[PND]Pandacoin | First Hybrid Wallet | 5000% Faster Blockchain Download | Instant Sync

[mtrycz]

Hey all,

It is with much sadness that I find myself having to make this announcement, usually I am a builder and do everything in my power to encourage people to carry on, and to bring hope, and that it is what I have tried to do over the last few weeks.
So it is difficult to find myself in a position where I am instead going to reverse my position and tell people to give up on something and cut their losses before they are hurt further. However there are things that must be said and based on these things I feel it is now the best course of action, the only ethical thing for me to do is to advise people against investing any further time or money in this coin.


Firstly, you will have noticed that despite my ultimatum and various impationed pleading on IRC by various community members that have given their all to their coins, amDOGE continues to flirt all responsibility, ignore everyone and won't make a basic statement. This is of course not a good sign for the coin, though nobody expects much from her ignoring people like a child at the time when the coin needs leadership is a disgrace and an insult to everyone who places trust in her.

Anyway unfortunately that isn't even what this post is about, there is more.
In my previous communications I stated that after dissapearing bdanyos accounts remained dormant - and that based on this and other things we could not believe that he was a scammer, as such myself and ozzke believed that something bad may have happened to him as it did not make sense.
Unfortunately this situation has changed, this weekend I decided to dig up the account information and look at it again, and to my surprise - at almost the same time as I made my announcement (around 4-5 March) about what was going on - the bdanyo accounts all sprung into action.
You can see them here:
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PNsD4AfYexQtuVRApcXyfjYAqZwPvagsLf
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PBYhqaA3YFbc1LXKTDpPFqBqPMP33eSiQE
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PBMjW35Ur4BpzQQ2V7sN5yqHMqqZhoY2De
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PSXKAXtZgRbdzcdNcE29UCZZ25wcHPsQpG
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PJmv2p7yx1pct3EsJM1RLiBmj58S3wzQFD

All of these accounts have been emptied into other accounts, following the blockchain trail around some of these other accounts have lots of deposits of 999998 PND into them (this is the maximum you can withdraw from bitrex at one time)
From what I can tell a lot of it ends up here:
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PQ1KbkoaEWdpYLfsaUGmbv5LmB7i1huL49
An account with 1.5 billion PND sitting in it, a substantial amount of PND. The blockchain trail is a mess and difficult to follow and of course he may have other further accounts on bittrex that haven't been emptied into ......

Hi MaNI, Hold your horses!

I'm affraid your assumptions are incorrect.

PQ1KbkoaEWdpYLfsaUGmbv5LmB7i1huL49 belongs to me and I am in no way associated with any PND devs.

Are you saying that it's not bdanyo's wallet, and it's not bdanyo manipulation?

what's up with that?

[1714647108]

1714647108

[1714647108]

1714647108

[VultureFund]

The reason why PND will not die is quite simple. There are no infinite PND, the pro dumpers and panic dumpers will soon run out of PND at these prices. Just during last month, MORE THAN 125 BTC has been invested in this coin and more than 25% of PND supply has changed of hands. Do you really think that this new "crazy" investors will simply let this die and forget about it?!

Rule number one in crypto: Buy when everyone says a coin is dead, sell when everyone says moon. Where is PND?

[slaithe]

quite a lot of action for something claimed to be dead. O.O

[Eastwind]

The reason why PND will not die is quite simple. There are no infinite PND, the pro dumpers and panic dumpers will soon run out of PND at these prices. Just during last month, MORE THAN 125 BTC has been invested in this coin and more than 25% of PND supply has changed of hands. Do you really think that this new "crazy" investors will simply let this die and forget about it?!

Rule number one in crypto: Buy when everyone says a coin is dead, sell when everyone says moon. Where is PND?

Why no infinite PND? Is PND a PoS coin with certain interest?

[dreambox700]

Dead! 

[VultureFund]

The reason why PND will not die is quite simple. There are no infinite PND, the pro dumpers and panic dumpers will soon run out of PND at these prices. Just during last month, MORE THAN 125 BTC has been invested in this coin and more than 25% of PND supply has changed of hands. Do you really think that this new "crazy" investors will simply let this die and forget about it?!

Rule number one in crypto: Buy when everyone says a coin is dead, sell when everyone says moon. Where is PND?

Why no infinite PND? Is PND a PoS coin with certain interest?

PoS with 2.5% yearly interest. Considering major cryptos inflation including BTC, we can say that PND is a limited supply coin.

[SellPNDforDOGE]

The reason why PND will not die is quite simple. There are no infinite PND, the pro dumpers and panic dumpers will soon run out of PND at these prices. Just during last month, MORE THAN 125 BTC has been invested in this coin and more than 25% of PND supply has changed of hands. Do you really think that this new "crazy" investors will simply let this die and forget about it?!

Rule number one in crypto: Buy when everyone says a coin is dead, sell when everyone says moon. Where is PND?

Vulture speaks the truth, stop selling your coins NOW!!! Your all being silly it's time to buy and not sell. The coin price can easily go over 10sat without much investment.

[rastab48]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

[Pelgoran98]

The reason why PND will not die is quite simple. There are no infinite PND, the pro dumpers and panic dumpers will soon run out of PND at these prices. Just during last month, MORE THAN 125 BTC has been invested in this coin and more than 25% of PND supply has changed of hands. Do you really think that this new "crazy" investors will simply let this die and forget about it?!

Rule number one in crypto: Buy when everyone says a coin is dead, sell when everyone says moon. Where is PND?

Vulture speaks the truth, stop selling your coins NOW!!! Your all being silly it's time to buy and not sell. The coin price can easily go over 10sat without much investment.

SellPNDforDOGE, you are a "Newbie" with such sage advice? I think not, dear.

[Tears on Dope]

The reason why PND will not die is quite simple. There are no infinite PND, the pro dumpers and panic dumpers will soon run out of PND at these prices. Just during last month, MORE THAN 125 BTC has been invested in this coin and more than 25% of PND supply has changed of hands. Do you really think that this new "crazy" investors will simply let this die and forget about it?!

Rule number one in crypto: Buy when everyone says a coin is dead, sell when everyone says moon. Where is PND?

Vulture speaks the truth, stop selling your coins NOW!!! Your all being silly it's time to buy and not sell. The coin price can easily go over 10sat without much investment.

SellPNDforDOGE, you are a "Newbie" with such sage advice? I think not, dear.

its amdoge she wont stop hiding in the closet

[milo69]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

Anyone with a modicum of hope  should read rastab's above post over and over and OVER again..  It's the most logical thing that has been posted in a while.

Building on the questions..  

Who was responsible for the biggest innovations? (i.e. switching from PoW to PoS? Was this amDOGE? If so, it would be good to hear from her, not an alias, etc. to find out what plans she supposedly had for the coin, and if she is still motivated to see any future innovations brought to PND)

There is NO way that all of the assets of PND were orchestrated for the purpose of financial scam. I don't think it would have been possible to even cash in on it, because there simply isn't enough volume to trade huge blocks like that. Whoever were the original devs,  they created something with some real belief behind it. You can't make a wallet like this, all the website details, innovation to the coin code, etc., as an arm-chair hobby. That took a lot of time and investment from a few good / great people.

The real question is, even if they are gone, when the dust finally settles, can we eventually find a new group of people that are willing to continue developing  VALUE ADDED FEATURES that inherently brought visibility to the last re-birth of PND?  You can't market a coin if it's a shit coin.  PND isn't a shit coin..  Get a new group of devs with some real motivation to INNOVATE.  Get past this setback, cut through the nonsense, and the coin will have a new day.  

Who owns all of the assets of PND?  Who contributed the most to it's development? If the answer is amDOGE, I find it puzzling to say the least why someone with so much talent and ability remains in silence when she has the biggest voice in determining what if any possible next steps exist.  If she has checked out, she could at least offer to hand over the code and website controls to the community, and let someone step up to the plate to take it in a new direction.

[Joori]

Whilst PND will not die due to it's reasonable inflation and people staking the coin. The fact remains, that without a proper wallet dev to iron out bugs (which there are) and bring new features (as they were planned), there isn't really much left for the coin except wait for someone to pump it or w/e.

PND brang about alot of innovation, some of which BTC has even started using, such as their increased sync capabilities in their latest release. You could spend some of the coin @ coinpayments such as one fellow did buying up 60m worth of stuff tho the owner of the store now finds himself in a pickle and unable to trade that coin for btc.

The top address holds just over 2.3bn pnd, the top 5 collectively hold just under 20% and the top 100 hold roughly 63% of the total supply. +/- a few %. At the end of the day, you're free to do as you please but don't count on any of the original dev's/contributors to advance coin development any further as I doubt they want to now.

amDOGE won't make any statements, at least that's the vibe on irc, so i wouldn't hold my breath for that. From what is understood she/he overseas the builds which were a chore to get him/her to do anyway come release time. Mani is/was the driving force behind code development for the wallet, everything you see from the time the wallet became Pandabank is pretty much Mani's doing... Source would be released for building which amDOGE was in charge of (win/linux/mac) and that would take quite a bit of nagging to get done from what i hear. amDOGE is the founder and that's pretty much it as far as development goes. Multiple attempts have been made for an 'official' statement but none have been produced so far and i doubt one will be... I'm pretty sure there will be no future developments unless someone wants to continue developing the coin and steps up to the plate, however you'd have to also get all the accounts associated with the coin such as social media and the like. For that, you'd have to directly ask amDOGE/pandacoin-official if you can catch him/her online

It's sad when a good coin gets screwed like this especially when so much has gone into it but you win some and you lose some i guess... But all that aside, the coin was created to fight and kill wolong's scam coin and it did that relatively easily and effectively so i guess you could say, it's done it's purpose.

Just my 2 PND (i actually have 2 pnd left cause of silly rounding bug in the wallet).

[mtrycz]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

That's exactly how I feel at this point.

8(

[teastman1000]

What? Who is still working for the others? MaNI? Nope he is going to another coin.

LOL,
his whole purpose was to cause the PND is dead Dump,
just a cover story to trick the clueless.
They are playing you dude, read between the lines.
Read their forums from the beginning, this is like the 3rd time they have played the investors.

Whose forums? How do you know this?

[fusi0n]

Hey all,

It is with much sadness that I find myself having to make this announcement, usually I am a builder and do everything in my power to encourage people to carry on, and to bring hope, and that it is what I have tried to do over the last few weeks.
So it is difficult to find myself in a position where I am instead going to reverse my position and tell people to give up on something and cut their losses before they are hurt further. However there are things that must be said and based on these things I feel it is now the best course of action, the only ethical thing for me to do is to advise people against investing any further time or money in this coin.


Firstly, you will have noticed that despite my ultimatum and various impationed pleading on IRC by various community members that have given their all to their coins, amDOGE continues to flirt all responsibility, ignore everyone and won't make a basic statement. This is of course not a good sign for the coin, though nobody expects much from her ignoring people like a child at the time when the coin needs leadership is a disgrace and an insult to everyone who places trust in her.

Anyway unfortunately that isn't even what this post is about, there is more.
In my previous communications I stated that after dissapearing bdanyos accounts remained dormant - and that based on this and other things we could not believe that he was a scammer, as such myself and ozzke believed that something bad may have happened to him as it did not make sense.
Unfortunately this situation has changed, this weekend I decided to dig up the account information and look at it again, and to my surprise - at almost the same time as I made my announcement (around 4-5 March) about what was going on - the bdanyo accounts all sprung into action.
You can see them here:
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PNsD4AfYexQtuVRApcXyfjYAqZwPvagsLf
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PBYhqaA3YFbc1LXKTDpPFqBqPMP33eSiQE
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PBMjW35Ur4BpzQQ2V7sN5yqHMqqZhoY2De
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PSXKAXtZgRbdzcdNcE29UCZZ25wcHPsQpG
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PJmv2p7yx1pct3EsJM1RLiBmj58S3wzQFD

All of these accounts have been emptied into other accounts, following the blockchain trail around some of these other accounts have lots of deposits of 999998 PND into them (this is the maximum you can withdraw from bitrex at one time)
From what I can tell a lot of it ends up here:
http://pnd.showed.us/address/PQ1KbkoaEWdpYLfsaUGmbv5LmB7i1huL49
An account with 1.5 billion PND sitting in it, a substantial amount of PND. The blockchain trail is a mess and difficult to follow and of course he may have other further accounts on bittrex that haven't been emptied into ......

Hi MaNI, Hold your horses!

I'm affraid your assumptions are incorrect.

PQ1KbkoaEWdpYLfsaUGmbv5LmB7i1huL49 belongs to me and I am in no way associated with any PND devs.

Are you saying that it's not bdanyo's wallet, and it's not bdanyo manipulation?

what's up with that?

MaNI has made some major assumptions in his post and as a result caused even more panic in the community.

As I said that address belongs to me and can prove it (if required in this ever non-believing crypto world)

[fusi0n]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

Some sense right here!

[SellPNDforDOGE]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

Some sense right here!

fusi0n is the smartest person in this community besides amDoge. fusi0n speaks the truth and has no reason to hype the coin. Listen to him. 1 million PND is so cheap now, just buy some and you could be a real millionaire one day. Take the risk.

[sonihr]

fusi0n is the smartest person in this community besides amDoge. fusi0n speaks the truth and has no reason to hype the coin. Listen to him. 1 million PND is so cheap now, just buy some and you could be a real millionaire one day. Take the risk.

So from what you are saying we need to buy PND then sell it for DOGE?

Are you confused with all your fake accounts?

[STOPBEINGREEDY]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

This moment is extremely sad. What happened to the dev team was simple burnout under all the work which was done without regular pay. And they all bdanyo ozzke and amdoge did amazingly well. the only thing to keep em going really was guts alone and hope that rewards will come when PND finally grows in value. Guys, guts and beleif in a cause do not pay bills and put food on the table. Remember that bitcoin received highlevel funding from the winklevoss twins. and the likes of litecoin and dogecoin frankly dont seem to have the ambition that our original devs were actively pouring into Pandacoin. It was burnout and lack of real investment that has brought Pnd coin to this place. IT WAS NOT AN INTENTION TO SCAM. If anyone is going to try and revive this coin (i really hope some good people with the neccessary skills step up)......There must be transparency/communication at everyturn...constant honesty about how much workload is too much for one person...and everyone of the old dev team must be spoken to and about with a little respect. negative words only ever place the speaker on the same level as the object of their criticism. those who are going to lead us forward (if thats possible and i hope it is) need to also lead us in a positive team spirit.
PND for me has been the most inspiring crypto coin since the battle against wolong and everything scammers stand for began.
i also remember when asiacoin bagholders were offered compensation by pnd community (good times). nothing more to be said. whats done is done. must move forward. It's damn hard to let go though. thats my 2cents worth.

[Pelgoran98]

Firstly, I do not doubt the sincerity of Mani's post(s). Secondly, I am not defending the devs (amdoge included) as I feel they have let the community down. That being said, there's a couple things I'd like to point out.

1) I do not believe PND's intention was ever to be a "pump and dump" coin. WAYYY to much work went into the coin for that to be the case imo. I remember when PND was trading for 4-5 liteoshi, and skyrocketed to 800. The dev team could have dumped then and made a killing... they didn't.

2) Assuming Mani's suspicions are correct and bdanyo has acquired ~4 billion PND at or around 1 satoshi... at today's BTC price that's nearly $12,000. That is not pocket change and it simply defies logic that ANYone would invest so much into a coin that appears to be on deaths door. You wouldn't front that much money with no faith it could be recovered.

3) Expanding on "way too much work": Pandacoin.org, the crypto crash course, hybrid wallets, reduced blockchain times, etc... that's a lot of innovations to just toss aside for a quick profit. If the whole intention was to scam people out of their money why bother with all this stuff? Just make a bunch of false promises and dump when everyone panic buys as has happened countless times in cryptos. Aside from the 100k merchants, every promise made was kept.


I'm not saying PND is or isn't dead, I'm just saying the whole shit doesn't make sense.

This moment is extremely sad. What happened to the dev team was simple burnout under all the work which was done without regular pay. And they all bdanyo ozzke and amdoge did amazingly well. the only thing to keep em going really was guts alone and hope that rewards will come when PND finally grows in value. Guys, guts and beleif in a cause do not pay bills and put food on the table. Remember that bitcoin received highlevel funding from the winklevoss twins. and the likes of litecoin and dogecoin frankly dont seem to have the ambition that our original devs were actively pouring into Pandacoin. It was burnout and lack of real investment that has brought Pnd coin to this place. IT WAS NOT AN INTENTION TO SCAM. If anyone is going to try and revive this coin (i really hope some good people with the neccessary skills step up)......There must be transparency/communication at everyturn...constant honesty about how much workload is too much for one person...and everyone of the old dev team must be spoken to and about with a little respect. negative words only ever place the speaker on the same level as the object of their criticism. those who are going to lead us forward (if thats possible and i hope it is) need to also lead us in a positive team spirit.
PND for me has been the most inspiring crypto coin since the battle against wolong and everything scammers stand for began.
i also remember when asiacoin bagholders were offered compensation by pnd community (good times). nothing more to be said. whats done is done. must move forward. It's damn hard to let go though. thats my 2cents worth.

I find it so remarkably odd that there are these sudden "thunder posts" of soulful and economic advice, etc. from all these "newbies." Oh yeah, SellPNDforDOGE, it'll be so easy to get back to 10 sat so you can prosper. My ass. That's just a hard one to believe. It's just like the situation in general: who can you trust? Nobody. What on Earth makes you think PND or any OTHER coin, new, old, or in-between will ever be any different, including the second coming of Jesus, Bitcoin? Human nature makes certain that greed will, in the end, rule the day. Every fucking time. You can't control people. You can't guilt 'em into not pumping and dumping. It's no different than anything else: buy low, sell high. Manipulate the market and its suckers as much as absofuckinglutely possible to that end. Step on heads & necks. It's cool. How do you think the Stock Market works?! And it's all about the scam there. Same here. Again, I'm just holding my stash to be a contrarian. I know it'll never be worth a damn. I'm keepin' it around as a souvenir for what might have been, and as a reminder to quit conning myself. My last point forever: there is no such thing as transparency, or people who you do not personally know that you should ever trust.