Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[be.open]

~[/b]

You mean, of course, no power other than Israel and the United States?
~

Oh yeah! "The USA and Israel - the main sources of evil in this world." Is that what your Telly is telling you all the time? Not all of that is true, you know.

I'm not saying anything about "evil". I hope you will not deny that right now Israel is trying to resolve the issue in the Gaza Strip by force with the support of the United States? Or that the US invaded Iraq based on a test tube containing fictitious chemical weapons? Or that Türkiye forcibly annexed half of Cyprus without any sanctions? Sometimes issues are resolved by force, this is neither good nor bad, but this is an objective reality that for some reason you are trying to deny.

No power is strong enough in this world to decide over others by force. It's the greatest achievement of our civilisation.

What you present as the greatest achievement of our civilization is an illusion, a fiction, it does not exist. Strength still matters. Those who are weaker complain.

[Branko]

~
The ex KGB that currently rules Ruzzia is a shadow of the power and leadership of the USSR, but they are failing to accept the faith of the loosers an that is why so many are dying for absolutely nothing: When you are no longer a power, you do not get to decide over others by force.

In my opinion, in today's world you can't be solving problems existing in your head by force, by waging a war against an independent state, like putin is trying to do. He will lose because he's trying to go against the civilisation that has reached this point after evolving for thousands of years. No power is strong enough in this world to decide over others by force. It's the greatest achievement of our civilisation.

Umm, what? Tell that to USA, lol

[paxmao]

The Sevastopol strike has been confirmed by videos. One of the explosion has been really huge, it seems to correspond to a power plant.

I guess this is no longer news, but Ruzzia's energy and oil industries - anything you cannot really move past the Urals, is being hit hard. There is nothing safe up to 1500 km from Ukraine.

In the front, the advances have been minimum, but there is some advance from Ukraine in Kremina and Kherson, not only Ruzzian advances.

~
The ex KGB that currently rules Ruzzia is a shadow of the power and leadership of the USSR, but they are failing to accept the faith of the loosers an that is why so many are dying for absolutely nothing: When you are no longer a power, you do not get to decide over others by force.

In my opinion, in today's world you can't be solving problems existing in your head by force, by waging a war against an independent state, like putin is trying to do. He will lose because he's trying to go against the civilisation that has reached this point after evolving for thousands of years. No power is strong enough in this world to decide over others by force. It's the greatest achievement of our civilisation.

Umm, what? Tell that to USA, lol

Why don't you go and tell them?

[be.open]

I guess this is no longer news, but Ruzzia's energy and oil industries - anything you cannot really move past the Urals, is being hit hard. There is nothing safe up to 1500 km from Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the World Bank classified countries by income level for 2024-2025 and included Russia in the category of high-income countries.

Economic activity in Russia was influenced by a large increase in military related activity in 2023, while growth was also boosted by a rebound in trade (+6.8%), the financial sector (+8.7%), and construction (+6.6%). These factors led to increases in both real (3.6%) and nominal (10.9%) GDP, and Russia’s Atlas GNI per capita grew by 11.2%.

That's what viviparous sanctions do.

ps Do not deceive yourself - Russia is making good money from this conflict, and twice: first from destruction, and then from restoring what was destroyed.

[BADecker]

After all, the US doesn't want to take over a poor country. They learned that from taking over Ukraine.

[be.open]

In the front, the advances have been minimum, but there is some advance from Ukraine in Kremina and Kherson, not only Ruzzian advances.

Well, let's summarize the achievements of Russia and Ukraine on the front line over the past six months in 2024.

Russia captured 55 settlements in the DPR, LPR, Kharkov and Zaporozhye regions, including one city (Avdeevka), two urban-type settlements (Ocheretino, Belogorovka), eight small towns (Lastochkino, Severnoye, Stepovoye, Nevelskoye, Mirnoye, Glubokoye, Shumy, Spornoye) and 44 villages. Ukraine captured nothing.

[paxmao]

In the front, the advances have been minimum, but there is some advance from Ukraine in Kremina and Kherson, not only Ruzzian advances.

Well, let's summarize the achievements of Russia and Ukraine on the front line over the past six months in 2024.

Russia captured 55 settlements in the DPR, LPR, Kharkov and Zaporozhye regions, including one city (Avdeevka), two urban-type settlements (Ocheretino, Belogorovka), eight small towns (Lastochkino, Severnoye, Stepovoye, Nevelskoye, Mirnoye, Glubokoye, Shumy, Spornoye) and 44 villages. Ukraine captured nothing.

Regardless of the accuracy of the claims... how much has Ruzzia paid for that gorgeous piece of real state? I mean, if you want to summarize, you would need to include how many refineries are out of service, how many radars have been destroyed, how many tons of fuel have burned, how many aircraft have been destroyed. Not to mention lives lost - my guess is that you are now getting NK soldiers for a reason. Putin may not be that confident in mobilising more people from Ruzzia properly said.

It is no longer news, but there are drone strikes in the most expensive Ruzzian infrastructure and weapons system daily. Belgorod has become a no-go place, from being a peaceful place even nice to live in. You can look at Km2, but it is a good idea to look at the dollars and people you pay for them.

But sure, in the ground I accept Ruzzia has some initiative for now yet much much less of what should be expected from such a "powerful army".

[be.open]

Regardless of the accuracy of the claims... how much has Ruzzia paid for that gorgeous piece of real state? I mean, if you want to summarize, you would need to include how many refineries are out of service, how many radars have been destroyed, how many tons of fuel have burned, how many aircraft have been destroyed. Not to mention lives lost - my guess is that you are now getting NK soldiers for a reason. Putin may not be that confident in mobilising more people from Ruzzia properly said.

It is no longer news, but there are drone strikes in the most expensive Ruzzian infrastructure and weapons system daily. Belgorod has become a no-go place, from being a peaceful place even nice to live in. You can look at Km2, but it is a good idea to look at the dollars and people you pay for them.

Well, it seems you are finding it difficult to provide compelling evidence that this price is too expensive for Russia.

But sure, in the ground I accept Ruzzia has some initiative for now yet much much less of what should be expected from such a "powerful army".

Your expectations are your problems.

Above, I have already referred to data from the World Bank (which can hardly be suspected of sympathizing with Russia), according to which Russia is not getting poorer, but rather getting richer during this conflict. Well, why should Russia force its slow flow? Time is on Russia’s side, I said this two years ago, a year ago and I say it now.

[paxmao]

Regardless of the accuracy of the claims... how much has Ruzzia paid for that gorgeous piece of real state? I mean, if you want to summarize, you would need to include how many refineries are out of service, how many radars have been destroyed, how many tons of fuel have burned, how many aircraft have been destroyed. Not to mention lives lost - my guess is that you are now getting NK soldiers for a reason. Putin may not be that confident in mobilising more people from Ruzzia properly said.

It is no longer news, but there are drone strikes in the most expensive Ruzzian infrastructure and weapons system daily. Belgorod has become a no-go place, from being a peaceful place even nice to live in. You can look at Km2, but it is a good idea to look at the dollars and people you pay for them.

Well, it seems you are finding it difficult to provide compelling evidence that this price is too expensive for Russia.

But sure, in the ground I accept Ruzzia has some initiative for now yet much much less of what should be expected from such a "powerful army".

Your expectations are your problems.

Above, I have already referred to data from the World Bank (which can hardly be suspected of sympathizing with Russia), according to which Russia is not getting poorer, but rather getting richer during this conflict. Well, why should Russia force its slow flow? Time is on Russia’s side, I said this two years ago, a year ago and I say it now.

I would like to see that report. Ruzzia is doing better than expected under sanctions, but is not getting "richer", it is burning through the Soviet legacy assets (e.g. thousands of tanks). Is like if you are selling your furniture and claim to be making a lot of money from it. And some of those assets will not come back, they are lost forever. Also, all the frozen assets are already paying the Ukrainian aid. I would not call it a working functional economy.

[be.open]

I would like to see that report. Ruzzia is doing better than expected under sanctions, but is not getting "richer", it is burning through the Soviet legacy assets (e.g. thousands of tanks). Is like if you are selling your furniture and claim to be making a lot of money from it. And some of those assets will not come back, they are lost forever. Also, all the frozen assets are already paying the Ukrainian aid. I would not call it a working functional economy.

Enjoy.

In a few months, winter will come, and it seems no one is going to restore the destroyed thermal power plants in Ukraine. In a month, Ukraine could expect to default on $20 billion in commercial debt. There are presidential elections in the United States in a few months, which could complicate support for Ukraine. In Europe, elections are also held here and there, and right-wing candidates are increasingly winning them (Italy, Slovakia, France, Austria, Netherlands..). And the point is not that the right is for Russia, they are for their national interest, but the national interest of European countries is, if not to be friends with Russia, then certainly not to fight with it. There are many factors that are now pushing Zelensky to soften his position on peace negotiations with Russia, because Ukraine needs peace or at least a temporary truce now much more than Russia. This means that Russia’s negotiating position will be strong, and Ukraine will have to accept unfavorable conditions for itself and make concessions. And the West will also have to pay a good price for Russia to loosen its iron grip on Ukraine’s neck.

[paxmao]

I would like to see that report. Ruzzia is doing better than expected under sanctions, but is not getting "richer", it is burning through the Soviet legacy assets (e.g. thousands of tanks). Is like if you are selling your furniture and claim to be making a lot of money from it. And some of those assets will not come back, they are lost forever. Also, all the frozen assets are already paying the Ukrainian aid. I would not call it a working functional economy.

Enjoy.

In a few months, winter will come, and it seems no one is going to restore the destroyed thermal power plants in Ukraine. In a month, Ukraine could expect to default on $20 billion in commercial debt. There are presidential elections in the United States in a few months, which could complicate support for Ukraine. In Europe, elections are also held here and there, and right-wing candidates are increasingly winning them (Italy, Slovakia, France, Austria, Netherlands..). And the point is not that the right is for Russia, they are for their national interest, but the national interest of European countries is, if not to be friends with Russia, then certainly not to fight with it. There are many factors that are now pushing Zelensky to soften his position on peace negotiations with Russia, because Ukraine needs peace or at least a temporary truce now much more than Russia. This means that Russia’s negotiating position will be strong, and Ukraine will have to accept unfavorable conditions for itself and make concessions. And the West will also have to pay a good price for Russia to loosen its iron grip on Ukraine’s neck.

I would not bet the house on Ukraine defaulting, it will be a month on negotiations that will most like end with the payments being mostly delayed and agreed with creditors. But it is always possible to re-pay with frozen Ruzzian assets you know.

Well, the whole point of supporting Ukraine is not to have to fight with Ruzzia now or in the next few decades. In other words, fight is inevitable given Putin's objective of re-creating the USSR (territorially speaking), it is just a question of where is it going to happen and Ukraine seems like the right place (even for Ukrainians). I would not take for granted that the rightmost parties in Europe will not support Ukraine.

BTW, I have read the report. It does not look like Ruzzia has become better off due to the war, it seems that they are, as I said, on a war economy. You can see in the same report how Ukraine in theory also goes to a higher income category??

On the US elections, again, do not take for granted that Trump will just say "oh... take whatever". Even in the last debate he mentioned that Putin's "peace plan" AKA "surrender and we talk after" was not acceptable either.

Regarding paying to loose Ruzzias "iron grip" (that's funny) ... I agree. But the payment is going to come in the form of more weapons, economic support and intelligence. If you are even thinking of Europe paying anything else to Ruzzia you are absolutely dreaming.

[Branko]

I would not bet the house on Ukraine defaulting, it will be a month on negotiations that will most like end with the payments being mostly delayed and agreed with creditors. But it is always possible to re-pay with frozen Ruzzian assets you know.

Actually, no, it is NOT possible, unless you want to make dollar worth less than paper its printed on
Its not even decided yet what to do with interests on those funds, even less about whole funds.

Even pretty soft approach so far has consequences:

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/story/us-saudi-arabia-petrodollar-deal-history-significance-what-is-it-2553088-2024-06-14


USA surely don't want everyone rushing to get rid of their USD reserves

[paxmao]

I would not bet the house on Ukraine defaulting, it will be a month on negotiations that will most like end with the payments being mostly delayed and agreed with creditors. But it is always possible to re-pay with frozen Ruzzian assets you know.

Actually, no, it is NOT possible, unless you want to make dollar worth less than paper its printed on
Its not even decided yet what to do with interests on those funds, even less about whole funds.

Even pretty soft approach so far has consequences:

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/story/us-saudi-arabia-petrodollar-deal-history-significance-what-is-it-2553088-2024-06-14


USA surely don't want everyone rushing to get rid of their USD reserves

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-21/eu-approves-plan-to-use-the-profits-from-frozen-russian-assets

EU European affairs ministers meet in Brussels Tuesday
The plan may see as much as €3 billion go to Ukraine this year

Mic drop.

[LTU_btc]

I guess this is no longer news, but Ruzzia's energy and oil industries - anything you cannot really move past the Urals, is being hit hard. There is nothing safe up to 1500 km from Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the World Bank classified countries by income level for 2024-2025 and included Russia in the category of high-income countries.

Economic activity in Russia was influenced by a large increase in military related activity in 2023, while growth was also boosted by a rebound in trade (+6.8%), the financial sector (+8.7%), and construction (+6.6%). These factors led to increases in both real (3.6%) and nominal (10.9%) GDP, and Russia’s Atlas GNI per capita grew by 11.2%.

That's what viviparous sanctions do.

ps Do not deceive yourself - Russia is making good money from this conflict, and twice: first from destruction, and then from restoring what was destroyed.

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. Not saying that these stats shows not correct information or something. But it doesn't reflects real situation fully.
Same report also classified Ukraine to Upper middle income from being Lower middle income. Also, their GDP had increased. How such thing can in country which is at war for 2.5 years, their economics can't work even at half potential and when they lost few millions from their population?
Russia, your quote already says main reason why it happened - their military industry is working at almost full potential, not like during peacetime.

[coolcoinz]

I've seen a video of wounded Russian soldiers who are being held in a pigsty. They complain that many of them are wounded but aren't allowed to go home because they signed 2 year contracts and the military doesn't know what to do with them. They don't want to get rid of cannon fodder and also don't want to show them to the public because most of them lost limbs or have shrapnel wounds. It's hart do be a man in Russia these days

Well, let's summarize the achievements of Russia and Ukraine on the front line over the past six months in 2024.

Russia captured 55 settlements in the DPR, LPR, Kharkov and Zaporozhye regions, including one city (Avdeevka), two urban-type settlements (Ocheretino, Belogorovka), eight small towns (Lastochkino, Severnoye, Stepovoye, Nevelskoye, Mirnoye, Glubokoye, Shumy, Spornoye) and 44 villages. Ukraine captured nothing.

In 1941 during Operation Barbarossa German forces captured many Soviet cities including Minsk, Smolensk and Kiev. The Soviets captured nothing.

[be.open]

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. Not saying that these stats shows not correct information or something. But it doesn't reflects real situation fully.
Same report also classified Ukraine to Upper middle income from being Lower middle income. Also, their GDP had increased. How such thing can in country which is at war for 2.5 years, their economics can't work even at half potential and when they lost few millions from their population?
Russia, your quote already says main reason why it happened - their military industry is working at almost full potential, not like during peacetime.

Your question already contains the answer. The massive outflow of the population from Ukraine allowed it to rise to a place in the World Bank's ranking table based on a metric that is calculated per capita.

In 1941 during Operation Barbarossa German forces captured many Soviet cities including Minsk, Smolensk and Kiev. The Soviets captured nothing.

The Russian special operation in Ukraine is already in its third year, and if we count from the beginning of the ATO in Donbas, then the conflict has been going on since 2014. Analogies with 1941 are hardly appropriate here. We recently found out with paxmao that the West does not want Russia’s defeat, because the defeat of a nuclear state is fraught with destabilization of the already tense situation in the world. And at the same time, victory over Russia is a condition for Ukraine’s entry into NATO. Here's a perdimonocle.

But it is always possible to re-pay with frozen Ruzzian assets you know.

Russia is closely monitoring the fate of its frozen assets, as well as the income from their use. Together with Russia, the countries of the Arab world and China are no less closely monitoring the fate of frozen Russian money. You can't be distracted from the fascinating spectacle, economic suicide can only be committed once.

[BADecker]

Russia already has contracts out backed by their frozen assets. This keeps the assets from being sold or given away due to the US Constitution Contract Clause.

[paxmao]

I guess this is no longer news, but Ruzzia's energy and oil industries - anything you cannot really move past the Urals, is being hit hard. There is nothing safe up to 1500 km from Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the World Bank classified countries by income level for 2024-2025 and included Russia in the category of high-income countries.

Economic activity in Russia was influenced by a large increase in military related activity in 2023, while growth was also boosted by a rebound in trade (+6.8%), the financial sector (+8.7%), and construction (+6.6%). These factors led to increases in both real (3.6%) and nominal (10.9%) GDP, and Russia’s Atlas GNI per capita grew by 11.2%.

That's what viviparous sanctions do.

ps Do not deceive yourself - Russia is making good money from this conflict, and twice: first from destruction, and then from restoring what was destroyed.

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. Not saying that these stats shows not correct information or something. But it doesn't reflects real situation fully.
Same report also classified Ukraine to Upper middle income from being Lower middle income. Also, their GDP had increased. How such thing can in country which is at war for 2.5 years, their economics can't work even at half potential and when they lost few millions from their population?
Russia, your quote already says main reason why it happened - their military industry is working at almost full potential, not like during peacetime.

They are burning through the furniture. Yes, your gdp grows in nominal terms, but a bomb does not generate wealth and eventually all comes to an end when the debt is excessive and there is no more furniture to burn.

Economy of Nazi Germany

The enormous military buildup was financed to a large extent through deficit spending, including Mefo bills. Between 1933 and 1939 the total revenue of the German government amounted to 62 billion ℛ︁ℳ︁, whereas government expenditure (up to 60% of which consisted of rearmament costs) exceeded 101 billion ℛ︁ℳ︁, thus causing a huge deficit and rising national debt (reaching 38 billion ℛ︁ℳ︁ in 1939).[35][36] Joseph Goebbels, who otherwise mocked the government's financial experts as narrow-minded misers, expressed concern in his diary about the exploding deficit.[37] Hitler and his economic team expected that the upcoming territorial expansion would provide the means of repaying the soaring national debt, by using the wealth and manpower of conquered nations and by exploiting the local populations, especially Jews.[9]

Ruzzia will not collapse financially because the economy is biased towards commodities and raw materials exports, but saying it is growing is just funny. It is bleeding people, can only trade at a discount and is burning all the diplomatic relations for the future. I would not like to be there over the next 10 years.

[tvbcof]

...
Meanwhile, the World Bank classified countries by income level for 2024-2025 and included Russia in the category of high-income countries.
...

That is a really interesting link even if worldbank is questionable.  Note how Ukraine, even with it's enviable resources, was always in the red until AFTER the special military operation when the U.S. corp/gov players in particular started massive money laundering through them.  They seem to have 'gone green' about the time when power for most of the pleb classes became an iffy thing due to Russian 'calibrations.'

It's interesting that in the dot-com bubble years Ukraine was in the Niger/Chad range in terms of 'income level'.  Around that time I had a Ukrainian giantess with several college degrees cleaning my house from time to time.  (Never fucked her, BTW, though it probably would have been an interesting experience.)

Also, if my memory serves, it was around this time that Putin took over Russia and put the Chicago School boys out of business in their loot-the-former-Soviet-Union games.  At least in Russia.  That explains fairly well the 'Putin-is-Hitler' shtick that they won't stop pushing no matter how absurd.  Seems like they made up for their losses by doubling down on the exploitation of Ukraine.

I cannot figure out why the native Slavs of Ukraine cannot see how they are being used/abused (and now genocided) in disproportionate degree by a (((particular tribe))) and resist a little bit.  I have to entertain the suggestion from members of said tribe that the natives are simply pretty stupid and manipulable but I don't have to agree that God (or G-d or whatever) put them...and me...on this earth for the sole purpose of serving (((them))).  I would have to agree with the Christians that 'the Lord works in strange ways' sometimes.

[be.open]

Ruzzia will not collapse financially because the economy is biased towards commodities and raw materials exports, but saying it is growing is just funny. It is bleeding people, can only trade at a discount and is burning all the diplomatic relations for the future. I would not like to be there over the next 10 years.

Here is another interesting link from the World Bank with updated data for 2023 with GDP indicators at purchasing power parity. Russia is the fourth largest economy in the world. Isolated and twice torn to shreds by Biden. Your unfounded propaganda slogans are easily refuted by objective financial indicators.

Russian Government’s Oil Revenue Was Up Almost 50% in June. Or here's the latest news from Bloomberg, there's something about an oil price ceiling.