[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[Johnny00]

I'm trying to search everywhere. Is there a certain percentage you earn from staking clam or is it just random? Thanks

[smooth]

I'm trying to search everywhere. Is there a certain percentage you earn from staking clam or is it just random? Thanks

1 CLAM stake reward is paid per minute (1440/day), distributed across all the coins staking. The latter varies but is usually around 1-1.5 million. Divide your stake by that number and multiply by 1440 to tell how much per day you would expect. Last I calculated it was around 3% per month, but that might be out of date by now.

Example: with 1000 CLAM staking by you and assume 1 million CLAM total staking on the network you should get 1/1000 of the rewards or 1.44 CLAM/day. Of course randomly it could be less or more than this on any given day.

[ccminer.cf]

I'm trying to search everywhere. Is there a certain percentage you earn from staking clam or is it just random? Thanks

1 CLAM stake reward is paid per minute (1440/day), distributed across all the coins staking. The latter varies but is usually around 1-1.5 million. Divide your stake by that number and multiply by 1440 to tell how much per day you would expect. Last I calculated it was around 3% per month, but that might be out of date by now.

Example: with 1000 CLAM staking by you and assume 1 million CLAM total staking on the network you should get 1/1000 of the rewards or 1.44 CLAM/day. Of course randomly it could be less or more than this on any given day.

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

[smooth]

I'm trying to search everywhere. Is there a certain percentage you earn from staking clam or is it just random? Thanks

1 CLAM stake reward is paid per minute (1440/day), distributed across all the coins staking. The latter varies but is usually around 1-1.5 million. Divide your stake by that number and multiply by 1440 to tell how much per day you would expect. Last I calculated it was around 3% per month, but that might be out of date by now.

Example: with 1000 CLAM staking by you and assume 1 million CLAM total staking on the network you should get 1/1000 of the rewards or 1.44 CLAM/day. Of course randomly it could be less or more than this on any given day.

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

Use the getstakinginfo command in the wallet. If you are using the Qt wallet you might have to find the debug window.

[ccminer.cf]

I'm trying to search everywhere. Is there a certain percentage you earn from staking clam or is it just random? Thanks

1 CLAM stake reward is paid per minute (1440/day), distributed across all the coins staking. The latter varies but is usually around 1-1.5 million. Divide your stake by that number and multiply by 1440 to tell how much per day you would expect. Last I calculated it was around 3% per month, but that might be out of date by now.

Example: with 1000 CLAM staking by you and assume 1 million CLAM total staking on the network you should get 1/1000 of the rewards or 1.44 CLAM/day. Of course randomly it could be less or more than this on any given day.

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

Use the getstakinginfo command in the wallet. If you are using the Qt wallet you might have to find the debug window.

"expectedtime" : ******

is in second or minutes?

[ccminer.cf]

I'm trying to search everywhere. Is there a certain percentage you earn from staking clam or is it just random? Thanks

1 CLAM stake reward is paid per minute (1440/day), distributed across all the coins staking. The latter varies but is usually around 1-1.5 million. Divide your stake by that number and multiply by 1440 to tell how much per day you would expect. Last I calculated it was around 3% per month, but that might be out of date by now.

Example: with 1000 CLAM staking by you and assume 1 million CLAM total staking on the network you should get 1/1000 of the rewards or 1.44 CLAM/day. Of course randomly it could be less or more than this on any given day.

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

Use the getstakinginfo command in the wallet. If you are using the Qt wallet you might have to find the debug window.

"expectedtime" : ******

is in second or minutes?

I guess seconds

[smooth]

Yes seconds. 86400 = 1 day

[dooglus]

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

You can't know how many CLAMs are really staking, because staking is something people do in private. I have no way of knowing whether your coins are trying to stake or not until they actually stake a block. You could be trying and failing a lot, or you could just not be trying. Both would look the same to everyone who isn't you.

So all we can do is see how quickly blocks are being found, and look at the current difficulty, and make an estimate based on those data points. That's what "getstakinginfo" does.

Currently the just-dice staking wallet has 1190063.46139446 CLAMs actively trying to stake, but 'getstakinginfo' on that wallet says that the total network stake weight is only 1120725.089647847 CLAMs:

{
  "enabled" : true,
  "staking" : true,
  "errors" : "",
  "currentblocksize" : 2734,
  "currentblocktx" : 1,
  "pooledtx" : 1,
  "difficulty" : 100160.9552238806,
  "search-interval" : 16,
  "weight" : 1190063.46139446,
  "netstakeweight" : 1120725.089647847,
  "expectedtime" : 66
}

ie. its estimated netstakeweight is less than the weight in this wallet alone. So clearly the estimate isn't very accurate.

The expected time is in seconds.

[ccminer.cf]

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

You can't know how many CLAMs are really staking, because staking is something people do in private. I have no way of knowing whether your coins are trying to stake or not until they actually stake a block. You could be trying and failing a lot, or you could just not be trying. Both would look the same to everyone who isn't you.

So all we can do is see how quickly blocks are being found, and look at the current difficulty, and make an estimate based on those data points. That's what "getstakinginfo" does.

Currently the just-dice staking wallet has 1190063.46139446 CLAMs actively trying to stake, but 'getstakinginfo' on that wallet says that the total network stake weight is only 1120725.089647847 CLAMs:

{
  "enabled" : true,
  "staking" : true,
  "errors" : "",
  "currentblocksize" : 2734,
  "currentblocktx" : 1,
  "pooledtx" : 1,
  "difficulty" : 100160.9552238806,
  "search-interval" : 16,
  "weight" : 1190063.46139446,
  "netstakeweight" : 1120725.089647847,
  "expectedtime" : 66
}

ie. its estimated netstakeweight is less than the weight in this wallet alone. So clearly the estimate isn't very accurate.

The expected time is in seconds.

Practically your wallet is the network.
I like the project and you guys attitude, but this fact is quite an issue for this coin.
NO OFFENCE

bye

[forzendiablo]

where I can find the total number of staking clams?

You can't know how many CLAMs are really staking, because staking is something people do in private. I have no way of knowing whether your coins are trying to stake or not until they actually stake a block. You could be trying and failing a lot, or you could just not be trying. Both would look the same to everyone who isn't you.

So all we can do is see how quickly blocks are being found, and look at the current difficulty, and make an estimate based on those data points. That's what "getstakinginfo" does.

Currently the just-dice staking wallet has 1190063.46139446 CLAMs actively trying to stake, but 'getstakinginfo' on that wallet says that the total network stake weight is only 1120725.089647847 CLAMs:

{
  "enabled" : true,
  "staking" : true,
  "errors" : "",
  "currentblocksize" : 2734,
  "currentblocktx" : 1,
  "pooledtx" : 1,
  "difficulty" : 100160.9552238806,
  "search-interval" : 16,
  "weight" : 1190063.46139446,
  "netstakeweight" : 1120725.089647847,
  "expectedtime" : 66
}

ie. its estimated netstakeweight is less than the weight in this wallet alone. So clearly the estimate isn't very accurate.

The expected time is in seconds.

Practically your wallet is the network.
I like the project and you guys attitude, but this fact is quite an issue for this coin.
NO OFFENCE

bye

yep i also think there should be giveaway of some part of this - some contest or.. just giving to Legendary members ))))))))

but fo real - if 1 entity holds too much of the coin its not good.

[smooth]

What good would a giveaway do, if it were evan a viable option? People would probably dump their giveaway coins to others who would invest them on just-dice, possibly invest them on just-dice, or gamble them on just-dice and lose.

[dooglus]

yep i also think there should be giveaway of some part of this - some contest or.. just giving to Legendary members ))))))))

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but they're not mine to give away. The coins are owned by hundreds of different people.

but fo real - if 1 entity holds too much of the coin its not good.

I have no intention of using the concentration of staking weight in any way other than simply staking people's coins for them.

If you can think of a way of having the coins more spread out, please let us know.

The only serious suggestion I've heard is that of limiting the number of coins that Just-Dice will accept, but that doesn't seem to make any sense. I would prefer to see some competition open up so that there's demand for CLAM from more than just one source.

[smooth]

yep i also think there should be giveaway of some part of this - some contest or.. just giving to Legendary members ))))))))

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but they're not mine to give away. The coins are owned by hundreds of different people.

I originally thought that too, but then I realized such a suggestion is so absurd, he must have meant a giveaway of new coins in order to dilute that massive just-dice stash. I explained why (I think) that won't work, even if there were a chance in hell of it happening, which there isn't.

[ccminer.cf]

yep i also think there should be giveaway of some part of this - some contest or.. just giving to Legendary members ))))))))

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but they're not mine to give away. The coins are owned by hundreds of different people.

but fo real - if 1 entity holds too much of the coin its not good.

I have no intention of using the concentration of staking weight in any way other than simply staking people's coins for them.

If you can think of a way of having the coins more spread out, please let us know.

The only serious suggestion I've heard is that of limiting the number of coins that Just-Dice will accept, but that doesn't seem to make any sense. I would prefer to see some competition open up so that there's demand for CLAM from more than just one source.

This concentration of coins is intimidating for the new adopters, like me for example.
I really like the project, the people behind it and how the coin works, but how can I start to use it in a massive way (that will benefit the network) with my project if the 90% of all the minable coins per day are going to the same "company"

You could, for example, limitate your staking numbers of hours per day in order to give us some "grace" hours of "fair" mining. Like instead of 24 hours per day you could stake for 20.5, so at the end of the week we will get one full day of staking without your huge presence.
I really don't know if it makes any sense.

Bye

[rocoro]

This concentration of coins is intimidating for the new adopters, like me for example.
I really like the project, the people behind it and how the coin works, but how can I start to use it in a massive way (that will benefit the network) with my project if the 90% of all the minable coins per day are going to the same "company"

You could, for example, limitate your staking numbers of hours per day in order to give us some "grace" hours of "fair" mining. Like instead of 24 hours per day you could stake for 20.5, so at the end of the week we will get one full day of staking without your huge presence.
I really don't know if it makes any sense.

Bye

Its not his huge presence,  its all the people of just-dice. 
Problem is I don't see how competition would benefit individual people staking on their own much, 
ie. if there was competition (as in other similar sites using clam the same way) I doubt the network stake weight would change much, it would just be spread out over other sites.

Would be better if coin age came into play, so everyone who has been holding coins longer has better / equal chance of staking,  but also have it so it remains proof of *working* stake - have to have wallet actively staking.  Not sure if that is possible or the technicalities of it.   I'm guessing jd site investors would still be the majority amount staking in that scenario but maybe to a lesser degree?



 

[ccminer.cf]

This concentration of coins is intimidating for the new adopters, like me for example.
I really like the project, the people behind it and how the coin works, but how can I start to use it in a massive way (that will benefit the network) with my project if the 90% of all the minable coins per day are going to the same "company"

You could, for example, limitate your staking numbers of hours per day in order to give us some "grace" hours of "fair" mining. Like instead of 24 hours per day you could stake for 20.5, so at the end of the week we will get one full day of staking without your huge presence.
I really don't know if it makes any sense.

Bye

Its not his huge presence,  its all the people of just-dice. 

Like this CLAM is no more than the just dice currency, and I really think that is a pity



 

[ccminer.cf]

This concentration of coins is intimidating for the new adopters, like me for example.
I really like the project, the people behind it and how the coin works, but how can I start to use it in a massive way (that will benefit the network) with my project if the 90% of all the minable coins per day are going to the same "company"

You could, for example, limitate your staking numbers of hours per day in order to give us some "grace" hours of "fair" mining. Like instead of 24 hours per day you could stake for 20.5, so at the end of the week we will get one full day of staking without your huge presence.
I really don't know if it makes any sense.

Bye

Would be better if coin age came into play, so everyone who has been holding coins longer has better / equal chance of staking,  but also have it so it remains proof of *working* stake - have to have wallet actively staking.  Not sure if that is possible or the technicalities of it.   I'm guessing jd site investors would still be the majority amount staking in that scenario but maybe to a lesser degree?

Coin age could be calculated just if the wallet has kept open

[tspacepilot]

This concentration of coins is intimidating for the new adopters, like me for example.
I really like the project, the people behind it and how the coin works, but how can I start to use it in a massive way (that will benefit the network) with my project if the 90% of all the minable coins per day are going to the same "company"

You could, for example, limitate your staking numbers of hours per day in order to give us some "grace" hours of "fair" mining. Like instead of 24 hours per day you could stake for 20.5, so at the end of the week we will get one full day of staking without your huge presence.
I really don't know if it makes any sense.

Bye

Its not his huge presence,  its all the people of just-dice. 

^^^This.  If dooglus decided not to stake 24/7 then I think a lot of people would reevaluate whether or not we want him staking our coins for us.  As it works now, he's doing some work for us (holding our coins securely and staking with them) but he's also getting some reward for that work (his 10% fee on profits, his usage of our money to bankroll his gambling site).  If he changes that, everyone's going to have to reevaluate.  My point is just that you shouldn't think of the just-dice bankroll as only belonging to dooglus, he certainly owns some (probably massive) percentage of it (i don't really know how much is owned by him, he releases investor amounts regularly), but in many ways, he's merely providing a service for many many people in the CLAM community.

[SuperClam]

It is morally untenable for Just-Dice to hold such a large percentage of the coin supply. 
It is equally morally untenable to take any step to 'acquisition' those coins. 
 
Those coins belong to the Just-Dice users and any attempt to change that would not only be 'wrong', but also erode the foundational trust that control on the chain is sacrosanct. 
This is of course ignoring the fact that any such change would be rejected by the staking majority, and user majority of the network. 
   
Rewarding 'active' nodes (which i have heard referred to as 'Proof-Of-Activity' and various other names) is a complicated topic. 
The network only knows that which is published on the chain. 
The concept of age is based on the time an output has remained, unmoved, as a recorded transaction on the chain. 
I am not aware of a secure method of verifying node operation. 
 
I don't believe the concern with Just-Dice is misplaced; removing trust from the system is an important goal and consideration. 
That said, one could argue that those coins exist in the control of Just-Dice through the aggregate choice of the network, and users trusting the service. 
 
"Just-Dice hurts the network!" 
The above argument becomes less clear when 'the network', made up of the users and holders of CLAM, has decided to trust JD of their own accord. 
 

[dooglus]

how can I start to use it in a massive way (that will benefit the network) with my project if the 90% of all the minable coins per day are going to the same "company"

85% of the blocks each day are staked by Just-Dice because 85% of the actively staking coins are working at Just-Dice. The 2nd biggest CLAM holder (Poloniex) doesn't stake their coins at all. If you buy up 10% of the CLAMs and start staking them, you will stake more than 10% of the blocks, because your 2nd biggest competitor (Poloniex) isn't even trying. That seems more than fair - you get more than your fair share of stake reward. It's unfair to Poloniex customers who are missing out on potential earnings, but they knew that when they deposited, so they can hardly complain.

You could, for example, limitate your staking numbers of hours per day in order to give us some "grace" hours of "fair" mining.

That would be unfair to the people trusting Just-Dice to stake for them. If I had to chose between staking my coins at Just-Dice (where they have 1 day off per week) and staking them at home (where they work 24/7) I would stake them at home.

Rewarding 'active' nodes (which i have heard referred to as 'Proof-Of-Activity' and various other names) is a complicated topic. 
The network only knows that which is published on the chain. 
The concept of age is based on the time an output has remained, unmoved, as a recorded transaction on the chain. 
I am not aware of a secure method of verifying node operation. 

Is "proof-of-activity" actively used on any existing blockchain that you are aware of?

I can imagine a system similar to the way that mining pools check that their members are actively mining, by issuing work that is easier than mining a full block, and counting up how many of these "shares" each miner in the pool solves. By having 'shares' on the CLAM network, which are 10 times easier to solve than actually staking a block, and which are worth nothing in terms of direct block reward, we have proof that a particular output is (or at least has been) "trying" to stake and so can give it increased weight. This weight boost could decay over time, requiring a regular stream of shares to be incoming in order to keep the boost in place.

Even if we figured out such a system, I don't think it would help. Just-Dice has a large pool of old, constantly-working outputs and so would probably benefit the most from having 'age' added back into the equation.