BitMarket.Eu has closed down

[unixdude]

My personal opinion is, that we should not try to earn back the money with fees. If the fees are too high people would simply use MtGox or other sites.

Fully agree, it must stay competitive

We only have a chance when we can develop something new and unique

yes move the bitcoin environment out of shonky backyard operators and create the only exchange u can trust. maybe three level security, like hot wallet, cold storage, and  "deep" cold storage where it would need, say 5 people to cross-sign to access  (if technical possible).

New features must be the core of a revived side as well as ongoing development, unlike before, a stagnant side hoping someone signs up.

It takes more then that to create a secure exchange let alone a secure site.  If you want some advice I can more then likely get a certified security auditor to come on and detail you a list of requirements.  As the exchange should be regarded as a financial institution although it doesn't handle credit cards or debit card transactions it should still be as secure as a site that does and to put it nicely having a php website with a mysql database which sits on the same server as the web application,  with poorly implemented iptables and a phpmyadmin page open to the world doesn't really scream I am secure to me.  Not to mention the person who essentially stole 17k bitcoins initially is still involved with the site - If I saw all that I wouldn't touch it with a pole.

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[manfred]

It takes more then that to create a secure exchange  let alone a secure site.  If you want some advice I can more then likely get a certified security auditor to come on and detail you a list of requirements.  As the exchange should be regarded as a financial institution although it doesn't handle credit cards or debit card transactions it should still be as secure as a site that does and to put it nicely having a php website with a mysql database which sits on the same server as the web application,  with poorly implemented iptables and a phpmyadmin page open to the world doesn't really scream I am secure to me.  Not to mention the person who essentially stole 17k bitcoins initially is still involved with the site - If I saw all that I wouldn't touch it with a pole.

So with other words not bitmarked.eu is dead but bitcoins because lets face it no exchange would pass. This is exactly why it can be one opportunity to move away from the shanigans the whole bitcoin environment is in. As it stands its only a matter of time before the next shifty move is uncovered, minor or major. its about as buggy as any microsoft code, the moment u fix one hole another pops up, yet bitcoin raises and raises.

[unixdude]

It takes more then that to create a secure exchange  let alone a secure site.  If you want some advice I can more then likely get a certified security auditor to come on and detail you a list of requirements.  As the exchange should be regarded as a financial institution although it doesn't handle credit cards or debit card transactions it should still be as secure as a site that does and to put it nicely having a php website with a mysql database which sits on the same server as the web application,  with poorly implemented iptables and a phpmyadmin page open to the world doesn't really scream I am secure to me.  Not to mention the person who essentially stole 17k bitcoins initially is still involved with the site - If I saw all that I wouldn't touch it with a pole.

So with other words not bitmarked.eu is dead but bitcoins because lets face it no exchange would pass. This is exactly why it can be one opportunity to move away from the shanigans the whole bitcoin environment is in. As it stands its only a matter of time before the next shifty move is uncovered, minor or major. its about as buggy as any microsoft code, the moment u fix one hole another pops up, yet bitcoin raises and raises.

It's not dead it just means there is a big opportunity there for people who have the knowledge and money to invest to create a an actual secure market for trades, any thing connected to the internet can be hacked it is all about mitigating the risk against it. My personal opinion is the exchanges need to have over site by a body similar  to the PCI Security Standards Council and actually be accountable to someone and face penalties for shoddy security practices.  At the very least these exchanges should perform security audits by approved ISA's and have regular sites scans done by an ASV such as Qualys. Until this is done I seriously doubt any sort of mass acceptance of bitcoin by large merchants.

[xyz]

ok thanks for the link, i will check if this is something

Of course we should use all possible sources for money to invest in this site - if there is no other way... But if there is any chance that the site can start again without money from EU and other "official fiat-money sources" this would be much better in my opinion!!!
I have a good feeling since a man like you is involved! I like your open kind to tell us your name, your company, your interests and so on... And that all, BEFORE you really know all what happened here. I would suggest after we know what are the new conditions and plans to start a second questionnaire whether and how much the old customer would invest in the site! For example I have hold-on about 15 bitcoins, but I have on another (till now sure) site about 50 coins. I would invest half of them in bitmarket if I see a good program for it! I know this is not very much... but maybe other (more rich) customer would do the same!?

[manfred]

Until this is done I seriously doubt any sort of mass acceptance of bitcoin by large merchants.

Large merchants or multi-international corporations dont have to (eventually they will) accept bitcoins thats where bitmarket.eu steps in. as well as being an exchange it can also be a gatway, similar to the guys at pizzaforcoins.  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21427505
of-course there markup is way to high.
Bitcoins its like a runaway train u either jump on it or get run over.

[mentore]

at the end we can say that the scam bitmarket was a success ...

but I do not stop, I want my money, and I go ahead , you bastards pigs

[pazor]

@administrator of bitmarket.eu

when can we expect the reopening of bitmarket.eu ?
i hope very soon !

[mralbi]

@mentor, using curse words will not help i assume....


We will have the official information how to proceed quite soon i hope, the drafts for the communications are about to be ready, but some details still need to be revamped.

Reopening however would also not happen over night, we need to discuss a lot about security / financial issues / organisational issues. Especially to avoid that mistakes from the past could repeat.

[GsR]

at the end we can say that the scam bitmarket was a success ...

but I do not stop, I want my money, and I go ahead , you bastards pigs

I think that you have to respect other people that are spending their time and money to try to find a solution that can help who has lost bitcoins, including you
Also remember that time is money .... and they are investing their time for free.

[mentore]

at the end we can say that the scam bitmarket was a success ...

but I do not stop, I want my money, and I go ahead , you bastards pigs

I think that you have to respect other people that are spending their time and money to try to find a solution that can help who has lost bitcoins, including you
Also remember that time is money .... and they are investing their time for free.

are you sure they are looking for a solution ?

is easier than doing party with our money with prostitutes and drug, but I hope with all my heart, that it is as you say, and you can find a solution

[mralbi]

at least i did never see a single bitcent of the 18.000 somewhat lost coins, i could have done quite some party with my 618 frozen coins though..... ;-)

[becoin]

are you sure they are looking for a solution ?

Well, there is only one way you can be sure about that. It is well known for centuries. It is called bankruptcy procedure!

[mralbi]

we decided not to go this way, as the majority of the users did not want to go into liquidation, but expressed their interest to cooperate with the new investors instead. If you are one of the few non-cooperative persons, you should send in an "official" claim to Maciej including best possible evidence on how much you think you should get paid back (in FIAT currency, not bitcoin) and we will check your case and handle it individually.  (depending on how much coins you have frozen etc.). More information will follow within the next days I assume.

[manfred]

are you sure they are looking for a solution ?

Well, there is only one way you can be sure about that. It is well known for centuries. It is called bankruptcy procedure!

Yes it is well know for centuries that i can expect less than 10% return of my investment in a bankruptcy procedure. so for my 110.9 frozen bitcoins i would receive in a best case scenario 70 - 90 Euro. 110.9 x 10.56 x 0.06 
10.56 is the last closing price before the company shut up shop. court and solicitors expenses would come of too. so if i am lucky i get an get an ice-cream for my 110.9 BTC

[becoin]

we decided not to go this way, as the majority of the users did not want to go into liquidation, but expressed their interest to cooperate with the new investors instead.

I hope customers were not intentionally misguided to believe that "liquidation" under bankruptcy procedure means dismantling of the service and website?

so for my 110.9 frozen bitcoins i would receive in a best case scenario 70 - 90 Euro. 110.9 x 10.56 x 0.06 

When will you understand that there are no "frozen" coins or "fried" coins or any other special kind of coins? Your coins are gone! There are no coins at all. What is left is only the obligation of the current owner! He will give nothing back to you until he faces the real possibility of serving a prison term.

[unixdude]

I am waiting to see how this unfolds. The recent theft of coins is due to negligence of the owner and not even using basic security procedures for the site - you never have phpmyadmin open to the world at least lock it down to your own ip address or better still use a vpn and connect to the LAN of your server that way to admin the database.  The initial theft of coins again down to the admin who stole the coins in a very real sense.

If a satisfactory solution is not found where I am able to get all my lost coins back I may pursue the legal route - I may not get anything back but at least  he learns an important lesson and hopefully serves a prison term.

I noticed he uses a Mac for development from the web logs so I'm calling dibbs on that when it is sold  

[mralbi]

well, the site is already closed down, liquidation means simply paying out of current assets and thats it. But it will not happen, we have requested from everyone with frozen coins an answer on how to proceed and we have received enough support to try set up a new site instead of going through the bankruptcy procedure. The people that do not want to cooperate will be handled individually. But as a next step there will be a kick-off meeting in Helsinki on 15th of March with the investors on all details for the new site,  the official invitation will follow soon i hope. And yes, it is public unless 100 people intend to come *g , so everyone can join us and discuss the plans.

The investment sums unfortunatley come soley from our "private" money, so we cannot expect any wonders and we have a tight budget and all support is welcome. But as already said, the "official" communication(s) will follow hopefully tomorrow at latest

[becoin]

we have requested from everyone with frozen coins an answer

There are no "frozen" coins as already explained above. I think if you have told them that they have no frozen coins but just coins that are gone, their answer would have been quite different!

The investment sums unfortunatley come soley from our "private" money, so we cannot expect any wonders

I can't think of any reason that will make an investor burn their money in such a way. May be the only reason I can think of is if the purpose of such an investment is to bail out current owner! From every 100 stolen bitcoins 30 bitcoins will be "invested" back, so everybody will be happy or at least have hope that their "frozen" coins will be unfrozen at sometime next century.

[manfred]

Lets differentiate between fact and fantasy. fact is bitmarket owes its customers about 800 000 Polish Zloty (18 000 BTC when the company went belly up). Fantasy, is quote

get all my lost coins back

. I take this option any day but its a dream and nothing else.
Personally i could not care less if he gets a life sentence. I dont know the guy and live thousands of k's away from him. All i want is all my BTC back  

He will give nothing back to you until he faces the real possibility of serving a prison term.

Everybody faces the real possibility of a prison term if he steps out of the systems guide lines including Maciej. i did not stop him or others to not play by the ruels. It boils down to two options
a; Maciej works for us.
b: we work for Maciej (jail).

It seems like a compromise will be a small miracle. The only thing i can invest is my money owed.

The break-in (walk-in, what ever u want to call it) for the 624 BTC does not make the task easier.

On the bright side there is new and innovative things happen with BTCs all the time.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57570925-38/need-bitcoins-this-atm-takes-dollars-and-funds-your-account/

 

[mralbi]

if the coins are "frozen" or "boiled" or "lost" indeed does not make any difference.

And whatever.... i also agree there will not be much real profit from this project and it would need a miracle to pay back lost coins in any reasonable time... BUT
for me the chance is simply that now many stakeholders can really find together and set up a new project from scratch while some skilled developers are "forced" from the debt situation to help out and develop a new website that meets all the requirements we (the "forced creditors") have in mind!. I know the debts are high and everyone is right to be upset...., but this is really a one time chance to set up everthing from scratch, exactly the way we want it to be. Maciej is willing to cooperate and thats far better than any emotional discussion on how bad everyone is.

Maciej knows what i am talking about, i gave him also a hard time some time in between with also shouting and so on and we had many differences on how to handle th situation etc *g But in the end my proposal is: lets stick together and start this new project not only for the sake of paying back frozen coins, but also for the bitcoin community (=thats us) and lets make the best out of the situation. At least i am willing to invest my little spare time i have plus some money (in addition to "lost/frozen" coins) to make it happen and i would be glad more people would like to join.