ㅤ

[o_e_l_e_o]

It is when you link those accounts to a real identity. This is the definition of doxxing.

[BlackHatCoiner]

A Wasabi developer exposing the Samourai developer using sock puppets to deceive social media users out of their Bitcoins is not "doxxing".

Of course. Just as denying to mix SBF's coins isn't censorship, because he's a criminal! 

All three of you are advertising custodial mixers, which means you have to engage in deception to keep people from using non custodial privacy solutions in order for people to use the services you are shilling.

What a satisfactory conclusion. I'm quite acknowledging the downsides of custodial mixers, though. Forfeiting ownership of your coins, first and foremost. In comparison with you, who's avoiding the outright lies, the evidence from address reuse, the partnership with blockchain analysis firm, etc., the list is quite endless.

WabiSabi is a coinjoin protocol, your idea that using coinjoin makes you a supporter of mass surveillance is literally backwards.  Coinjoins prevent mass surveillance.

WabiSabi, at the time writing this, can only be used practically via zkSNACKs' coordinator, which is supporter of mass surveillance.

[Kruw]

It is when you link those accounts to a real identity. This is the definition of doxxing.

All the examples provided in the proof link TDev to FoneBTC, there is no linking of those two pseudonyms accounts to any real identities: https://nopara73.medium.com/samouraileaks-samouraidevs-sockpuppet-exposed-7ce654b92c0b

Of course. Just as denying to mix SBF's coins isn't censorship, because he's a criminal!  

Denying SBF's coins is censorship, and he is a criminal. This response about SBF has nothing to do with the proof about Samourai's deceptive practices against the Bitcoin community.  Don't you think that it's really dishonest for Samourai's developer to use multiple social media accounts to do things like collect BTC from giveaways multiple times?  And respond vouching for his own service?

What a satisfactory conclusion. I'm quite acknowledging the downsides of custodial mixers, though. Forfeiting ownership of your coins, first and foremost. In comparison with you, who's avoiding the outright lies, the evidence from address reuse, the partnership with blockchain analysis firm, etc., the list is quite endless.

The WabiSabi coinjoin protocol has nothing to do with "outright lies", "evidence from address reuse" "the partnership with blockchain analysis firm", it's just a way anyone can make their Bitcoins private without anyone (including the coinjoin coordinator) being able to determine which outputs belong to which inputs: https://mempool.space/tx/0529be836bb49d14f1e4462012c32248b64145c0fb257fe300499e9bd76f0893

I keep posting examples of WabiSabi coinjoins being used to make coins private in a non custodial way, yet you are still advertising custodial services that can deanonymize their users and steal their money instead.

WabiSabi, at the time writing this, can only be used practically via zkSNACKs' coordinator, which is supporter of mass surveillance.

This isn't true, the WabiSabi coordinator zkSNACKs uses is completely open source, it can be enabled in one click and used by anyone: https://i.imgur.com/V4K7Xkj.png

[o_e_l_e_o]

Endless whataboutism.

I don't care if someone's a criminal - they shouldn't be censored.
I don't care if someone sockpuppets - they shouldn't be doxxed.
I don't care about your semantics about WabiSabi and zkSNACKs - they are owned and operated by the same people, people who actively fund blockchain analysis.
I don't really care about Samourai either - I am in no way affiliated with them. Show me evidence (as I've asked for many times) of ongoing address reuse and I'll call Samourai out for it too. But unless you can, I'll continue to recommend them and JoinMarket over your mass surveillance, permissioned, pro-censorship, anti-fungibility, scam.

We will never agree on anything here, because people here generally believe in privacy, whereas Wasabi and their team believe in anything for the sake of profit.

[BlackHatCoiner]

This response about SBF has nothing to do with the proof about Samourai's deceptive practices against the Bitcoin community.

It has to do with putting ethics above the protocol. You would deny SBF's coins, because you find it so morally unacceptable to have him conceal his activity, that you'd give up Bitcoin principles to have him censored.  

It's a good analogy, because you carry the same shitty principles in real life. The moment someone did something you disapproved of in Twitter, you publicly doxxed them. You could have respected their right to privacy (as pro-privacy you call yourselves), but you did not.

The WabiSabi coinjoin protocol has nothing to do with "outright lies"

Same strawman. Avoiding the essence, and repeating horseshit.

[Kruw]

I don't care if someone sockpuppets - they shouldn't be doxxed.

The moment someone did something you disapproved of in Twitter, you publicly doxxed them. You could have respected their right to privacy (as pro-privacy you call yourselves), but you did not.

What "doxxing" are you talking about?  If you bothered to read the source, you would see proof of Tdev being linked with his sock puppet FoneBTC, there is no "doxxing": https://nopara73.medium.com/samouraileaks-samouraidevs-sockpuppet-exposed-7ce654b92c0b

[o_e_l_e_o]

What "doxxing" are you talking about?  If you bothered to read the source, you would see proof of Tdev being linked with his sock puppet FoneBTC, there is no "doxxing": https://nopara73.medium.com/samouraileaks-samouraidevs-sockpuppet-exposed-7ce654b92c0b

I've been trying not to mention it, but since you keep repeating the same lie over and over - the real name of one of the Samourai devs is literally in the screenshots on that page you keep sharing.

Your disregard for other people's privacy is astonishing.

[Kruw]

What "doxxing" are you talking about?  If you bothered to read the source, you would see proof of Tdev being linked with his sock puppet FoneBTC, there is no "doxxing": https://nopara73.medium.com/samouraileaks-samouraidevs-sockpuppet-exposed-7ce654b92c0b

I've been trying not to mention it, but since you keep repeating the same lie over and over - the real name of one of the Samourai devs is literally in the screenshots on that page you keep sharing.

Your disregard for other people's privacy is astonishing.

Huh?  How would anyone know what the real name of one of the Samourai devs is in one of the screenshots?  Are you saying that the sock puppet was interacting with the developer's real identity as well as his pseudonymous identity?

[20kevin20]

Wow, what the hell is going on? I’ve been on and off crypto for a while but never expected this disappointment to hit me once I’m back. Wasabi turned 180 and said f*ck you to privacy? Doxxing, working with blockchain analysis, WTF is going on

Ironically, I’m pretty sure I still have a Wasabi installed on one of my PCs. Glad I didn’t keep paying them to go through analysis filters lol, this is nuts.

Huh?  How would anyone know what the real name of one of the Samourai devs is in one of the screenshots?

If it’s the screenshot I think @o_e_l_e_o is talking about (and I’m pretty sure it is), it’s quite obvious lol

[nopara73]

Could you publicly say that WasabiWallet is still technically permissionless and trustless? Because I believe some people are still promoting it in that way.

Without exception, every single feature of Wasabi Wallet is trustless.  
Although, much like any other non-custodial Bitcoin wallet, Wasabi is also permissionless, its coinjoin feature represents an exception to that.

[nopara73]

Regarding the conversation that's happening in parallel. Let's not pretend the scamourais are in any way pseudonymous. Among other things they were giving interviews with their real identity to CoinDesk, the largest publication of the space: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/06/03/samourai-wallet-raises-first-funding-round-in-fight-against-bitcoin-surveillance/

[o_e_l_e_o]

Although, much like any other non-custodial Bitcoin wallet, Wasabi is also permissionless, its coinjoin feature represents an exception to that.

Lol. "Wasabi is permissionless except for our core feature!" You might as well say Coinbase is trustless except for depositing coins.

Let's not pretend the scamourais are in any way pseudonymous. Among other things they were giving interviews with their real identity to CoinDesk, the largest publication of the space:

This has already been addressed:

Yes, but however Samurai CEO himself gave an interview in Coindesk four years ago

Irrelevant. The individuals concerned do not want their identities shared. Previous mistakes in leaking private information do not give other people permission to share that information as widely as possible. If you had accidentally linked your forum name to your real life identity on some other site, you would be rightly very angry if I started plastering that information all over the forum.

As I said above, the landing page of wasabiwallet.io says "Privacy is your ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world". Sharing information about someone they do not wish to be shared violates this completely. It exposes Wasabi's complete hypocrisy and complete disregard for privacy.

Also:

He claims it's not doxxing because the information was published in a magazine. He fails to mention the article came out (June 2019) after HE dropped dox the first time (Apr 2019)

This is unacceptable. Doxxing your competition is evil. Gaslighting everyone about it is next level

I honestly struggle to fathom how you can say you are the "best privacy solution" in bitcoin in one breath, and the double down on doxxing someone the next. Truly staggering hypocrisy.

[NotATether]

Wow, what the hell is going on? I’ve been on and off crypto for a while but never expected this disappointment to hit me once I’m back. Wasabi turned 180 and said f*ck you to privacy? Doxxing, working with blockchain analysis, WTF is going on

Very briefly, wasabi blacklisting hit the crypto community like a lead balloon and as you can see, nopara73 and the rest of Wasabi/zkSNACKs teams are doing damage control on all social media sites and Bitcointalk while bizarrely trying to bring up Samourai Wallet and its devs to the standoff (despite not contributing at all in the making of Wasabi 2.0).

[nopara73]

The interview wasn't the first time they publicly revealed their identity. Your allegation of doxxing is merely pointing to a public company registry where they've also disclosed their identities. By that point, Keonne and Hill had already abandoned their pseudonyms. They revealed this in many places, such as UASF groups, but they made a U-turn after people like me and Mandrik who used to work with them started linking their scammer past to their scammer present. Other than establishing evidence of sockpuppetry you can take, for example, the time when they worked at Blockchain info and seeded the Bitcoin wallet from random.org via HTTP, resulting in many of their users losing money: https://nopara73.medium.com/samouraileaks-part-3-is-random-org-random-enough-35704796ae93

This situation is shameful for multiple reasons:

1. I wasn't doxxing, but they seem to believe that if they shout loudly enough, they can make it appear true.
2. Even in a hypothetical universe where I had accessed private information and published it, if that disclosure had helped expose fraudulent conduct, it would have been justified.
3. In fact, since we're on the subject, my parents' address is being disseminated all over the Internet. One can only guess who is responsible for that.

There's one last thing to address though:

If from tomorrow Craig Wright would want you to start calling him SDevS, would you do so and start shaming everyone else who wouldn't?

[nopara73]

while bizarrely trying to bring up Samourai Wallet and its devs to the standoff

The ones who brought them up are the ones who're wrongfully accusing me with a conduct of doxxing.

[NotATether]

while bizarrely trying to bring up Samourai Wallet and its devs to the standoff

The ones who brought them up are the ones who're wrongfully accusing me with a conduct of doxxing.

I don't get why this is such a big deal to you. If samourai devs did something bad, what has it got to do with wasabi wallet? Are they making personal threats to you or the like?

At the end of the day, just put it all behind you and continue making software that people like. This back-and-forward mudslinging on Twitter is not getting you guys anywhere.

[Kruw]

I don't get why this is such a big deal to you. If samourai devs did something bad, what has it got to do with wasabi wallet?

No one wants to talk about Samourai except o_e_l_e_o, who is OBSESSED with promoting the narrative that the proof revealing Samourai's deceptive use of sock puppets on social media is "doxxing people you disagree with":

Also, nice of you to disappear for two months after I made the following post.

On another note, and I am deliberately not going to link to any of the tweets, but in the last 48 hours there has been a bunch of Twitter drama due to Wasabi publicly doxxing their competitors.

Says it all really. The landing page of wasabiwallet.io says in big font right at the start "Privacy is your ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world". And then the Wasabi devs completely ignore that statement and start doxxing people who disagree with them. Imagine trying to pass yourself off as pro-privacy as you fund blockchain analysis and dox people you don't like? Absolutely despicable behavior, and should show everyone just where the priorities of Wasabi lie. They don't care in the slightest about your privacy.

Can't wait for our resident shill to come and tell us how doxxing people you don't like is actually fine.

The source referred to by the false "doxxing" accusation can be found here, showing Samourai's use of "FoneBTC" as a sock puppet account - https://nopara73.medium.com/samouraileaks-samouraidevs-sockpuppet-exposed-7ce654b92c0b

I assume you changed the subject because you have no response to this, just as you've dodged the question about why you think it's acceptable to dox people you disagree with.

At the end of the day, just put it all behind you and continue making software that people like.

The software is already done: Bitcoin privacy has been solved by WabiSabi coinjoins, that's why o_e_l_e_o is so mad about the addresses being linked together from his Whirlpool coinjoin example -

Post the tx ID of any Whirlpool transaction and I will show you the tx0 transaction that was created by each of the new entrants.

Ok, here's one: https://mempool.space/tx/ed3131b544fbf00a71709942e483b55e629312ecb181e6e819409f419ee0d226

Where exactly is the privacy loss for new entrants, splitting a single UTXO in to multiple UTXOs to join the pool?

Okay, here's all the payments that can be tracked from the two new participants of the Whirlpool coinjoin transaction:

Entrant 1: bc1q03c0443ausjjdxl2h6ud5m8c0dux0zyg3dqdj7 created 0.00170417 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1q3fduld0l3r8nclyt5p3r7ak675tekurstn55tl.  Since this UTXO is not private, the sats were marked as unspendable and have not been recovered by the wallet owner  

Entrant 2: bc1qzc8zku26ej337huw5dlt390cy2r9kgnq7dhtys created 0.00191247 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1qjlltxr443uy236wl4xhpxlr6dgsu0zltlv3m44. This UTXO was used in a second tx0 transaction, creating a huge trail of transactions that could be traced to each other  

The 2nd tx0 transaction created 0.00076348 BTC unmixed change which was sent to bc1qehd7gy8rza9mnzm9wnfjhgw82rp47wmqt7vpgy

Since this unmixed change is below the .001 pool minimum, it was consolidated in a 3rd tx0 with 3 other addresses owned by the same wallet:
31x8GPqrhzdaxiBJa9N5UisuoxbX1rAnHa
16Gw5WKjbxZmg1zhZQs19Sf61fbV2xGujx
3LZtsJfUjiV5EZkkG1fwGEpTe2QEa7CNeY

The 3rd tx0 transaction created .00200317 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1q2p7gdtyahct8rdjs2khwf0sffl64qe896ya2y5
This was spent in a 0.00190000 payment to 3B8cRYc3W5jHeS3pkepwDePUmePBoEwyp1 (a reused address)

That payment left .00008553 in change that was tracked to 3Dh7R7xoKMVfLCcAtVDyhJ66se82twyZSn and consolidated with two other inputs in a 4th tx0 transaction:
bc1qeuh6sds8exm54yscrupdk03jxphw8qwzdtxgde
3ByChGBFshzGUE5oip8YYVEZDaCP2bcBmZ

This 4th tx0 created .00533406 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1qzh699s75smwukg9jcanwnlkmkn38r79ataagd9 which was consolidated with 3 more addresses into a 5th tx0:
3F2qiWQJKQjF7XFjEo8FUYP3AU5AC6RqX8
3HAYYVKUpYbr2ARMdZJr9yVu8xi8UcxtPz
3GQtwwRK31wwCc22q6WS5sCgixUHsG5KaT

The 5th tx0 created 0.00058494 BTC in unmixed change that was sent to bc1qvh2zjcwwkj9y70xulla2semvlav3lty0p3l3w3
This was spent in a .00047290 payment to bc1qvzg8jq6wqtr5navn4e3ps4qrkk9r6n4h98gjck

That payment left .00008411 in change that was tracked to bc1qg6j0f0wfhpktt2l8uzdn48ct3um2xyur40eyzd and consolidated with another input into a 6th tx0 transaction:
31iZLXWfoywhuMZTPGxTkpzphzh2NXshpP

The 6th tx0 created .00753775 in unmixed change that was tracked to bc1qgfll2apc27yct6h2c8r8wq4kqhxjsfrudhhn5q
This was spent in a .00737000 payment to bc1q5emzer2t0sq5dez0zsrqgh6scvwn0n24xsladp (a reused address)

This payment left 0.00010896 BTC in change which has not been spent yet, but the payment only took place 11 days ago, so I assume it will eventually be spent, allowing the Whirlpool user to be tracked even further.

That's the reason he is flooding this thread with false accusations since he already failed to trace WabiSabi coinjoins like he claimed he could:

You are just posting nonsense trying to distract from the fact I proved you wrong by posting a non whale non matching output that you were not able to trace: bc1qrmmypw3g2ds4aqgh3nqc59qhdp9qk779x2zlru

So your argument boils down to "I can show you some examples which cannot be deanonymized, therefore all your examples of Wasabi coinjoins failing spectacularly are moot". Seriously?

Hey guys, only 5% of our cars randomly explode and kill the driver, so they are perfectly safe!

Okay then, I'll call your bluff again- Here's 20 non whale non matching outputs from WabiSabi coinjoins, try to identify the inputs owned by even a single one of the 20 outputs (which would be 5%):

01 bc1q032caguldmlrrztmrwhv5wqveyywdu2rtmd740
02 bc1q6vgwhsfkg343mmh27vc6prg3clsd4xu3p68vyd
03 bc1qre8jjpu8p9taw8j44r39z56vfr4sw64d4wyaj4
04 bc1qarharg76gfcrvskfw46f67vtqzd6hxa9pnspp5
05 bc1q4sexgt2p96x3ytnjjttp59w6mkj00kedal3xze
06 bc1qwrf50wpjws5mhdg2rhdu5hy7nqdtl8z94lp75n
07 bc1qz0tal2udfpr20x793fdw6v8lzp2qze7z5zje64
08 bc1qqw2h7fa3n8vyxgqru664fmft2trl9sqh9kz3fp
09 bc1qsud748whmum4gpt2qu52z8gqlgzcjyvhd5w2a5
10 bc1qctvxddyvxupjj8w82m8w5grzn59arstlrnaauw
11 bc1qq2fl05cmmhkr3pzg8elyr859v2fpcltynrk2j5
12 bc1qvwkrd3aecrvql5j8mqkmketvw6g6qwzt4juprq
13 bc1qhc2565fac4lrgyfq6n0mzc0l86jeptfnv2um9x
14 bc1qat6445gutyl3qdz3zhmdng9cdt92mevjlvaljs
15 bc1qk5f3mz0fetccey4nyyjedlrmqstkz2hmun96ha
16 bc1q4tpvm378a9d4n0xcnjtwfwujtr8eatjzvru8dx
17 bc1qd5epyjpj6vuejdppj24wew5n4n5rzepjx2xnay
18 bc1qgafud63me5mffn00g90ch08jjn5h20umzwxd62
19 bc1q5u3f2ldrtqa7ea79a8hcd8kssgw2gmalk4uej9
20 bc1qa6n7g7r4j3nv78gzgzmuvg56em4guppckqpz7r

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

This is insane logic. The majority of people in the world have publicly revealed their identity in some form or another in the past. That doesn't mean that sharing and spreading that information which they do not wish to be shared is now morally fine.


I'm not even going to bother responding to Kruw anymore since he consistently ignores any requests for evidence and just repeats the same nonsense which has been addressed by me and others in this thread a dozen times already. For reference, my replies to the three points he just made:
Doxxing - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62418800#msg62418800
Whirlpool example - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62413682#msg62413682
Wasabi example - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62085316#msg62085316

I don't get why this is such a big deal to you. If samourai devs did something bad, what has it got to do with wasabi wallet?

They don't have any real selling points for their own product, given that they've completely sold out their users' privacy by cooperating with and actively funding blockchain analysis. All they have left is attacking their competitors.


Also, since you guys brought up sockpuppet accounts, I'll just leave this here: https://nitter.it/i/status/1661394653365641216

[20kevin20]

The software is already done: Bitcoin privacy has been solved by WabiSabi coinjoins

You’re giving me strong Orwellian vibes.

Bitcoin’s privacy has been solved as much as the EU will find a solution to prviacy using CBDCs. There’s gonna be no privacy.

I used to be an avid user of your software. Please explain, how is Wasabi a solution to privacy if they’re cooperating with analysis tools? WTF it’s like telling me you’re giving me privacy in the changing room but someone has to watch me through a piece of glass to make sure I’m not stealing. Orwell, is that you?

[Kruw]

I already proved you were lying about being able identify the outputs of a WabiSabi coinjoin, remember?

I have already shown you blockchain evidence of the following:

Wasabi coinjoins creating outputs which can be 100% linked to a specific input: https://mempool.space/tx/dae13b2d015587a3033d7ab7949a7efa6d6ed7aa782168b0651ab37a2d8390f8

...this transaction isn't a WabiSabi coinjoin 

The software is already done: Bitcoin privacy has been solved by WabiSabi coinjoins

Bitcoin’s privacy has been solved as much as the EU will find a solution to prviacy using CBDCs. There’s gonna be no privacy.

If you think you can prove my claim about Bitcoin privacy being solved by the WabiSabi coinjoin protocol wrong, then try to link the outputs to any inputs of this transaction yourself: https://mempool.space/tx/d465033214fd2309dcce5a90c45fcaa788aa4394ee36debe07aad8d8a37907d2