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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4641875 times)
PeaMine
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May 24, 2014, 05:49:25 AM
 #3661

Anyone know what is causing the orphans?

http://moneropool.com/#pool_blocks

Would also like to know this, there are so many orphans really getting in the way of profit.
7 orphans in a row, ouch

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the_darkness
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May 24, 2014, 05:53:08 AM
 #3662

Thanks for the answers everyone. More than my initial question - what I really am trying to understand is which type of anonymity DRK vs. MRO has more long term advantages?  Whats the case for one or the other? Or will they simply be competing?

I hold both MRO and DRK and so have thought about this question somewhat carefully. DRK has the advantage of better awareness (particularly with its recent price increase), the familiarity and backend support of using a BTC-based client and associated services, and a large community of holders/miners. The developer, Evan Duffield, is quite visible and had made meaningful development progress. Some of the economic characteristics of the coin, including its relatively low inflation and the masternode system (which ties up coin) tend to encourage price increases. The principal concern for many regarding it is its unequal early distribution ("instamine") which you'll have to decide for yourself how much it bothers you. Another potential criticism is that Darksend is currently closed-source and unvetted, so we have no way of knowing if it will deliver on its promises. In fairness, Evan has stated it will go open source when complete, however.

MRO has the advantage of a truly novel and elegant implementation of anonymity. If a coin's value is determined purely by the anonymity if offers then CryptoNote beats CoinJoin (which underpins Darksend) hands-down. Even the originator of CoinJoin, gmaxwell, has stated as such. The CryptoNote developers, while anonymous, appear to be quite familiar with the academic cryptography literature and have used ring signatures in a clever manner to underpin their coin. Ring signatures are academically vetted and enjoy broad support within the cryptographic community (e.g. Adam Back, the cryptographer who invented hashcash for Bitcoin, tweeted his support). While I think Evan is a great developer amongst the sea of altcoins, he strikes me as more of a coder and less of a cryptographer. He, for example, has reversed himself and decided against using ring signatures. While this decision was ascribed to avoiding bloat in the blockchain, I think it's more likely because he realized implementing ring signatures in a BTC-based coin, particularly one with an already-established blockchain, would be extremely difficult.

The main limiting factor of MRO right now is that because it is not based on BTC, all of the underpinnings users have come to expect (GUI, pools, exchanges, etc.) have to be developed from scratch. This hurts the uptake of the coin and scares off less advanced users. It is possible that DRK could develop a lead in user uptake while these things get sorted out. With that said, I think the progress over one month has been very fast given that deficit; there is also a strong team of experienced developers. Some also criticize MRO as a "clone" of Bytecoin (the original CryptoNote currency marred by its own, bigger, "premine" controversy). While Bytecoin did indeed form the base of MRO, the MRO devs have done a lot to popularize CryptoNote and make it accessible to end users. MRO also has by far the largest net hash and exchange volume of the CryptoNote coins. As we saw with Tenebrix/Litecoin, sometimes being second with a fair launch is what makes the difference in making a coin stick in the long term. Also, the reason DRK is able to avoid having any "clones" currently is because of its aforementioned closed source; this is not really a strength per se as it is unlikely that people will tolerate a closed source coin in the long run, particularly when it comes to anonymity.

Anyway, I think both of these coins have a bright future. While the recent run-up of DRK clearly has elements of irrational exuberance, I do think that, so long as it delivers on its promises, it deserves to be beside Litecoin as one of the most valuable BTC derivatives. For a dark-horse long-term bet though I think MRO is the true second generation cryptocurrency.

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May 24, 2014, 06:01:44 AM
 #3663

I hold both MRO and DRK and so have thought about this question somewhat carefully.
...

Good write-up. Ironically, DRK's original plan was to get the code vetted by CoinJoin inventor gmaxwell and then go open source. They never thought to actually consult gmaxwell on his opinions of DRK. I think they might need someone else. Wink

Another problem worth mentioning, ~80% of the "masternodes" are concentrated in 3 VPS companies. It's a mockery of 'decentralized' and 'trustless'.
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May 24, 2014, 06:18:21 AM
 #3664

Another problem worth mentioning, ~80% of the "masternodes" are concentrated in 3 VPS companies. It's a mockery of 'decentralized' and 'trustless'.

Yes this is somewhat concerning. Beyond that, I am a bit worried about the technical aptitude of some of the masternode operators. Many of them seem to be quite new to setting up and operating a server, leaving me to question how secure the network will be to attack.
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May 24, 2014, 06:30:19 AM
 #3665

I hold both MRO and DRK and so have thought about this question somewhat carefully.
...

Good write-up. Ironically, DRK's original plan was to get the code vetted by CoinJoin inventor gmaxwell and then go open source. They never thought to actually consult gmaxwell on his opinions of DRK. I think they might need someone else. Wink

Another problem worth mentioning, ~80% of the "masternodes" are concentrated in 3 VPS companies. It's a mockery of 'decentralized' and 'trustless'.

Lulz.

What % of holders/miners of any coin are not concentrated between 4 ISPs  - AT&T, AOL Time Warner, Cox and Verizon.. Another problem worth mentioning - who's backbone are those VPS companies using to host? Yup one of those 4 companies the holders/miners use to provide them with internet access.. Either way you look at it decentralization sounds good but at the end of the the day it's just a matter of perspective. The big 4 control both sides of the net.

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May 24, 2014, 06:36:39 AM
 #3666

Anyone know what is causing the orphans?

http://moneropool.com/#pool_blocks

Would also like to know this, there are so many orphans really getting in the way of profit.
7 orphans in a row, ouch

This is a well known problem with the coin design. It really can't work properly at 1 min block time, experts have said (this is above my expertise). There was an attempt to change things earlier, to a 2 minute block time (actually as part of a thread about the emission curve).
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.20

A change to 2 mins block time would help, but there was no agreement, and it would be difficult to do the change over. Perhaps in a few years when most of the coins have been emitted, there will be agreement to do it.
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May 24, 2014, 06:42:57 AM
 #3667

My miner (CPU) is going crazy today. With only a small power of 10 H/s, its submitting nearly 5 shares within a minute.
The pool you are mining on must have a very low share difficulty.

Im thinking minergate. For me it was only at 180 and I was pushing 800h/s to it. Moved away from it though

Minergate will damage the coins list on it, not only the miners.

The Dev Team of MRO should post alert to anyone want to mine their coins in Minergate, untill the withdraw running smoothly.
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May 24, 2014, 07:06:32 AM
 #3668

What is the difference between monero and bytecoin? Is monero just a fork of bytecoin?
polecrab
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May 24, 2014, 07:12:57 AM
 #3669

What is the difference between monero and bytecoin? Is monero just a fork of bytecoin?

This has been answered many times before in this thread.
terver2008
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May 24, 2014, 07:17:20 AM
 #3670

What is the difference between monero and bytecoin? Is monero just a fork of bytecoin?

This has been answered many times before in this thread.

Then why so important information hasn't been added to the first post so far?

Also, please give link or tell briefly about it.
drawingthesun
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May 24, 2014, 07:26:37 AM
 #3671

What is the difference between monero and bytecoin? Is monero just a fork of bytecoin?

This has been answered many times before in this thread.

Then why so important information hasn't been added to the first post so far?

Also, please give link or tell briefly about it.

This is on almost every page.

Bytecoin is the first coin to implement CryptoNote tech.

It has a chain 2 years old but was only released a few months ago. 80% of all Bytecoin that will ever exist are in the hands of the Bytecoin developers, the pre-mine is similar in scope to ripple. (Except they are not admitting it and being deceptive)

The community did not like this, thus Monero was born. Monero was pre announced and it's chain is the correct age for when it was released. That proves no insta-mine or pre-mine.

MRO now has higher hashrate than all other CryptoNote coins combined indicating the community feels this fair launch is just. Also Monero developers have made contribution with speed count, they have made the miners and clients far faster.

It's a more efficient, community driven fork of Bytecoin, the development is active and ongoing at great pace.
eizh
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May 24, 2014, 07:28:20 AM
Last edit: May 24, 2014, 07:46:17 AM by eizh
 #3672

I hold both MRO and DRK and so have thought about this question somewhat carefully.
...

Good write-up. Ironically, DRK's original plan was to get the code vetted by CoinJoin inventor gmaxwell and then go open source. They never thought to actually consult gmaxwell on his opinions of DRK. I think they might need someone else. Wink

Another problem worth mentioning, ~80% of the "masternodes" are concentrated in 3 VPS companies. It's a mockery of 'decentralized' and 'trustless'.

Lulz.

What % of holders/miners of any coin are not concentrated between 4 ISPs  - AT&T, AOL Time Warner, Cox and Verizon.. Another problem worth mentioning - who's backbone are those VPS companies using to host? Yup one of those 4 companies the holders/miners use to provide them with internet access.. Either way you look at it decentralization sounds good but at the end of the the day it's just a matter of perspective. The big 4 control both sides of the net.

Sure, I can agree with that. But these are two separate things and there's a critical gap in capability. A VPS company hosting an instance can take a snapshot of the VMs at will with ease. This reveals exact data not only on the disk, but even memory and registers. Your ISP sees incoming/outgoing data but they can't access your local hardware state (except through the usual route of malware). You can encrypt your data to counter your ISP, but with a VPS the decryption keys are on their hardware. Hell, they could very well write to your VM if they wanted.

This all sort of goes into conspiracy territory, though that may not be unwarranted in the era of large-scale privacy breaches by governments. In any case, the point is you don't have to deal with this weakness. That's what Monero is for. Tongue
PeaMine
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May 24, 2014, 07:31:58 AM
 #3673

mine.moneropool.org is giving around 80% rejects, especially after 13 accepts, anyone know of a good pool that is paying what it should?
Is there a way to set your own difficulty?

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daywalkerneo
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May 24, 2014, 07:54:36 AM
 #3674

the drk dev had a advertising company that was the only one google ever banned you are all being played like bitches buying drk thinking it will rival lite because of the name and its not even anon the dark wallet is needed to make it anon....i was in on drk until i found out the truth..your being suckered into buying crap from a snake oil salesman.

drk dev prev company was banned from google....let that sink in. and he worked for wells fargo....wow.

hey keep buying doge while your at it lmao  when doge halved last time the price dropped ....and i called the drop this week...its a joke coin...dont be the coins joke....

you keep buying these bs coins when you should buy  ahh f it  i wont even recommend one.
fools and their money are easily departed.

lmao banned by google.....fn giving your money to a thief playing the shit out of you. hardcore in a financed campaign.

go talk shit on drk via twitter and watch a group of trolls freak out and discredit you ...its their job bitches

trolls aint stealing when you give em your money.

@theadamgarrity via twitter

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sorryforthat
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May 24, 2014, 08:02:36 AM
 #3675

the drk dev had a advertising company that was the only one google ever banned you are all being played like bitches buying drk thinking it will rival lite because of the name and its not even anon the dark wallet is needed to make it anon....i was in on drk until i found out the truth..your being suckered into buying crap from a snake oil salesman.

drk dev prev company was banned from google....let that sink in. and he worked for wells fargo....wow.

hey keep buying doge while your at it lmao  when doge halved last time the price dropped ....and i called the drop this week...its a joke coin...dont be the coins joke....

you keep buying these bs coins when you should buy  ahh f it  i wont even recommend one.
fools and their money are easily departed.

lmao banned by google.....fn giving your money to a thief playing the shit out of you. hardcore in a financed campaign.

go talk shit on drk via twitter and watch a group of trolls freak out and discredit you ...its their job bitches

trolls aint stealing when you give em your money.

Did you post this in the wrong thread?
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May 24, 2014, 08:03:02 AM
 #3676

 For a dark-horse long-term bet though I think MRO is the true second generation cryptocurrency.

I'm completely agree with that

I miss the DRK at all ..lucky I own MRO when  it haven't  grow up
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May 24, 2014, 08:09:21 AM
 #3677

Anyone know what is causing the orphans?

http://moneropool.com/#pool_blocks

Would also like to know this, there are so many orphans really getting in the way of profit.
7 orphans in a row, ouch

This is a well known problem with the coin design. It really can't work properly at 1 min block time, experts have said (this is above my expertise). There was an attempt to change things earlier, to a 2 minute block time (actually as part of a thread about the emission curve).
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.20

A change to 2 mins block time would help, but there was no agreement, and it would be difficult to do the change over. Perhaps in a few years when most of the coins have been emitted, there will be agreement to do it.

The change to two minutes is easy and relatively non-controversial. Instead of roughly 17 coins per minute (a bit less now) the block rewards would be 34 coins every two minutes. That is no change to the number of coins per day or the shape of the emission curve.

The only reason it hasn't been done is that it needs to be done carefully to prevent any network disruption during the change over and there are other priorities.


polecrab
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May 24, 2014, 08:20:21 AM
 #3678

Anyone know what is causing the orphans?

http://moneropool.com/#pool_blocks

Would also like to know this, there are so many orphans really getting in the way of profit.
7 orphans in a row, ouch

This is a well known problem with the coin design. It really can't work properly at 1 min block time, experts have said (this is above my expertise). There was an attempt to change things earlier, to a 2 minute block time (actually as part of a thread about the emission curve).
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=585480.20

A change to 2 mins block time would help, but there was no agreement, and it would be difficult to do the change over. Perhaps in a few years when most of the coins have been emitted, there will be agreement to do it.

The change to two minutes is easy and relatively non-controversial. Instead of roughly 17 coins per minute (a bit less now) the block rewards would be 34 coins every two minutes. That is no change to the number of coins per day or the shape of the emission curve.

The only reason it hasn't been done is that it needs to be done carefully to prevent any network disruption during the change over and there are other priorities.


Well I am glad to hear that. These orphans are really annoying, so perhaps this change should be given more priority.
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May 24, 2014, 08:23:07 AM
 #3679

The developer of Monero is David Latapie, a french "multi forker" (he also developed mintcoin).

http://whois.domaintools.com/monero.cc
http://whois.domaintools.com/mintcoin.cc

Mintcoin.cc is now made anonymous by obscure WhoisGuard company from Panama...

Well... no future except pump and dump (I own a bunch of this coin but I'm realist).

Thanks for the answers everyone. More than my initial question - what I really am trying to understand is which type of anonymity DRK vs. MRO has more long term advantages?  Whats the case for one or the other? Or will they simply be competing?

I hold both MRO and DRK and so have thought about this question somewhat carefully. DRK has the advantage of better awareness (particularly with its recent price increase), the familiarity and backend support of using a BTC-based client and associated services, and a large community of holders/miners. The developer, Evan Duffield, is quite visible and had made meaningful development progress. Some of the economic characteristics of the coin, including its relatively low inflation and the masternode system (which ties up coin) tend to encourage price increases. The principal concern for many regarding it is its unequal early distribution ("instamine") which you'll have to decide for yourself how much it bothers you. Another potential criticism is that Darksend is currently closed-source and unvetted, so we have no way of knowing if it will deliver on its promises. In fairness, Evan has stated it will go open source when complete, however.

MRO has the advantage of a truly novel and elegant implementation of anonymity. If a coin's value is determined purely by the anonymity if offers then CryptoNote beats CoinJoin (which underpins Darksend) hands-down. Even the originator of CoinJoin, gmaxwell, has stated as such. The CryptoNote developers, while anonymous, appear to be quite familiar with the academic cryptography literature and have used ring signatures in a clever manner to underpin their coin. Ring signatures are academically vetted and enjoy broad support within the cryptographic community (e.g. Adam Back, the cryptographer who invented hashcash for Bitcoin, tweeted his support). While I think Evan is a great developer amongst the sea of altcoins, he strikes me as more of a coder and less of a cryptographer. He, for example, has reversed himself and decided against using ring signatures. While this decision was ascribed to avoiding bloat in the blockchain, I think it's more likely because he realized implementing ring signatures in a BTC-based coin, particularly one with an already-established blockchain, would be extremely difficult.

The main limiting factor of MRO right now is that because it is not based on BTC, all of the underpinnings users have come to expect (GUI, pools, exchanges, etc.) have to be developed from scratch. This hurts the uptake of the coin and scares off less advanced users. It is possible that DRK could develop a lead in user uptake while these things get sorted out. With that said, I think the progress over one month has been very fast given that deficit; there is also a strong team of experienced developers. Some also criticize MRO as a "clone" of Bytecoin (the original CryptoNote currency marred by its own, bigger, "premine" controversy). While Bytecoin did indeed form the base of MRO, the MRO devs have done a lot to popularize CryptoNote and make it accessible to end users. MRO also has by far the largest net hash and exchange volume of the CryptoNote coins. As we saw with Tenebrix/Litecoin, sometimes being second with a fair launch is what makes the difference in making a coin stick in the long term. Also, the reason DRK is able to avoid having any "clones" currently is because of its aforementioned closed source; this is not really a strength per se as it is unlikely that people will tolerate a closed source coin in the long run, particularly when it comes to anonymity.

Anyway, I think both of these coins have a bright future. While the recent run-up of DRK clearly has elements of irrational exuberance, I do think that, so long as it delivers on its promises, it deserves to be beside Litecoin as one of the most valuable BTC derivatives. For a dark-horse long-term bet though I think MRO is the true second generation cryptocurrency.


drawingthesun
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May 24, 2014, 08:27:49 AM
 #3680

The developer of Monero is David Latapie, a french "multi forker" (he also developed mintcoin).

Well... no future except pump and dump (I own a bunch of this coin but I'm realist).

He is one developer, there are a few at the moment.

No future hey? We get started with a fair launch, lots of interest and the other coins you mention start with insta-mine or pre-mine and yet it's Monero that is the pump and dump?

Dude, you're spreading FUD, that is all.
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