[ANN] SilkCoin | New Wallet | NOW on MintPal / Cryptsy | FULL POS

[judgecrypto]

Reasoned discussion and balanced debate within a Bitcointalk thread? Wonders will never cease.

I'd like to make a suggestion, if I may. Solely with regards to the pre-mine issue.

I absolutely agree that people who are committing their time, energy and skills to developing a coin should be rewarded and, when their project is a success, rewarded handsomely. There is, however, the obvious problem of a large stash of SC that could potentially be dumped on the market or, at the very least, end up being cashed in over an extended period until there is little motivation for the coin developers to continue.

It would make most sense for the control of that pre-mine to be given to an independent Escrow and paid out according at a community-agreed rate for each team member, commensurate with the amount of work in any given time-period.

You, as the SC community of investors/speculators should agree a reasonable rate per hour/day/week that would permit the development team to earn an income corresponding to a FIAT equivalent in order to ensure they can commit as much time as possible and pay their bills and living expenses while they work for the coin project.

This would offer an opportunity for the proposed features to be developed as soon as possible, given the nature of the cryptocurrency world not being willing to wait too long for anything.

Incorporated into the regular pay/reward structure, should be team bonuses for project milestones accomplished.

A final bonus for each declared team member should be awarded for when the project has been fully released AND the price of the coin has maintained a predetermined level for a predetermined time in order to demonstrate that it has not been reached artificially. This final reward, to be honest, should most definitely provide for a significant reward for each team member, based on their workload and time committed to the project.

I would, however, recommend part of the pre-mine be allocated for an independent project-manager from outside of this coin's community, who can quality-check the work being done and manage the rollout stages to ensure successful releases.

Oversight is most definitely needed.

Having this coin's project managed by someone who is a respected IT/Crypto professional, would be worth every SC you pay them.

That is how you recover from the quality issues that were evident from the start of this project.



@Megaman: You may have valid points, you may have valid criticisms. What you do not have, however, is any credibility whatsoever because you attempted to profit from this situation by trying to extort money from the dev team. Any possible claim you might make regarding wanting to alert people to what you see as scam indicators are absolutely overshadowed by your actions. Whichever side of the fence people may be on these issue, both sides now see you as an extortionist. What possessed you to do such a thing is beyond me, but at least do the decent thing and learn from this lesson that which you need to not be so foolish in future. You are now shouting at an empty room, you have no audience.

Cryptodevil,

You seem to have some good ideas on the ways you want to run a coin.  I think we should let the dev and team run it the way they want.  Obviously they will take input from people but your post almost sounds like a hostile takeover of operations.  

Maybe you should create a coin and manage it this way?  The premine has been put to good use so far.  If you think the risk is too much for you then you are free to explore other coins.

Judge Crypto

[vcoinminer0938]

I don't really see the buy wall support. Price go down to 1900, and I think target is 1500 this time...
Hope it will back to 4000 sato.. and I will catch some around 1500.
o. mintpal hit 1500.. I guess target price is 1000 sato this time?? :p

[Jacqul]

Reasoned discussion and balanced debate within a Bitcointalk thread? Wonders will never cease.

I'd like to make a suggestion, if I may. Solely with regards to the pre-mine issue.

I absolutely agree that people who are committing their time, energy and skills to developing a coin should be rewarded and, when their project is a success, rewarded handsomely. There is, however, the obvious problem of a large stash of SC that could potentially be dumped on the market or, at the very least, end up being cashed in over an extended period until there is little motivation for the coin developers to continue.

It would make most sense for the control of that pre-mine to be given to an independent Escrow and paid out according at a community-agreed rate for each team member, commensurate with the amount of work in any given time-period.

You, as the SC community of investors/speculators should agree a reasonable rate per hour/day/week that would permit the development team to earn an income corresponding to a FIAT equivalent in order to ensure they can commit as much time as possible and pay their bills and living expenses while they work for the coin project.

This would offer an opportunity for the proposed features to be developed as soon as possible, given the nature of the cryptocurrency world not being willing to wait too long for anything.

Incorporated into the regular pay/reward structure, should be team bonuses for project milestones accomplished.

A final bonus for each declared team member should be awarded for when the project has been fully released AND the price of the coin has maintained a predetermined level for a predetermined time in order to demonstrate that it has not been reached artificially. This final reward, to be honest, should most definitely provide for a significant reward for each team member, based on their workload and time committed to the project.

I would, however, recommend part of the pre-mine be allocated for an independent project-manager from outside of this coin's community, who can quality-check the work being done and manage the rollout stages to ensure successful releases.

Oversight is most definitely needed.

Having this coin's project managed by someone who is a respected IT/Crypto professional, would be worth every SC you pay them.

That is how you recover from the quality issues that were evident from the start of this project.


(Edited)

This is a wonderful idea!
It would be great if it was possible to set this up somehow.

I thought about it a bit more.
At the moment it seems that there is left (after bounties and payments):

367740.0064085
80253.65896604
631359.95182131
=
1079353.61719585

So approximately 2.4%

If 5 devs work for us$50/h 40h/w =  us$10 000

If we take 1SC to be worth us$0.02
we would need 500 000SC per week to pay all of them.

Which means if they give us all of the premine leaving nothing left for bounties etc, we would be able to pay them for 2 weeks from it.

For the hassle of finding a reliable escrow server, getting dev on board with this, organize a way to audit their input and programming and set up a payment system, it might be more effort than it is worth.
I would expect it would take a couple of days just to get it sorted out, I have no idea how to even start it.


You raise an excellent point about how to keep decs incentivized though.
Someone else suggested a dev fund by the community (this was in context of a destroyed premine) and offered 25k SC.
I wonder if this is not still a great idea. Either something like that, or perhaps contributions from stake profit.

I would also be willing to donate into an escrowed account from where we can fund devs directly with an audited system and appropriate oversight.
IT people are used to timesheets.


I don't think the premine can be used for this purpose. Either it is too small or SC is still worth too little. Obviously if price shoots up things could change.
I have been staring at a PC screen for too long though and if I am making some obvious cognitive errors, please correct me.

[judgecrypto]

Reasoned discussion and balanced debate within a Bitcointalk thread? Wonders will never cease.

I'd like to make a suggestion, if I may. Solely with regards to the pre-mine issue.

I absolutely agree that people who are committing their time, energy and skills to developing a coin should be rewarded and, when their project is a success, rewarded handsomely. There is, however, the obvious problem of a large stash of SC that could potentially be dumped on the market or, at the very least, end up being cashed in over an extended period until there is little motivation for the coin developers to continue.

It would make most sense for the control of that pre-mine to be given to an independent Escrow and paid out according at a community-agreed rate for each team member, commensurate with the amount of work in any given time-period.

You, as the SC community of investors/speculators should agree a reasonable rate per hour/day/week that would permit the development team to earn an income corresponding to a FIAT equivalent in order to ensure they can commit as much time as possible and pay their bills and living expenses while they work for the coin project.

This would offer an opportunity for the proposed features to be developed as soon as possible, given the nature of the cryptocurrency world not being willing to wait too long for anything.

Incorporated into the regular pay/reward structure, should be team bonuses for project milestones accomplished.

A final bonus for each declared team member should be awarded for when the project has been fully released AND the price of the coin has maintained a predetermined level for a predetermined time in order to demonstrate that it has not been reached artificially. This final reward, to be honest, should most definitely provide for a significant reward for each team member, based on their workload and time committed to the project.

I would, however, recommend part of the pre-mine be allocated for an independent project-manager from outside of this coin's community, who can quality-check the work being done and manage the rollout stages to ensure successful releases.

Oversight is most definitely needed.

Having this coin's project managed by someone who is a respected IT/Crypto professional, would be worth every SC you pay them.

That is how you recover from the quality issues that were evident from the start of this project.


(Edited)

This is a wonderful idea!
It would be great if it was possible to set this up somehow.

I thought about it a bit more.
At the moment it seems that there is left (after bounties and payments):

367740.0064085
80253.65896604
631359.95182131
=
1079353.61719585

So approximately 2.4%

If 5 devs work for us$50/h 40h/w =  us$10 000

If we take 1SC to be worth us$0.02
we would need 500 000SC per week to pay all of them.

Which means if they give us all of the premine leaving nothing left for bounties etc, we would be able to pay them for 2 weeks from it.

For the hassle of finding a reliable escrow server, getting dev on board with this, organize a way to audit their input and programming and set up a payment system, it might be more effort than it is worth.
I would expect it would take a couple of days just to get it sorted out, I have no idea how to even start it.


You raise an excellent point about how to keep decs incentivized though.
Someone else suggested a dev fund by the community (this was in context of a destroyed premine) and offered 25k SC.
I wonder if this is not still a great idea. Either something like that, or perhaps contributions from stake profit.

I would also be willing to donate into an escrowed account from where we can fund devs directly with an audited system and appropriate oversight.
IT people are used to timesheets.


I don't think the premine can be used for this purpose. Either it is too small or SC is still worth too little. Obviously if price shoots up things could change.
I have been staring at a PC screen for too long though and if I am making some obvious cognitive errors, please correct me.

Let the team work their way.  This is an attempt at a take over, plain and simple.  No need to keep on this.

[cryptodevil]

Let the team work their way.  This is an attempt at a take over, plain and simple.  No need to keep on this.

How on earth do you figure it could possibly be an 'attempt at a take over'? I suggested it be done by the SC community in order to address issues concerning both rewarding the development team and ensuring that the project had oversight by an independent expert.

What's being taken over and by whom? How would it be a 'hostile take over' if the proposal is that the community of investors/speculators who are buying this coin, get together to agree on implementing things that serve to resolve critical issues?

Your overtly-negative response is disconcerting.

[judgecrypto]

Let the team work their way.  This is an attempt at a take over, plain and simple.  No need to keep on this.

How on earth do you figure it could possibly be an 'attempt at a take over'? I suggested it be done by the SC community in order to address issues concerning both rewarding the development team and ensuring that the project had oversight by an independent expert.

What's being taken over and by whom? How would it be a 'hostile take over' if the proposal is that the community of investors/speculators who are buying this coin, get together to agree on implementing things that serve to resolve critical issues?

Your overtly-negative response is disconcerting.

As an investor you have a choice in what to invest in.  If you are unhappy with the premine then go invest in another coin.  If you think there are quality standards that you are unhappy with then go invest in another coin.   

If you have such strong ideas on a coin why not make one of your own and you can manage it any way you like?

[Mr.Joker]

another possibility is that if there is a SilkCoin Multipool, the 1% fee or another percentage is going to the devs.... (Just in case a part of the premine gets blocked)

Also a multipool creates buy pressure, that is what we really need atm

[nzminer]

If people feel there is an issue with the premine, than the community should have a vote on what to do with it.
Does Judge Crypto feel this is ideal?

Personally i dont have an issue at all, as an investor, i was aware from the start, secondly i knew that voting for a lower block reward for the second POW phase would in turn result in the premine percentage being higher.

This does not bother me, if it is decided to dump some of the premine, then i feel that starting a faucet is the only right thing to do with it.

Again, i trust the devs will make the right decision, i cant fault the whitepaper and have full faith in them.

This is a great community, we just have to ignore the trolls.

[Boyer]

I'm don't think people wants to pay the devs when the price is only dropping, sad but true. If the price did some increase (which it didn't do for weeks) then people would probably donate something. Now everyone is just loosing money if you did not invest when it was at 500 sat.

[judgecrypto]

If people feel there is an issue with the premine, than the community should have a vote on what to do with it.
Does Judge Crypto feel this is ideal?

Personally i dont have an issue at all, as an investor, i was aware from the start, secondly i knew that voting for a lower block reward for the second POW phase would in turn result in the premine percentage being higher.

This does not bother me, if it is decided to dump some of the premine, then i feel that starting a faucet is the only right thing to do with it.

Again, i trust the devs will make the right decision, i cant fault the whitepaper and have full faith in them.

This is a great community, we just have to ignore the trolls.

There is no issue with the premine.  There is a concerted effort to bring the value down on multiple fronts.  I have never seen a coin deliver such innovation attacked so ferociously.  It is amazing.

There is no need to vote here.  In fact after a certain point we should setup a fund address to add to it.  The fact is a premine is a finite resource.  It takes time and resources to launch a successful coin.  Many are using the premine to cause an issue where none exists.  The ONLY possible issue with a premine will be if the devs abandon the coin and sell.  They have shown they are not that way.

Now if we strip them of the premine and leave them no fund then you WILL DAMAGE your investment.

[judgecrypto]

I'm don't think people wants to pay the devs when the price is only dropping, sad but true. If the price did some increase (which it didn't do for weeks) then people would probably donate something. Now everyone is just loosing money if you did not invest when it was at 500 sat.

You only lose money if you sell.  People staring at the market 24 hours a day is the problem.  The long term outlook is bright for silk.  Any whale with bitcoin can move a market temporarily, hire some fudders to create panic and generally manipulate a market.

If you are investing, invest... let the devs dev.  You will make out in the long run.

[nzminer]

If people feel there is an issue with the premine, than the community should have a vote on what to do with it.
Does Judge Crypto feel this is ideal?

Personally i dont have an issue at all, as an investor, i was aware from the start, secondly i knew that voting for a lower block reward for the second POW phase would in turn result in the premine percentage being higher.

This does not bother me, if it is decided to dump some of the premine, then i feel that starting a faucet is the only right thing to do with it.

Again, i trust the devs will make the right decision, i cant fault the whitepaper and have full faith in them.

This is a great community, we just have to ignore the trolls.

There is no issue with the premine.  There is a concerted effort to bring the value down on multiple fronts.  I have never seen a coin deliver such innovation attacked so ferociously.  It is amazing.

There is no need to vote here.  In fact after a certain point we should setup a fund address to add to it.  The fact is a premine is a finite resource.  It takes time and resources to launch a successful coin.  Many are using the premine to cause an issue where none exists.  The ONLY possible issue with a premine will be if the devs abandon the coin and sell.  They have shown they are not that way.

Now if we strip them of the premine and leave them no fund then you WILL DAMAGE your investment.

Yes i tend to agree, i cant believe the amount of force trying to bring this down, the only other currency ive seen this sort of thing come close to is NXT. And those attempts have also failed.

[judgecrypto]

Judge please stop, you are hurting this coin more then you can imagine.

Cryptodevil made a proper point.

No he didnt.  He has done nothing to support the coin and has only tried to pound the devs on 1 code error and try to push a management framework on an already working team.

[judgecrypto]

another possibility is that if there is a SilkCoin Multipool, the 1% fee or another percentage is going to the devs.... (Just in case a part of the premine gets blocked)

Also a multipool creates buy pressure, that is what we really need atm

A multipool is being worked on.  I can assure you of that.  Everyone agrees it would be good to have.

[MEGAman]

If people feel there is an issue with the premine, than the community should have a vote on what to do with it.
Does Judge Crypto feel this is ideal?

Personally i dont have an issue at all, as an investor, i was aware from the start, secondly i knew that voting for a lower block reward for the second POW phase would in turn result in the premine percentage being higher.

This does not bother me, if it is decided to dump some of the premine, then i feel that starting a faucet is the only right thing to do with it.

Again, i trust the devs will make the right decision, i cant fault the whitepaper and have full faith in them.

This is a great community, we just have to ignore the trolls.

There is no issue with the premine.  There is a concerted effort to bring the value down on multiple fronts.  I have never seen a coin deliver such innovation attacked so ferociously.  It is amazing.

There is no need to vote here.  In fact after a certain point we should setup a fund address to add to it.  The fact is a premine is a finite resource.  It takes time and resources to launch a successful coin.  Many are using the premine to cause an issue where none exists.  The ONLY possible issue with a premine will be if the devs abandon the coin and sell.  They have shown they are not that way.

Now if we strip them of the premine and leave them no fund then you WILL DAMAGE your investment.

If you guys haven't figured it out by now, judgecrypto and Silkcoin are the same person. There is no other explanation why this guy would so violently oppose something that is both fair and a positive for the long-term value of the coin. If he wasn't benefiting from the premine he would be more open to the discussion. We're talking about a premine that started at 2% and was then changed to 4.5%. Again, who cares who voted on the spec change? Of course people already holding a ton of coins wanted to reduce the second PoW period - they would then instantly own a bigger share of the coins and anybody that comes later gets less. Horrible decision for the distribution and a horrible decision due to the huge increase on the premine it resulted in. Nobody thought this through because it was a poor decision all-around. The specs of the coin changed after it was already launched the the premine more than doubled. 4.5% is insane and people will never stop talking about it. Never - it's just a simple fact that people are sick of getting burned by heavily premined crap. Clearly they aren't interested in addressing this - they aren't going to give up. The last thing these guys care about is what is in your best interest.

[Boyer]

I don't think people wants to pay the devs when the price is only dropping, sad but true. If the price did some increase (which it didn't do for weeks) then people would probably donate something. Now everyone is just loosing money if you did not invest when it was at 500 sat.

You only lose money if you sell.  People staring at the market 24 hours a day is the problem.  The long term outlook is bright for silk.  Any whale with bitcoin can move a market temporarily, hire some fudders to create panic and generally manipulate a market.

If you are investing, invest... let the devs dev.  You will make out in the long run.

Sure, same thing happened to blackcoin price, and to a lot of other coins that just died after such massive down pressure. I guess time will tell if the agenda is pure. I guess it is pretty difficult not to look at price since it has been going down since it hit mintpal. I believe in this coin, and I hope I'm not wrong about it.

[judgecrypto]

MEGAMan is a known EXTORTIONIST... plain and simple...

He himself is a scammer and offered to leave Silk Coin alone for .5 BTC.

Obviously Mcdonalds is not hiring in his area because he is still here ...

He acts like some forum lone ranger that cares about you.  He would sell his mother out for a free cheesburger.

[1Referee]

GUYS FFS STOP THIS BULLSH!T DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PREMINE.

You all are just silly, why are you guys keep talking about something that isn't a problem.
The devs need the premine to stay loyal to the coin, look at other coins, as soon as the devs run out of premine they mostly left the project....

You fanboys only hurt the price of SC, act like a real community and look at the bright things, things that can really change how we trade and see crypto. That's SilkCoin project,

[judgecrypto]

I don't think people wants to pay the devs when the price is only dropping, sad but true. If the price did some increase (which it didn't do for weeks) then people would probably donate something. Now everyone is just loosing money if you did not invest when it was at 500 sat.

You only lose money if you sell.  People staring at the market 24 hours a day is the problem.  The long term outlook is bright for silk.  Any whale with bitcoin can move a market temporarily, hire some fudders to create panic and generally manipulate a market.

If you are investing, invest... let the devs dev.  You will make out in the long run.

Sure, same thing happened to blackcoin price, and to a lot of other coins that just died after such massive down pressure. I guess time will tell if the agenda is pure. I guess it is pretty difficult not to look at price since it has been going down since it hit mintpal. I believe in this coin, and I hope I'm not wrong about it.

Stay true.  I have seen the internal team discussions.  They are hard working people.   We need to support the team instead of causing them to deal with all these dead end forum posts.  We should be thanking them for actually working on innovations.

[nzminer]

GUYS FFS STOP THIS BULLSH!T DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PREMINE.

You all are just silly, why are you guys keep talking about something that isn't a problem.
The devs need the premine to stay loyal to the coin, look at other coins, as soon as the devs run out of premine they mostly left the project....

You fanboys only hurt the price of SC, act like a real community and look at the bright things, things that can really change how we trade and see crypto. That's SilkCoin project,

Completley agree!