ANTMINER S3+ Discussion and Support Thread

[BennyTheBall]

The ROI with bitcoin purchases can depend on how you look at it. I purchased some S1s with bitcoins that I purchased at about $350. To keep the math simple, say the bitcoin value was $650 when I purchased an S1 at 1 BTC. Did the S1 cost me $350 or $650?

I feel that it only cost me $350 since that's what I paid for the 1 BTC.

For tax purposes, I'm using FIFO accounting similar to when opening and closing a stock "tax lot". But for tax purposes I'm not sure whether I should be taking a capital gain of $300 for when "I sold" the bitcoin and then claiming the S1 cost me $650.

Guess it depends on how the IRS treats. Will be fun at tax time.

interesting...I say that if you purchased 1 BTC for $350, then bought something that cost $650 with that bitcoin, then yes, you had capital gains of $300, but if you bought miner for BTC, then you just spend your original $350, UNLESS you later sold your miner. Selling would close the "circle" of transactions back to cash.

What about if you bought with BTC that you mined using other equipment? In the simplistic view, that BTC cost you $0.

[Biodom]

The ROI with bitcoin purchases can depend on how you look at it. I purchased some S1s with bitcoins that I purchased at about $350. To keep the math simple, say the bitcoin value was $650 when I purchased an S1 at 1 BTC. Did the S1 cost me $350 or $650?

I feel that it only cost me $350 since that's what I paid for the 1 BTC.

For tax purposes, I'm using FIFO accounting similar to when opening and closing a stock "tax lot". But for tax purposes I'm not sure whether I should be taking a capital gain of $300 for when "I sold" the bitcoin and then claiming the S1 cost me $650.

Guess it depends on how the IRS treats. Will be fun at tax time.

interesting...I say that if you purchased 1 BTC for $350, then bought something that cost $650 with that bitcoin, then yes, you had capital gains of $300, but if you bought miner for BTC, then you just spend your original $350, UNLESS you later sold your miner. Selling would close the "circle" of transactions back to cash.

What about if you bought with BTC that you mined using other equipment? In the simplistic view, that BTC cost you $0.

no, it did not cost you zero. Did you pay for that prior equipment plus electricity?

[vortexz]

what ? they started shipping batch 8 ?

[johnray]

what ? they started shipping batch 8 ?

My Edit as disappeared too. Some insights?

[lordmykl]

what ? they started shipping batch 8 ?

My Edit as disappeared too. Some insights?

Don't hold your breath, the 'Edit' link on my first B8 order disappeared weeks ago.

[sjc1490]

what ? they started shipping batch 8 ?

My Edit as disappeared too. Some insights?

Don't hold your breath, the 'Edit' link on my first B8 order disappeared weeks ago.

+1+1+1+1

[vortexz]

damn, that was too good to be true.

[marklyon]

My edit disappeared as well. 

One can hope.

[Stratobitz]

BTC rise in value is irrelevant when considering profit. If you purchase the unit WITH BTC, had you simply just saved the BTC, at the end of 3 years you would still have the same amount of BTC.

So if .58 BTC cost will return .58 BTC return over a term of 3 years, had you simply held and not purchased, you would still have .58 BTC.

And in 3 years, the Miner, and PSU, will be worth nothing.

Purchasing a S3+ at .58 BTC is 100% - Hands Down - Burning your Money. You are essentially buying a device that costs .58 BTC that will, factoring all the near impossibilities I listed, return .58 back.

It's a lose lose.

Strato

And that is why I said to do the calculation with different time frame. S3 will still have value in 1 year, just like S1 still has value today. If you sell the equipment when it still has value you can come out ahead. You would likely be able to re-use the PSU if you upgraded to newer equipment so no loss there.

I respectfully disagree. The S3+ will have no value in 1 year. Even with just a 10% difficulty increase per step; in 365 days the S3+ would return an average yield of 0.00066 BTC per day on 9/20/15 - IF your power cost was 0. If you paid anything over $0.02 kW/hr you would be mining at a loss.

Who would buy it?  

I don't see any value there.

Strato

[lordmykl]

My edit disappeared as well. 

One can hope.

My first B8 order should be one of the first to be processed (2014-08-13 19:15:19.0) so (one would assume) it should be one of the first to ship as well. I'll post in this forum immediately after receiving notification of shipment. Watching it like a hawk now...

[Stratobitz]

The ROI with bitcoin purchases can depend on how you look at it. I purchased some S1s with bitcoins that I purchased at about $350. To keep the math simple, say the bitcoin value was $650 when I purchased an S1 at 1 BTC. Did the S1 cost me $350 or $650?

I feel that it only cost me $350 since that's what I paid for the 1 BTC.

For tax purposes, I'm using FIFO accounting similar to when opening and closing a stock "tax lot". But for tax purposes I'm not sure whether I should be taking a capital gain of $300 for when "I sold" the bitcoin and then claiming the S1 cost me $650.

Guess it depends on how the IRS treats. Will be fun at tax time.

You should look into whether or not you can qualify as a manufacturer in your jurisdiction. We had to take the issue to court with the state, but prevailed. Thus all digital products we produce are inventory; and there is no taxable event until the item which we manufactured is sold.

Our position, was that the definition of manufacturing (in our area) was "Usuing machines, manpower, materials, and or energy to create a new tangible item."  We argued that is exactly what we were doing.  Rearranging 1s and 0s and producing paper wallets.

Victory for us. We ended up landing a sales tax exemption, and manufacturing exemption.

Strato

[bobsav2121]

Any update on the shipping time of the S1 upgrades from Bitmain ?

Bob

[Biodom]

The ROI with bitcoin purchases can depend on how you look at it. I purchased some S1s with bitcoins that I purchased at about $350. To keep the math simple, say the bitcoin value was $650 when I purchased an S1 at 1 BTC. Did the S1 cost me $350 or $650?

I feel that it only cost me $350 since that's what I paid for the 1 BTC.

For tax purposes, I'm using FIFO accounting similar to when opening and closing a stock "tax lot". But for tax purposes I'm not sure whether I should be taking a capital gain of $300 for when "I sold" the bitcoin and then claiming the S1 cost me $650.

Guess it depends on how the IRS treats. Will be fun at tax time.

You should look into whether or not you can qualify as a manufacturer in your jurisdiction. We had to take the issue to court with the state, but prevailed. Thus all digital products we produce are inventory; and there is no taxable event until the item which we manufactured is sold.

Our position, was that the definition of manufacturing (in our area) was "Usuing machines, manpower, materials, and or energy to create a new tangible item."  We argued that is exactly what we were doing.  Rearranging 1s and 0s and producing paper wallets.

Victory for us. We ended up landing a sales tax exemption, and manufacturing exemption.

Strato

interesting...where are you (in US)?

[suchmoon]

I respectfully disagree. The S3+ will have no value in 1 year. Even with just a 10% difficulty increase per step; in 365 days the S3+ would return an average yield of 0.00066 BTC per day on 9/20/15 - IF your power cost was 0. If you paid anything over $0.02 kW/hr you would be mining at a loss.

Who would buy it?  

I don't see any value there.

Strato

Please send me your worthless S3 next September. I'll even pay for shipping if you're in the US. Has to be in working condition.

[philipma1957]

BTC rise in value is irrelevant when considering profit. If you purchase the unit WITH BTC, had you simply just saved the BTC, at the end of 3 years you would still have the same amount of BTC.

So if .58 BTC cost will return .58 BTC return over a term of 3 years, had you simply held and not purchased, you would still have .58 BTC.

And in 3 years, the Miner, and PSU, will be worth nothing.

Purchasing a S3+ at .58 BTC is 100% - Hands Down - Burning your Money. You are essentially buying a device that costs .58 BTC that will, factoring all the near impossibilities I listed, return .58 back.

It's a lose lose.

Strato

And that is why I said to do the calculation with different time frame. S3 will still have value in 1 year, just like S1 still has value today. If you sell the equipment when it still has value you can come out ahead. You would likely be able to re-use the PSU if you upgraded to newer equipment so no loss there.

I respectfully disagree. The S3+ will have no value in 1 year. Even with just a 10% difficulty increase per step; in 365 days the S3+ would return an average yield of 0.00066 BTC per day on 9/20/15 - IF your power cost was 0. If you paid anything over $0.02 kW/hr you would be mining at a loss.

Who would buy it?  

I don't see any value there.

Strato

 well if btc stays flat in usd then you are correct.  but if diff does 1 year in a row of 10% btc will go up in price.  if you can be sure of that growth rate and no one makes a better then .5 watt chip btc must go up in price.

[Stratobitz]

I respectfully disagree. The S3+ will have no value in 1 year. Even with just a 10% difficulty increase per step; in 365 days the S3+ would return an average yield of 0.00066 BTC per day on 9/20/15 - IF your power cost was 0. If you paid anything over $0.02 kW/hr you would be mining at a loss.

Who would buy it?  

I don't see any value there.

Strato

Please send me your worthless S3 next September. I'll even pay for shipping if you're in the US. Has to be in working condition.

If you pay the shipping

[Stratobitz]

The ROI with bitcoin purchases can depend on how you look at it. I purchased some S1s with bitcoins that I purchased at about $350. To keep the math simple, say the bitcoin value was $650 when I purchased an S1 at 1 BTC. Did the S1 cost me $350 or $650?

I feel that it only cost me $350 since that's what I paid for the 1 BTC.

For tax purposes, I'm using FIFO accounting similar to when opening and closing a stock "tax lot". But for tax purposes I'm not sure whether I should be taking a capital gain of $300 for when "I sold" the bitcoin and then claiming the S1 cost me $650.

Guess it depends on how the IRS treats. Will be fun at tax time.

You should look into whether or not you can qualify as a manufacturer in your jurisdiction. We had to take the issue to court with the state, but prevailed. Thus all digital products we produce are inventory; and there is no taxable event until the item which we manufactured is sold.

Our position, was that the definition of manufacturing (in our area) was "Usuing machines, manpower, materials, and or energy to create a new tangible item."  We argued that is exactly what we were doing.  Rearranging 1s and 0s and producing paper wallets.

Victory for us. We ended up landing a sales tax exemption, and manufacturing exemption.

Strato

interesting...where are you (in US)?

Yes

[chadbu]

If btc goes to $5,000 next august.

** Buy .58 btc and in a year you'll have .58 btc.

** Buy a S3+ and in a year you'll have .58 btc. And at that time the S3+ will produce a small amount of btc at a rate of $500 per 1 btc.
Multiplying btc price by ten is like dividing your electrical cost by 10. The day you have to turn off the s3, because electric cost more than it makes, could be 20 years if btc keeps doubling.    

If btc stays at $500, the S3+ will break even and the only profit is from the parts for a future s12 upgrade.

[Stratobitz]

If btc goes to $5,000 next august.

** Buy .58 btc and in a year you'll have .58 btc.

** Buy a S3+ and in a year you'll have .58 btc. And at that time the S3+ will produce a small amount of btc at a rate of $500 per 1 btc.
Multiplying btc price by ten is like dividing your electrical cost by 10. The day you have to turn off the s3, because electric cost more than it makes, could be 20 years if btc keeps doubling.    

If btc stays at $500, the S3+ will break even and the only profit is from the parts for a future s12 upgrade.

You are failing to factor in difficulty friend. BTC could be $5,000,000 each - but if the S3+ takes 10,000 years to mine one your power costs will far exceed any revenue produced.

[Biodom]

The ROI with bitcoin purchases can depend on how you look at it. I purchased some S1s with bitcoins that I purchased at about $350. To keep the math simple, say the bitcoin value was $650 when I purchased an S1 at 1 BTC. Did the S1 cost me $350 or $650?

I feel that it only cost me $350 since that's what I paid for the 1 BTC.

For tax purposes, I'm using FIFO accounting similar to when opening and closing a stock "tax lot". But for tax purposes I'm not sure whether I should be taking a capital gain of $300 for when "I sold" the bitcoin and then claiming the S1 cost me $650.

Guess it depends on how the IRS treats. Will be fun at tax time.

You should look into whether or not you can qualify as a manufacturer in your jurisdiction. We had to take the issue to court with the state, but prevailed. Thus all digital products we produce are inventory; and there is no taxable event until the item which we manufactured is sold.

Our position, was that the definition of manufacturing (in our area) was "Usuing machines, manpower, materials, and or energy to create a new tangible item."  We argued that is exactly what we were doing.  Rearranging 1s and 0s and producing paper wallets.

Victory for us. We ended up landing a sales tax exemption, and manufacturing exemption.

Strato

interesting...where are you (in US)?

Yes

state, man, is it a secret?