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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1148727 times)
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Leon.S.Kenedy
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May 24, 2017, 03:00:55 AM
 #7541

I'm updating Clamcoin.org.

Can anyone think of any websites I'm missing?

Does cryptosprout still use CLAM?

Can you compare the similar and different between CLAMS and BTC ? Is there any advantages of CLAMS? I want to invest in CLAMS, but I dont see any good news can come to increase it's value.
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May 24, 2017, 03:33:23 AM
 #7542

I'm updating Clamcoin.org.

Can anyone think of any websites I'm missing?

Does cryptosprout still use CLAM?

Can you compare the similar and different between CLAMS and BTC ? Is there any advantages of CLAMS? I want to invest in CLAMS, but I dont see any good news can come to increase it's value.

The major difference is in my opinion:

Bitcoin is Proof of Work.  So a third party miner is spinning the network and adding security.

CLAM is Proof of Stake.  So the coins them self are spinning and securing the network

Think of the two like companies:

Bitcoin your voting power is in a third party machine that has nothing to do with the company.

CLAM your voting power is the coin itself and that is the economy as well.

CLAM is scary cause someone with enough money could buy out the voting power and rule the system.  Bitcoin has a bit more security due to the number of computers and such already in the world, but it is still a concern such as ASIC and future tech.

Blending the two together is going to be the bread and butter of these two coins.  It's the crowd that floats around BTC and CLAM that make them interesting.


FreeBitcoins.com is in the process of beginning to combine the two in what I believe is the "proper" way.


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May 24, 2017, 09:05:18 PM
 #7543

segwit ? why not ,its great news for clam

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May 25, 2017, 08:42:17 AM
Last edit: May 25, 2017, 09:12:10 AM by Leon.S.Kenedy
 #7544


The major difference is in my opinion:

Bitcoin is Proof of Work.  So a third party miner is spinning the network and adding security.

CLAM is Proof of Stake.  So the coins them self are spinning and securing the network

Think of the two like companies:

Bitcoin your voting power is in a third party machine that has nothing to do with the company.

CLAM your voting power is the coin itself and that is the economy as well.

CLAM is scary cause someone with enough money could buy out the voting power and rule the system.  Bitcoin has a bit more security due to the number of computers and such already in the world, but it is still a concern such as ASIC and future tech.

Blending the two together is going to be the bread and butter of these two coins.  It's the crowd that floats around BTC and CLAM that make them interesting.


FreeBitcoins.com is in the process of beginning to combine the two in what I believe is the "proper" way.

So I wrote this, do you agree with me?

In the global economy, cash is increasingly unable to meet the rapidly growing demand for trading. Include USD transactions when you have to complete a series of strict procedures due to foreign exchange policy. Cash can also be tracked, confiscated or taxed. Bitcoin was able to overcome some of those shortcomings, making P2P trading much easier and more free. Global economic change really becomes a flat world. However Bitcoin still has some shortcomings that are lacking in fairness and too slow processing.
Bitcoin's Proof of Work system makes the power more and more focused on the professional miner, the individual miner who can not compete with the larger miner. This goes against the ideals of a decentralized Blockchain system and can lead to a 51% attack. Anyone who has 51% of the digging capacity can manipulate the entire system and deal fraud by offering fake blocks, rejecting valid blocks that other communities dig. Another unfair thing to do is that the transaction is fast or slow depending on the amount of money the trader accepts when transferring Bitcoin to the block. People who are willing to spend more money will be able to trade faster, while less money will have to wait a lot longer. A current average cost of Bitcoin transaction can take from 2 to 4 days to be confirmed.
  The CLAMS coin has overcome that, right from its initial slogan, "The Fairly Crypto Currency." With the Proof of Stake system, just as you prove that you own a stake in that CryptoCurrency you will be able to mine equivalent. If you own 3% of CLAMS, you will have the right to mine 3% of the new fresh CLAMS. The scale of extraction will be linear. Encourage the community to engage in transactions, promote decentralization and more democracy. With this system, a CLAMS transaction takes only about 10 minutes and is fair to everyone even the rich or the poor.
The Proof of Stake system is currently considered the current best system for the BlockChain system. Ethereum (ETH) is also evolving to switch from PoW to PoS and is already 75% progressive, which will be completed by the end of the year.
On the Coinmarketcap website, CLAMS currently has a capitalization of $ 15 million at $ 6.5 per share on May 25, 2017 and is listed on major exchanges such as Poloniex and Bitrex. Especially CLAMS is one of the few coin that Poloniex allows Margin so experienced trader can surf large without too much initial capital investment.


https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/15805116/640/s/CLAMS-vs-BITCOIN.jpg
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May 25, 2017, 02:46:59 PM
 #7545

is  there still possible to clam my CLAMs use my old address ?  i have some address dogecoin , loneg time ago not use and still have balance.
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May 26, 2017, 02:55:39 AM
 #7546

is  there still possible to clam my CLAMs use my old address ?  i have some address dogecoin , loneg time ago not use and still have balance.

 Yes you are still able the to claim (we call it dig) your clams from old address, if you have access to your private keys belonging to those address and they were funded when the distribution was made, you can claim it can enjoy your clam for whatever you wish to.

You can use a Clam wallet, like the clam client (a local wallet) to check if your addresses got funded, you will get around 4.60 clam per each diggable address, also you can use services like Just-dice to do check if your address, in the chat there is a function to dig with a command that is /dig (address) that is for checking if it's funded, you can find more info about how to dig in the FAQ if you want to do the claim via Just-Dice. Also you can use other methods like BayAreaCoins site in case you want you clams in btc for a fee they can do that for you I think.  Cheesy

if you need something leave me a message.
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May 26, 2017, 08:14:05 PM
Last edit: May 26, 2017, 08:25:14 PM by BayAreaCoins
 #7547

is  there still possible to clam my CLAMs use my old address ?  i have some address dogecoin , loneg time ago not use and still have balance.

You can download and sync the Clamcoin wallet if you want to mess with altcoins wallets.

You can dig at Just-dice for free if you don't want to mess with a wallet and don't mind digging one at a time (don't forget your hidden change addresses!)

You can dig at FreeBitcoins.com if you don't want to mess with altcoins and want to get paid with Bitcoin right away.  We allow single wallet digs as well as a drag and drop feature to dig your whole DOGE wallet in one click.  (easiest)

Good luck and welcome to the CLAMunity Tongue!


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May 26, 2017, 09:57:29 PM
 #7548

is  there still possible to clam my CLAMs use my old address ?  i have some address dogecoin , loneg time ago not use and still have balance.

You can download and sync the Clamcoin wallet if you want to mess with altcoins wallets.

You can dig at Just-dice for free if you don't want to mess with a wallet and don't mind digging one at a time (don't forget your hidden change addresses!)

You can dig at FreeBitcoins.com if you don't want to mess with altcoins and want to get paid with Bitcoin right away.  We allow single wallet digs as well as a drag and drop feature to dig your whole DOGE wallet in one click.  (easiest)

Good luck and welcome to the CLAMunity Tongue!

can i haz FREE CLAMS? Smiley weeeeeeeee
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May 26, 2017, 11:21:49 PM
 #7549

is  there still possible to clam my CLAMs use my old address ?  i have some address dogecoin , loneg time ago not use and still have balance.

You can download and sync the Clamcoin wallet if you want to mess with altcoins wallets.

You can dig at Just-dice for free if you don't want to mess with a wallet and don't mind digging one at a time (don't forget your hidden change addresses!)

You can dig at FreeBitcoins.com if you don't want to mess with altcoins and want to get paid with Bitcoin right away.  We allow single wallet digs as well as a drag and drop feature to dig your whole DOGE wallet in one click.  (easiest)

Good luck and welcome to the CLAMunity Tongue!

can i haz FREE CLAMS? Smiley weeeeeeeee

If you have BTC, LTC or DOGE keys from 2014 you sure can!

You can earn a little over .1 CLAM each address you help FreeBitcoins.com dig and earn 100% of CLAM faucet use from your affiliates.


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May 27, 2017, 08:02:52 AM
 #7550

With so many replies I might have missed the answer to the following:

Is it possible to claim clams by signing a message with your privkey?

Giving the privkey to some website, or some other software (even if it might be legit) is not a valid option.
I'm aware that you can first empty the BTC address to a new one, but that's not an option in some cases (like, giving up my sig address).
If signed proof isn't possible/planned, then I'll just ignore my clams to be on the safe side.

Bounty: Earn up to 68.7 BTC
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May 27, 2017, 11:13:04 AM
 #7551

With so many replies I might have missed the answer to the following:

Is it possible to claim clams by signing a message with your privkey?

Giving the privkey to some website, or some other software (even if it might be legit) is not a valid option.
I'm aware that you can first empty the BTC address to a new one, but that's not an option in some cases (like, giving up my sig address).
If signed proof isn't possible/planned, then I'll just ignore my clams to be on the safe side.


 I was looking for an answer for your question and found this and I think is related to the topic, after that quote, I will write my suggested option for your case.

If I understand correctly, to claim CLAMS I only need to provide a signed message from the respective BTC or DOGE address. Is that correct?

Nearly, but not quite. You need to provide a signature, but of a transaction, not a message. This is the same that Bitcoin uses - when you want to spend your Bitcoins your wallet makes a transaction and signs it using your Bitcoin private key.

The point you may be missing is that the private key for your free CLAMs *is* your BTC private key. The private keys are the same, and the addresses only look different because of the 'version byte' (the thing which makes BTC addresses start with a '1' while CLAM addresses start with an 'x').

So the easiest way to sign a transaction using your private key is to import your old BTC/DOGE private keys into a CLAM wallet, let it rescan, and then send a transaction from the CLAM wallet as you would from any other wallet.

If so, could you please tell me the command to use with the server daemon for doing this?

"clamd sendtoaddress <address> <amount>" - or use the QT version and use the send tab.

 Disclaimer: the following steps are supposing that clam client allows to create signed transactions able to be push by other clam client, also this not intended to be a full guide that you should follow, is just few ideas about how you can approach to get your clams.

 My suggestion is that maybe is possible for you to set up a clean OS where you can install the Clamclient and let it fully sync with the clam blockchain, maybe a full sync won't be needed because I think since the undug clams were assigned prior the Clam blockchain started running, those clams must be at the beginning of the Clam blockchain (but at least you will need a few blocks in your clam blockchain), then you can unplug/block/disconnect it from the Internet from your freshly installed OS, import your btc/ltc/doge wallet, check how many Clams you got and them create a transaction and sign it with you Private Keys, you will need to create a receiving address and properly make a backup of it, so you don't send your Clams into oblivion.

 All this done without Internet connection should protect you from the possibility of your Private Keys being sent by the software to the Internet, then with the transaction saved in a file you can find a way to decode the transaction, there you can see if there is something wrong with the code or signature, then you can push the transaction to the clam blockchain and your transaction should be mined and validated, usually you'll have few option with clam to push your transaction, you can make another Clean OS and this time I think you should have to fully sync it, so you can push your transaction or you can ask a friend with a sync clam client to push it for you (coz as far I know there no risk for your Clams to be stole by being push by other person).

 After all that, you need to properly delete your clean OS (the one were you put you btc/ltc/doge wallet) so you don't let any possibility of your Private Keys being compromised, Probably occupy the Entire disk with new data and proper format should do it.

if you need something leave me a message.
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May 27, 2017, 03:20:34 PM
 #7552

I think there is a simpler solution.

1) Move all BTC off the addresses that had BTC on the distribution day to new addresses on your Trezor hardware wallet.
2) Import the private keys of all these addresses into the clam client
3) Get the clams [!]
4) Discard the Bitcoin private keys used to get clams and never use them again.

That way you do not have to be as careful as is described above.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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May 27, 2017, 03:39:14 PM
 #7553

My suggestion is that maybe is possible for you to set up a clean OS where you can install the Clamclient and let it fully sync with the clam blockchain, maybe a full sync won't be needed because I think since the undug clams were assigned prior the Clam blockchain started running, those clams must be at the beginning of the Clam blockchain (but at least you will need a few blocks in your clam blockchain), then you can unplug/block/disconnect it from the Internet from your freshly installed OS, import your btc/ltc/doge wallet, check how many Clams you got and them create a transaction and sign it with you Private Keys, you will need to create a receiving address and properly make a backup of it, so you don't send your Clams into oblivion.

 All this done without Internet connection should protect you from the possibility of your Private Keys being sent by the software to the Internet, then with the transaction saved in a file you can find a way to decode the transaction, there you can see if there is something wrong with the code or signature, then you can push the transaction to the clam blockchain and your transaction should be mined and validated, usually you'll have few option with clam to push your transaction, you can make another Clean OS and this time I think you should have to fully sync it, so you can push your transaction or you can ask a friend with a sync clam client to push it for you (coz as far I know there no risk for your Clams to be stole by being push by other person).

 After all that, you need to properly delete your clean OS (the one were you put you btc/ltc/doge wallet) so you don't let any possibility of your Private Keys being compromised, Probably occupy the Entire disk with new data and proper format should do it.
Thanks for the thought you put into it, but it would still mean that I give eg clamd access to my keys (in a truly paranoid way I could argue that they might be added into the transaction as eg comments). Ideally, Clam would allow me to export an unsigned transaction which I can sign for example with Electrum or signrawtransaction, save and re-import in Clam to broadcast. I'm looking for a method where I don't need to give Clam any access to any private key.

I think there is a simpler solution.

1) Move all BTC off the addresses that had BTC on the distribution day to new addresses on your Trezor hardware wallet.
2) Import the private keys of all these addresses into the clam client
3) Get the clams [!]
4) Discard the Bitcoin private keys used to get clams and never use them again.

That way you do not have to be as careful as is described above.
I'm aware that you can first empty the BTC address to a new one, but that's not an option in some cases (like, giving up my sig address).
Not to mention that it would also imply to change all addresses in use for payouts with other services. To get some clams, I'd have to update each and every account where I have a btc address configured. That's not a solution.


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May 27, 2017, 09:17:39 PM
 #7554


Thanks for the thought you put into it, but it would still mean that I give eg clamd access to my keys (in a truly paranoid way I could argue that they might be added into the transaction as eg comments). Ideally, Clam would allow me to export an unsigned transaction which I can sign for example with Electrum or signrawtransaction, save and re-import in Clam to broadcast. I'm looking for a method where I don't need to give Clam any access to any private key.


 I understand your point in this, but like I quoted before the key point in this is

If I understand correctly, to claim CLAMS I only need to provide a signed message from the respective BTC or DOGE address. Is that correct?

Nearly, but not quite. You need to provide a signature, but of a transaction, not a message. This is the same that Bitcoin uses - when you want to spend your Bitcoins your wallet makes a transaction and signs it using your Bitcoin private key.

The point you may be missing is that the private key for your free CLAMs *is* your BTC private key. The private keys are the same, and the addresses only look different because of the 'version byte' (the thing which makes BTC addresses start with a '1' while CLAM addresses start with an 'x').


 I don't know if  you're familiar with how the "version byte" can change the first letter of a given altcoin, it's mostly shown in things like vanitygen for altcoins address generation.

 In theory i guess that if it is the same Private Key as for example your BTC address, but the 'version byte' is the only thing that is different, the process to generate a signature for a transaction must be the same, the only change should be the 'version byte' that way if you have programming knowledge you could in theory  be able to modify or create a program to make it able to sign your Clam transaction and that way you know that the signature generated doesn't contain any external data that could help "someone" to guess or obtain your Private Key, that in theory will allow you to sign your clam unsigned transaction with for example a modded 'version byte' sign transaction command added to your Electrum btc wallet.

 But you may noticed that I mentioned a lot the in "Theory" here, this is because Clam doesn't have a typical 'version byte' at least for the case of vanitygen, the way that is used for that program for obtain the 'version byte' of a give altcoin for example Dogecoin is not the same as for Clam, even Dooglus needed to do make a custom version of vanitygen just to generate the addresses correctly, I don't know if it that is a minor tweak to the code make it work properly, but at least you need to know that changing the 'version byte' may not be enough to modify or create your own clam transaction signature generator.

 Getting back in reality, maybe you won't be able to claim your Clams because the coin was designed, to claim ownership of your Clams with signed transaction, I doubt that a signed message will do it. Of course only a programmer that know about how the signing process goes can tell what is right or wrong in all my blah blah blah.

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May 28, 2017, 01:48:50 AM
 #7555

Is it possible to claim clams by signing a message with your privkey?

Yes, but the message has to be in a particular format. It has to be in the same format as a regular transaction. For the inputs, list the CLAM utxo's you're spending. For the outputs, list the address and amount you are claiming. Then sign the whole thing using your Bitcoin private key.

There is a reference implementation that can do this for you in the CLAM github - it's part of the CLAM wallet - but you are free to rewrite it if you like.

Giving the privkey to some website, or some other software (even if it might be legit) is not a valid option.

How are you going to sign a message if you're not willing to use a website or some software?

I'm aware that you can first empty the BTC address to a new one, but that's not an option in some cases (like, giving up my sig address).

Maybe this is the part you're not understanding. What do you mean about "giving up my sig address"? Do you think that when you sign a message with an address you aren't making the address known? Because you are. Every time you publish a signature you are publishing the public key along with it.

If signed proof isn't possible/planned, then I'll just ignore my clams to be on the safe side.

Signed proof is how every transaction works in every crypto. If you're looking for a way of signing a message without revealing the address used to do the signing I don't think you're going to find it. If you don't want to trust the free open source code provided by the CLAM project and used by thousands for years without claims of a single theft resulting from its use, you are free to audit the code or even rewrite it from scratch. And of course you're free to never claim your free CLAMs too.

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May 28, 2017, 05:59:09 AM
 #7556

4) Discard the Bitcoin private keys used to get clams and never use them again.

Do not discard Bitcoin private keys.

Sigh... why delete a wallet instead of moving it aside and keeping the old copy just in case?  You should never delete a wallet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1327.msg15136#msg15136

Is it possible to claim clams by signing a message with your privkey?

Yes, but the message has to be in a particular format. It has to be in the same format as a regular transaction. For the inputs, list the CLAM utxo's you're spending. For the outputs, list the address and amount you are claiming. Then sign the whole thing using your Bitcoin private key.

There is a reference implementation that can do this for you in the CLAM github - it's part of the CLAM wallet - but you are free to rewrite it if you like.

I'm hoping that we can add a Clamcoin mining pool on FreeBitcoins that will allow people to join our pool by this method as well.  We have a lot of people who want to claim their free bitcoins, but aren't a fan of coughing up a private key.  This should hopefully lead to helping CLAM decentralize.

We still have to allow user balances and a few other things before that, but it is in the works and I think a good way to get "free bitcoins" long term.

(like, giving up my sig address).

I'm sure you already know this, but your address is already public on the Blockchain... just no name.

Same same but different... BUT still same same.



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May 28, 2017, 07:31:34 AM
 #7557

How are you going to sign a message if you're not willing to use a website or some software?
Well, okay, I give it to a software, namely one on the airgapped system.

Maybe this is the part you're not understanding. What do you mean about "giving up my sig address"? Do you think that when you sign a message with an address you aren't making the address known? Because you are. Every time you publish a signature you are publishing the public key along with it.
I was referring to the vanity address in my signature. If I'd use some website which claims clams by using my private key, that address would essentially be dead. And I want to actually keep it because it's well published.

Signed proof is how every transaction works in every crypto. If you're looking for a way of signing a message without revealing the address used to do the signing I don't think you're going to find it.
With Electrum, you can have two wallets, one with the private keys on an airgapped machine, and one with watch-only addresses on a connected one that does not contain any private key.
You can create a raw transaction which you can transfer to your secure machine, sign it there, copy the signed transaction back and broadcast it. That way, the private key was never exposed to the potentially insecure machine.
You can even copy that signed tx to a pushtx website, like at blockchain.info.

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May 28, 2017, 08:50:52 AM
 #7558

With Electrum, you can have two wallets, one with the private keys on an airgapped machine, and one with watch-only addresses on a connected one that does not contain any private key.
You can create a raw transaction which you can transfer to your secure machine, sign it there, copy the signed transaction back and broadcast it. That way, the private key was never exposed to the potentially insecure machine.

You can do the same with the CLAM client. Create the raw transaction on an online machine and sign it on an airgapped offline machine:

$ clamd help createrawtransaction | head -1
createrawtransaction [{"txid":txid,"vout":n},...] {address:amount,...} [tx-comment]

$ clamd help signrawtransaction | head -1
signrawtransaction <hex string> [{"txid":txid,"vout":n,"scriptPubKey":hex,"redeemScript":hex},...] [<privatekey1>,...] [sighashtype="ALL"]

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May 28, 2017, 11:33:09 AM
 #7559

With Electrum, you can have two wallets, one with the private keys on an airgapped machine, and one with watch-only addresses on a connected one that does not contain any private key.
You can create a raw transaction which you can transfer to your secure machine, sign it there, copy the signed transaction back and broadcast it. That way, the private key was never exposed to the potentially insecure machine.

You can do the same with the CLAM client. Create the raw transaction on an online machine and sign it on an airgapped offline machine:

$ clamd help createrawtransaction | head -1
createrawtransaction [{"txid":txid,"vout":n},...] {address:amount,...} [tx-comment]

$ clamd help signrawtransaction | head -1
signrawtransaction <hex string> [{"txid":txid,"vout":n,"scriptPubKey":hex,"redeemScript":hex},...] [<privatekey1>,...] [sighashtype="ALL"]


 I suggested that to him, but he said that he doesn't want "clamd" to access his Private Keys


Thanks for the thought you put into it, but it would still mean that I give eg clamd access to my keys (in a truly paranoid way I could argue that they might be added into the transaction as eg comments). Ideally, Clam would allow me to export an unsigned transaction which I can sign for example with Electrum or signrawtransaction, save and re-import in Clam to broadcast. I'm looking for a method where I don't need to give Clam any access to any private key.


 At least the way that I see it, he wants to sign a the clam transaction that will allow him to dig his Clams, but he doesn't want to do it with Clamclient because he is worry about the possibility that the software will add to the signature some "theorical" trace of his Private Key encoded in the way of comments or a 'hidden message' so he told that even an airgapped offline Clamclient is not trusted for him.

 As far I can see he trust Electrum to do signing for unsigned transaction or raw transactions on an offline airgapped environment but even if he creates a raw transaction with a Clamclient, he's won't be able to sign that transaction with his Bitcoin client that he use to sign Bitcoin transactions and he feel will not add anything "extra" to the transaction, because like was pointed before many altcoins including Clam use a different 'version byte' than Bitcoin. Some type of modification to the source code should be needed to allow for example his Electrum wallet to sign the Clam raw transaction and that open the question 'would you trust your bitcoin client after been modified?' because if you don't make the changes to the code by yourself knowing what the new added feature does, you end up in the same situation as trusting the Clamclient just that is even worse because if the new feature is not public available as open source other peers won't be able to review and warn you about something suspicious in the code.

 I think the best way to solve a case like this will be (if it's possible) to explain in a easy way the differences between how does the Bitcoin Client and Clam Client creates the signature for a transaction, that way maybe, someone could see well that the process is almost equal to how Bitcoin do it and the parts were is not equal is because of for example 'version byte' and how that doesn't compromised or add anything extra. Of course that will require the ability to read the code and understand how it works, because it probably won't be something too easy to be explain.

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May 28, 2017, 05:00:30 PM
 #7560

Can I use the "setstaketo" command to let my Raspberry Pi do the staking while keeping my precious Clams secure?
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