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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4667027 times)
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May 22, 2014, 05:36:36 PM
 #3361

http://mon.hashharder.com -  0% Fee - Need miners!

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Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
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May 22, 2014, 05:37:16 PM
 #3362

I hope Darksend Masternode investors did their homework on Ring Signature technology. When coins already exist (Monero) that are more anonymous than Darkcoin/Darksend without requiring centralized nodes only accessible to those rich enough to afford the arbitrary amount, it stands to topple your whole system.

Monero is like a decentralized Darkcoin if you think about it.





This  Smiley
Price will go easy over 0.01

Funny, because Monero's Ring Signatues have horrible scaling/bloating issues.

Darkcoin's Masternodes are already as anonymous as the Ring Sigs, and don't forget Evan is going to implement Ring Sigs and I2P. Monero is left behind in the dust.

Get the fuck out with that instamined shitcoin.



+1.

DRK coin panic buyers are scared they are soon to be bag holders.

Whatever way you look at it Monero is grossly undervalued at present.
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May 22, 2014, 05:38:55 PM
 #3363

monero is love. monero is life.

• ⓢⓤⓒⓗⓝⓔⓚⓚⓨ •
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May 22, 2014, 05:43:18 PM
 #3364

I hope Darksend Masternode investors did their homework on Ring Signature technology. When coins already exist (Monero) that are more anonymous than Darkcoin/Darksend without requiring centralized nodes only accessible to those rich enough to afford the arbitrary amount, it stands to topple your whole system.

Monero is like a decentralized Darkcoin if you think about it.





This  Smiley
Price will go easy over 0.01

Funny, because Monero's Ring Signatues have horrible scaling/bloating issues.

Darkcoin's Masternodes are already as anonymous as the Ring Sigs, and don't forget Evan is going to implement Ring Sigs and I2P. Monero is left behind in the dust.

Evan already basically admited he can't implement ring signatures.

Monero has Ring Signatures, and now go away in your thread Darkcoin Troll.
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May 22, 2014, 05:43:43 PM
 #3365

I hope Darksend Masternode investors did their homework on Ring Signature technology. When coins already exist (Monero) that are more anonymous than Darkcoin/Darksend without requiring centralized nodes only accessible to those rich enough to afford the arbitrary amount, it stands to topple your whole system.

Monero is like a decentralized Darkcoin if you think about it.





This  Smiley
Price will go easy over 0.01

Funny, because Monero's Ring Signatues have horrible scaling/bloating issues.

Darkcoin's Masternodes are already as anonymous as the Ring Sigs, and don't forget Evan is going to implement Ring Sigs and I2P. Monero is left behind in the dust.

Evan already basically admited he can't implement ring signatures

RC3 Progress Report

I've had some substantial progress on DarkSend and have figured out how to make our existing system as secure as ring signatures. Vastly improved security, no bloat (from the ring signatures) and without actually having to trust new cryptography (it hasn't been extensively tested like what DarkSend uses) . So I think it'll give us a HUGE advantage in the coming months. More to come soon, I'm going to start implementing this tomorrow.  Grin



Nice lie. Evan says he plans to implement Ring Signatures after Darkcoin is open sourced, which will be a few months from now, rougly august.

He's also going to implement I2P as well. Monero is left in the dust.

I told Evan to reconsider the use of ring signature due to their scaling / bloat issue a bit prior to his post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg6862900#msg6862900

If he can do it without ring signatures+bloat, we're great.

What we are actually discussing right now is this:

99.99% of transactions are already private/anonymous to all but a bad actor that has access to all the network. Otherwise if someone sees a DarkSend they don't know who sent what to who. (provided they'll also have IP obfuscation / TOR etc)

So, we are not talking about achieving privacy or anonymity right now. We're trying to be NSA-proof, or close to that so that the theoretical event of someone knowing what goes on is eradicated. As far as I understand, Evan has an idea on how to improve the way masternodes conduct their transactions so that even the nodes don't know what they are transacting. When that happens, even controlling all the nodes will be futile as an attack vector and almost total anonymity can be achieved - at least as far as coin mixing goes (Bytecoin is also coin-mixing, Zerocoin is in another league but has other drawbacks).

Bytecoin will also have to fix it's own issues to become NSA-proof. As it is right now, it is not. And the extremely low transaction volume in its network doesn't allow for much mixing (same applies for clones). Mixing without volume = problem. Darkcoin has a tremendous advantage in that department.
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May 22, 2014, 06:05:12 PM
 #3366

I told Evan to reconsider the use of ring signature due to their scaling / bloat issue a bit prior to his post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg6862900#msg6862900

If he can do it without ring signatures+bloat, we're great.

What we are actually discussing right now is this:

99.99% of transactions are already private/anonymous to all but a bad actor that has access to all the network. Otherwise if someone sees a DarkSend they don't know who sent what to who. (provided they'll also have IP obfuscation / TOR etc)

So, we are not talking about achieving privacy or anonymity right now. We're trying to be NSA-proof, or close to that so that the theoretical event of someone knowing what goes on is eradicated. As far as I understand, Evan has an idea on how to improve the way masternodes conduct their transactions so that even the nodes don't know what they are transacting. When that happens, even controlling all the nodes will be futile as an attack vector and almost total anonymity can be achieved - at least as far as coin mixing goes (Bytecoin is also coin-mixing, Zerocoin is in another league but has other drawbacks).

Bytecoin will also have to fix it's own issues to become NSA-proof. As it is right now, it is not. And the extremely low transaction volume in its network doesn't allow for much mixing (same applies for clones). Mixing without volume = problem. Darkcoin has a tremendous advantage in that department.

Masternodes are such a blatantly broken idea I cannot imagine someone encourages it in good faith. How do masternodes/miners/whoever verify if a coin is not double spent and originates from a wallet with sufficient balance if they don't know what they are transacting? There are three options:

1. Zero-knowledge proofs, but that is Zerocoin at the moment and the drawbacks are catastrophic.
2. Ring signatures and similar mixing constructs that hide the sender in a subset of the network.
3. Some other information leak that is not documented.

Do you understand why there is no other way?

If the New and Improved DRK implements 2, then it has at most the same strength as MRO and possibly less, with the added bonus(?) of more, unnecessary centralization. If it implements 3, then it is a failed anonymity solution. The short answer is that ring signatures are cryptographically near-perfect mixing and no Bitcoin fork can ever natively support them.

As for your last paragraph, it is factually wrong. MRO does not need high volume because it doesn't mix transactions but outputs (even spent ones from the past). This is a tremendous advantage that MRO has and DRK doesn't, contrary to your assertion. And even gmaxwell, author of CoinJoin, sees no point in DRK.
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May 22, 2014, 06:09:46 PM
 #3367

I told Evan to reconsider the use of ring signature due to their scaling / bloat issue a bit prior to his post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg6862900#msg6862900

If he can do it without ring signatures+bloat, we're great.

What we are actually discussing right now is this:

99.99% of transactions are already private/anonymous to all but a bad actor that has access to all the network. Otherwise if someone sees a DarkSend they don't know who sent what to who. (provided they'll also have IP obfuscation / TOR etc)

So, we are not talking about achieving privacy or anonymity right now. We're trying to be NSA-proof, or close to that so that the theoretical event of someone knowing what goes on is eradicated. As far as I understand, Evan has an idea on how to improve the way masternodes conduct their transactions so that even the nodes don't know what they are transacting. When that happens, even controlling all the nodes will be futile as an attack vector and almost total anonymity can be achieved - at least as far as coin mixing goes (Bytecoin is also coin-mixing, Zerocoin is in another league but has other drawbacks).

Masternodes are such a blatantly broken idea I cannot imagine someone encourages it in good faith. How do masternodes/miners/whoever verify if a coin is not double spent and originates from a wallet with sufficient balance if they don't know what they are transacting? There are three options:

1. Zero-knowledge proofs, but that is Zerocoin at the moment and the drawbacks are catastrophic.
2. Ring signatures and similar constructs that hide the sender in a subset of the network.
3. Some other information leak that is not documented.

Do you understand why there is no other way?

If the New and Improved DRK implements 2, then it has at most the same strength as MRO and possibly less, with the added bonus(?) of more, unnecessary centralization. If it implements 3, then it is a failed anonymity solution.

+1.

Darksend also needs to be open sourced asap so it can be thoroughly vetted.
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May 22, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
 #3368

I told Evan to reconsider the use of ring signature due to their scaling / bloat issue a bit prior to his post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg6862900#msg6862900

If he can do it without ring signatures+bloat, we're great.

What we are actually discussing right now is this:

99.99% of transactions are already private/anonymous to all but a bad actor that has access to all the network. Otherwise if someone sees a DarkSend they don't know who sent what to who. (provided they'll also have IP obfuscation / TOR etc)

So, we are not talking about achieving privacy or anonymity right now. We're trying to be NSA-proof, or close to that so that the theoretical event of someone knowing what goes on is eradicated. As far as I understand, Evan has an idea on how to improve the way masternodes conduct their transactions so that even the nodes don't know what they are transacting. When that happens, even controlling all the nodes will be futile as an attack vector and almost total anonymity can be achieved - at least as far as coin mixing goes (Bytecoin is also coin-mixing, Zerocoin is in another league but has other drawbacks).

Masternodes are such a blatantly broken idea I cannot imagine someone encourages it in good faith. How do masternodes/miners/whoever verify if a coin is not double spent and originates from a wallet with sufficient balance if they don't know what they are transacting? There are three options:

1. Zero-knowledge proofs, but that is Zerocoin at the moment and the drawbacks are catastrophic.
2. Ring signatures and similar constructs that hide the sender in a subset of the network.
3. Some other information leak that is not documented.

Do you understand why there is no other way?

If the New and Improved DRK implements 2, then it has at most the same strength as MRO and possibly less, with the added bonus(?) of more, unnecessary centralization. If it implements 3, then it is a failed anonymity solution.

Your post shows how misinformed/ignorant you are.

Masternodes are an ingenius idea.

They serve to anonymous transactions
They serve as an incentive to uphold the network

Monero only has Ring Signatures going for it, which has terrible issues such as bloating and scaling, not to mention that anyone and his grandma can made a Bytecoin fork, like the devs of Monero did.
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May 22, 2014, 06:12:35 PM
 #3369

Can anyone confirm is MRO automatic withdrawal on Poloniex working or not ? I want to buy some more but really hate to request manual withdrawal.
Sometimes it's working and sometimes it's not working. Yesterday I waited 9 hours for my withdraw to be processed.

Just sent 20 min ago, . NO incoming deposits.....  
Today on my second machines , i sent MRO , and after 1 minute a see incoming transaction on poloniex.
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May 22, 2014, 06:15:55 PM
 #3370

I told Evan to reconsider the use of ring signature due to their scaling / bloat issue a bit prior to his post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg6862900#msg6862900

If he can do it without ring signatures+bloat, we're great.

What we are actually discussing right now is this:

99.99% of transactions are already private/anonymous to all but a bad actor that has access to all the network. Otherwise if someone sees a DarkSend they don't know who sent what to who. (provided they'll also have IP obfuscation / TOR etc)

So, we are not talking about achieving privacy or anonymity right now. We're trying to be NSA-proof, or close to that so that the theoretical event of someone knowing what goes on is eradicated. As far as I understand, Evan has an idea on how to improve the way masternodes conduct their transactions so that even the nodes don't know what they are transacting. When that happens, even controlling all the nodes will be futile as an attack vector and almost total anonymity can be achieved - at least as far as coin mixing goes (Bytecoin is also coin-mixing, Zerocoin is in another league but has other drawbacks).

Masternodes are such a blatantly broken idea I cannot imagine someone encourages it in good faith. How do masternodes/miners/whoever verify if a coin is not double spent and originates from a wallet with sufficient balance if they don't know what they are transacting? There are three options:

1. Zero-knowledge proofs, but that is Zerocoin at the moment and the drawbacks are catastrophic.
2. Ring signatures and similar constructs that hide the sender in a subset of the network.
3. Some other information leak that is not documented.

Do you understand why there is no other way?

If the New and Improved DRK implements 2, then it has at most the same strength as MRO and possibly less, with the added bonus(?) of more, unnecessary centralization. If it implements 3, then it is a failed anonymity solution.

Your post shows how misinformed/ignorant you are.

Masternodes are an ingenius idea.

They serve to anonymous transactions
They serve as an incentive to uphold the network

Monero only has Ring Signatures going for it, which has terrible issues such as bloating and scaling, not to mention that anyone and his grandma can made a Bytecoin fork, like the devs of Monero did.

This issue with bloating is possibly resolvable according to the boolberry dev through blockchain truncation.  There are ways around this issue and I'm sure they'll be discovered and implemented in due time.
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May 22, 2014, 06:16:11 PM
 #3371

About Darksend, masternodes act as centralized mixing service. What will happen if some masternodes is operated or compromised by NSA or other federal agencies ? All transaction processed by those masternodes would be leaked and there will be no more privacy.

The idea of masternodes are destroying the whole purpose of cryptocurrency: decentralization.

The most notable characteristic of crypto currency is trustless, you don't have to trust anyone with your money. By using masternodes, darkcoin users have to trust them not to be NSA-operated or not to take log and give it to the government. That idea is against the purpose of cryptocurrency.
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May 22, 2014, 06:16:27 PM
 #3372


Your post shows how misinformed/ignorant you are.

Masternodes are an ingenius idea.

They serve to anonymous transactions
They serve as an incentive to uphold the network

Monero only has Ring Signatures going for it, which has terrible issues such as bloating and scaling, not to mention that anyone and his grandma can made a Bytecoin fork, like the devs of Monero did.

17 posts made by you in this topic in the last 24 hours, all bashing Monero and trying to spread fud  Cheesy

Have much of an agenda?
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May 22, 2014, 06:18:28 PM
 #3373

Can anyone confirm is MRO automatic withdrawal on Poloniex working or not ? I want to buy some more but really hate to request manual withdrawal.
Sometimes it's working and sometimes it's not working. Yesterday I waited 9 hours for my withdraw to be processed.

Just sent 20 min ago, . NO incoming deposits.....  
Today on my second machines , i sent MRO , and after 1 minute a see incoming transaction on poloniex.
Yesterday monero had many problems on poloniex,I saw it was frozen several times. your coins are probably safe, just wait, and save your transaction details.
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May 22, 2014, 06:18:38 PM
 #3374

Monero only has Ring Signatures going for it, which has terrible issues such as bloating and scaling

That is all Monero needs, a little bloat and scaling issues for now are a side effect of having a proper anonymous network.

Darkcoin can have both bad actors and the masternodes can be DDOS'd at any time forcing traffic to a bad actor.

Monero is the peoples anonymous coin.
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May 22, 2014, 06:18:56 PM
 #3375

Quote
Darkcoin started  life as xcoin on January 18th with 80mil max coins then was  re-branded Xcoin XCO, then later to Darkcoin and max supply reduced to 22mil.
The dev is very sorry that he sits on 2 million instamined coins (~10%) because the block rewards were "erroneously" set to 500 instead of 50. Currently 4.3mil are mined.
No Windows or Mac wallet on launch and no pools.
Early google searches of "Darkcoin", lead you to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT coin with a total coin count of something like 100,000,000,000,000,000 units and an abandoned thread as the top search results, mostly since that coin came before the existing one.

It fraudulently claims to be the first anonymous coin, it is not,  its Bytecoin for 2 years now.

Is this true?
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May 22, 2014, 06:20:12 PM
 #3376

17 posts made by you in this topic in the last 24 hours, all bashing Monero and trying to spread fud  Cheesy
Have much of an agenda?

lol. good catch. He must be a major investor protecting his assets. With that said, the past 25 pages of this thread has been a DRK/MRO pissing contest. I thought we agreed to stop discussing this.
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May 22, 2014, 06:22:57 PM
 #3377

Quote
Darkcoin started  life as xcoin on January 18th with 80mil max coins then was  re-branded Xcoin XCO, then later to Darkcoin and max supply reduced to 22mil.
The dev is very sorry that he sits on 2 million instamined coins (~10%) because the block rewards were "erroneously" set to 500 instead of 50. Currently 4.3mil are mined.
No Windows or Mac wallet on launch and no pools.
Early google searches of "Darkcoin", lead you to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT coin with a total coin count of something like 100,000,000,000,000,000 units and an abandoned thread as the top search results, mostly since that coin came before the existing one.

It fraudulently claims to be the first anonymous coin, it is not,  its Bytecoin for 2 years now.

Is this true?


yes, it's true. Darkcoin block reward was reduced to 1/10 of previous value after 2 million coins was instamined by .... someone  Grin
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May 22, 2014, 06:27:17 PM
 #3378

17 posts made by you in this topic in the last 24 hours, all bashing Monero and trying to spread fud  Cheesy
Have much of an agenda?

lol. good catch. He must be a major investor protecting his assets. With that said, the past 25 pages of this thread has been a DRK/MRO pissing contest. I thought we agreed to stop discussing this.

Please do stop. People come here looking for information about MRO. Also, if you think you are going to win an argument or even score meaningful points against the haters, trolls, and FUDsters, you are mistaken. Just let it go. If you want to have a pissing contest, bash DRK (even if deserved), or do anything else not directly related to MRO, please do it somewhere else.

(Not addressed to you personally SFT.)

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May 22, 2014, 06:38:26 PM
 #3379

Masternodes are such a blatantly broken idea I cannot imagine someone encourages it in good faith. How do masternodes/miners/whoever verify if a coin is not double spent and originates from a wallet with sufficient balance if they don't know what they are transacting? There are three options:

1. Zero-knowledge proofs, but that is Zerocoin at the moment and the drawbacks are catastrophic.
2. Ring signatures and similar mixing constructs that hide the sender in a subset of the network.
3. Some other information leak that is not documented.

Do you understand why there is no other way?

We'll find out what Evan has in store. I'm not coding the thing. I read something about the users doing the mixing

Quote
If the New and Improved DRK implements 2, then it has at most the same strength as MRO and possibly less, with the added bonus(?) of more, unnecessary centralization. If it implements 3, then it is a failed anonymity solution. The short answer is that ring signatures are cryptographically near-perfect mixing and no Bitcoin fork can ever natively support them.

Native support is not a requirement.
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May 22, 2014, 06:39:09 PM
 #3380

Monero only has Ring Signatures going for it, which has terrible issues such as bloating and scaling

That is all Monero needs, a little bloat and scaling issues for now are a side effect of having a proper anonymous network.


lol. Anyone talking about bloat should go see how many weeks it would take to synch the BTC blockchain from scratch. ffs.

This post sums up why all this bullshit is a scam
Read It. Hate It. Change the facts that it represents.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1606638.msg16139644#msg16139644
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