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atcsecure
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September 24, 2014, 01:20:58 PM |
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Let me see if i understand this correctly, there will be some day in the future that every XC holder can get (not buy) shares in XC inc.
In the period before everybody has a choice to buy XC inc shares directly or by buying XC before that moment & receive them for free
What i want to know is whats happens after that day? Am i free to spend/trade that 10 XC but can i keep my XC inc share?
If so, isn't there a big risk many outsiders will choice option b, drive the price up, only to dump a day later?
My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's. Dan Thats makes a lot of sense & will prevent all kinds of possible problems. But how you can keep XC inc completely seperate from XCurrency (in a legal sense) & at the same time use some tech to realise that link will probably require a 3th party. Collaberation with other coins/contract suppliers makes more sense now, thanks Very good point with valid concerns, which is why nothing is etched in stone at this point and everything is open for discussion. I'd like to get as much feedback as possible on this issue in the forum or please contact me via XChat or email. Dan |
Join the revolution - XC - Decentralized Trustless Multi-Node Private Transactions
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KimmyF
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September 24, 2014, 01:23:10 PM |
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Let me see if i understand this correctly, there will be some day in the future that every XC holder can get (not buy) shares in XC inc.
In the period before everybody has a choice to buy XC inc shares directly or by buying XC before that moment & receive them for free
What i want to know is whats happens after that day? Am i free to spend/trade that 10 XC but can i keep my XC inc share?
If so, isn't there a big risk many outsiders will choice option b, drive the price up, only to dump a day later?
My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's. Dan Thats makes a lot of sense & will prevent all kinds of possible problems. But how you can keep XC inc completely seperate from XCurrency (in a legal sense) & at the same time use some tech to realise that link will probably require a 3th party. Collaberation with other coins/contract suppliers makes more sense now, thanks Very good point with valid concerns, which is why nothing is etched in stone at this point and everything is open for discussion. I'd like to get as much feedback as possible on this issue in the forum or please contact me via XChat or email. Dan How about the 'second thought', no link at all. As i understand it now, XCurrency will remain open source but all the knowledge (eg: the people that build it) will form some sort of ICT Crypto Company, specialising on tech based on (or around) XCurrency. At the same time those XC inc shares mean something, a vote, some gain in the future or whatever from that company. There will be moments in time people need to prove they got those shares. Why not forget the link, whenever this situation arises use the same procedure you are thinking about for the end of the current planned ICO/ITO (still not sure) Whoever has the coins at that time get the benevits from that isolated tech company. At the same time you can combine that with a completely seperate ICO, so people can get a share of a startup tech company & you get the funds needed. |
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Racer8
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September 24, 2014, 01:31:33 PM |
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My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's.
Dan
What do mean lose your shares - where do they go? This creates a very tight linkage between a share and a unit of currency - doesn't make sense. You will take XC out of circulation. Anyway you could always sell your shares, trade your XC then buy back the shares. Try to not to make this complicated - just give away shares to based on a future announced checkpoint on the XC blockchain. |
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 01:40:15 PM |
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My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's.
Dan
What do mean lose your shares - where do they go? This creates a very tight linkage between a share and a unit of currency - doesn't make sense. You will take XC out of circulation. Anyway you could always sell your shares, trade your XC then buy back the shares. Try to not to make this complicated - just give away shares to based on a future announced checkpoint on the XC blockchain. It means that Has you will have a double asset link created 10 to 1> 10 xcs for 1 "free" share, basically for each 10 XCs that you will own at the time of the ICO and after you will be gifted another asset that will have a value on its own there will be no exchange between xcs and shares. Hence it makes sense that your Xcs are kept linked to the assets that you are gifted with other wise you will be able to speculate on the rise in price for XC prior to the ICO then you will get your shares for free and get added value on your portfolio for free. so then you can sell your Xcs on top of the speculation value causing the price to dump but you will still have the free gift of the share that will have indipendent value..This seem to me a bit like santa clause gift. It makes sense that if you will sell your 10Xcs you will sell in the mean time the share that you have got for free basically you will gain value for both but then you will not be able to speculate on the share price anymore so you will more lickely keep your XCs and the share and all the community will see both increase in value. When you will want to sell you will sell 10 xc and 1 share at the same time getting the value for both but this will create less speculation. |
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georgeblair
Newbie
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Activity: 46
Merit: 0
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September 24, 2014, 01:41:02 PM |
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My head is spinning  . Are we nixing the whole open source thing? No. XC's code will be completely open source. That's part of the appeal of the currency. In contrast, XC Inc's appeal will stem from its ability to consistently deliver ground-breaking innovations, including lots of apps based on XCurrency. Better still, XC's platform will allow third parties to develop blockchain 2.0 apps of their own, which of course will also run on XCurrency. In terms of third parties developing blockchain 2.0 apps, what programming language(s) will be available to use? I'd like to participate and was wondering on what language(s) I should brush up on.... |
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hoertest
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September 24, 2014, 01:44:27 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 01:48:18 PM
Last edit: September 24, 2014, 02:01:36 PM by cryptico |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you... Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why should you be allowed to sell them without selling your Share too? |
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KimmyF
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September 24, 2014, 01:51:07 PM |
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My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's.
Dan
What do mean lose your shares - where do they go? This creates a very tight linkage between a share and a unit of currency - doesn't make sense. You will take XC out of circulation. Anyway you could always sell your shares, trade your XC then buy back the shares. Try to not to make this complicated - just give away shares to based on a future announced checkpoint on the XC blockchain.Maintaining a link between shares & current XC coins someone has is an administrative nightmare, just forget that link Think wider, all you have to do is replace the word 'shares' with what they stand for at a future moment in time & you got zero problems. XC community happy, there coin gets extra value, not only measured in btc on the current exchanges but also in '<for XC inc to deside>' gains in the future. Outsiders happy, a team that prove themself by creating XC is opening there own company and we can get a share of there future profits. There are a so many thinkable services and products that can be build around the XC tech that there is no doubt in my mind that company will be successful. They just reward at future moment in time in two different ways, send XC to the current addresses with unspend balances at that time (result is a little like a pos reward) or with fiat/btc to whoever bought a share with that currency. Also the future and success of XCurrency will be certain with a funded company behind it that has all incentives needed to maintain XC Market also happy, there is no single moment in time where there is a risk of buy pressure before & sell pressure after. |
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hoertest
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September 24, 2014, 02:01:29 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. |
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 02:04:00 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them straight after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before |
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synechist
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market
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September 24, 2014, 02:05:46 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Hoertest I think you're correct here. XC coins need to be fungible, and the worst thing for fungibility is if some coins become worth more than others. XCurrency also has independent fundamentals from XC Inc. Therefore their tokens should be independent. Both XC and XC Inc. shares need to tradable independently of each other. |
Co-Founder, the Blocknet
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jibble
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September 24, 2014, 02:08:11 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC. Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in worse position than before because you have lost added value. |
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synechist
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market
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September 24, 2014, 02:10:14 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC. Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in worse position than before because you have lost added value. Yes I think you're correct about this. I personally don't see sufficient reason to tie XC to XC Inc. shares. |
Co-Founder, the Blocknet
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 02:12:10 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC. Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in worse position than before because you have lost added value. Yea I meant a "time Lock" as Synechist was suggesting back in the Thread |
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hoertest
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September 24, 2014, 02:13:47 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before yeah thats a different story . but since its limited in time you just push some kind of dump in the future. it would be much better to present reasons at that point in time why selling XC the currency would be stupid beyond the obvious reason of xmixer revenue which the shares don't create. but in order to stay different kind of beasts they can't be linked ever. |
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 02:14:48 PM |
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I would like to know who the fuck is always Dumping on Mintpal Puntually after each news release..
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cryptico
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September 24, 2014, 02:15:32 PM |
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i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me. Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too? you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that. they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito. Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before yeah thats a different story . but since its limited in time you just push some kind of dump in the future. it would be much better to present reasons at that point in time why selling XC the currency would be stupid beyond the obvious reason of xmixer revenue which the shares don't create. but in order to stay different kind of beasts they can't be linked ever. Yea You are right. |
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buy-black
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September 24, 2014, 02:21:48 PM |
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Let me see if i understand this correctly, there will be some day in the future that every XC holder can get (not buy) shares in XC inc.
In the period before everybody has a choice to buy XC inc shares directly or by buying XC before that moment & receive them for free
What i want to know is whats happens after that day? Am i free to spend/trade that 10 XC but can i keep my XC inc share?
If so, isn't there a big risk many outsiders will choice option b, drive the price up, only to dump a day later?
My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's. Dan I like this but also the shares should follow the xc owner. So if you sell XC you are also giving up your shares to the new owner. Therefore it makes XC currency more appealing to buyers. |
BC + XC + DRK
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synechist
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market
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September 24, 2014, 02:23:12 PM |
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Let's sketch a scenario:
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
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Co-Founder, the Blocknet
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hoertest
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September 24, 2014, 02:29:21 PM |
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Let's sketch a scenario:
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future. XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future. If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump. |
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