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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1149002 times)
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malafaya
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January 09, 2017, 08:52:19 AM
 #7081

Noob question: with 10 CLAM how long am I supposed to wait (on average) to stake anything?

If you run "getstakinginfo" in the client's debug window it will show you something like this:

Quote
$ clamd getstakinginfo
{
  "enabled" : true,
  "staking" : true,
  "errors" : "",
  "currentblocksize" : 1000,
  "currentblocktx" : 0,
  "pooledtx" : 0,
  "difficulty" : 139725.8096014384,
  "search-interval" : 16,
  "weight" : 21368.11582037,
  "netstakeweight" : 1508267.639858975,
  "expectedtime" : 4508
}

The 'weight' is the number of CLAMs your wallet is staking.
The 'expectedtime' is the expected number of seconds until your next stake.

The above wallet has 21k CLAMs and should stake every 4.5k seconds.

Extrapolating from that, 10 CLAMs should stake every 4.5k * 21k / 10 = 9450000 seconds = 109 days.

A general rule of thumb is that you need around 1000 CLAMs to stake once per day, so it makes sense that if you have 100 times less than 1000 CLAMs it will take 100 times more than 1 day. Also, that 1000 CLAMs number is probably out of date now. It goes up as more CLAMs are staked.

Thank you for the thorough explanation, dooglus.
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January 09, 2017, 02:54:47 PM
 #7082

I ended up changing the hot wallet client code such that it never spends the dust outputs, but instead merges them whenever the wallet stakes. That is free to do, and so the cost of handling the dust is passed on to all the full nodes in terms of bandwidth and storage, but at least the UTXO set isn't being polluted.

Here's an example of a staking transaction tidying up a bunch of faucet dust.

hi dooglus,
will this be included in the official wallet?
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January 09, 2017, 06:18:22 PM
 #7083

I ended up changing the hot wallet client code such that it never spends the dust outputs, but instead merges them whenever the wallet stakes. That is free to do, and so the cost of handling the dust is passed on to all the full nodes in terms of bandwidth and storage, but at least the UTXO set isn't being polluted.

Here's an example of a staking transaction tidying up a bunch of faucet dust.

hi dooglus,
will this be included in the official wallet?

I am not certain what method dooglus is using on Just-Dice, though I expect he using the commit that is already incorporated into the client. 
 
By setting flags : 
 
Code:
combineany=1
splitsize=n
combinelimit=n
 
You can control how your wallet handles staking, including if it will automatically combine dust from other addresses.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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January 09, 2017, 07:01:39 PM
 #7084

I ended up changing the hot wallet client code such that it never spends the dust outputs, but instead merges them whenever the wallet stakes. That is free to do, and so the cost of handling the dust is passed on to all the full nodes in terms of bandwidth and storage, but at least the UTXO set isn't being polluted.

Here's an example of a staking transaction tidying up a bunch of faucet dust.

hi dooglus,
will this be included in the official wallet?

I am not certain what method dooglus is using on Just-Dice, though I expect he using the commit that is already incorporated into the client.  
  
By setting flags :  
  
Code:
combineany=1
splitsize=n
combinelimit=n
 
You can control how your wallet handles staking, including if it will automatically combine dust from other addresses.

thank you for your reply, can you please tell me where i can find the list of all available settings?
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January 09, 2017, 08:14:17 PM
 #7085

I ended up changing the hot wallet client code such that it never spends the dust outputs, but instead merges them whenever the wallet stakes. That is free to do, and so the cost of handling the dust is passed on to all the full nodes in terms of bandwidth and storage, but at least the UTXO set isn't being polluted.
Here's an example of a staking transaction tidying up a bunch of faucet dust.
hi dooglus,
will this be included in the official wallet?
I am not certain what method dooglus is using on Just-Dice, though I expect he using the commit that is already incorporated into the client.  
By setting flags :  
Code:
combineany=1
splitsize=n
combinelimit=n
You can control how your wallet handles staking, including if it will automatically combine dust from other addresses.
thank you for your reply, can you please tell me where i can find the list of all available settings?

A good resource for runtime commands can be found with a simple:
Code:
help
 
In the console. 
 
Command-line flags/options can be seen in the GUI here: 
Console(sidebar)->Information(tab)->Command-line options
 
 
If you are more of a 'code is documentation' type of person, this might be a good resource for you: 
https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/blob/master/src/init.cpp#L181

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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January 09, 2017, 09:22:02 PM
 #7086

I ended up changing the hot wallet client code such that it never spends the dust outputs, but instead merges them whenever the wallet stakes. That is free to do, and so the cost of handling the dust is passed on to all the full nodes in terms of bandwidth and storage, but at least the UTXO set isn't being polluted.
Here's an example of a staking transaction tidying up a bunch of faucet dust.
hi dooglus,
will this be included in the official wallet?
I am not certain what method dooglus is using on Just-Dice, though I expect he using the commit that is already incorporated into the client.  
By setting flags :  
Code:
combineany=1
splitsize=n
combinelimit=n
You can control how your wallet handles staking, including if it will automatically combine dust from other addresses.
thank you for your reply, can you please tell me where i can find the list of all available settings?

A good resource for runtime commands can be found with a simple:
Code:
help
 
In the console. 
 
Command-line flags/options can be seen in the GUI here: 
Console(sidebar)->Information(tab)->Command-line options
 
 
If you are more of a 'code is documentation' type of person, this might be a good resource for you: 
https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/blob/master/src/init.cpp#L181

thank you for your reply

help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
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January 10, 2017, 12:13:32 AM
 #7087

I scooped (dug) 4 lots of CLAMs from my older BTC & LTC addresses, yielding 18.4 CLAM. Nice! Smiley
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January 10, 2017, 12:25:17 AM
 #7088

I scooped (dug) 4 lots of CLAMs from my older BTC & LTC addresses, yielding 18.4 CLAM. Nice! Smiley

Thats how it works Smiley

Nice for you!
Keep on digging and staking.
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January 10, 2017, 04:08:12 AM
 #7089

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?

You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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January 10, 2017, 07:05:41 PM
 #7090

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?

You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.

thank you Smiley

another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
malafaya
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January 10, 2017, 07:49:41 PM
 #7091

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?

You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.

thank you Smiley

another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?

AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
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January 10, 2017, 10:09:05 PM
 #7092

I'm glad to see Clams is still going.
I've been thinking about trying to use clamSpeech to provide the backbone for some kind of censorship-resistant discussion forum, something like reddit/twitter. It seems like there are hard pushes for censorship the past year or two. (My twitter account recently got suspended, so now I have the motivation of revenge.)
Would there be any objection by the Clams devs/stakeholders to me trying to do this? It could potentially land people who stake Clams in legal trouble if they are in countries that punish expression of certain ideas. And let's face it, at this point that's every country.

Though rather mundane, political/religious affiliation/speech is already added to every transaction by default (though it can be changed by the user). 
 
Additionally, last I knew, the Just-Dice trollbox was posting random chat-lines as well. 
 
The only warning I would personally offer would be that eventually, in order to prevent spam, transaction fees are likely to be handled differently in the future.

Thanks for the reply and warning. Smiley Right now it's just something I'm thinking about, so time will tell.

Would there be any objection by the Clams devs/stakeholders to me trying to do this?

Considerate of you to ask. In the absence of either sanctions or penalties, objectors are impotent.

You're not the only one seeking independence from corporate overreach, others see the same need:

https://github.com/elendirx/web2web/

Quote
How It Works

This repo contains two HTML files:

index.html is responsible for loading the webpage from torrent,
webpage.html is the actual webpage.
When you open index.html in the browser (live demo), here's what happens:

Bitcoin address 1DhDyqB4xgDWjZzfbYGeutqdqBhSF7tGt4 is searched for the latest outgoing transaction containing OP_RETURN script. Inside the script there is a torrent infohash of webpage.html.
webpage.html is downloaded from torrent via webtorrent and displayed.
How Is It Updated

To perform serverless updates, torrent of the updated webpage.html is created and its infohash is inserted into new bitcoin transaction sent from 1DhDyqB4xgDWjZzfbYGeutqdqBhSF7tGt4 address.

How Is It Domainless

Save the index.html to your PC and open it from localhost. It will still work and receive updates.

In the example, the tx data containing the torrenthash is retrieved from a Bitcoin API service. “All” that would be required to make this work with CLAMs is a server to provide the same API for the CLAMs blockchain (assuming dooglus isn't already providing it).

Publishing by torrent is something of an interim measure. Less, ah, informal solutions are being developed: SOLID, IPFS amongst others.

Cheers

Graham


Thanks for the pointer. I'll look into it.

If Israel is destroyed, I will devote the rest of my life to the extermination of the human species. Any species that goes down this road again less than 100 years after the holocaust needs to be fucking wiped out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Affair_of_the_Gang_of_Barbarians
Ilan Halimi: tortured and murdered in France by barbarian Jew haters who'd be very comfortable here at bitcointalk.
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January 11, 2017, 03:46:42 AM
 #7093

I scooped (dug) 4 lots of CLAMs from my older BTC & LTC addresses, yielding 18.4 CLAM. Nice! Smiley

Fuck ya!


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cozie
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January 11, 2017, 09:41:59 AM
 #7094

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?

You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.

thank you Smiley

another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?

AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.

n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?
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January 11, 2017, 09:54:33 AM
 #7095

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.
thank you Smiley
another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?

You are correct. 
'Staking' on CLAM doesn't take into account the age of the coins or the number of times those coins have staked. 
 
Coins must wait a period of time after each stake to ensure they are deeper in the chain before staking again - but, other than that, staking is a function of coin amount and difficulty.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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January 11, 2017, 10:04:21 AM
 #7096

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.
thank you Smiley
another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?

You are correct. 
'Staking' on CLAM doesn't take into account the age of the coins or the number of times those coins have staked. 
 
Coins must wait a period of time after each stake to ensure they are deeper in the chain before staking again - but, other than that, staking is a function of coin amount and difficulty.

so at this point try to stake with the claim from btc/ltc/doge blockchain is useless?
is better to have them all together?
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January 11, 2017, 10:13:20 AM
 #7097

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
You can also put them in your clam.conf file. 
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.
thank you Smiley
another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?
You are correct. 
'Staking' on CLAM doesn't take into account the age of the coins or the number of times those coins have staked. 
Coins must wait a period of time after each stake to ensure they are deeper in the chain before staking again - but, other than that, staking is a function of coin amount and difficulty.
so at this point try to stake with the claim from btc/ltc/doge blockchain is useless?
is better to have them all together?

Much like hash rate in a proof-of-work crypto: more is better. 
 
That said, the total balance staking is more important than the size of the individual outputs staking. 
Too many individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the time it takes to check the outputs.
Too few individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the percentage that are immature at a given time after staking. 

If you have a very small total balance, it might take a long time to get a stake (though the realized percentage increase when you do would be higher).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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January 11, 2017, 10:21:34 AM
Last edit: January 11, 2017, 10:32:07 AM by cozie
 #7098

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
You can also put them in your clam.conf file.  
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.
thank you Smiley
another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?
You are correct.  
'Staking' on CLAM doesn't take into account the age of the coins or the number of times those coins have staked.  
Coins must wait a period of time after each stake to ensure they are deeper in the chain before staking again - but, other than that, staking is a function of coin amount and difficulty.
so at this point try to stake with the claim from btc/ltc/doge blockchain is useless?
is better to have them all together?

Much like hash rate in a proof-of-work crypto: more is better.  
  
That said, the total balance staking is more important than the size of the individual outputs staking.  
Too many individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the time it takes to check the outputs.
Too few individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the percentage that are immature at a given time after staking.  

If you have a very small total balance, it might take a long time to get a stake (though the realized percentage increase when you do would be higher).

thank you Smiley
so let's assume i have ~100 CLAM, is better to have them in block of ~4.16 CLAM or not?

edit: is better to have all the CLAM in the same address or it does not matter?
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January 12, 2017, 05:51:37 PM
 #7099

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
You can also put them in your clam.conf file.  
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.
thank you Smiley
another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?
You are correct.  
'Staking' on CLAM doesn't take into account the age of the coins or the number of times those coins have staked.  
Coins must wait a period of time after each stake to ensure they are deeper in the chain before staking again - but, other than that, staking is a function of coin amount and difficulty.
so at this point try to stake with the claim from btc/ltc/doge blockchain is useless?
is better to have them all together?
Much like hash rate in a proof-of-work crypto: more is better.  
That said, the total balance staking is more important than the size of the individual outputs staking.  
Too many individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the time it takes to check the outputs.
Too few individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the percentage that are immature at a given time after staking.  
If you have a very small total balance, it might take a long time to get a stake (though the realized percentage increase when you do would be higher).
thank you Smiley
so let's assume i have ~100 CLAM, is better to have them in block of ~4.16 CLAM or not?
edit: is better to have all the CLAM in the same address or it does not matter?

It might make sense to split 100 CLAM into piles of something like 5 or 10. 
The idea is that when split up a smaller percentage is immature when you stake a block. 
However, going too small might be undesirable as it slows down the speed with which you can check them and they must also be gathered when you decide to send them.

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January 12, 2017, 10:27:15 PM
 #7100

thank you for your reply
help not contain any of combineany, splitsize or combinelimit
I can only see them in init.cpp as you said, seems to me that can only be specified as args of clamd, correct?
You can also put them in your clam.conf file.  
You should also be able to add them to the target field of a shortcut on windows as well, I believe.
thank you Smiley
another info, is ok that "weight" in "getstakinginfo" is always the same and not increase his value (at least not in 4 days)?
AFAIK the "weight" in the Clam wallet is the same as the number of CLAM coins staking.
n00b question: this way stacking is only luck? there isn't something like a score system (more time you are stacking more score you gain)?
You are correct.  
'Staking' on CLAM doesn't take into account the age of the coins or the number of times those coins have staked.  
Coins must wait a period of time after each stake to ensure they are deeper in the chain before staking again - but, other than that, staking is a function of coin amount and difficulty.
so at this point try to stake with the claim from btc/ltc/doge blockchain is useless?
is better to have them all together?

Much like hash rate in a proof-of-work crypto: more is better.  
  
That said, the total balance staking is more important than the size of the individual outputs staking.  
Too many individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the time it takes to check the outputs.
Too few individual outputs and you might be inefficient due to the percentage that are immature at a given time after staking.  

If you have a very small total balance, it might take a long time to get a stake (though the realized percentage increase when you do would be higher).

thank you Smiley
so let's assume i have ~100 CLAM, is better to have them in block of ~4.16 CLAM or not?

edit: is better to have all the CLAM in the same address or it does not matter?

You should be aware with this amount may have to wait min 15-20 day for first 1 CLAM, assuming that you pc turn on 24/7
(wallet use quite a lot computer resources) so my suggestion better staking on justdice or btcpop (of course if you trust them)

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