BitMarket.Eu has closed down

[Grouver (BtcBalance)]

I do not have a Ebay account.
I don't feel comfortable using the Bitcoin-OTC channel
Coinpal is down

How do I proof myself that iam trust worthy in a other way?

[redhatzero]

Either I haven't seen it, or it's nowhere noted... How do the donations work? Are they subtracted every time I sent BTC to my deposit adress (that's what I would like...)? Or whenever I create a sell offer.. or or or

[M4v3R]

@rethatzero: I noted it in the announce post. The donated Bitcoins are substracted from your account balance in the moment the transaction get's confirmed (i.e. you as a seller click "Send BTC"). If you happen to sell all BTC you have, it will still be substracted from your balance and you will end up with negative amount. This is because it could be troublesome for sellers to calculate what amount exactly they should put in to fit if we have done it in other way - that way it's totally inobtrusive.

[sonba]

One further question re PayPal: I never allowed it. in the begining there was presumably a bug in the script which matched me with people who were only willing to pay with PayPal. As to my understanding this was solved and doesn't happen any more. I still got buyers from time to time who say they only pay via PayPal or not at all. Is that some bug in the matching algorythm or just some buyers who are too dumb to deselect national transfer?

PS: In the few occasions where I allowed PayPal all buyers always paid the fees so far without trouble. I did the same as yossarian and refunded it if it was without fees.

[maninas]

@Makhul: Wouldn't it have been easier to just strongly emphasize that the buyer has to pay all paypal fees? Before the buyer accepts paypal as a payment method, you could open up a pop-up window that states his obligation to pay the fees again, so he has to actively agree on this point. You could also link to a paypal-fee calculation site. Again, I've made the experience that the majority of buyers are willing to pay the fees once this is pointed out to them. It's just a matter of how this rule is communicated via bitmarket and the sellers. And how it is enforced if the buyers is unwilling to comply. As discussed before, a rating system would help here, too.

That obligatory agreement I think would work well, and I find it as the best solution to this problem. I've always made it clear in my automated mail as a seller, that they had to click on Send Funds -> Personal tab -> other. This way fees drop down to zero most of the times for them.

I can safely say that this current situation is pretty confusing for most people. Especially since they have to read new rules outside of BitMarket.eu site which is by design wrong. And since Paypal is my only option and I am a miner mainly (thus selling mostly), I have taken a pretty big beating in my income out of the blue.

Obligatory informative popups with instructions how buyers can pay least possible fees like: "Send Funds -> Personal tab -> other" are the best and fairest way. A link to this Paypal Fees calculator could come in handy too http://goo.gl/C9nwk.

I strongly believe you should consider this idea.

I really like BitMarket.eu and I prefer it for many reasons. And I bet you know too, that since every other exchange ditched it and most people have an account of it directrly connected to a bank account and ready to fire, Paypal is your strong niche card. It doesn't make sense to hinder it's exchange this way.

[ISA]

Well, as seller who uses PP only I always paid the fees myself and never bothered to complain to the buyers. Only a few paid the fees themselves.

me 2

[maninas]

I just bought twice doing cross-border transactions through Paypal with the "Send Funds -> Personal tab -> other" option and I can verify that no fees have been subtracted towards the seller both times.

Really, M4v3R, I don't see the reason why we should feed Paypal with Bitcoin economy money when we don't have to! Just implement the obligatory informative popups with instructions, and everyone wins; you, sellers and buyers! (except Paypal I guess, hehe )

You might wanna do it before this rally ends too. Or just make another public official notification that sellers don't have to pay the fees, since you already have the notification platform set up to do so, until you implement the pop-ups.

[M4v3R]

Well, to be honest, I personally used Paypal only once for this task, so I don't have experience with that. Our judgement was based on many complaints, mainly from the sellers, who had problems with other buyers that told them there is no way for them to pay the fees. From what I understand, the most of these concerns came from Germany. I don't know if there's a different law for Paypal in there, or just the buyers were picking the wrong choice.

We will of course try to make rules to satisfy both parties, which is hard I see . If others agree with you, maninas, we will change this rule and apply necessary notifications for buyers.

[sonba]

Yes, I can confirm that. PayPal Germany does NOT allow sending payments as personal (without fee). German sendings will ALWAYS result in the receiver of the paypal money paying a fee. (Hence, payer has to send a higher amount incl. fees). Don't ask me why.

M4v3R - can you maybe comment on whether somebody with buy PayPal and somebody with sell bank transfer can still be matched?

[maninas]

M4v3R - can you maybe comment on whether somebody with buy PayPal and somebody with sell bank transfer can still be matched?

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen. Why should it anyway?

[maninas]

Since I am at it, here is also another thing I've noticed and meant to mention a long time ago. I feel that when Paypal offers don't make it to the Market/EUR board because it only shows 10 Ask offers maximum, they get left out and don't sell until the wire Asks have cleared and these Paypal Asks make it to the "frontpage".

I don't feel that's fair for us that don't have any wire transfer options. :/

[d3athrow]

Not that the loss of ~50 euro isn't annoying but also for the sake of others I attempted to contact the administration of the site about somebody buying coins with a stolen paypal and i had my money taken back due to it. I contacted them but haven't received any response :\

[sonba]

d3athrow, I guess the admins will ban that guy asap. They usually reply to such request within a very short time as soon as they are online. I think it's only two of them so we should allow them some free offline time, as well
I regard to the 50EUR there is nothing that they can do. PayPal is and stays risky. That's why they warn you on their website. Aso have a look here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14635.0

[sonba]

M4v3R - can you maybe comment on whether somebody with buy PayPal and somebody with sell bank transfer can still be matched?

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen. Why should it anyway?

I don't think so, either. But that's what some of the buyers claim from time to time. So, before telling them that that's bs, I wanted to recheck with admins

[Mahkul]

M4v3R - can you maybe comment on whether somebody with buy PayPal and somebody with sell bank transfer can still be matched?

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen. Why should it anyway?

I don't think so, either. But that's what some of the buyers claim from time to time. So, before telling them that that's bs, I wanted to recheck with admins

@Sonba: This is not happening and it never was. The buyers must have had SEPA or Foreign transfer selected as well. It is amazing how some people don't bother to check the settings before saying something. we have tested this very thoroughly at first and this had been always working fine.

Now, with the new features in place where you can set payment methods separately for each offer this should not be an issue anymore.

[sonba]

ok, thanks for the confirmation Mahkul!

[d3athrow]

d3athrow, I guess the admins will ban that guy asap. They usually reply to such request within a very short time as soon as they are online. I think it's only two of them so we should allow them some free offline time, as well
I regard to the 50EUR there is nothing that they can do. PayPal is and stays risky. That's why they warn you on their website. Aso have a look here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14635.0

never expected the money back, at most the bitcoins if they were still on the offending account. At the very least i would expect a reply saying that something was done about a stolen paypal account :\

[Mahkul]

Not that the loss of ~50 euro isn't annoying but also for the sake of others I attempted to contact the administration of the site about somebody buying coins with a stolen paypal and i had my money taken back due to it. I contacted them but haven't received any response :\

This is the only email that I have: "apparently order ID 03960 was paid for using a stolen paypal account, thought you should know this."

We have had a few situations like that before, and ALWAYS it turned out that it was f* Paypal reverting the funds for no reason (oh yes, they "thought" that it got stolen).

Did you try to contact the buyer at all? He is a respected member of BitMarket and I am sure it is just Paypal acting up as usual.

[maninas]

Mahkul, any comments on the suggestion I made in my last post?

[M4v3R]

To ensure everyone's safety, we have reset passwords on all accounts that had same username on MtGox and on BitMarket.eu.

Anyone affected will see a note while logging in prompting him to use password recovery procedure (via his email) to set up a new password.