[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[GingerAle]

fo·rum
ˈfôrəm
noun
1.
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

[1714903855]

1714903855

[Grim]

which cpu miner is recommended these days? still yam m7v?

tia

[GingerAle]

which cpu miner is recommended these days? still yam m7v?

tia

... depends on the CPU mostly. I have a bunch of old LGA 771 xeons, so the only CPU miner I can use is YAM.

I think wolf's and the others work well too. Just try them out and see what gives the best hash.

[dewdeded]

Let's ignore DarkCoin. They are not interested in information exchange, cryptocurrency scene related discussions or debates. Most of the regular, loud, rude posters have no technically understanding and choosen to strictly deny any word that doesnt fit their collective religious opinion about DarkCoin.

A big part of them is driven by greed (e.g. MN owners, they dream about becoming bitcoin-rich with darkcoin).

These DarkCoin people are not really interested in Crypto Currency or privacy. They just want to get rich, by following their messias Evan. So they are ok with everything he did and is going to do. No matter how questionable it was/is. Like in a sect with a guru.

They don't know or care about any ideals and principals, that cryptocurrency origins of and all early scene members and founders stood for.
They have no interest in technology or building an sustainable eco-system. They just want to get rich and leave.

They are no true cryptocurrency supporters or even regular scene members. Just randoms kids, the Bitcoin boom attracted them. (E.g. Like the poker boom once attracted millions of the new players to online poker.) They dont wan't to and intellectualy can't contribute to the scene or even their own coin.

They live their dreams of a golden future, given to them by the holy Evan. They even would be ok with Evan working for the NSA, because they dont share our believes.

It's a waste of time talking with them, nothing can result from it.
They are out of touch with reality, like hardcore taliban or tea party members in the USA.
1.) they are explicitly don't listen and are proud of it 2.) their project isnt an community project with community participation in decision making, they see no value in community discussion about technology, development roadmap or strategy, because they have no influence in them
(they know very well that their opinion won't matter and Evan alone is deciding everything in the project)

There are enough coin-neutral altcoin people, general cryptocurrency experts and some of us may even know some Darkcoin people in private, that are ok. We can discuss with them about DarkCoin.

 

[nzminer]

Let's ignore DarkCoin. They are not interested in information exchange, cryptocurrency scene related discussions or debates. Most of the regular, loud, rude posters have no technically understanding and choosen to strictly deny any word that doesnt fit their collective religious opinion about DarkCoin.

A big part of them is driven by greed (e.g. MN owners, they dream about becoming bitcoin-rich with darkcoin).

These DarkCoin people are not really interested in Crypto Currency or privacy. They just want to get rich, by following their messias Evan. So they are ok with everything he did and is going to do. No matter how questionable it was/is. Like in a sect with a guru.

They don't know or care about any ideals and principals, that cryptocurrency origins of and all early scene members and founders stood for.
They have no interest in technology or building an sustainable eco-system. They just want to get rich and leave.

They are no true cryptocurrency supporters or even regular scene members. Just randoms kids, the Bitcoin boom attracted them. (E.g. Like the poker boom once attracted millions of the new players to online poker.) They dont wan't to and intellectualy can't contribute to the scene or even their own coin.

They live their dreams of a golden future, given to them by the holy Evan. They even would be ok with Evan working for the NSA, because they dont share our believes.

It's a waste of time talking with them, nothing can result from it.
They are out of touch with reality, like hardcore taliban or tea party members in the USA.
1.) they are explicitly don't listen and are proud of it 2.) their project isnt an community project with community participation in decision making, they see no value in community discussion about technology, development roadmap or strategy, because they have no influence in them
(they know very well that their opinion won't matter and Evan alone is deciding everything in the project)

There are enough coin-neutral altcoin people, general cryptocurrency experts and some of us may even know some Darkcoin people in private, that are ok. We can discuss with them about DarkCoin.

 

I completley agree with you!
All the DRK community want to do is get rich quick!
Im so over reading all the posts that claim $100/DRK or $1000/DRK etc, its a joke!
The idea behind masternodes is a very clever idea to reduce supply and inflate value also.

The technology behind Monero is superior to DRK in every way and actually works.

As you and many others here well know, that the DRK community had numerous trolls who were trying their hardest to damage the reputation of Monero and XC, they partially succeeded with XC which is sad, as i really wished their team well, i dont know whats happenig with XC currently, but that dev had everything working well at the time that DRK was having all the masternode forking issues.

Monero (and anycryptonote based coin for that matter) is still more anon than DRK will ever be.

[wpalczynski]

Let's ignore DarkCoin. They are not interested in information exchange, cryptocurrency scene related discussions or debates. Most of the regular, loud, rude posters have no technically understanding and choosen to strictly deny any word that doesnt fit their collective religious opinion about DarkCoin.

A big part of them is driven by greed (e.g. MN owners, they dream about becoming bitcoin-rich with darkcoin).

These DarkCoin people are not really interested in Crypto Currency or privacy. They just want to get rich, by following their messias Evan. So they are ok with everything he did and is going to do. No matter how questionable it was/is. Like in a sect with a guru.

They don't know or care about any ideals and principals, that cryptocurrency origins of and all early scene members and founders stood for.
They have no interest in technology or building an sustainable eco-system. They just want to get rich and leave.

They are no true cryptocurrency supporters or even regular scene members. Just randoms kids, the Bitcoin boom attracted them. (E.g. Like the poker boom once attracted millions of the new players to online poker.) They dont wan't to and intellectualy can't contribute to the scene or even their own coin.

They live their dreams of a golden future, given to them by the holy Evan. They even would be ok with Evan working for the NSA, because they dont share our believes.

It's a waste of time talking with them, nothing can result from it.
They are out of touch with reality, like hardcore taliban or tea party members in the USA.
1.) they are explicitly don't listen and are proud of it 2.) their project isnt an community project with community participation in decision making, they see no value in community discussion about technology, development roadmap or strategy, because they have no influence in them
(they know very well that their opinion won't matter and Evan alone is deciding everything in the project)

There are enough coin-neutral altcoin people, general cryptocurrency experts and some of us may even know some Darkcoin people in private, that are ok. We can discuss with them about DarkCoin.

 

I agree with you.  By arguing with them all we really do is bump their thread to the top and increase it's number of pages both of which directly benefit the scam many here are trying to stop.  Newbies come and could potentially see the number of posts as an endorsement.

Debating with them using logic is akin to arguing with your bedroom wall.

There are a few members there who answered my questions diligently because I was genuinely interested in certain aspects of their architecture but those are far and few in between.

[Grim]

which cpu miner is recommended these days? still yam m7v?

tia

... depends on the CPU mostly. I have a bunch of old LGA 771 xeons, so the only CPU miner I can use is YAM.

I think wolf's and the others work well too. Just try them out and see what gives the best hash.

i7 4770

somebody for sure knows what cpu miner is best

[fluffypony]

I'm posting this here instead of on the Monero forum, as I believe it to be more relevant to those on Bitcointalk.

There seems to be some consternation coming from the Darkcoin camp as a reaction to smooth and myself having been quite outspoken on the subject recently. My analysis on Reddit, given in response to a request for technical commentary, seems to have particularly incensed them. Darkcoiners have responded by calling me "absolutely disgraceful", "low class...trailer park behavior...fudster", "extremely unprofessional...classless", "a classic slacker", and my personal favourite, "a faggot monero troll/ shill".

So why do we do it? Why bother saying anything? Why not just keep our head down?

Well, this situation reminds me of gmaxwell pointing out the major consensus flaws in Ripple/Stellar (like a year-and-a-half before the Stellar consensus state split in December, 2014), and I'd like to quote him directly from that thread, as it really echoes what I am feeling and thinking right now:

On Tuesday at a Bitcoin event I was still being harangued by Ripple/Stellar advocates claiming the absolute soundness of the system.  I care about the whole cryptocurrency ecosystem since, in the minds of the public any failure is harmful to all of us, and I don't want to see anyone suffer losses not even the gullible... But it makes no sense for me to spend my limited time providing free consulting for the impossibly torrent of ill-advised, impossibility claiming, systems... especially when they're not thankful and/or respond with obfuscation that makes their work unrealizable or hand-waving without admitting their new assumptions. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but ... hey, I spoke up a bit and people continued on anyways without asking the kind of tough questions they should have been asking. I'm certainly not going to spend all me time correcting everyone who is wrong on the internet, especially when altcoin folks have been known to play pretty dirty toward their critics. No one should assume that other people are going to go out of their way to beg them to not use something broken.

Perhaps in the future more people will ask the hard questions and demand better answers?  If so, it would be worth more time for experienced people to spend time reviewing other systems and we could all benefit. Otherwise, perhaps those who aren't interested in standing up to some of the rigor we'd normally expect from a cryptosystem will stop calling their broken altcoins "cryptocurrencies".  Those of us who actually want to build sound systems don't want our work sullied by these predictable failures, and being able to say "I told you so" is no consolation.

I cannot describe it better than gmaxwell has. I really hope that Darkcoin abandons its broken architecture and ideas sooner rather than later, not for their sake, but for ours...because their failure is harmful to all of us.

[iCEBREAKER]

I really hope that Darkcoin abandons its broken architecture and ideas sooner rather than later, not for their sake, but for ours...because their failure is harmful to all of us.

Great post on Reddit.  The True Believers will attack your for 'attacking' their Cargo Cult of Personality, but if it saves some poor slobs from being suckered in it's worth the trouble.

I disagree DashcoinDark's (inevitable) doom is harmful to the rest of us.  Bitcoin and Monero are anti-fragile.  The epic LOOOLs provided by the flailing and failings of DARSH only make us stronger and more entertained.

[xa4]

I don't post a lot here, but it just occurred to me, if Dash is flawed, why hasn't it been attacked and it's flaws been exposed ? Or has it ?

[vokain]

What determines the per-KB transaction fee?

The size of the transaction once it is encoded? I maybe didn't understand the question?

No, the size of the transaction is variable mostly upon the mixin count as far as I understand it, but what determines the fee implemented to check blockchain "spam"?

Oh there is a hard coded minimum of 0.01 currently, which is the recommended fee for <= 1 KB. Nothing lower than that will be forwarded. Eventually we would like to move to something more like Bitcoin 0.10's dynamic fees.

Miners can fill blocks with their own spam however they want but their reward will be reduced if the block size exceeds the median of the last N (I think 720) blocks. It would be pretty stupid to do this though since it will slow propagation and result in more orphaned blocks, even more so than with Bitcoin.

Thank you. I had a look at 0.10's release notes and find them favorable. So FWIR, given that we have no blocksize limit, and presumably as XMR prices go up and disk space costs go down, we can then assume that the cost to spam the network dollar-wise goes up too, and statistics would be taken to reflect this and tend towards lower and lower transaction fees?

Edit: I don't quite understand how or why miners would fill their own blocks. They would be paying their own, now not guaranteed to be found, award. Smooth, could you please explain more what you meant by your second paragraph?

Edit2: oh is that rule in place sort of as to reward optimal and regular block sizing accepted by miners?

Edit3: and the check against too slow verifications given when tx volume increases is that the block size miners want to verify begins to only steadily increase?

bump

[smooth]

What determines the per-KB transaction fee?

The size of the transaction once it is encoded? I maybe didn't understand the question?

No, the size of the transaction is variable mostly upon the mixin count as far as I understand it, but what determines the fee implemented to check blockchain "spam"?

Oh there is a hard coded minimum of 0.01 currently, which is the recommended fee for <= 1 KB. Nothing lower than that will be forwarded. Eventually we would like to move to something more like Bitcoin 0.10's dynamic fees.

Miners can fill blocks with their own spam however they want but their reward will be reduced if the block size exceeds the median of the last N (I think 720) blocks. It would be pretty stupid to do this though since it will slow propagation and result in more orphaned blocks, even more so than with Bitcoin.

Thank you. I had a look at 0.10's release notes and find them favorable. So FWIR, given that we have no blocksize limit, and presumably as XMR prices go up and disk space costs go down, we can then assume that the cost to spam the network dollar-wise goes up too, and statistics would be taken to reflect this and tend towards lower and lower transaction fees?

Thanks for the bump I didn't see the edits.

The minimum anti spam fee threshold will certainly be lowered and some point (and can probably be made automatic), and isn't intended to set the actual fee that is paid. I think Bitcoin sets the anti-spam fee 0.00001 and the typical fees are higher. The actual fees paid are set by a market between miners and users.

Edit: I don't quite understand how or why miners would fill their own blocks. They would be paying their own, now not guaranteed to be found, award. Smooth, could you please explain more what you meant by your second paragraph?

The potential (theoretically at least) is for malicious miners to spam the network since they are aren't deterred by a fee they pay to themselves, and aren't limited by a maximum block size as in Bitcoin.

Edit2: oh is that rule in place sort of as to reward optimal and regular block sizing accepted by miners?

At least reasonable sizing. I don't know that optimal sizing is so easy to even define.

Edit3: and the check against too slow verifications given when tx volume increases is that the block size miners want to verify begins to only steadily increase?

Sure. If you are a miner you aren't going to want to make a block so big that it propagates slowly and has a high risk of being orphaned.

[GingerAle]

I don't post a lot here, but it just occurred to me, if Dash is flawed, why hasn't it been attacked and it's flaws been exposed ? Or has it ?

This guy claims to have broken it, but word is still out

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978447.0

thread dedicated to darkcoin tech vs. monero tech

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=962235.0

the short answer = resources. What darkcoin does can be broken with enough resources (massive analysis efforts and masternode control etc).

IMO, it hasn't been attacked because there is no incentive yet. No one has actually done anything with it yet that would warrant an investigation from law enforcement agencies.

[smooth]

I don't post a lot here, but it just occurred to me, if Dash is flawed, why hasn't it been attacked and it's flaws been exposed ? Or has it ?

This bridge was just fine for five months. Then it wasn't.

Dinosaurs roamed the earth for 135 million years. (By contrast humans have been here for a million or so.) Then they didn't.

etc.

See why your argument doesn't quite work?

[whocares]

Let's ignore DarkCoin. They are not interested in information exchange, cryptocurrency scene related discussions or debates. Most of the regular, loud, rude posters have no technically understanding and choosen to strictly deny any word that doesnt fit their collective religious opinion about DarkCoin.

A big part of them is driven by greed (e.g. MN owners, they dream about becoming bitcoin-rich with darkcoin).

These DarkCoin people are not really interested in Crypto Currency or privacy. They just want to get rich, by following their messias Evan. So they are ok with everything he did and is going to do. No matter how questionable it was/is. Like in a sect with a guru.

They don't know or care about any ideals and principals, that cryptocurrency origins of and all early scene members and founders stood for.
They have no interest in technology or building an sustainable eco-system. They just want to get rich and leave.

They are no true cryptocurrency supporters or even regular scene members. Just randoms kids, the Bitcoin boom attracted them. (E.g. Like the poker boom once attracted millions of the new players to online poker.) They dont wan't to and intellectualy can't contribute to the scene or even their own coin.

They live their dreams of a golden future, given to them by the holy Evan. They even would be ok with Evan working for the NSA, because they dont share our believes.

It's a waste of time talking with them, nothing can result from it.
They are out of touch with reality, like hardcore taliban or tea party members in the USA.
1.) they are explicitly don't listen and are proud of it 2.) their project isnt an community project with community participation in decision making, they see no value in community discussion about technology, development roadmap or strategy, because they have no influence in them
(they know very well that their opinion won't matter and Evan alone is deciding everything in the project)

There are enough coin-neutral altcoin people, general cryptocurrency experts and some of us may even know some Darkcoin people in private, that are ok. We can discuss with them about DarkCoin.

 

I'm curious why your community get interested in the technology behind DRK right now ?
Why not before two or three or more months ?
If you want a proper discussion, BCT is not the place and never was and you could do this by simply come in darkcointalk and start a discussion in a more professional manner, without false claims, lies and biased opinions based mostly on the fear that your project could not ever succeed.
Most of our technical educated members are not visit BTC because it's waste of time to walk in a ''radioactive environment'', full of idiots and get rich quick believers.

If you ask me I hardly see any difference between most of the CN coins..
What does make Monero superior to DarkNote for example ?
Improved anonymity ? Faster transactions ? Less bloat ?

[smooth]

I'm curious why your community get interested in the technology behind DRK right now ?
Why not before two or three or more months ?

Just because. Let's consider this argument a bit, shall we. If someone wasn't already interested in DRK before, according to you they can't become interested, or need to justify that? How do you ever attract new users? Or is it okay to attract new users but not new critics?

If you want a proper discussion, BCT is not the place and never was and you could do this by simply come in darkcointalk and start a discussion in a more professional manner, without false claims, lies and biased opinions based mostly on the fear that your project could not ever succeed.

Perhaps instead we should discuss Darkcoin on our own hosted forum and delete the "false claims, lies and biased opinions" any Darkcoin supporters might post in response?

Do you see why a neutral forum where the forum host doesn't get to define what constitutes "false claims, lies and biased opinions" according to their narrative might be preferred?

If you ask me I hardly see any difference between most of the CN coins..

I don't think anyone asked you but why are you comparing to other CN coins. Which of those is relevant today?

What does make Monero superior to DarkNote for example ?
Improved anonymity ? Faster transactions ? Less bloat ?

Trustless privacy. No enormous instamine faciliated with deceptive statements by the developer. No repeated tinkering with the monetary parameters. Not being mutated into a proof-of-stake system. Not being pitched as a high yield investment scheme. Probably some other things I didn't think of in 30 seconds.

[xa4]

I don't post a lot here, but it just occurred to me, if Dash is flawed, why hasn't it been attacked and it's flaws been exposed ? Or has it ?

This bridge was just fine for five months. Then it wasn't.

Dinosaurs roamed the earth for 135 million years. (By contrast humans have been here for a million or so.) Then they didn't.

etc.

See why your argument doesn't quite work?

Not really. I was under the impression some like to hack and attack coins for sport or to prove a point or to learn. GingerAle's answer seems to be the correct answer to me : the flaws are only exposable with enough resources.
  

[5w00p]

which cpu miner is recommended these days? still yam m7v?

tia

----
i7 4770

somebody for sure knows what cpu miner is best

You answered your own question. YAM M7V is the miner I run, with the exact same CPU as yours.
(YAM version 8 is less stable and slower on my particular machine and OS, so I stick with m7v)

[smooth]

I don't post a lot here, but it just occurred to me, if Dash is flawed, why hasn't it been attacked and it's flaws been exposed ? Or has it ?

This bridge was just fine for five months. Then it wasn't.

Dinosaurs roamed the earth for 135 million years. (By contrast humans have been here for a million or so.) Then they didn't.

etc.

See why your argument doesn't quite work?

Not really. I was under the impression some like to hack and attack coins for sport or to prove a point or to learn. GingerAle's answer seems to be the correct answer to me : the flaws are only exposable with enough resources.

It really isn't.

No significant resources at all are needed to exploit shellshock (can be done with an email) and not much to exploit heardbleed, and the same can be said for countless zero days that have actually been exploited in the wild. Why did all of these exploits exist for long periods of time before being discovered/reported/used?

The argument that something hasn't happened yet therefore it can't happen or requires a lot of resources is false.

Something that hasn't happened yet just hasn't happened. Nothing more can be inferred.

[smooth]

which cpu miner is recommended these days? still yam m7v?

tia

Depends what you mean by best. If you want optimized hash rate and pool mining, then sure YAM is fine. If you want to support the network and don't really care about direct return (and let's be honest unless you are using a lot of equipment it will be very small either way) then you should just solo mine in the daemon. That's what I do.