[XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos

[wooder]

Morning folks

Hmm... Looks like we need to get you all some details about how the premine has been spent and which address(es) you can all keep track of it on. It's pretty important that you're able to do this.

We'll need to wait until Dan's awake since I don't have any access to the premine. But I can tell you a few things:

- I will reveal that some of the premine has been used to pay me. It's a full time job, and I'm happy to be paid in XC.

- Dan is very likely to have paid XC to devs for various things.

- I don't think that Dan has used the premine for his own expenses. I actually think he *should* use it for his expenses, and I hope he has, but I'm not sure he has. He's specifically mentioned that XChat was developed out of his own funds.



Some pure speculation:

- I don't know how much of the premine is left, and how much might exist in BTC or another currency.

- It's possible that Dan diversified XC's funding to mitigate risk and/or to pay devs. Good plan in my opinion.

- It's possible that the premine could be used to generate profits on other coins, and thus replenish the premine.

I don't mind at all for you and the dev team to be paid with the premine. What I do mind is if you do this without stating publicly the amounts the addresses and the time you were/are paid.

This is just complying with the standards that the team itself set up to follow as per pizpie link with the addresses were mentioning that each expense was going to be public.

Let me put this to the community:

Would one or two of you be happy to take responsibility for tracking the premine? This is important because if the XC team had this responsibility, there could be a conflict of interest.

(Cryptico, expenditures are public because they're on a blockchain. We haven't, like, "failed to comply to our own standards." What's happened is simply that everyone seemed to see no need to keep track of the premine from week to week, and now we're playing catch-up. Looks like there's some tidying up to, but it's all there in the blockchain.)

This is a joke isn't it?

On reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/XCofficialreddit/comments/26qqrq/xc_premine_wallet_made_public/  pizpie stated:

   Hello everyone, in our continued belief in complete transparency, here are the wallets that had / have the pre-mine:

    This one is where the funds were during launch:

    XTKDMBqrxABBFu8YUtP8wYQWvYULsVp4oa

    This is the address where the funds are now:

    XS4QLi6VpQQo79HLkoFBj5YZkn6p6TuLKG

   These funds will be used strictly for development, community growth. Any amount spent will be made public knowledge in our continued effort of transparency. If you have any questions, comment below or drop in on our IRC live chat.

    Thank you.

You should have made it public when you use money for something not tell the community afterwards when someone spotted it, that you don't know what for the money was used.

By Pizpie's statement, any *amount* spent will be made public knowledge.

That's what blockchains do. Every transaction is public knowledge.

As for revealing what the amounts were spent on, the commitment Pizpie made is that funds will be used strictly for development and community growth.
- This is an ethical commitment, because, for example, I personally would not like my income to be public. I'd imagine that it would only be under exceptional circumstances that this would be ethically called for. I value my privacy as much as any of you do.
- The most frequent purpose of tracking a premine is to check that the dev doesn't dump it. Clearly Dan hasn't done this. So do we have further concerns?
- If the community would like to extend the tracking to identify every single expense, well, I guess we'd need to consider it, but I wouldn't be put in a comfortable position.

In short, no, it's not a joke.

Now if there's anyone in the community interested in tracking premine expenditures, by all means, let everyone know.

Only 6k are left so there isn't much to track anymore. "Any amount spent will be made public knowledge in our continued effort of transparency. "

Made public doesn't mean to have a blockchain as otherwise this sentence is just a waste of space, i read it more like, the XC team will announce what for the money is used for to be transparent.

You and the other XC members are the only people that can track the coins and tell the community what the money is used for. We can now also see the that money was moved but no one knows where. Even if you state that you don't dumped it we have to believe you and as it seems believing in the XC team statements isn't the best idea at least when i look at the reddit statement and the premine wallet.

So your interpretation of Pizpie was that we'd provide details on the purpose of every single payment from the premine addresses?

Aside from the fact that this isn't what Pizpie committed to, do you think that it would be ethical for us to disclose people's salaries?

(I'm not asking this rhetorically btw. I'm genuinely interested. It's a priority of ours that the community is part of this process.)

You could sum stuff up and say we paid people.

I mean what do you the community expect to do? Track the wallet 24/7 to see when the wallet is used?

It was not my interpretation it was how the sentence was ment. Otherwise it would just be a waste of space. A blockchain already implies that transactions are public.

Somehow XC begins to feel like all the other scam coins

[1715227501]

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[1715227501]

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[the_game1224]

So your interpretation of Pizpie was that we'd provide details on the purpose of every single payment from the premine addresses?

Aside from the fact that this isn't what Pizpie committed to, do you think that it would be ethical for us to disclose people's salaries?

(I'm not asking this rhetorically btw. I'm genuinely interested. It's a priority of ours that the community is part of this process.)

That was not my interpretation.  I certainly wouldn't expect details and specific salaries for dev but a simple post telling us the team has been paid using it or it has been converted to BTC/FIAT for "insert purpose here" was the expectation set based on that post.  

[reebokasss]

its a bit joke but look at bittrex buy orders, only 15 BTC dump and we will be at 1 satoshi nice buy support

[mav137]

This being the XC thread, and XC being the new standard of transparency in crypto (started with Dan's linkedin profile) it would be great if the team would set the bar for the crypto landscape and give a top level overview how much we had, how much we have and on what general fields it has been spend. (Costs per development milestone, marketing, etc).

It's one thing to promise this beforehand and I can completely understand this didn't get top priority in the overall development/activities, but it sure would be great if we could get an open and direct answer about it. It's another chance to show how this crypto business is supposed to be run ethically.

I can understand you (syn) feel being pressed in a hard place because of the critical questions, but simply noting you don't know would be sufficient for now. Just until Dan has the possibility to clear things up that's totally ok. Please don't make tracking the financial expenses our responsibility, XC is anonymous for crying out loud It's impossible. Some transparency about those main expenses would be sufficient in my opinion

[cryptico]

So your interpretation of Pizpie was that we'd provide details on the purpose of every single payment from the premine addresses?

Aside from the fact that this isn't what Pizpie committed to, do you think that it would be ethical for us to disclose people's salaries?

(I'm not asking this rhetorically btw. I'm genuinely interested. It's a priority of ours that the community is part of this process.)

That was not my interpretation.  I certainly wouldn't expect details and specific salaries for dev but a simple post telling us the team has been paid using it or it has been converted to BTC/FIAT for "insert purpose here" was the expectation set based on that post.  

Exactly that

[hoertest]

crypto is a special place. if you get paid from a premine you have to live with the fact that this salary isn't private. thats just part of the game. Arlyn you nitpicking regarding formulations annoys big time. a line like "we gonne pay some devs from the premine the next day" and the total amount for how many total work hours wouldn't be to much to ask. Its just the worst possible timing to do this the day after blocknet ipo. how stupid can one be.

btw the theorie of dan cashing out and moving to blocknet is nonsense since blocknet would be done with his reputation killed like that.  

[cryptico]

This being the XC thread, and XC being the new standard of transparency in crypto (started with Dan's linkedin profile) it would be great if the team would set the bar for the crypto landscape and give a top level overview how much we had, how much we have and on what general fields it has been spend. (Costs per development milestone, marketing, etc).

It's one thing to promise this beforehand and I can completely understand this didn't get top priority in the overall development/activities, but it sure would be great if we could get an open and direct answer about it. It's another chance to show how this crypto business is supposed to be run ethically.

I can understand you (syn) feel being pressed in a hard place because of the critical questions, but simply noting you don't know would be sufficient for now. Just until Dan has the possibility to clear things up that's totally ok. Please don't make tracking the financial expenses our responsibility, XC is anonymous for crying out loud It's impossible. Some transparency about those main expenses would be sufficient in my opinion

Exactly well said and well phrased

[wooder]

So your interpretation of Pizpie was that we'd provide details on the purpose of every single payment from the premine addresses?

Aside from the fact that this isn't what Pizpie committed to, do you think that it would be ethical for us to disclose people's salaries?

(I'm not asking this rhetorically btw. I'm genuinely interested. It's a priority of ours that the community is part of this process.)

That was not my interpretation.  I certainly wouldn't expect details and specific salaries for dev but a simple post telling us the team has been paid using it or it has been converted to BTC/FIAT for "insert purpose here" was the expectation set based on that post.  

Exactly that

The bad thing is, the wallet is nearly empty and we are talking about stuff that can't be changed anymore and the XC team tells us that transparency means to use a blockchain.

[Revelation]

Morning folks

Hmm... Looks like we need to get you all some details about how the premine has been spent and which address(es) you can all keep track of it on. It's pretty important that you're able to do this.

We'll need to wait until Dan's awake since I don't have any access to the premine. But I can tell you a few things:

- I will reveal that some of the premine has been used to pay me. It's a full time job, and I'm happy to be paid in XC.

- Dan is very likely to have paid XC to devs for various things.

- I don't think that Dan has used the premine for his own expenses. I actually think he *should* use it for his expenses, and I hope he has, but I'm not sure he has. He's specifically mentioned that XChat was developed out of his own funds.



Some pure speculation:

- I don't know how much of the premine is left, and how much might exist in BTC or another currency.

- It's possible that Dan diversified XC's funding to mitigate risk and/or to pay devs. Good plan in my opinion.

- It's possible that the premine could be used to generate profits on other coins, and thus replenish the premine.

I don't mind at all for you and the dev team to be paid with the premine. What I do mind is if you do this without stating publicly the amounts the addresses and the time you were/are paid.

This is just complying with the standards that the team itself set up to follow as per pizpie link with the addresses were mentioning that each expense was going to be public.

Let me put this to the community:

Would one or two of you be happy to take responsibility for tracking the premine? This is important because if the XC team had this responsibility, there could be a conflict of interest.

(Cryptico, expenditures are public because they're on a blockchain. We haven't, like, "failed to comply to our own standards." What's happened is simply that everyone seemed to see no need to keep track of the premine from week to week, and now we're playing catch-up. Looks like there's some tidying up to, but it's all there in the blockchain.)

Arlyn you'd better weight your words a bit more and read twice what you are posting about this topic here you have quite few senior xc members fed up on how lately things are handled in xc land. Off course everything is public in the block chain

I'm not an expert in tracking the block chain and all the transactions are there the fact is that I don't know where the money went and what they were used for. This you fail to comply with the standard set up by yourself. For example I can see that there was a 35000 movement in the second address of the pizpie reddit post on the 27 may all time high let's say it was sold for 0.004 those are 140 BTC for 600 dollars 84000 dollars . it's a lot of money.

Now I don't know from the block chain if that was a dump to an exchange or just a movement to another address because I'm not an expert on how to see that and track black chains transactions.

This where the fud speculation can begin and where was important for you to make public the use of those funds if they were sold or the movement of them and why.

Now please you can begin by stating how much you were paid with the premine till now and on with address.

Thank you. You see no caps. I'm improving

By 2014-6-3 03:07:27 the premine address was completely depleted (the balance was 0) and after that it was replenished to some extent, mostly by this single transaction:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/xc/tx.dws?98268.htm

[Herbix]

We can now also see the that money was moved but no one knows where. Even if you state that you don't dumped it we have to believe you and as it seems believing in the XC team statements isn't the best idea at least when i look at the reddit statement and the premine wallet.

XC Block explorer identifies quite a few of the transactions as exchange addresses, for example:
727XC Mintpal 14.8.
715XC Mintpal 14.8.
4000XC Bittrex 25.8.
4000XC Mintpal 25.8.
550XC Mintpal 25.8.
2800XC Cryptsy 26.8.
481XC Mintpal 1.9.
4830XC Bittrex 3.9.
750XC Poloniex 18.9.
750XC MintPal 21.9.
750XC Cryptsy 21.9.
750XC Bittrex 21.9.
675XC Mintpal 22.9.
5000XC Mintpal 23.9.
26778XC

[qawzsx]

Morning folks

Hmm... Looks like we need to get you all some details about how the premine has been spent and which address(es) you can all keep track of it on. It's pretty important that you're able to do this.

We'll need to wait until Dan's awake since I don't have any access to the premine. But I can tell you a few things:

- I will reveal that some of the premine has been used to pay me. It's a full time job, and I'm happy to be paid in XC.

- Dan is very likely to have paid XC to devs for various things.

- I don't think that Dan has used the premine for his own expenses. I actually think he *should* use it for his expenses, and I hope he has, but I'm not sure he has. He's specifically mentioned that XChat was developed out of his own funds.



Some pure speculation:

- I don't know how much of the premine is left, and how much might exist in BTC or another currency.

- It's possible that Dan diversified XC's funding to mitigate risk and/or to pay devs. Good plan in my opinion.

- It's possible that the premine could be used to generate profits on other coins, and thus replenish the premine.

I don't mind at all for you and the dev team to be paid with the premine. What I do mind is if you do this without stating publicly the amounts the addresses and the time you were/are paid.

This is just complying with the standards that the team itself set up to follow as per pizpie link with the addresses were mentioning that each expense was going to be public.

YOU AGAIN??
NOW IT"S ABOUT PREMINE?

GOSHHHHH!!!!! I hope you dump your xc and block faster and go look for another coin, because you really hurt this coin with you idiotic posts.
Always make sure of a thing before posting... FUDER!!!!!

[the_game1224]

crypto is a special place. if you get paid from a premine you have to live with the fact that this salary isn't private. thats just part of the game. Arlyn you nitpicking regarding formulations annoys big time. a line like "we gonne pay some devs from the premine the next day" and the total amount for how many total work hours wouldn't be to much to ask. Its just the worst possible timing to do this the day after blocknet ipo. how stupid can one be.

btw the theorie of dan cashing out and moving to blocknet is nonsense since blocknet would be done with his reputation killed like that.  

Well put as always hoertest.   This isnt the first time terrible timing has shown its ugly face and harmed XC.  

and yes I completely agree about Dan.  

[synechist]

Thanks for the perspectives here everyone.

In retrospect I agree that it would've been best for the team to have prioritised how and what we communicate about spending the premine. I apologise on behalf of the team for having dropped the ball in this respect. I'm not sure whose responsibility this would've been, and that's part of what went wrong.

I'll wait until Dan is around and then talk to him about this.

We'll get back to you with info on what the premine has been spent on.

Would it be ok with you if we give a general summary? Accounting for every expenditure would take quite a while.

[wooder]

Thanks for the perspectives here everyone.

In retrospect I agree that it would've been best for the team to have prioritised how and what we communicate about spending the premine. I apologise on behalf of the team for having dropped the ball in this respect. I'm not sure whose responsibility this would've been, and that's part of what went wrong.

I'll wait until Dan is around and then talk to him about this.

We'll get back to you with info on what the premine has been spent on.

Would it be ok with you if we give a general summary? Accounting for every expenditure would take quite a while.

The question for me is more like, to which extend was the premine used to move the price on exchanges but i guess no one will answere this question

[Revelation]

We can now also see the that money was moved but no one knows where. Even if you state that you don't dumped it we have to believe you and as it seems believing in the XC team statements isn't the best idea at least when i look at the reddit statement and the premine wallet.

XC Block explorer identifies quite a few of the transactions as exchange addresses, for example:
727XC Mintpal 14.8.
715XC Mintpal 14.8.
4000XC Bittrex 25.8.
4000XC Mintpal 25.8.
550XC Mintpal 25.8.
2800XC Cryptsy 26.8.
481XC Mintpal 1.9.
4830XC Bittrex 3.9.
750XC Poloniex 18.9.
750XC MintPal 21.9.
750XC Cryptsy 21.9.
750XC Bittrex 21.9.
675XC Mintpal 22.9.
5000XC Mintpal 23.9.
26778XC

Could you do the same analysis prior to full pre-mine address depletion, i.e. before 2014-6-3 03:07:27 ?

[qawzsx]

Thanks for the perspectives here everyone.

In retrospect I agree that it would've been best for the team to have prioritised how and what we communicate about spending the premine. I apologise on behalf of the team for having dropped the ball in this respect. I'm not sure whose responsibility this would've been, and that's part of what went wrong.

I'll wait until Dan is around and then talk to him about this.

We'll get back to you with info on what the premine has been spent on.

Would it be ok with you if we give a general summary? Accounting for every expenditure would take quite a while.

The question for me is more like, to which extend was the premine used to move the price on exchanges but i guess no one will answere this question

Is this for real? ))))

[cryptico]

Morning folks

Hmm... Looks like we need to get you all some details about how the premine has been spent and which address(es) you can all keep track of it on. It's pretty important that you're able to do this.

We'll need to wait until Dan's awake since I don't have any access to the premine. But I can tell you a few things:

- I will reveal that some of the premine has been used to pay me. It's a full time job, and I'm happy to be paid in XC.

- Dan is very likely to have paid XC to devs for various things.

- I don't think that Dan has used the premine for his own expenses. I actually think he *should* use it for his expenses, and I hope he has, but I'm not sure he has. He's specifically mentioned that XChat was developed out of his own funds.



Some pure speculation:

- I don't know how much of the premine is left, and how much might exist in BTC or another currency.

- It's possible that Dan diversified XC's funding to mitigate risk and/or to pay devs. Good plan in my opinion.

- It's possible that the premine could be used to generate profits on other coins, and thus replenish the premine.

I don't mind at all for you and the dev team to be paid with the premine. What I do mind is if you do this without stating publicly the amounts the addresses and the time you were/are paid.

This is just complying with the standards that the team itself set up to follow as per pizpie link with the addresses were mentioning that each expense was going to be public.

YOU AGAIN??
NOW IT"S ABOUT PREMINE?

GOSHHHHH!!!!! I hope you dump your xc and block faster and go look for another coin, because you really hurt this coin with you idiotic posts.
Always make sure of a thing before posting... FUDER!!!!!

You know I never said this to anyone in here but now I will Fuck Off you and your idiotic FUDS accusations I'm one of the members that invested more in this thread and contributed the most with constructive criticism I don't remember you providing ibe inch if constructiveness for xc. If it was not for my posts in the block net thread you and many others might not have even had the 10% discount from CoinGateway. And now you are accusing me when first I did not bring up this and second all of us are concerned. You are just a blind idiotic fan boy at this point just go fuck yourself.

Now Teka you can delete this post and his post also.

Thank you

[cryptico]

Thanks for the perspectives here everyone.

In retrospect I agree that it would've been best for the team to have prioritised how and what we communicate about spending the premine. I apologise on behalf of the team for having dropped the ball in this respect. I'm not sure whose responsibility this would've been, and that's part of what went wrong.

I'll wait until Dan is around and then talk to him about this.

We'll get back to you with info on what the premine has been spent on.

Would it be ok with you if we give a general summary? Accounting for every expenditure would take quite a while.

Thank you that is all that we are asking and we can try to set the standard in crypto land for transparency for the first time. This could be used in a huge positive backlash for PR please handle it and use it wisely after wards

[mav137]

Thanks for the perspectives here everyone.

In retrospect I agree that it would've been best for the team to have prioritised how and what we communicate about spending the premine. I apologise on behalf of the team for having dropped the ball in this respect. I'm not sure whose responsibility this would've been, and that's part of what went wrong.

I'll wait until Dan is around and then talk to him about this.

We'll get back to you with info on what the premine has been spent on.

Would it be ok with you if we give a general summary? Accounting for every expenditure would take quite a while.

Thank you that is all that we are asking and we can try to set the standard in crypto land for transparency for the first time. This could be used in a huge positive backlash for PR please handle it and use it wisely after wards

+1

[wooder]

Thanks for the perspectives here everyone.

In retrospect I agree that it would've been best for the team to have prioritised how and what we communicate about spending the premine. I apologise on behalf of the team for having dropped the ball in this respect. I'm not sure whose responsibility this would've been, and that's part of what went wrong.

I'll wait until Dan is around and then talk to him about this.

We'll get back to you with info on what the premine has been spent on.

Would it be ok with you if we give a general summary? Accounting for every expenditure would take quite a while.

Thank you that is all that we are asking and we can try to set the standard in crypto land for transparency for the first time. This could be used in a huge positive backlash for PR please handle it and use it wisely after wards

But it is still somehow useless to get the information afterwards with things made up to fit the numbers.

I'm disapointed that the statement for "transparency" was just a statement and no promised actions followed.