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[ranlo]

Also note that the Stake field will NOT increment permanently. It will only show a value when it is in the process of staking (so 50 blocks, for maturity) and then will drop again. So that field isn't a good way to see if you're staking. In your transaction fields, you'll see stake rewards as transactions (if you've staked).

Thanks, excellent advice! I wasn't sure if rewards would show up as transactions or not 

Ranlo and several people on here are really awesome helpers. Glad to see you on the forum.

Thanks, and I try. I'm a member of a lot of crypto projects so I help where I can. =)

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[BigDaddy0790]

Forgot to add another thing... are all your coins in ONE input or multiple? To help illustrate the difference...

Let's say there are 200 coins total and you have 100. Your stake weight is 50%.
If you have all 100 coins in one input, you have a 50/50 chance on the next block (assuming all 200 coins were the same age)
If you have 50 and 50 inputs, now you have a 25% on each input, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance
If you have 10/10/.. inputs, now each input has a 5% chance, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance

All of these bring the same value over time, but smaller inputs = more variation. I try to keep all my coins in one input.

Well, if I understood your question correctly - all of my coins so far came in a single transaction, so yes.

I just got 2 coins added to the wallet during the night as "PoS mined", so it works! 

Speaking of inputs, though. If I want to add some more to the wallet, what's the best way of doing so? Just send them all at once and let them combine with the ones I already have?

[clovis A.]

Also note that the Stake field will NOT increment permanently. It will only show a value when it is in the process of staking (so 50 blocks, for maturity) and then will drop again. So that field isn't a good way to see if you're staking. In your transaction fields, you'll see stake rewards as transactions (if you've staked).

Thanks, excellent advice! I wasn't sure if rewards would show up as transactions or not  

Forgot to add another thing... are all your coins in ONE input or multiple? To help illustrate the difference...

Let's say there are 200 coins total and you have 100. Your stake weight is 50%.
If you have all 100 coins in one input, you have a 50/50 chance on the next block (assuming all 200 coins were the same age)
If you have 50 and 50 inputs, now you have a 25% on each input, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance
If you have 10/10/.. inputs, now each input has a 5% chance, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance

All of these bring the same value over time, but smaller inputs = more variation. I try to keep all my coins in one input.

I echo JT here, Mr. @Ranlo..... thanks for the education!!  This post ^^^ was particularly helpful for someone like myself who's still attempting to grasp the in's and out's of PoS.

I would like to know if you've been able to prove even the slightest earnings advantage by sticking to a single output? Have you collected enough data (over an extended period of time) to see any advantage at all to this tactic? I know it's all supposed to even out in the end, but stakers who go with the single output seem to really swear by it, which makes me curious.

Thanks in advance for your answer!!

[ranlo]

Forgot to add another thing... are all your coins in ONE input or multiple? To help illustrate the difference...

Let's say there are 200 coins total and you have 100. Your stake weight is 50%.
If you have all 100 coins in one input, you have a 50/50 chance on the next block (assuming all 200 coins were the same age)
If you have 50 and 50 inputs, now you have a 25% on each input, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance
If you have 10/10/.. inputs, now each input has a 5% chance, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance

All of these bring the same value over time, but smaller inputs = more variation. I try to keep all my coins in one input.

Well, if I understood your question correctly - all of my coins so far came in a single transaction, so yes.

I just got 2 coins added to the wallet during the night as "PoS mined", so it works! 

Speaking of inputs, though. If I want to add some more to the wallet, what's the best way of doing so? Just send them all at once and let them combine with the ones I already have?

What I do is:

1) Send new coins to address (which doesn't matter, due to step 3)
2) Allow coins currently in wallet to stake (I keep my wallet offline for 2-4 weeks at a time, so it's fairly quick)
3) Open coin control and send ALL coins (old, new, and staked) to a single input

This makes it to where I always have one large input.

[ranlo]

Also note that the Stake field will NOT increment permanently. It will only show a value when it is in the process of staking (so 50 blocks, for maturity) and then will drop again. So that field isn't a good way to see if you're staking. In your transaction fields, you'll see stake rewards as transactions (if you've staked).

Thanks, excellent advice! I wasn't sure if rewards would show up as transactions or not  

Forgot to add another thing... are all your coins in ONE input or multiple? To help illustrate the difference...

Let's say there are 200 coins total and you have 100. Your stake weight is 50%.
If you have all 100 coins in one input, you have a 50/50 chance on the next block (assuming all 200 coins were the same age)
If you have 50 and 50 inputs, now you have a 25% on each input, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance
If you have 10/10/.. inputs, now each input has a 5% chance, while the guy with 100 has a 50% chance

All of these bring the same value over time, but smaller inputs = more variation. I try to keep all my coins in one input.

I echo JT here, Mr. @Ranlo..... thanks for the education!!  This post ^^^ was particularly helpful for someone like myself who's still attempting to grasp the in's and out's of PoS.

I would like to know if you've been able to prove even the slightest earnings advantage by sticking to a single output? Have you collected enough data (over an extended period of time) to see any advantage at all to this tactic? I know it's all supposed to even out in the end, but stakers who go with the single output seem to really swear by it, which makes me curious.

Thanks in advance for your answer!!

This is a tricky thing to answer. Technically, is there an earnings advantage? Yes. And that's based on mathematics. So here we go:

If you have a lot of 1 coin inputs, it's going to take forever for them to stake. Even 20 coin inputs that are a month old can take days. What this means is that you are almost always waiting for some coins to stake.

With one big input, you can usually stake within minutes. What this means is that you spend less time waiting (wasted, if you plan to shut down your client). Instead of leaving the client open for a week, you can open it, let your coins stake, close it. The other method would almost always result in some coins not being staked by the time you're ready to close the client. This would (at least in my case, since I run it every 2-4 weeks) make coins hit that 30d threshold, where they no longer earn interest. i.e., if an input would result in 100 coins given on a 30d stake, it would give the same 100 after 50d, 30000d, etc. In essence, by not ensuring every coin was staked, you are losing money.

There's also more to say about the interest itself... which is that it's compounded. It won't make a HUGE difference, but let's roll with a 12% interest rate per year (or 1% per month) just for ease.

Scenario 1: Staking once per month

Month 1   1000
Month 2   1010
...
Month 11   1104.622125
Month 12   1115.668347

Now let's say you staked every single day:

Day 1    1000
Day 2    1000.333333
...
Day 30   1009.711913
Day 31   1010.048484


Note that this counts on staking exactly every 24h, and excludes downtime from the stake itself (35m or so for stakes to mature). But what you'll see is that:

Staking once per month would result in 1010 coins at the beginning of month 2
Staking once a day would result in 1010.048484 coins at the beginning of month 2

The difference is negligible, and it's even smaller at 5% (would be a difference of around 0.02 HYPER per 1000 coins) but requires a lot more work.

[clovis A.]

Thanks for the informative answer @Ranlo!! I'll remember to bring any staking questions straight to you in the future

peace,
clovis

[Macno]

So just to be sure...I don`t actually need to keep my computer and the wallet running all the time to earn HYPER? That`s what I`m currently doing...
By the way...any news on the web wallet?
Thx!

[clovis A.]

So just to be sure...I don`t actually need to keep my computer and the wallet running all the time to earn HYPER? That`s what I`m currently doing...
By the way...any news on the web wallet?
Thx!

Correct, but to get the full benefit of doing it that way, you must keep your coins in a single output, as Ranlo was saying.

@Ranlo, what's the simplest way to get all coins in a single output.  My "coin control" experience is somewhat lacking

[ranlo]

So just to be sure...I don`t actually need to keep my computer and the wallet running all the time to earn HYPER? That`s what I`m currently doing...
By the way...any news on the web wallet?
Thx!

Correct, but to get the full benefit of doing it that way, you must keep your coins in a single output, as Ranlo was saying.

@Ranlo, what's the simplest way to get all coins in a single output.  My "coin control" experience is somewhat lacking

Do you know how to get into Coin Control? If so, the process is simple:

1) Open up CC window
2) See how many inputs you currently have, which will be shown in parentheses I believe, like (19)
3) If that number is below 70, just click the box at the top of all the inputs to select all. At the top of the window, you'll now see how many coins you have total, the fee to send them, and the after-fee balance. Copy that balance and create a new "send" with the after-fee balance as the amount, and your address as the send-to address (any address you own is fine -- even if it's the one the coins are coming from)

That will instantly merge all coins into one input (which if you look at the coin control window, you'll see a (1) now). In transactions, you'll see the fee itself (so like my last one says "Transaction Self -0.01 HYPER"

[clovis A.]

So just to be sure...I don`t actually need to keep my computer and the wallet running all the time to earn HYPER? That`s what I`m currently doing...
By the way...any news on the web wallet?
Thx!

Correct, but to get the full benefit of doing it that way, you must keep your coins in a single output, as Ranlo was saying.

@Ranlo, what's the simplest way to get all coins in a single output.  My "coin control" experience is somewhat lacking

Do you know how to get into Coin Control? If so, the process is simple:

1) Open up CC window
2) See how many inputs you currently have, which will be shown in parentheses I believe, like (19)
3) If that number is below 70, just click the box at the top of all the inputs to select all. At the top of the window, you'll now see how many coins you have total, the fee to send them, and the after-fee balance. Copy that balance and create a new "send" with the after-fee balance as the amount, and your address as the send-to address (any address you own is fine -- even if it's the one the coins are coming from)

That will instantly merge all coins into one input (which if you look at the coin control window, you'll see a (1) now). In transactions, you'll see the fee itself (so like my last one says "Transaction Self -0.01 HYPER"

Excellent!! That's way easier than I thought it would be. I will start using the single output method and see what happens....

You have provided some invaluable staking information and analysis on this thread recently; I really appreciate your time and effort ranlo!!

clovis


EDIT: Forgot to ask.... what if there's more than 70 inputs??  

[TheEGN]

Instead of waiting for the hyper multipool to auto convert to HYPER, is it easier (although more time consuming) Just to send to the bittrex wallets and then convert from there?

Absolutely clueless on how it works.

Help?

[meowball]

Instead of waiting for the hyper multipool to auto convert to HYPER, is it easier (although more time consuming) Just to send to the bittrex wallets and then convert from there?

Absolutely clueless on how it works.

Help?

Yeah, you can do that if you want. I am guessing the multipool using an exchange like bittrex behind the scenes to convert your mined coins into HYPER. I'm not sure if doing the exchange manually is "easier (although more time consuming)". After all, you are proposing the manual exchange method to speed up the conversion in the first place. I would describe it as opposite. It's probably not as easy but less time consuming than waiting for the multipool to auto-convert. I haven't used the multipool, but it seems from what you are saying that the multipool takes a long time to convert your mined coins to HYPER.

Anyway, yes, you have the option to manually convert your coins into HYPER. I think it also gives you a little more power and flexibility to choose when and how much to convert to get the best bang from the market.

[ranlo]

So just to be sure...I don`t actually need to keep my computer and the wallet running all the time to earn HYPER? That`s what I`m currently doing...
By the way...any news on the web wallet?
Thx!

Correct, but to get the full benefit of doing it that way, you must keep your coins in a single output, as Ranlo was saying.

@Ranlo, what's the simplest way to get all coins in a single output.  My "coin control" experience is somewhat lacking

Do you know how to get into Coin Control? If so, the process is simple:

1) Open up CC window
2) See how many inputs you currently have, which will be shown in parentheses I believe, like (19)
3) If that number is below 70, just click the box at the top of all the inputs to select all. At the top of the window, you'll now see how many coins you have total, the fee to send them, and the after-fee balance. Copy that balance and create a new "send" with the after-fee balance as the amount, and your address as the send-to address (any address you own is fine -- even if it's the one the coins are coming from)

That will instantly merge all coins into one input (which if you look at the coin control window, you'll see a (1) now). In transactions, you'll see the fee itself (so like my last one says "Transaction Self -0.01 HYPER"

Excellent!! That's way easier than I thought it would be. I will start using the single output method and see what happens....

You have provided some invaluable staking information and analysis on this thread recently; I really appreciate your time and effort ranlo!!

clovis


EDIT: Forgot to ask.... what if there's more than 70 inputs?? 

If there's more than 70, just go through and select a large group (when I did it, it was like 40-50 at a time. Basically spam clicked down the list) and follow the same process. That'll drop your inputs by (inputsmerged-1). So if you had 130 inputs and you just sent 50 in a transaction, you'll see that you now have (130-50+1=81). And just keep doing that until you're down to one.

The reason for doing it in batches like this is that you need to stay below a threshold. Most coins are of a 10kb maximum size, I believe, and I'm not sure if HYPER stands to that. In any case, my understanding is that's around 80 inputs and an output. I just find it easier to just do batches of 40-50 just because it helps keep things flowing nicely and the fee is really negligible.

[Bananana]

Can someone update me on Hyperzanda?

[HYPERfuture]

Hey Everyone!

As promised I am now back! I will be responding to all PM's over the next 24 hours (I have a lot!).

Here is what's coming this week:

- I'm setting up a new ad campaign for HYPER today
- 2 big PR campaigns will be starting (one of them tomorrow)
- I will be replying to all the awesome people who have PM'd me while I was away
- Someone will be hired to manage the HYPER twitter account so that it is always active
- The final form and goals of the HYPER federation will be finalized over the coming week
- HYPER Whitepaper will be finished within 1 week
- General big HYPER news updates will now be posted by me regularly again, just like the good old days.
- I will be starting more HYPER twitter competitions again too so keep an eye out for that as a way to win some HYPER and help spread the word
- People have contacted me regarding setting up even more HYPER game servers too. So expect more big announcements soon.
- HYPER is also going to be involved in the cryptocurrency crowdfunding site EMC2 and other coins are working on. It is going to be a big deal for all coins involved!
- Exciting times ahead!

As always check the wiki for everything HYPER including all the current game servers and how to win HYPER playing (http://hypercrypto.com/wiki), as well as the website http://hypercrypto.com. There is also a nice list of HYPER games and servers at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.msg10024244#msg10024244

For anyone that missed it HYPER is also sponsoring the indie game TrollSong: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.msg10338455#msg10338455

Game on everyone! To everyone who has sent me a PM you can expect a response within 24 hours.

[kernik]

EDIT: Forgot to ask.... what if there's more than 70 inputs??  

you might experience trouble sending all your coins at once &| clog your wallet with dust stakes.


fun fact: it took 2 days and 6 hours to receive a stake. wallet was online all the time

[clovis A.]

EDIT: Forgot to ask.... what if there's more than 70 inputs??  

you might experience trouble sending all your coins at once &| clog your wallet with dust stakes.


fun fact: it took 2 days and 6 hours to receive a stake. wallet was online all the time

Haha, yeah, I experienced a similar scenario kernik. I think the amount of coins in a single output definitely matters. I am actively experimenting, now that I have a better understanding of staking from ranlo.

I will separate my larger PoS wallets into multiple addresses, each with single outputs as not to clog things up, like you mentioned kernik. Let's see what happens.....

clovis

[kernik]

Haha, yeah, I experienced a similar scenario kernik. I think the amount of coins in a single output definitely matters. I am actively experimenting, now that I have a better understanding of staking from ranlo.

I will separate my larger PoS wallets into multiple addresses, each with single outputs as not to clog things up, like you mentioned kernik. Let's see what happens.....

clovis

that's the way to clog everything really fast every input splits in about half everytime it stakes. The recommended way is to have everything in one address in ~200 size chunks

[TheEGN]

Instead of waiting for the hyper multipool to auto convert to HYPER, is it easier (although more time consuming) Just to send to the bittrex wallets and then convert from there?

Absolutely clueless on how it works.

Help?

Yeah, you can do that if you want. I am guessing the multipool using an exchange like bittrex behind the scenes to convert your mined coins into HYPER. I'm not sure if doing the exchange manually is "easier (although more time consuming)". After all, you are proposing the manual exchange method to speed up the conversion in the first place. I would describe it as opposite. It's probably not as easy but less time consuming than waiting for the multipool to auto-convert. I haven't used the multipool, but it seems from what you are saying that the multipool takes a long time to convert your mined coins to HYPER.

Anyway, yes, you have the option to manually convert your coins into HYPER. I think it also gives you a little more power and flexibility to choose when and how much to convert to get the best bang from the market.

I reckon it just takes a while to find enough coins to convert to HYPER.

[meowball]

Instead of waiting for the hyper multipool to auto convert to HYPER, is it easier (although more time consuming) Just to send to the bittrex wallets and then convert from there?

Absolutely clueless on how it works.

Help?

Yeah, you can do that if you want. I am guessing the multipool using an exchange like bittrex behind the scenes to convert your mined coins into HYPER. I'm not sure if doing the exchange manually is "easier (although more time consuming)". After all, you are proposing the manual exchange method to speed up the conversion in the first place. I would describe it as opposite. It's probably not as easy but less time consuming than waiting for the multipool to auto-convert. I haven't used the multipool, but it seems from what you are saying that the multipool takes a long time to convert your mined coins to HYPER.

Anyway, yes, you have the option to manually convert your coins into HYPER. I think it also gives you a little more power and flexibility to choose when and how much to convert to get the best bang from the market.

I reckon it just takes a while to find enough coins to convert to HYPER.

Yeah, that makes sense. I forgot that pools set a limit.