[ANN][MOTO] Motocoin

[e1ghtSpace]

Also, I think there is no way to allow 60 sec maps for humans anyway. Bots are incredibly good at solving 60 sec levels. In fact, human levels should have target time smaller than real blockchain levels.

It would also be very interesting if you try to solve the level with the same target time as you did before (27 sec) but without force restarts and compare how much easier it was. You can start the level and then unplug your internet connection to disable restarts (you will not get any reward of course).

Damn that sucks. You know I think humans would have a fair chance against the bots even now if our maps had a filter. Do you know how long your bot takes to complete a level on average (after it finds a map)

There is absolutelly no difference between your solution and mine in this particular aspect (if I understand your solution correctly). If you just divide 10 moto from each block among all free solutions in last 10 blocks you will get almost the same result.

Can you please refresh me on your solution? I don't recall hearing about it.

[ElvenArcher]

Damn that sucks. You know I think humans would have a fair chance against the bots even now if our maps had a filter. Do you know how long your bot takes to complete a level on average (after it finds a map)

After the last patch came out (that uses pathfinding to eliminate easy fall-through levels) map filters became almost useless so I didn't even bother with them too much. The best filter now is just to try to actually solve the level. At least for bots. They enumerate tens or hundreds of levels per second and just try to solve them.

But I still believe that humans can filter maps much better than bots. Humans can look at the map and almost immediatelly see some good ways to solve it. For example, they can see some small hole and quickly decide if it would be possible to squeeze through it or not (I don't mean that they simply measure the size of that hole, but that they take into account many other parameters such as if there is enough space around that hole, possible trajectories to enter that hole and so on).

The problem is that they can't then ride the bike along that choosen trajectory as quickly as bots can. It would be interesting if humans could draw the rough trajectory (with desired bike orientations) or just somehow lead the bike with the mouse and the rest of the work was up to the bot. This hybrid cound possibly outperform even current bots.

Can you please refresh me on your solution? I don't recall hearing about it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=591724.msg12684680#msg12684680

[e1ghtSpace]

Damn that sucks. You know I think humans would have a fair chance against the bots even now if our maps had a filter. Do you know how long your bot takes to complete a level on average (after it finds a map)

After the last patch came out (that uses pathfinding to eliminate easy fall-through levels) map filters became almost useless so I didn't even bother with them too much. The best filter now is just to try to actually solve the level. At least for bots. They enumerate tens or hundreds of levels per second and just try to solve them.

But I still believe that humans can filter maps much better than bots. Humans can look at the map and almost immediatelly see some good ways to solve it. For example, they can see some small hole and quickly decide if it would be possible to squeeze through it or not (I don't mean that they simply measure the size of that hole, but that they take into account many other parameters such as if there is enough space around that hole, possible trajectories to enter that hole and so on).

The problem is that they can't then ride the bike along that choosen trajectory as quickly as bots can. It would be interesting if humans could draw the rough trajectory (with desired bike orientations) or just somehow lead the bike with the mouse and the rest of the work was up to the bot. This hybrid cound possibly outperform even current bots.

Can you please refresh me on your solution? I don't recall hearing about it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=591724.msg12684680#msg12684680

Interesting thoughts about humans, but when I watch bot replays I can see an almost straight line to the finish line. But when I look through levels, by the time I find such a level where there is a clear path time is almost up to solve the level. It is almost impossible for me to solve levels. You can see in my video, I finally found a block after 35 minutes of searching. I came close once but the time just wasn't long enough for me to grab the coins.

Actually you're right. Thinking back to the first days of Motocoin, I could get one block at least every 10 minutes, and I wasn't even trying hard. Right now I need to try very hard and the only reason I got that block on the video is because the bots didn't find a block for 3 minutes. You can see I even gave up because I thought I wouldn't have enough time (when I sent that girl a message) but then I somehow managed to gab the coin at the end.

[Violincoin]

Is this coin still alive?

[e1ghtSpace]

Is this coin still alive?

You can still sync, so I guess so.

[e1ghtSpace]

I hate to ask, but has development started yet or are we still discussing options?

Is there an open source public bot that works on the current version?

[ElvenArcher]

Is there an open source public bot that works on the current version?

No, all previous open source bots don't work now. The last working public bot is closed source and for Windows only.

[e1ghtSpace]

Has development continued or has it stopped?

[Battareus]

If anyone thought Human Mining was not possible, well, you're wrong!

I have successfully mined a block! It took around 40 minutes, but I did it!

I have uploaded the video to youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCPHtSjqNI0

Oh LOL it was fun, when before you reach a block in first time some girl writes you and reset a level =)

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Has development continued or has it stopped?

I fiddled a bit with a few patch concepts this week but did not get to a start that I was happy with.  However I did not have a lot of time to apply to it.

Also I've been pondering an alternative approach of a proposal that combines the "free level" faucet distribution mechanic with a proof-of-stake like mining to achieve the same outcome without the network paying out for the free levels.  The idea is that users (who already have coins) could bond a limited number of coins in a commitment transaction to get a seed for a level that spans multiple blocks.  They'd then have a fixed number of blocks after the commitment in which to submit a solution.  Their coins would remain locked for the duration of the period, but at the end of the period if they have found their solution they can submit it along with a block header signing to claim a stake block, with a reward set as a percentage of their stake, not to exceed the normal block reward.  In the period between their commitment and their solution submission their staked amount would be eroded, with a small portion being put into the faucet pool at each block.  (Less than their block reward, total)  Users without coins could then mine against "free levels" to claim a portion of this pool.

In this way, it would be users who are staking (but not meeting their solution requirement "immediately") who would be paying into the faucet instead of the network itself paying in.  This mitigates the concern about the network paying for work that isn't applied to securing the chain, as the network would still only be paying for "real" work or stake bonding, both of which do add depth to the chain.

There are still some problems with the concept to work out, so I'm not entirely convinced yet that it is viable.  However if it could be made to work I think it would be quite a beneficial option.  It could add two attractive new ways to mine moto without facing constant level restarts and doesn't (indirectly) reduce security on the network as the "free level faucet" alone arguably does.  It also provides for a nice "on ramp" to real mining, where a user can go from "faucet" mining tiny amounts with virtually unlimited time to solve levels, to staking their small amounts of coins in a more time constrained challenge to get more than the faucet trickle rewards, to finally competing in the "real" work challenge where they are on the block clock and have to deal with restarts, but get the greatest reward for their work.

Thoughts?

[BTCat]

A faucet would be nice. Lately Chopcoin.io is quite popular you should check it out. It has a faucet playground and also tournament options.

It would be great to have option for multiple players in the same field, even if it's 5 or 10 bikes at the same time, and the one that get's the coin wins ofcourse.
That would make more competition and more sense of community. Add a chat, tipping etc. Just some ideas. I think Moto can become more popular if it has more features and less worry about bots.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

A faucet would be nice. Lately Chopcoin.io is quite popular you should check it out. It has a faucet playground and also tournament options.

What we are talking about is more of an on-chain, decentralized faucet.

It would be great to have option for multiple players in the same field, even if it's 5 or 10 bikes at the same time, and the one that get's the coin wins ofcourse.

Who would control the rewinds?

That would make more competition and more sense of community. Add a chat, tipping etc. Just some ideas. I think Moto can become more popular if it has more features and less worry about bots.

Again, the worry is not about bots, directly, but about the ongoing lack of any decentralization of the security...

[e1ghtSpace]

It would be great to have option for multiple players in the same field, even if it's 5 or 10 bikes at the same time, and the one that get's the coin wins ofcourse.

Who would control the rewinds?

Does that matter? Couldn't you just control your own?

[fitinplace]

Hi MOTOCoin Members,  i had a few questions about specs.

1.  Confirm received?
2.  Confirm rewards?
3.  Max coin cap?

[e1ghtSpace]

Hi MOTOCoin Members,  i had a few questions about specs.

1.  Confirm received?
2.  Confirm rewards?
3.  Max coin cap?

• Blocks are generated on average every 60 seconds.
• The reward for solving a block starts at 20 motocoins, which is halved every 1'000'000 blocks (about two years) and stops decreasing at 0.4 motocoins per block.
• Mining difficulty is adjusted every 2000 blocks through lowering the target time if blocks took less than an average of 60 seconds to generate, or raising the target time if blocks took longer than that.
• ≈40 million coins are to be generated during the first 12 years and ≈200,000 coins per year after.

[fitinplace]

Hi MOTOCoin Members,  i had a few questions about specs.

1.  Confirm received?
2.  Confirm rewards?
3.  Max coin cap?

• Blocks are generated on average every 60 seconds.
• The reward for solving a block starts at 20 motocoins, which is halved every 1'000'000 blocks (about two years) and stops decreasing at 0.4 motocoins per block.
• Mining difficulty is adjusted every 2000 blocks through lowering the target time if blocks took less than an average of 60 seconds to generate, or raising the target time if blocks took longer than that.
• ≈40 million coins are to be generated during the first 12 years and ≈200,000 coins per year after.

ty for the help!  but i was wondering how many confirms before spending a received coin in qt wallet?  how many confirms before spending a mined reward?

btw its ok ty for the help

[e1ghtSpace]

Hi MOTOCoin Members,  i had a few questions about specs.

1.  Confirm received?
2.  Confirm rewards?
3.  Max coin cap?

• Blocks are generated on average every 60 seconds.
• The reward for solving a block starts at 20 motocoins, which is halved every 1'000'000 blocks (about two years) and stops decreasing at 0.4 motocoins per block.
• Mining difficulty is adjusted every 2000 blocks through lowering the target time if blocks took less than an average of 60 seconds to generate, or raising the target time if blocks took longer than that.
• ≈40 million coins are to be generated during the first 12 years and ≈200,000 coins per year after.

ty for the help!  but i was wondering how many confirms before spending a received coin in qt wallet?  how many confirms before spending a mined reward?

btw its ok ty for the help

I believe it is 120 but I am not sure. That was actually just a guess, I have no idea.

It seems awfully quiet here, any development going on?

[HunterMinerCrafter]

I believe it is 120 but I am not sure. That was actually just a guess, I have no idea.

The COINBASE_MATURITY value is set at 100 blocks.  The additional 20 blocks no longer applies, IIRC.  I will have to double check this.  (You might be right, it might be 120.  Well, it is one of these two values, in any case.)

It seems awfully quiet here, any development going on?

Not really.  Personally, I've had very limited time lately.  I'd certainly dedicate some time to reviewing and potentially merging a patch proposal, but don't have anything sufficiently developed to propose yet, myself.

Our supposed bot operator has gone quiet again, without ever actually establishing himself as having domain over the bot.  (Would anyone else like to step forward and try to claim it?) 

[ElvenArcher]

I'm planning to release the source code of my bot (the best version I currently have, although very simple).

After the release I will definitely not be able to get >50% anymore and guarantee the security of moto, so it will be up to community.

To ensure minimal safety of this process I want at least 5 people to write here that they are ready to mine moto 24/7 at least for the first two weeks.


HMC, can you insert my solver into your bot and compile it for Windows and Linux? I can give you a function that just tries to solve a level with specific nonce.

Then, I think you could make password-protected archive with all that stuff, upload it and reveal the password at some specific date and time.

[e1ghtSpace]

I can mine 3 hours a day, so not really 24/7 but it's something.

Edit: Now would be a good time to invest because mining is easy and it will soon get harder but more profitable.

As of now you can buy 120 000 motocoins for 0.09 btc. And that's at 72 satoshis each.