Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[o48o]

Ahaha, your "calculated deal" to join NATO was made by your ex-prime minister's rabid cunt, contrary to public opinion, which at that time was against it. That's all there is to know in Finnish democracy. When choosing the lesser evil, remember that you have chosen evil anyway.
-cut-

Level of maturity here hints me i am not talking with an adult so i'll watch closer what i say.
Yeah, we all were against the nato for a while until Putin showed his true skin.

contrary to public opinion, which at that time was against it

This sentence is contradicting itself. Are you saying that we really didn't want to join nato but publc opinion is that we did?
Yeah, we have few people who didn't want to join and like in democracy no one is shutting their voices down. No one was canceling those tiny protests either. I for one didn't want to join before this. I know one guy who didn't want to join and i totally respect his opinion but majority of finnish people wanted to join as fast as humanly possible. It actually united Finland more then ever.

Funny how little you know about our politics, i mean you live right beside us. Could it in any way be that you have been listening to trolls instead of real news?

And yeah, big win for you that we chose LESSER evil then the dictatorship you are living in. I really do feel sorry for you about that.

Data manipulation and fraud most likely unless the Fins are a lot more suicidal and stupid than I would have thought.  The 'polls' always show what the polling entities are getting paid to show in corrupt scientismistic societies.  The problem became much worse as the WEF 'young global leaders' (or 'young global scapegoats' or 'young global degenerates' or all three) matriculated and were installed into their assigned places as cabinet members and heads of state.

Data manipulation? You know nothing about Yle or finnish politics. Take a look of any list of least corrupt countries.

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[TwitchySeal]

Data manipulation? You know nothing about Yle or finnish politics. Take a look of any list of least corrupt countries.

Here's one: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022

Finland actually lost their spot as the least corrupt country in 2021 to Denmark.  They're tied for second with New Zealand now.

Russia is tied for the 137th least corrupt Nation, slightly less corrupt than Kyrgyzstan and Pakistan.  Well done Putin.

Now we get to hear from the conspiritards about how the list must be NATO funded and published by a bunch of Jewish transgender Nazis that enjoy recreational abortions.

[swogerino]

In other words, you yourself admit that democracy cannot defend itself by democratic means. A little earlier, you said that Russia is now in a state of cold war. Well, where does democracy come from in modern Russia if it is not effective in the face of external threats? What I dislike most about people is hypocrisy and double standards.
You do not have democracy in Finland because you have lost your neutrality and have been drawn into the NATO military bloc. You live in a totalitarian state, simply because now you can't do it any other way. So don't tell me about the benefits of democracy, your vote as an elector decides absolutely nothing.
Open your eyes and have the courage to face reality. Democracy is the shit that the aging hegemon in the face of the United States feeds its vassals from a shovel so that they remain weak and can continue to be plundered without hindrance. Russia has challenged the existing world order and its current totalitarian system is not a whim of Putin, but the only viable option to change the world for the better, to make it more fair and honest. You don't like it, but that doesn't stop the truth from being true.

What? That's pretty rich and sad projecting coming from a man living under 24/7 dictatorship and fantasizing about anarchism. It doesn't surprise me that you don't know how democracy or social democracy keep working but i am not going to educate you about that because you can totally use wikipedia for that (if russia haven't blocked it again). I am sure you are been told it doesn't work because if Puting would rather suppress it China way. But i am not sure how that suppressing of opposition would would even differ from any other day under putinist dictatorship. So many people have been falling from russian balconies and windows that you should send those to the battlefield. It's insanely absurd how you in denial you have to be to believe the kremlin propagada anymore.

And yeah we very much made a calculated deal with NATO because we don't want to get invaded by you guys. That was something historical as we always were against joining nato. But now we see that as lesser evil so imagine how much more we disliked actions of Putin. We got bored of your bullying, fifth colonna troll tactics and fly overs.

Ahaha, your "calculated deal" to join NATO was made by your ex-prime minister's rabid cunt, contrary to public opinion, which at that time was against it. That's all there is to know in Finnish democracy. When choosing the lesser evil, remember that you have chosen evil anyway.


upd: Meanwhile, nothing special is happening on the fronts, and this seems to play into the hands of Russia - the lack of significant successes among the soldiers of Ukraine is losing morale, and irritation is growing in the West. More and more often in the United States, there are rumors that Kyiv's bet on F16 fighters will not work, that Ukraine does not really need ATACMS missiles, and nothing has been heard about Abrams tanks lately either. It seems that the US resolve to support Ukraine until complete victory is fading along with confidence in the possibility of achieving this victory. Elections are coming soon in a democratic US, and the unfinished gestalt of the Ukrainian conflict is bad baggage on the pre-election finish line.

It is really funny to talk about losing morale for Ukrainian soldiers which every day are liberating more territories,you will see in the end of the offensive.The funny part is that you a Russian supporter is talking about Ukrainian morale when in fact even high generals from Russia are turning against Putin and telling him the sore reality of a lot of lost lives in the battlefront,the lack of moral and everything going wrong there,of course such generals are directly dismissed from their duty for speaking the truth as the truth in Russia is only the propaganda from the Kremlin and every other idea gets immediately shut down.The fact that Russia resorted to the last resort to get out of the grain deal to play hunger games shows how desperate they are in their total isolation so far.

[BADecker]

~

Ahaha, your "calculated deal" to join NATO was made by your ex-prime minister's rabid cunt, contrary to public opinion, which at that time was against it. That's all there is to know in Finnish democracy. When choosing the lesser evil, remember that you have chosen evil anyway.


upd: Meanwhile, nothing special is happening on the fronts, and this seems to play into the hands of Russia - the lack of significant successes among the soldiers of Ukraine is losing morale, and irritation is growing in the West. More and more often in the United States, there are rumors that Kyiv's bet on F16 fighters will not work, that Ukraine does not really need ATACMS missiles, and nothing has been heard about Abrams tanks lately either. It seems that the US resolve to support Ukraine until complete victory is fading along with confidence in the possibility of achieving this victory. Elections are coming soon in a democratic US, and the unfinished gestalt of the Ukrainian conflict is bad baggage on the pre-election finish line.

It is really funny to talk about losing morale for Ukrainian soldiers which every day are liberating more territories,you will see in the end of the offensive.The funny part is that you a Russian supporter is talking about Ukrainian morale when in fact even high generals from Russia are turning against Putin and telling him the sore reality of a lot of lost lives in the battlefront,the lack of moral and everything going wrong there,of course such generals are directly dismissed from their duty for speaking the truth as the truth in Russia is only the propaganda from the Kremlin and every other idea gets immediately shut down.The fact that Russia resorted to the last resort to get out of the grain deal to play hunger games shows how desperate they are in their total isolation so far.

Right. Everybody is tired of Putin's pussyfooting around. Let's get down to business, and wipe Ukraine from the face of the earth... which Russia could easily do.

But that isn't in the best interests of anybody. The way to do it is to do it peacefully. What's peaceful about the Ukraine war? The fact that Russia is showing that it can be trusted in two ways:
1. That it is easily strong enough to take on anybody in the world and win;
2. That it is aiming for peaceful trade along with respect for all nations... the reason it isn't simply wiping Ukraine out and continuing on with all of Nato.

Many Russians want a powerful leader, like having Stalin back. They simply don't understand how Stalin endangered them all. Putin is looking and planning for the distant future... a time when Russia can be at peace with everybody, and everybody with Russia. And, of course, a not so distant future, where he might be able to retire and live a long life in peace.

If Putin goes down now, and is replaced by Medvedev or somebody like him, Russia will do to the world what Hitler was trying to do... take it all. There is nobody that is strong enough or united enough to stop them. Be glad they have Putin... for the salvation of the world. At least for the present time.

[swogerino]

~

Ahaha, your "calculated deal" to join NATO was made by your ex-prime minister's rabid cunt, contrary to public opinion, which at that time was against it. That's all there is to know in Finnish democracy. When choosing the lesser evil, remember that you have chosen evil anyway.


upd: Meanwhile, nothing special is happening on the fronts, and this seems to play into the hands of Russia - the lack of significant successes among the soldiers of Ukraine is losing morale, and irritation is growing in the West. More and more often in the United States, there are rumors that Kyiv's bet on F16 fighters will not work, that Ukraine does not really need ATACMS missiles, and nothing has been heard about Abrams tanks lately either. It seems that the US resolve to support Ukraine until complete victory is fading along with confidence in the possibility of achieving this victory. Elections are coming soon in a democratic US, and the unfinished gestalt of the Ukrainian conflict is bad baggage on the pre-election finish line.

It is really funny to talk about losing morale for Ukrainian soldiers which every day are liberating more territories,you will see in the end of the offensive.The funny part is that you a Russian supporter is talking about Ukrainian morale when in fact even high generals from Russia are turning against Putin and telling him the sore reality of a lot of lost lives in the battlefront,the lack of moral and everything going wrong there,of course such generals are directly dismissed from their duty for speaking the truth as the truth in Russia is only the propaganda from the Kremlin and every other idea gets immediately shut down.The fact that Russia resorted to the last resort to get out of the grain deal to play hunger games shows how desperate they are in their total isolation so far.

Right. Everybody is tired of Putin's pussyfooting around. Let's get down to business, and wipe Ukraine from the face of the earth... which Russia could easily do.

But that isn't in the best interests of anybody. The way to do it is to do it peacefully. What's peaceful about the Ukraine war? The fact that Russia is showing that it can be trusted in two ways:
1. That it is easily strong enough to take on anybody in the world and win;
2. That it is aiming for peaceful trade along with respect for all nations... the reason it isn't simply wiping Ukraine out and continuing on with all of Nato.

Many Russians want a powerful leader, like having Stalin back. They simply don't understand how Stalin endangered them all. Putin is looking and planning for the distant future... a time when Russia can be at peace with everybody, and everybody with Russia. And, of course, a not so distant future, where he might be able to retire and live a long life in peace.

If Putin goes down now, and is replaced by Medvedev or somebody like him, Russia will do to the world what Hitler was trying to do... take it all. There is nobody that is strong enough or united enough to stop them. Be glad they have Putin... for the salvation of the world. At least for the present time.

It is extremely funny what you have written here is someone who has been in the psychiatric hospital and not by normal people.How the f*ck can Russia win against all world when they are not being able to win against Ukraine yet and they have lost several modern equipment which they need years to replace,beside that they had the worse loses in human capital as over 200.000 soldiers are killed and more will be killed each day.

If you mean that they can be threatening the world with their nuclear rhetoric if they will ever use it will mean Russia will not exist anymore in the map as the West and NATO will eradicate them from earth.I don't see any win soon for Russia,they should withdraw and pay for years the destruction they caused in Ukraine.

[paxmao]

It seems like every morning I wake up and read more terrible news about this war. Today it’s Ukraine’s ports being bombed. There are videos surfacing of captured Ukrainian troops saying they were threatened with jail if they didn’t fight. I don’t know how much longer we’re expected to pay for this horrible proxy war, but I for one don’t think Ukrainians should be forced to fight in it or face jail.

I think you should stop comsuming so much Russia propaganda if you're going to keep falling for it.

@OgNasty, if you do not like "paying for this war" (I wonder if you have noticed that many "pay" with their lives)... if you do not like paying this I say, just figure out how much would you need to pay if going back to the Cold War. That is expensive, and much more since you have a much bigger China.

US, Europe an Russia have had the dividend of peace, but you should not take that for granted if RF "wins" or looks to "win".

What Is a Peace Dividend?
A peace dividend is an economic boost a country will get from a peace that follows a war. In theory, at that time the government can afford to reduce defense spending and reallocate the money to domestic policy priorities.

This assumes that the money recouped from defense spending is generally used for the good of society and human or sustainable development; projects that involve new housing, education, and healthcare, for example.

[swogerino]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

[DaRude]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

[BADecker]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

Right!

The US has been instigating terrorism done by Ukraine for a long time now... years.

Russia was simply doing a police action in Ukraine to put down the terrorism. And it is still doing its police action (just as the US has been doing many police actions around the world since WW2).

If Russia were doing war, they would have rolled across Ukraine long ago, and Ukraine would not exist right now.

[DaRude]

It seems like every morning I wake up and read more terrible news about this war. Today it’s Ukraine’s ports being bombed. There are videos surfacing of captured Ukrainian troops saying they were threatened with jail if they didn’t fight. I don’t know how much longer we’re expected to pay for this horrible proxy war, but I for one don’t think Ukrainians should be forced to fight in it or face jail.

I think you should stop comsuming so much Russia propaganda if you're going to keep falling for it.

@OgNasty, if you do not like "paying for this war" (I wonder if you have noticed that many "pay" with their lives)... if you do not like paying this I say, just figure out how much would you need to pay if going back to the Cold War. That is expensive, and much more since you have a much bigger China.

US, Europe an Russia have had the dividend of peace, but you should not take that for granted if RF "wins" or looks to "win".

What Is a Peace Dividend?
A peace dividend is an economic boost a country will get from a peace that follows a war. In theory, at that time the government can afford to reduce defense spending and reallocate the money to domestic policy priorities.

This assumes that the money recouped from defense spending is generally used for the good of society and human or sustainable development; projects that involve new housing, education, and healthcare, for example.

Like you I'm all for suppressing Chinese commie regime, but i have questions on the strategy. We're talking about #2 (possibly soon to become #1) economy in the world, in your cost/benefit analysis how many Ukrainians should be thrown against Russians that outnumber them by 100.000.000 in the world’s most mined country without any air support, with the strategy of just hoping Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day? Until Nuland's freedom cookies in 2014 Russia wasn't aligned with China at all, who do we hold accountable for such epic failure if while trying to get Ukraine under "west's sphere of influence" we still end up going into cold war with China, only now having pushed Russia on their side? And this whole strategy of defeating Russians in Ukraine first and then coming after Chinese relies on China being idiots and not seeing this coming right? How will all of this look in the history books 50yrs from now?

[swogerino]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

[DaRude]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

[paxmao]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

You are wrong, as usual. The drone attacks in Moscow were heading to the Ministry of defence. The MOd is a legitimate target as it is considered a key infrastructure that directly support the war effort of the RF. The systems that the RF uses to prevent this deflects and redirects the drones by interfering with them so they crash somewhere else nearby (at 300 meters to be precise), so you are accusing the RF of terrorism against the RF. Now that I think of it, you are right.

Seriously speaking, there is little incentive for Ukraine to just hit some random building in Moscow. It just does not make sense - even if it was actually Ukraine (I have not seen official confirmation).

Also as usual, no comment on the attacks at Odessa, which actually were not directed to any military or war related infrastructure, so ... yeah, speaking of redefining terms.

And yet another gaffe - yes terrorism actually does depend if you are defending yourself: Example: The RF is not at war with the UK, but they send two guys to kill someone living in the UK. That is terrorism. If you are at war and that person is a military, is not - it is a legitimate target.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/23/europe/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-hit-moscow-intl-hnk/index.html

One of the buildings seen damaged in footage geolocated by CNN houses the ministry’s military orchestra. It was not immediately clear if that had been caused by the drones.

The area also houses the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence, known as GRU, 26165 unit, which carries out cyber activities, according to multiple Western sources. It’s also in the vicinity of the Ministry of Defense’s National Defense Management Center.

Later Monday morning, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told journalists that Russian air defenses had worked successfully.

If you ask me, Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help.

[BADecker]

^^^ The Russian people will become scared at first. Then they will become angry, and unite behind their government when the time comes to shut Ukraine completely down.

[DaRude]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

You are wrong, as usual. The drone attacks in Moscow were heading to the Ministry of defence. The MOd is a legitimate target as it is considered a key infrastructure that directly support the war effort of the RF. The systems that the RF uses to prevent this deflects and redirects the drones by interfering with them so they crash somewhere else nearby (at 300 meters to be precise), so you are accusing the RF of terrorism against the RF. Now that I think of it, you are right.

Seriously speaking, there is little incentive for Ukraine to just hit some random building in Moscow. It just does not make sense - even if it was actually Ukraine (I have not seen official confirmation).

Also as usual, no comment on the attacks at Odessa, which actually were not directed to any military or war related infrastructure, so ... yeah, speaking of redefining terms.

And yet another gaffe - yes terrorism actually does depend if you are defending yourself: Example: The RF is not at war with the UK, but they send two guys to kill someone living in the UK. That is terrorism. If you are at war and that person is a military, is not - it is a legitimate target.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/23/europe/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-hit-moscow-intl-hnk/index.html

One of the buildings seen damaged in footage geolocated by CNN houses the ministry’s military orchestra. It was not immediately clear if that had been caused by the drones.

The area also houses the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence, known as GRU, 26165 unit, which carries out cyber activities, according to multiple Western sources. It’s also in the vicinity of the Ministry of Defense’s National Defense Management Center.

Later Monday morning, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told journalists that Russian air defenses had worked successfully.

If you ask me, Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help.

WOW so much to unpack there that I don't even know where to start, are you being sarcastic here?, it's hard to believe that this is all just a coincidence.

First of all reread what i wrote and indicate which exact statement I am wrong about.

What you're doing here is bringing up an arguments that the actual mark was a valid military target but due to some reason it happened to land in some unintended location. OK that's the default justification for every side in every modern conflict (rarely someone admits to terrorism). Then you hilariously do a flip and attempt to claim, that because RF deflected a missile on to themselves they are terrorists? Following such logic all SAM missiles UA launched as well as all intersected incoming RF missiles (which all must land somewhere right?) were also terrorist attacks from Ukraine onto Ukraine? Going even further Ukraine sending a missle to Poland and killing two Poles was a Ukrainian terrorist attack on NATO too?

Then you appeal to logic making an argument that there is no incentive to hit random buildings, and how it doesn't make sense. (Sure, an argument that's also widely used by both sides).

And then you turn around, contradict yourself and pretty much give a clear example of an incentive and why such a terrorist attack makes perfect sense and may help your political objective "Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help."

terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

Bravo, honestly I don't think i could've come up with a better example and a more typical justification for terrorism if i tried. And then somewhere in between you keep arguing with Encyclopedia Britannica to the definition of terrorism and how it should depend on defending yourself.  

[paxmao]

So how does it feel for Russians to see two drones striking some buildings in the center of Moscow?I am sure they like it and Ukrainian counter offensive is going slowly but gradually having liberated another 16.4 km square in the south front last week.I don't understand the press statement of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia that name the attack as a terrorist attack by the Kyiv regime when in fact Russia is applying terror against Ukraine more than 1.5 year now,this is just plain Ukrainian response to terror and they should gain momentum and hit even further so Russian start thinking if the war is worth continuing or not as they are not getting anything.

You do realize that you made no attempt to argue that it wasn't terrorism from UA side, but instead just justified it as a response to another terrorism. Or do you not realize that terrorism is not mutually exclusive? My ministry of propaganda told me that the enemy blew up "our" kindergarten, so i was activated to blow up "their" kindergarten in response thus i'm not a terrorist logic?  

And if you didn't consider your audience to be complete imbeciles, when stating how many square kms were "liberated", for a full picture and objectivity wouldn't you also include how many square kilometers were also "lost" on other fronts?

It is not terrorism when you defend yourself and Ukraine has never mass killed civilians like Russian barbarians have done in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv.The Ukrainian army has never hit a maternity hospital killing innocent people,they have never bombed theater where it was clearly written "CHILDREN" in Russian language so what can justify these actions from Russian aggression and lately they even hit a Unesco heritage site in Ukraine,they commit a horrendous war crime every day.

As for the square kilometers,Ukraine has reclaimed more than 50% of territories that they lost in the early stages of invasion,they will liberate every single inch of territory until Ukraine wins.

Again, by definition terrorism is not dependent on whether you're defending yourself or not, or any further justifications. You really believe that an attempt to redefine terms helps your cause? Yes yes we all know, almost about to take Crimea back, right...i'll let you be.

You are wrong, as usual. The drone attacks in Moscow were heading to the Ministry of defence. The MOd is a legitimate target as it is considered a key infrastructure that directly support the war effort of the RF. The systems that the RF uses to prevent this deflects and redirects the drones by interfering with them so they crash somewhere else nearby (at 300 meters to be precise), so you are accusing the RF of terrorism against the RF. Now that I think of it, you are right.

Seriously speaking, there is little incentive for Ukraine to just hit some random building in Moscow. It just does not make sense - even if it was actually Ukraine (I have not seen official confirmation).

Also as usual, no comment on the attacks at Odessa, which actually were not directed to any military or war related infrastructure, so ... yeah, speaking of redefining terms.

And yet another gaffe - yes terrorism actually does depend if you are defending yourself: Example: The RF is not at war with the UK, but they send two guys to kill someone living in the UK. That is terrorism. If you are at war and that person is a military, is not - it is a legitimate target.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/23/europe/ukraine-russia-drone-attacks-hit-moscow-intl-hnk/index.html

One of the buildings seen damaged in footage geolocated by CNN houses the ministry’s military orchestra. It was not immediately clear if that had been caused by the drones.

The area also houses the Russian Foreign Military Intelligence, known as GRU, 26165 unit, which carries out cyber activities, according to multiple Western sources. It’s also in the vicinity of the Ministry of Defense’s National Defense Management Center.

Later Monday morning, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told journalists that Russian air defenses had worked successfully.

If you ask me, Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help.

WOW so much to unpack there that I don't even know where to start, are you being sarcastic here?, it's hard to believe that this is all just a coincidence.

First of all reread what i wrote and indicate which exact statement I am wrong about.

What you're doing here is bringing up an arguments that the actual mark was a valid military target but due to some reason it happened to land in some unintended location. OK that's the default justification for every side in every modern conflict (rarely someone admits to terrorism). Then you hilariously do a flip and attempt to claim, that because RF deflected a missile on to themselves they are terrorists? Following such logic all SAM missiles UA launched as well as all intersected incoming RF missiles (which all must land somewhere right?) were also terrorist attacks from Ukraine onto Ukraine? Going even further Ukraine sending a missle to Poland and killing two Poles was a Ukrainian terrorist attack on NATO too?

Then you appeal to logic making an argument that there is no incentive to hit random buildings, and how it doesn't make sense. (Sure, an argument that's also widely used by both sides).

And then you turn around, contradict yourself and pretty much give a clear example of an incentive and why such a terrorist attack makes perfect sense and may help your political objective "Russians have to understand that war is not that stuff that happens in the TV, but something that can actually go kaboom in you door. This may help."

terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.

Bravo, honestly I don't think i could've come up with a better example and a more typical justification for terrorism if i tried. And then somewhere in between you keep arguing with Encyclopedia Britannica to the definition of terrorism and how it should depend on defending yourself.  

You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

[Pidgeon]

Right. Everybody is tired of Putin's pussyfooting around. Let's get down to business, and wipe Ukraine from the face of the earth... which Russia could easily do.

What Ukraine, wasn't Ukraine conquered like one year ago when Kyiv fell?
Seriously cut the crap, next time you're going to tell me Warsaw and Lisbon haven't also been conquered and that the USD is still alive an kicking and humping the Russian ruble!
Gibberish!

I wonder why that happened?

I wonder what has happened since 50 years ago and why everyone wants in NATO and now in the Warsaw pact, I also wonder why Vietnam is welcoming US carriers in its ports and not Chinese or Russian troops.Puzzling and boggling, how every single ally that is not a dictatorship failure of a shit nation that Russia had turned it's backed against them, even Kazakhstan or whatever its name is!

[DaRude]

...
You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

  with such low effort arguments you've done a great job at discrediting yourself, at which point this just feels like a great waste of time on my part, so i guess you got me, good job on that front.

You do realize that UA deflected/jammed exponentially many more drones in Kyiv, right? where did all of those land at? Oops. And not even going into SAMs hit rates, misfires, blue on blue attacks, and UA attacking Poland.

Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.

You've totally discredited yourself with your low effort silly arguments, and proved total lack of objectivity and critical thinking (or were you always like this and for some reason i mistakenly held you in high regard?) so i'll let others engage you in never ending shit slinging propaganda. But to summarize.

Grain silos:
Objective facts - excess grain for export, China was to be the main consumer. Part of the larger end of the grain deal
Results - Financial and political pressure on the "west". Event removes revenue stream from UA, opens up markets for RF grain, excess UA grain would flood Poland & Romania undercutting local farmers and further raising social tensions there. Poland and Hungary threaten to cut Ukraine’s export route to the West
UA coverage - RF is starting new holodomor for...whole world? and only UA grain can save the children. Try to get as much coverage to stay in news headlines, bring attention to yearly child deaths in Cuba as a consequence of blockade starving children elsewhere in the world.
RF coverage - target was used as military infrastructure to create and launch sea drones that attacked bridge in Crimea

RF inflation:
Objective facts - USD=90RUB Russia notched a victory in the fight for influence over global oil markets in recent days when the price of the country’s most coveted crude traded above a Western price cap imposed to starve Moscow of funds for the war in Ukraine.
Result - Financial pressure on RF.
UA coverage - RF will financially collapse any second now, keep raising support for war effort. Cost of RF imports will skyrocket
RF coverage - RF oil/gas exports are priced in USD but expenses state budget and military salaries are paid in RUB. So high exchange rate actually helps budget surplus. Food is local grown and denominated in RUB so no inflation, but iPhone imports will cost more.

Now what's more worrying to me is all the recent ruckus going on around Poland. Seems the "west" has exhausted current list of available escalations, so a potential next step appears to be Poland making a bilateral defense pact with Ukraine and sending in their troops to UA (entering the conflict on their own "outside" of NATO framework). This would compensate all of the lost manpower in UA, yet supposedly keep NATO out of direct confrontation. Seems like RF is prepping Belarus, nukes, and general mobilization as a hedge against such development.

[paxmao]

...
You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

with such low effort arguments you've done a great job at discrediting yourself, at which point this just feels like a great waste of time on my part, so i guess you got me, good job on that front.

Your statements do not merit anything else.

...
Grain silos:
Objective facts - excess grain for export, China was to be the main consumer. Part of the larger end of the grain deal
Results - Financial and political pressure on the "west". Event removes revenue stream from UA, opens up markets for RF grain, excess UA grain would flood Poland & Romania undercutting local farmers and further raising social tensions there. Poland and Hungary threaten to cut Ukraine’s export route to the West
UA coverage - RF is starting new holodomor for...whole world? and only UA grain can save the children. Try to get as much coverage to stay in news headlines, bring attention to yearly child deaths in Cuba as a consequence of blockade starving children elsewhere in the world.
RF coverage - target was used as military infrastructure to create and launch sea drones that attacked bridge in Crimea

Facts - You argue that a drone hitting a commercial building near the Ministry is terror, but the attack on food storages is ok. Why would I need to make an effort to rebate that, you are doing great on your own.

The complaints of eastern European farmers were already there even during the grain deal, so is not a result of breaking it. The solution is simple: Ukrainian grain would only be for export, not for local markets. It is a mere regulatory issue.

Ruzzia is already a grain exporter. But let me ask you: If the grain from Ukraine to China is replaced with grain from Ruzzia... what happens to the price of grain inside Ruzzia? If you ask me, the RF citizens are going to pay extra and is not a luxury product, it is the most basic food. I hope they feel glorious about it.

A deal has two sides. It is not that Ruzzia is creating hunger, is that by not reaching an agreement grain prices will be higher. Everywhere, including those places in which the price will not be affordable. Casually, many of those countries are friendly to the Ruzzian cause... for now.

As for the economic effect in US, it will be positive, they produce grain like crazy and now they can sell it more expensive.

Regarding Europe, the cost of food is not really a concern. Production and demand are quite controlled.

RF inflation:
Objective facts - USD=90RUB Russia notched a victory in the fight for influence over global oil markets in recent days when the price of the country’s most coveted crude traded above a Western price cap imposed to starve Moscow of funds for the war in Ukraine.
Result - Financial pressure on RF.
UA coverage - RF will financially collapse any second now, keep raising support for war effort. Cost of RF imports will skyrocket
RF coverage - RF oil/gas exports are priced in USD but expenses state budget and military salaries are paid in RUB. So high exchange rate actually helps budget surplus. Food is local grown and denominated in RUB so no inflation, but iPhone imports will cost more.

Now what's more worrying to me is all the recent ruckus going on around Poland. Seems the "west" has exhausted current list of available escalations, so a potential next step appears to be Poland making a bilateral defense pact with Ukraine and sending in their troops to UA (entering the conflict on their own "outside" of NATO framework). This would compensate all of the lost manpower in UA, yet supposedly keep NATO out of direct confrontation. Seems like RF is prepping Belarus, nukes, and general mobilization as a hedge against such development.

Inflation:
Are you clueless about what inflation is? You just throw there some economic non-facts and then say I am not doing enough effort to rebate? Gee dude... you need to try to have some self-criticism.

This is not about coverage, this is about the interest rates (currently 8.5%, previously at 20%) that the RF has to keep so that they do not spiral into hyperinflation. The only person with a brain in the whole Ruzzian government is Nabiullina, but she can only do what she can. You know what is paying a mortgage nowadays at nearly 10%, that is more than double than 2 just two years ago?

That is inflation.


Escalations:

Oh my friend, the "available escalations" are endless... ATACMS, F-35s, more F-16s, more Abrahms, ... The only reason this is not happening is because the US is absolutely fine with Ruzzia fighting this war and self-demilitarising the Soviet arsenals without any US soldier killed. The game of proxies is so old.

I have said it over and over, there is a winner to this, but is not Ruzzia, is not Germany, is not Poland and is not Ukraine (may be in the future, not as of now).

 And China too -  cheap oil right when they are in a crisis.

[BADecker]

Ukraine is like the woman who backed into the airplane propeller. Disaster! Ukraine never had a chance. Now they are buying Russian refined petroleum products just to be able to keep on fighting. How long will Russia put up with that? See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5413836.msg62610164#msg62610164.

Read the whole article, below, through. There are a bunch of points about Ukraine that historically make her at least as despicable as anyone else.


Ukraine Complete Disaster – Neocons Lose Again?


https://www.theburningplatform.com/2023/07/25/ukraine-complete-disaster-neocons-lose-again/
The American Neocons are being confronted with the fact that there NEVER was any chance that Ukraine would defeat Russia and putting this high-heel questionable gender dancer in high heels in charge of war was in itself a war crime. There is absolutely no war Ukraine can win anything. This is why Zelensky has been so desperate o drag in NATO because he knows they cannot retake the Donbas no less defeat Russia. The American Neocons were hoping to weaken Russia so they could contrive some scheme to justify going in for the kill.

There are rumblings behind the curtain now that a peace deal has to be struck of Ukraine will collapse if their own troops do not rise up and assassinate Zelensky for his profiteering and slaughter of his own people. After all, numerous Roman generals found themselves in a position where they did not want to fight so they assassinated their leader. In the case of Maximinus I (235-238AD), his own men, humiliated by their defeat, now entered the tent of Maximinus and murdered him. To demonstrate their new loyalty to Rome, they cut off his head and sent it to Rome. This was no isolated incident. It became rather common for the troops when ordered to fight a wrong war, turned to assassinate their own general.

The fact that the Wall Street Journal on July 23rd wrote:

"Western military officials knew Kyiv didn't have all the training or weapons—from shells to warplanes—that it needed to dislodge Russian forces. But they hoped Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day."

...

Zelensky’s dream of selling Ukraine to Blackrock is really disgusting. He has had no problem letter his country brun because the more that burns, the greater the rebuilding project. He has been bragging that this will be the biggest investment opportunity for Europe with no mention of how many Ukrainians must die for he dream. Many have compared him to Nero letting Rome burn so he could build his grand golden palace.
...