BitMarket.Eu has closed down

[freeAgent]

This is yet another ridiculous episode in Bitcoin history.  Customer funds are supposed to be segregated.  This is a law everywhere I know of for a good reason: because shit like this can and will happen.  My biggest problem with the whole Bitcoin system right now is that it's full of scammers, amateur "entrepreneurs" pulling shit like this, and people who generally let greed get in the way of common sense and morality.

[1713570220]

1713570220

[1713570220]

1713570220

[amano]

people who generally let greed get in the way of common sense and morality.

Welcome to the real world ... One of the richest guys in Europe, Bernard Arnault, is about to be charged with tax fraud, for setting up mailbox companies in Belgium to avoid taxes in France. Ok this is a bit off topic, but stuff like that seriously pisses me off. No sense of morality whatsoever.
Greed got the better of M4v3R, and what he did was wrong, seriously wrong, but at least he's trying to fix his mistake, where as scum like Arnault just denies any wrongdoings.
Scum of the earth, it either sinks to the bottom or floats to the top ...

[becoin]

Hello all. I'm terrible sorry for not responding to this earlier. A mix of personal issues with searching for a solution prevented me from it.

Unfortunately, I have very bad news. I cannot currently proccess your withdrawals. The situation is very complicated and it's all my fault, that's why I feel terrible about it. I tried to make this up, to keep the site afloat and somehow recover the funds, but it's not possible anymore. Right now there are 1786 BTC pending withdrawal, which I can't honor...

Earlier this year, I had this "genius" idea which led me to making a fatal mistake. I thought I could provide a hedge fund service for Bitmarket users. There were other sites providing this service so I guesses that it could be successful. I had experience in trading before, all I needed is a platform. And there was one - Bitcoinica. I was so convinced with this idea (and sooo wrong in hindsight) that for a while I kept majority of "offline" Bitmarket funds there. What I didn't expect was that one day it could just dissapear - taking all the money with it. What's worse, the funds were shorted when it happened (converted to USD and sold) - and after Bitcoinica dissapeared BTC price rose by about 250% until now. So while there is still chance to recover the funds (there is an appointed liquidator assigned to this case and I've already sent in claims) it will be not enough to cover all people's funds. For the record - there are 20161 19980 BTC missing (edit: I subtracted my funds that also were deposited on Bitmarket), and Bitcoinica claims total for around 50K USD (the exact amount is uncertain because the liquidators haven't yet stated at what rate they will liquidate positions).

Sadly, I alone, I'm out of options. I don't have own money to pay for this loss (Bitmarket never made any real profit and I make up for a living by part-time web/mobile programming). The options for making this up for everyone as I see are:

- find an investor (or investors) that is willing to cover at least part of is debt. I would transfer all rights to the website software, servers and database to him and also work as a technician, possibly also implementing features he'd wanted. If you reading this have the funds necessary to make this work, PLEASE contact me on this.
- freeze all current funds and "start over" trading with explicit fees, implementing much-needed features like rating system and others. All profits from the fees would go directly to a fund for repaying the debt. I'm afraid that this option alone is not enough though - many people won't (and have full right to do so) trust the site again...
- something else?

Again, I would like to deeply apologize to everyone involved with this. I'm really sorry . I made a fatal mistake and I have to deal with it now. If you thinking about sueing me about this - you have full right to do so, but I don't think it's a good idea - I don't have any money so winning a case will get nothing for you and possibly ruin my life . It also would prevent me from doing anything to alleviate this situation, and I really want to make this up for everyone and I'm willing to do anything in my power to do this. I had many sleepless nights thinking about how I can make this tight. I just need some help with this.

Last, but not least...
If you have any bitcoin you can donate to help users that have locked funds, please send them here: 1Km5GFMat1DXcbvMTeH9ZvLGKvFCLBA9dM
All received Bitcoins will go directly to process withdrawals. I will update how much is left in this thread.

I hope this post is the first step towards resolving the mix of personal issues you've mentioned about. It won't be easy of course, but this is the right direction. Just be honest with people that are really trying to help you!

[malevolent]

Pay back 260.000 dollars in 3 years? Thats impossible with "normal" work. even if you earn 150.000 dollars a year, (which is already quite much in poland i assume) you will have to pay taxes and social security first and you also need to pay for rent and food.

Average yearly wages in Poland (after taxes and shit) are about $10 000.
You won't find a job for $150k a year unless you have connections in the government to get a place on the board of directors in some corrupt national company (but it would probably still be a lot less than $150k).

[disclaimer201]

This is yet another ridiculous episode in Bitcoin history.  Customer funds are supposed to be segregated.  This is a law everywhere I know of for a good reason: because shit like this can and will happen.  My biggest problem with the whole Bitcoin system right now is that it's full of scammers, amateur "entrepreneurs" pulling shit like this, and people who generally let greed get in the way of common sense and morality.

That's what I had in mind. I hardly know of any business in the bitcoin world that isn't a giant heap of a Scamshit. Pretending that it's always corrupted individuals, however doesn't address the problem sufficiently either. Maybe in 2011 you could think so. I wouldn't even talk about a community here, because that implies it's anything else than a wolf cave. Since all the crap in B(TC)S-world seems to be the rule rather than the exception I wanted to do something else than just pointing fingers. It's an existentialist idea, but what is broken here is not only the individual. It's systemic, and little to no different to why we saw the Banking crisis in 2008. It's the whole fucking culture. It's been devoured by greed. The market is all there is left. Why is that?

M4V3R is guilty alright. But I'm sure MPOE-PR is the last innocent and honest person around.

[MPOE-PR]

One of the richest guys in Europe, Bernard Arnault, is about to be charged with tax fraud, for setting up mailbox companies in Belgium to avoid taxes in France. Ok this is a bit off topic, but stuff like that seriously pisses me off. No sense of morality whatsoever.

The missing sense of morality is wholly on the part of scum that promise other scum distributions of other people's money.

It's not your money, it's his money. It makes no difference what your socialist liar told you. You personally, and the socialist you voted for are immoral. Arnault is simply the victim of your out of control cupidity. That you'd have the gall to claim the opposite is exactly in line with what we'd expect from scum, the thief that yells "thief!" and all that.

The market is all there is left. Why is that?

The market, Scarlet. The market is the only thing that matters, the only thing that lasts....

[amano]

The missing sense of morality is wholly on the part of scum that promise other scum distributions of other people's money.

Nope, the missing sence of morality is greed: some folks just have no limit, never have enough.
It'l like Boulimia nervosa, but with money. In my book, these people are sick, suffer from a psychological disorder, and should be treated, not praised.

It's not your money, it's his money.

True, can't argue with that. But again, still dodging taxes? When will he have enough ?

It makes no difference what your socialist liar told you. You personally, and the socialist you voted for are immoral.

Nobody told me nothing, I make up my own mind. And I do not vote for socialists.

Arnault is simply the victim of your out of control cupidity. That you'd have the gall to claim the opposite is exactly in line with what we'd expect from scum, the thief that yells "thief!" and all that.

Nope, Arnauld is the victim of his psychological disorder. He, and all the others he's scammed out of their money, all victims of his disease ..

The market is all there is left. Why is that?

The market, Scarlet. The market is the only thing that matters, the only thing that lasts....

Bull. The market doesn't matter, humans matter, the market seems to have forgotten that.
Why? Greed ...

[enlightened]

@MPOE-PR:
Capitalism without restraint is as inhuman as communism.
The market has no conscience. What about people "the market" has no use for because they're ill or diabled? Shall they starve?
There has to be a social balance which can only be achieved through taxation of high incomes.
And please stop being judge over morality or immorality. Stop calling others liars or thieves. You are not right nor are the others right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of which none is better than the other. Do you really think you are the one who knows the ultimate truth on a subject that has been being discussed over for the last 100 years with great intellectuals on both sides?

But on-topic again:
I my opinion all this is not a problem of Bitcoin but could have happened with any currency. I just hope the idea of enhancing the site with better features will work out. Through has (yet late) honesty some people might trust him again. And some of those who still have frozen coins probably want the site to be successful again and are going to use it anyway.

[morda]

Did you claim your loss in the liquidation process? If so we should be able to find you on the list of creditors. Soon including the exact amount.

Yes, I've sent the claim a while ago.

Best to take down the side and stop all trades asap, or freeze all trades or whatever - have a message up with link to the forum, email all customers and see if people are want Bitmarket to open again in a few days or weeks.

There is a message on the site - once you log in it really stands out and points to this forums thread. I've also halted all trading, so no one will sell Bitcoins he can't withdraw. Trying to make an offer will also take you to this thread.

even though i lost money because of your site, i will admit that it was good and effective and with time you will get your reputation back if you do things right from now on

what sort of investment do you need?

[enlightened]

please stop being judge over morality or immorality.

I didn't call anyone immoral. This is my opinion, fullstop. Apparently contrary to you I'm able to accept others think differently.

[paraipan]

...
The market has no conscience. What about people "the market" has no use for because they're ill or diabled? Shall they starve?
...

"Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to" - MIB 3

[DeathAndTaxes]

Fucking Bitcoinica and Interscamgo is still fucking up our year. And now they're about to take Bitmarket with them, too? You did the right step admitting to it. These self-proclaimed Bitcoin promoters organizing conferences have no idea just how much they have sustainably hurt the entire Bitcoin project. Thank goodness you're not Patrick Strateman covering lies with more lies. I really hope you can set this right. Everyone will be horribly disappointed now and call you a scammer but I wish you have a chance to get out of this mess. 

Um he did lie to you.  He lied (by omission) when he took depositor funds and used them in a speculative, unregulated manner without disclosing it.   He also lied when Bitcoinica failed and he was insolvent.  He continued to lie for over a year hiding this material fact from depositors including new ones who deposited funds into an entity they were unaware was massively in debt (good money after bad).

He didn't "come clean" he simply couldn't payout withdraws (much like a ponzi) and had no choice but to admit the issue. 

You call that honest?   Really?  Until that attitude changes Bitcoin related enterprises are simply ripe for failure.

[BCB]

Really!!??

BitMarket.eu and it's operators should be put on a bitcoin black list.  I understand that current creditors want to hold hope of getting their money back.

Ask  mybitcoin creditor how that worked out for them.

or Bitcoinica creditors.

or Bitfloor creditors.

etc.

The funds are gone and your hopes of being paid back only buy these operators time to magically solve a problem that never should have happened in the first play.

And how is that donation effort working out for you?
http://blockchain.info/address/1Km5GFMat1DXcbvMTeH9ZvLGKvFCLBA9dM

No sympathy here.  Sorry.

[owowo]

Well. Nicely done. Add it to the mybitcoin list. Greed always gets you funked up in the end, unless you can print. Even if you are an experienced roulette black/red player, there is always the 0!

And to the OFF Topic. It's simple! If you are high income you want to keep as much as possible, if you are low income: TAX THE RICH!
100 years of discussions by highly intellectual people, like Keynes, solved!

But I guess since I'm not highly intellectual, I would say the truth must be somewhere in the middle. But on the other hand, some say there is no truth, others say everyone lives through his own truth. In the end it's all LIES!

[M4v3R]

Um he did lie to you.  He lied (by omission) when he took depositor funds and used them in a speculative, unregulated manner without disclosing it.   He also lied when Bitcoinica failed and he was insolvent.  He continued to lie for over a year hiding this material fact from depositors including new ones who deposited funds into an entity they were unaware was massively in debt (good money after bad).

I agree with you. I lied, to cover up the situation, hoping it could be resolved quicker without pissing anyone off. And by that I ended only worsening the situation. I should notify everyone about this right after the fact, but that seems obvious only now - back then it seemed a good solution.

He didn't "come clean" he simply couldn't payout withdraws (much like a ponzi) and had no choice but to admit the issue.

I will somewhat  "come clean" from this after this gets resolved. And even then, people still will have right to be angry over this because I made their funds frozen for such long time.

But please, don't put me in the same bag with mybitcoin. The guy just dissapeared with people's funds and provided no solution for this. Also, his core business was storing the coins safely, which he completely broke. I on the other hand did everything in my power to provide great exchange experience, and this was going quite well I think. It's a shane that I failed on the storage part...

[mralbi]

you should come up with a VERY GOOD plan to solve the situation quite soon. Do not dissappoint your creditors  a second time, my motivation to simply put you into jail goes up every day the more it comes out on how long yiu lied about the situation

[kneim]

@M4v3R

I believe that you are honest.

But obviously you are a mere trader. What I know of going short and long is that serious dealers want to stabilize their assets with this, something like an insurance. But your large shorting shows to me you did not believe in Bitcoins. What a pity!

I have lost many Bitcoins with GLBSE (and got back around the fifth part until now), and have learned my lesson. Happily I leaved bitmarket.eu some months ago because of security reasons. And I have little money/Bitcoins on the other trading platforms.

I used bitmarket.eu for a year very successfully, had a trading fee of 0.5%, and was helped on issues by the support. I will soon donate 10 Bitcoins (or some more, it depends) to you. I will get them back on the next (temporary) price dump.

As an anticyclic trader anyone can hedge or manipulate as much as he want, I like it.

Trust is a very expensive value even now in this world, it's now gone.

Regards
kneim

[kneim]

The market, Scarlet. The market is the only thing that matters, the only thing that lasts....

Bangsters are lying to you all the time, not telling you what they do with your money (Lehman Brothers). This is the market today!

[kneim]

Goldman Sachs can make arrangements with the government, how they did after dealing with John Paulson. Now you cannot call this fraud, because the court found them not guilty. http://theovertonsalon.com/2010/04/16/goldman-sachs-and-fraud/ The damage has to be caught by normal people. This is the market!

Small people like M4v3R cannot make such arrangements. This is the difference. They have to pay it itself, like the people that bought expensive houses in the US without sufficient income.

[repentance]

But please, don't put me in the same bag with mybitcoin. The guy just dissapeared with people's funds and provided no solution for this. Also, his core business was storing the coins safely, which he completely broke. I on the other hand did everything in my power to provide great exchange experience, and this was going quite well I think. It's a shane that I failed on the storage part...

You cannot be serious.  You stole user funds.  Whether you "invested" them with Bitcoinica, used them to play at the casino, bought lottery tickets with them, used them to play the stock market, placed them with pirate, or spent them on hookers and blow is irrelevant.  Risking other people's funds without their permission is not doing "everything in my power to provide great exchange experience".  If people wanted to risk shorting on Bitcoinica they would have done that themselves rather than leaving their funds with you for safe-keeping.

Don't blame Bitcoinica for the fact that you misappropriated user funds.  That's like blaming the trainer if you'd taken user funds and bet on a losing horse at the race track.