Tails onto a DVD and verified the download using Kleopatra.

I was able to save a text file in the Tails 'word editing software' to a flash drive and open it in microsoft word through my normal OS, this means I will be able to save the private keys and addresses easily.

I was very impressed with Tails.

Issues

I was not able to save the paperwallet.html file anywhere using Tails, it said 'permission denied' whenever I tried to access a place to save it to. I attempted to alter the properties>permissions but didn't know what I was doing and it didn't seem to work anyway. It appears that because of the default 'amnesia' properties of Tails you need to enable 'persistence' which can only be done when Tails OS is being used from a USB drive and not from a DVD. Sigh, I just bought DVDs for this and didn't want to free up a flash drive for this. For now I will download paperwallet.html through my normal OS onto a flash drive and attempt to open it through Tails.
Hmmm... Maybe "/tmp" in the tails live OS is writeable(?). If not, couldn't you use your flash drive as writable storage in tails or was that not writable either? Another option would be to browse to the site, but before you generate the keys by moving the mouse, disconnect the network cable/Wifi and do not connect it again until after you reboot since paperwallet.html does not need a network connection to generate the keys. That way the entropy happens after there is no networking.
Quote


Security risks:

(1) My verification of the Tails download is apparently imperfect because it relies on standard HTTPS. I looked into the verification options listed here: https://tails.boum.org/doc/get/trusting_tails_signing_key/index.en.html however I'm not sure how to find a "terminal" in Windows to correlate several downloads & it sounds like a lot of effort to download it from various locations and computers. Edit: There seems to be a "terminal" in Tails, I could probably download the OS from multiple locations and devices, move them all to a flash drive and use the Tails terminal to confirm that they are identical, but again, how paranoid do I want to get?

(2) The download of the paper wallet program from cryptap.us will apparently still be vulnerable to a "man-in-the-middle attack" even when downloaded through the Tails browser.
Probably not, that would require the ssl CA certs installed for the browser in the tails .iso file to be compromised when you downloaded it. Certainly possible, but not likely.
Quote
(3) Downloading paperwallet.html through normal OS and browser without verification keys.

(4) Burning tails onto a DVD-RW which means it can be altered. I'm not sure if physical access would be required to do so, it was warned against on the Tails website but this seems like an extremely remote risk.

Seriously though, what level of paranoia are we talking here? What are the odds that somebody is intercepting connections with modified code of the unobtanium wallet generator and swapping files while avoiding a message warning me that I'm not protected by SSL?

Note: An average person reading this would probably think I'm a programmer or at least have experience with this stuff, but I'm just a normal guy with google and the help of smart people on bitcointalk. Thankfully all of this stuff is broken down into simple steps so with a little time and reading it's manageable. Though obviously most people, even most cryptocurrency users, would not bother going through this (seriously, if you had to guess what % of UNO is in proper cold storage?), so it would be nice if eventually more straight-forward cold storage programs are created for Unobtanium.

Another Question: Will the process of opening the flash drive file folder through my normal OS to access the private key word documents potentially compromise the files? I will place each key+address in its own document, however I will need to insert the flash drive whenever choosing to import one of the wallets into my client. I will also need to insert the drive when copying the files to my actual encrypted backup drives, although perhaps I can do that within Tails.
Certainly a risk if your OS is compromised. You could perhaps purchase an cheap (USB only, no wireless) printer to print out the keys in Tails (find one with compatibility with Tails) then destroy the printer.
Quote

EDIT: Why was I able to save the text file to my flash drive but not the paperwallet.html file from the browser? Maybe there is a way around the persistence requirement by properly changing permissions.  Undecided


website | PGP fingerprint: 692C 0756 E57D 2FA1 7601 3729 010B 717F 231C E7AA | BTC Address: 1CrYPTB1o7QWc8hXqBMP2LtAJh1VMtTFBh
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August 25, 2015, 12:14:12 PM
 #9891

...

https://www.coinwallet.co/en/home/ ... web wallets like this will likely be the kind used by the general public, ...

I hope not. coinwallet.co should not be used to store money as they hold the private keys to the web wallets and can walk away any time. That's no different than an exchange. We need to remember that if you aren't the sole owner of the private keys, they aren't your coins...

website | PGP fingerprint: 692C 0756 E57D 2FA1 7601 3729 010B 717F 231C E7AA | BTC Address: 1CrYPTB1o7QWc8hXqBMP2LtAJh1VMtTFBh
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August 25, 2015, 12:30:36 PM
 #9892

not to be 'that guy' but the day i spend more than $10 on a t-shirt is the day someones hacked my account/stolen my debit card
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August 25, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
Last edit: August 25, 2015, 01:05:18 PM by BitcoinNational
 #9893

...

https://www.coinwallet.co/en/home/ ... web wallets like this will likely be the kind used by the general public, ...

I hope not. coinwallet.co should not be used to store money as they hold the private keys to the web wallets and can walk away any time. That's no different than an exchange. We need to remember that if you aren't the sole owner of the private keys, they aren't your coins...

Cryptapus you have one of the better web wallet platforms/tech so we'll be sure to promote yours too Smiley

But I am still sure that general public will choose convenient over safe.

The only point is that UNO has to cover the full suite of wallets ... we already have a few brilliant brains that are going to demand some cool features under the hood, we likely can hold a strong position in the Android market, I also think we can capture a position in B2B if we craft some smart payroll clients, and we best be informed on the safest web wallets to suggest should the mom and pop types show up.



re: cryptothreads

Yeah I am more thrift store under $5 when it comes to T-shirts (does that make me a hipster?)

But I am still delighted to have cryptothreads on board the bus.  In fact if there's a decent business plan propose why not help bank roll part of the operation, as a beta FINTECH project?



re: the dumps

Knife play that 'I'm Happy' song.  Cheap uno = Smiley

I am not sure if the PnD groups will go after un ... because their whole game is about holding a big stake (accumulate) and controling the market ... un is to tough for their game ... mostly cuz we already trade +10 markets, maybe more.

Last. Hell BTC is in the dumps.  I haven't seen any coin do well here in August.  My opinion is we are ahead in the down cycle, will be ahead in the next up cycle, un is starting to become a very reliable pre- indicator.

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IMZ
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August 25, 2015, 02:07:56 PM
 #9894

" . . . just slowly average my price down."

But Uno is a b s o l u t e l y the only crypto I'd do it with. No muckin' around, me, in coming months. I'm gonna both buy and USE Uno as big time as I can.

And 'GFC Two'? I put my head on the block:

this is not a drill

[EDIT] Well said about supporting Cryptothreads, B.N.! I will buy a T-shirt for me and one for Edgar. (I bet he doesn't remember we had 20 Uno -- on the Guild -- as a fund to help him sell his stuff.)
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August 25, 2015, 03:46:26 PM
 #9895

Quote

re: cryptothreads

Yeah I am more thrift store under $5 when it comes to T-shirts (does that make me a hipster?)

But I am still delighted to have cryptothreads on board the bus.  In fact if there's a decent business plan propose why not help bank roll part of the operation, as a beta FINTECH project?


No problem and totally get it! I'm usually the same way. I was building cryptothreads as a full-proof way of accepting all kinds of alt-coins to help give them a spending economy. I love crypto and I love UNO. I'm hoping to add more stuff also. Good point re: a FINTECH project . I don't know where it will go , but maybe  it could be some aspect that helps people get crypto so fiat to get uno and a t-shirt. I don't know there are many ways of doing this and looking forward to being part of all this. Thanks for the kind words!
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August 25, 2015, 03:47:14 PM
 #9896

not to be 'that guy' but the day i spend more than $10 on a t-shirt is the day someones hacked my account/stolen my debit card

Totally get it!  Grin
Mostly doing this for people who have some UNO to actually spend it if they want.
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August 25, 2015, 06:20:25 PM
 #9897

...

https://www.coinwallet.co/en/home/ ... web wallets like this will likely be the kind used by the general public, ...

I hope not. coinwallet.co should not be used to store money as they hold the private keys to the web wallets and can walk away any time. That's no different than an exchange. We need to remember that if you aren't the sole owner of the private keys, they aren't your coins...

I have already designed a system and written proof of concept tests to add user level private key security to coinwallet.co. So users will own their keys. Slightly different approach. But basically the same result as blockchain.info type system.

Busy with non-crypto stuff at the moment, but when I get some time...

Until then coinwallet.co is not going anywhere.

Having said that I do not suggest storing anything more than a small amount on coinwallet.co, nothing better than your own encrypted wallet on your own device.

And whats with the recent UNO price drop, is everyone waiting for the next BTC rally?  Cheesy



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August 25, 2015, 09:34:32 PM
 #9898

Thank you for the help everyone. I think I will try to disconnect from the internet after opening the wallet generator as cryptapus suggested. I'm assuming I will need to close the browser, reconnect, and reload the page for each new address generated, that's not a big deal though.

I don't have a printer and don't really want to buy a disposable one just for this. I will attempt to save directly to my encrypted drives through Tails and I will hand-write the keys as a triple backup, I'll just take the time to be certain I recorded every key perfectly.

I'll update again if there is new info. I hope this discussion will help others in the future.

I'll donate a little UNO to cryptapus soon, he's been a big help and runs a great site.

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August 26, 2015, 01:08:27 AM
Last edit: August 26, 2015, 01:29:08 AM by sloopy
 #9899

IMZ I hope you are doing well my friend. Take it easy and stay safe.
Mr. Charlie it is great to see you back. and for all you guys my pledges still stand, I keep my commitments handy.

I received some gorgeous UNO Silver bars. I also received a very cool Goxxed again coin for preordering / paying, and it was well worth it. I can say without a doubt receiving these bars has pleased me very much. I've considered silver bullion purchasing for weight. I want the purest silver bullion for the least amount of money and i don't care how pretty it is.
These bars have spoiled me because they already weigh well over an ounce they are captivating with simplicity and a uniqueness which grabs my attention. I'm just sat there with my teenage daughters rattling on about Uno, these bars, the great fire sales here lately and picking up more.

I ordered them their own stick miners and we each get one to mine what and where we wish. While stick miners never ROI, they are a fantastic way to teach someone how crypto works. We are a competitive 3 person family, the two girls and I, and we will be seeing who can farm the most uno with their stick miner. Even better, is if / when they grow bored, the miners are all mine! muwhahahaha my evil plan will come to fruition! heh j-k i hope they do not get bored with it, crypto is the future no matter what anyone thinks. It is the way of all future currency and stores of wealth.

On to other subjects:
Tails is great for what you are doing.

The part you read regarding persistence is Tails will create a place on your writable device (hard drive, flash drive, etc) which will retain anything saved there every time Tails is loaded.

I use a Flash device for tails and have persistence password protected. I open it when the laptop is offline.
I use paper wallets for cold storage and save wallet.dats as a hot wallet scenario.

I believe like most others that the only real way to handle crypto is with you controlling your own private keys and no one else in the world having access to them. In that department, I will do everything possible to make that an absolute.

At the same time I want my convenience so I do throw a little coin in places I can access quickly with the understanding in my mind that money can be gone in an instant. I simply do not keep a large amount there. I do not keep large amounts of uno anywhere near a pc which is online. By the time I felt 95% confident my machine(s) were not infected with something I would have to start over again. I assume they are all infected and working from that viewpoint makes life easier, in my opinion.

I keep looking at hardware wallets, but both open source and closed source worry me for obvious reasons.

This:
http://www.keepkey.com/

Looks very interesting... and states it handles Alts and I understand Uno is extremely special but I think to them that means uno so to me they mean it is made for uno! and is based on the Trezor.
I do not like the fact that it comes with a USB cable. I wish it had a replaceable cable with a solid connection point. Maybe something you could unclamp to replace the cable, but otherwise it has a pocket or something to keep the cable with the unit. I do not like keeping up with cables.

No price yet, and that means it isn't going to be inexpensive, but at $125 a pop for a Trezor, how inexpensive do we require our crypto hardware wallet to be, and still be useful.

I would have to buy two of anything similar to Trezor, or Keepkey, so $250.00
I have read about the Trezor until my eyes bled, it seems very secure, but I do not think I could ever store everything on any single device. I would still probably use it as a hot wallet, but keep a little more that I would on a web wallet. Uno and Fiat can buy some security at this point, but it hasn't reached secure enough and convenient.
Being able to trust a device which sends and receives like a simplified phone application on your device would be optimal. A quick send / receive / amount / shows confirmations. Some kind of read only mode and you can unlock a password protected area with a special file system kind of thing. Easy to defeat keyloggers by randomizing the orders of characters you press with a finger using an on-screen keyboard the way the keepkey does with it's version of a numeric keypad. So you click the numbers for your pin and the keylogger doesn't have a clue what you are entering, besides it would be a pretty sophisticated task to get a keylogger on any kind of trezor-like device to begin with.

Unless you were able to hack the firmware and convince people to install it the Trezor looks to be the best thing you can buy today. Even then, you are trusting the developers. They could easily have many people updating firmware, or even program an autoupdate of the firmware.
Otherwise for someone to steal your keys they would have to reverse engineer the thing, be physically with you, and get your trezor from you. Unfortunately then, they would have to stop you from transferring your funds away from your backup device before they had time to do so.

I think it is pretty safe, but you are still trusting your keys, albeit I believe the odds are about as low as anyone could get in purchasing a device for crypto storage at this point. Slush has a good reputation except for his recent clobbering over the bitcoin XT thing.

I am pro UNO! XT and Core figure the rest out for us Smiley
I would like to hear the opinion of anyone with the knowledge to know facts regarding the core vs XT issue affecting uno in any technical manner. I do not see it as an issue, but I think it is good to have confirmed by a coder. My understanding from  he research I've done is XT is using the core release of btc and adding some code for a few items which have nothing to do with merge mining, and in that vein it doesn't matter what happens and uno is gold either way. This being from a technical perspective. Politically and how you view market trends may or may not be different, I simply do not have an opinion at this point. I think it would be a good impact on uno from the simple perspective of people will look for an established coin if they are looking for anything crypto, it is un.

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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August 26, 2015, 01:35:10 AM
 #9900

just checking in quickly.  Good to see that the Cryptsy wallet is getting liquidated a bit more.

@IMZ I hope all is well sir, that you're visit to the hospital is routine.

Keep buying the dumps from the dumbsters.... Cheesy

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