Gavin will visit the CIA

[kiba]

In the realm of details, however, that is not true.  The trip will be about $500 when all is said and done.  Gavin's typical salary as a programmer in the last few years, which is a matter of public record because he was working for the state of Massachusetts, was in the range of $30,000 - $40,000.

And he's working on this project, on his own fricking expense. Nobody is paying him to be the technical lead.

In any case, I don't give a damn if Gavin happens to be a billionaire when he present Bitcoin to the CIA.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I recognize the countercultural spirit of this group (though I find the anarchic extremeness of many of its members bizarre, difficult to read, and distortive of the discussion -- for example, Bitcoin almost certainly does not represent any sort of threat to the White House, the Internal Revenue Service, or other countries' analogues of those organization

.... that's fine if you think that, and it will be great if WH, IRS, CIA or any other gubmint drone in position to do something keeps seeing it like this for as long as possible .... because by the time they recognise the threat it will be too late .... 0.8 THash/s and counting, grow baby grow the drones are still asleep.

[stillfire]

In the realm of details, however, that is not true.  The trip will be about $500 when all is said and done.

Surely it is not appropriate to discuss his salary details.

I imagine we'd need to compare with a regular software developer consultancy fee since that better reflects the true cost of time (in a salaried job benefits, vacations, lower taxes and so on play in). Let's say $100 per hour to be conservative. Then assume he prepares his material for a day, and stays the night, and travels back the next, losing 3 days in total. If he has anything less than $2400 left after paying for all expenses, he lost money compared to just staying at home.

It's all rather flimsy but my point was simply that it isn't much money.

[Jim Hyslop]

0.8 THash/s and counting, grow baby grow the drones are still asleep.

Wait, wait - I'm still trying to get my GPU mining rig set up! Let the hash rate stay the same until I at least mine ONE block! :-D

[marcus_of_augustus]

In the realm of details, however, that is not true.  The trip will be about $500 when all is said and done.

Surely it is not appropriate to discuss his salary details.

I imagine we'd need to compare with a regular software developer consultancy fee since that better reflects the true cost of time (in a salaried job benefits, vacations, lower taxes and so on play in). Let's say $100 per hour to be conservative. Then assume he prepares his material for a day, and stays the night, and travels back the next, losing 3 days in total. If he has anything less than $2400 left after paying for all expenses, he lost money compared to just staying at home.

It's all rather flimsy but my point was simply that it isn't much money.

.... especially in evaporating fiat currency ...

[MoonShadow]

0.8 THash/s and counting, grow baby grow the drones are still asleep.

Wait, wait - I'm still trying to get my GPU mining rig set up! Let the hash rate stay the same until I at least mine ONE block! :-D

Almost certainly not going to happen.

[JohnDoe]

I don't need to be a committed developer (yet?) on this project to say that; my point is that it decreases my willingness, and perhaps that of others, to volunteer time and effort to contribute.

That's fine. People who get jealous of other people's success probably don't fit in here anyway.

[MacRohard]

I want to get this out in the open because it is the kind of thing that will generate conspiracy theories:  I'm going to give a presentation about Bitcoin at CIA headquarters in June at an emerging technologies conference for the US intelligence community.

I accepted the invitation to speak because the fact that I was invited means Bitcoin is already on their radar, and I think it might be a good chance to talk about why I think Bitcoin will make the world a better place.  I think the goals of this project are to create a better currency, create a more competitive and efficient international payment system, and give people more direct control over their finances.  And I don't think any of those goals are incompatible with the goals of government.

I'm only very slightly worried that talking about bitcoin at the CIA will increase the chances they'll try to do something we don't want them to do.  I think accepting their invitation and being open about exactly what bitcoin is will make it less likely they'll see it as a threat.

PS: Full disclosure: I'll be paid a one-time fee of $3,000 to cover expenses and pay me for my time.  I don't want any "Gavin is on the CIA's payroll" rumors to get started, either...

As always, comments and questions and discussion welcome.  I'd really rather not hear any conspiracy theories about how they'll secretly implant a mind-control chip in my head while I'm there, though....

Makes sense.. one of the main uses of bitcoin will probably be to pay for illegal drugs.. the CIA are the world's largest drug dealers.

[Anonymous]

If gavin got 3000 bitcoins for speaking to the cia by the time he actually spoke to them it would be worth over $6000 and think of the prime cocaine he could buy from the cia with that and sell on silk road for a profit
 

hint to self - always ask to get paid in bitcoins

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I don't want any "Gavin is on the CIA's payroll" rumors to get started, either...

If you were on their payroll, surely you wouldn't write everything openly like this with all the details.
I believe you.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Not if they openly approached him.  If they weren't going to play nice, they wouldn't have bothered with a ruse.  Like I said, openly inviting him to speak and offering him a speaker's fee tells me that they intend to play nice.  It's a very bullish signal.

Absolutely right.

I think they are curious how/if they can use bitcoins to their advantage and against other nations.
IMHO if/after they figure out they cannot use BTC for their gains, they will attack it.

The question is if they can.
If CIA has thrown their computer clusters' power into generating Bitcoin, they could become one of early adopters, which could  theoretically give them advantage agains other nations. Can that be the cause for their sudden interest in BTC ?

[no to the gold cult]

The CIA is in my opinion, a terrorist organization. Like this guy knows...



you can always do with a few more stacks of cash for a new doom-ray machine. Next time they setup a bomb attack on a bus in Iran or something, they might find it useful to pay for things in bitcoin.

[bittersweet]

My point of view is government is a criminal organization, so I don't like it very much. Just like I wouldn't like if Bitcoin developers went to talk about it with other organized thieves, kidnappers and murderers. I think Bitcoin should be promoted more among honest people, who trade drugs, weapons, voluntary porn of any kind and so on, not among criminals gangs.

But in the end everyone is free to talk with anyone they want so whatever. I just don't think talking with such people will help Bitcoin. It may indeed help them to harm more people.

[no to the gold cult]

I don't think governments are any more evil than knives or hammers. They are a tool to be used to organize commons or something. Who wields it and to what purpose... that's a seperate question. Saying "governments are evil" makes calling the CIA "a terrorist organization" meaningless.

I merely register my disagreement with your statement in order to preserve the meaning of my own. Naturally I assume that you disagree.

[bittersweet]

Either government is voluntary (you agree that some person will make decisions for you, maybe a good example would be modern hierarchy in catholic church) or it's a criminal organization that uses violence and extortion and in the principle is just a large mafia with traditions.

[LightRider]

Cocaine In America

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

My point of view is government is a criminal organization, so I don't like it very much. Just like I wouldn't like if Bitcoin developers went to talk about it with other organized thieves, kidnappers and murderers. I think Bitcoin should be promoted more among honest people, who trade drugs, weapons, voluntary porn of any kind and so on, not among criminals gangs.

Hahahahaha

[no to the gold cult]

Either government is voluntary (you agree that some person will make decisions for you, maybe a good example would be modern hierarchy in catholic church) or it's a criminal organization that uses violence and extortion and in the principle is just a large mafia with traditions.

Premise fail.

[no to the gold cult]

Cocaine In America

Conspiracy Institute of America.

[caveden]

My point of view is government is a criminal organization, so I don't like it very much. Just like I wouldn't like if Bitcoin developers went to talk about it with other organized thieves, kidnappers and murderers. I think Bitcoin should be promoted more among honest people, who trade drugs, weapons, voluntary porn of any kind and so on, not among criminals gangs.

hahaha, I couldn't have said it better.

But well, putting principles aside and thinking practically, Gavin took the right decision I guess. You can't always run away from criminal gangs, specially such a powerful one.