GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[MOB]

I've been thinking. One business that could be buying hash capacity is sim unlock shops. A lot of Nokia's simlocks can be cracked by brute force doing SHA-256 calculations. So far it has been done mostly by GPU's but there are companies that offer very low prices for unlocks online which can't be profitable with GPU's. I've got a few obsolete BFL Jalapeno's that I'm going to bring to a friend of mine who is in that business. He's going to try to run those SHA256 hashes on these machines. SHA-256 has been implemented in a lot of other different applications, might very well be that they don't use their Bitcoin miners for solely bitcoin but also for other stuff. Just a brain fart, but wanted to share the idea.

Yes, SHA256 can have other applications (as can GPU mining setups), but not Scrypt ASICs.  My understand was that the majority of Zen's hardware is supposedly Scrypt based.  Anyone have any source for what GAW has hardware-wise?

Anyone know of a way to do useful work with Scrypt ASICs?

[rdyoung]

I've been thinking. One business that could be buying hash capacity is sim unlock shops. A lot of Nokia's simlocks can be cracked by brute force doing SHA-256 calculations. So far it has been done mostly by GPU's but there are companies that offer very low prices for unlocks online which can't be profitable with GPU's. I've got a few obsolete BFL Jalapeno's that I'm going to bring to a friend of mine who is in that business. He's going to try to run those SHA256 hashes on these machines. SHA-256 has been implemented in a lot of other different applications, might very well be that they don't use their Bitcoin miners for solely bitcoin but also for other stuff. Just a brain fart, but wanted to share the idea.

Yes, SHA256 can have other applications (as can GPU mining setups), but not Scrypt ASICs.  My understand was that the majority of Zen's hardware is supposedly Scrypt based.  Anyone have any source for what GAW has hardware-wise?

Anyone know of a way to do useful work with Scrypt ASICs?

The problem with this is that sha256 asics do work 1 way. As I understand it, they only hash looking for a match, they can't do the reverse.
Why would cellphone shops be buying asics when sites like this http://www.gsmliberty.net/shop/nokia_unlock.php exist.

The logic behind this is flawed, asics have been hardcoded to do 1 function and hopefully do it well, if you want to be able bruteforce anything you would need to either program an fpga to do it, or design an asic that did that function.

[Honeycutt22]

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

[Flep182]

I've been thinking. One business that could be buying hash capacity is sim unlock shops. A lot of Nokia's simlocks can be cracked by brute force doing SHA-256 calculations. So far it has been done mostly by GPU's but there are companies that offer very low prices for unlocks online which can't be profitable with GPU's. I've got a few obsolete BFL Jalapeno's that I'm going to bring to a friend of mine who is in that business. He's going to try to run those SHA256 hashes on these machines. SHA-256 has been implemented in a lot of other different applications, might very well be that they don't use their Bitcoin miners for solely bitcoin but also for other stuff. Just a brain fart, but wanted to share the idea.

Yes, SHA256 can have other applications (as can GPU mining setups), but not Scrypt ASICs.  My understand was that the majority of Zen's hardware is supposedly Scrypt based.  Anyone have any source for what GAW has hardware-wise?

Anyone know of a way to do useful work with Scrypt ASICs?

The problem with this is that sha256 asics do work 1 way. As I understand it, they only hash looking for a match, they can't do the reverse.
Why would cellphone shops be buying asics when sites like this http://www.gsmliberty.net/shop/nokia_unlock.php exist.

The logic behind this is flawed, asics have been hardcoded to do 1 function and hopefully do it well, if you want to be able bruteforce anything you would need to either program an fpga to do it, or design an asic that did that function.

That's for an older generation phones. The new ones have a different type of lock on them.
Once I'll be flying over I'll know more

[suchmoon]

Neone know when the new hashtalk.org will be up? or did they change the site addy?

"tomorrow"

AFAIK the address will not change.

[rdyoung]

I've been thinking. One business that could be buying hash capacity is sim unlock shops. A lot of Nokia's simlocks can be cracked by brute force doing SHA-256 calculations. So far it has been done mostly by GPU's but there are companies that offer very low prices for unlocks online which can't be profitable with GPU's. I've got a few obsolete BFL Jalapeno's that I'm going to bring to a friend of mine who is in that business. He's going to try to run those SHA256 hashes on these machines. SHA-256 has been implemented in a lot of other different applications, might very well be that they don't use their Bitcoin miners for solely bitcoin but also for other stuff. Just a brain fart, but wanted to share the idea.

Yes, SHA256 can have other applications (as can GPU mining setups), but not Scrypt ASICs.  My understand was that the majority of Zen's hardware is supposedly Scrypt based.  Anyone have any source for what GAW has hardware-wise?

Anyone know of a way to do useful work with Scrypt ASICs?

The problem with this is that sha256 asics do work 1 way. As I understand it, they only hash looking for a match, they can't do the reverse.
Why would cellphone shops be buying asics when sites like this http://www.gsmliberty.net/shop/nokia_unlock.php exist.

The logic behind this is flawed, asics have been hardcoded to do 1 function and hopefully do it well, if you want to be able bruteforce anything you would need to either program an fpga to do it, or design an asic that did that function.

That's for an older generation phones. The new ones have a different type of lock on them.
Once I'll be flying over I'll know more

That doesn't address my main point. Asics are designed to do one thing and one thing only, the sha256 asics are designed to hash one way, you can't bruteforce to get the original data with those asics.

I unlock phones every so often when someone needs one, or I need a little extra cash. Do you do know how many older phones I have unlocked compared to newer models? A LOT of older phones, its highly unlikely someone would go and pay retail + a contract for a new phone only to need it unlocked for another carrier.

[crazyivan]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

[suchmoon]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

[rdyoung]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

[bobsav2121]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

Go to their website it's explained in plain English !

[MOB]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Did you miss my post?

Josh stated that the Zenpool income is primarily based upon leasing or renting pools to 3rd parties.

Then mining BTC, scrypt, scrypt-N, and day trading also all go into generating Zenpool payouts.

So while increased mining difficulty would be a factor, if we take Josh's words at face value, then they would be only a small factor in Zenpool's payouts.

[suchmoon]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

a zenhash made .0006 as well...so if the prime makes the same...wth?

Yes, ZenHashlet and PrimeHashlet are paid the same (assuming you point PrimeHashlet to ZenPool, which is the only option than makes sense).

There is supposedly some future magic coming for PrimeHashlet, which is why the price is different.

[demme]

Query to the hashlet miners..

Put in a support request asking them for the Coins and Blocks that your miner found.

They should be able to provide this.

Also put in a request for them to display one or two days after - which coins they were mining, and the blocks they had found.

They should be able to provide this.

.....

Or... maybe they can just put in their BUY/SELL sheet from the exchanges that they day-trade on with their trained business people...

I guess u havent read 1 post about how the hashlet works

Good luck to you in the future!

[rdyoung]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Did you miss my post?

Josh stated that the Zenpool income is primarily based upon leasing or renting pools to 3rd parties.

Then mining BTC, scrypt, scrypt-N, and day trading also all go into generating Zenpool payouts.

So while increased mining difficulty would be a factor, if we take Josh's words at face value, then they would be only a small factor in Zenpool's payouts.

No I didn't miss your post. Did you miss mine? Joshes answers to the questions reminds of me a line from BL2. I fought a shark in a bow tie, Who was wearing the bow tie, me or the shark? Yes.

Josh is basically utilizing every possible avenue for money generation, but no one successfully divides up their investments like that. They are also paying 11%/annum for held balances in zencloud, that is a sign that they need the money to stick around, they don't want people pulling it else they run out of funds to pay for "zenpool"

The renting option is dubious to me because who in their right mind is going to pay 50%+ more than nicehash, betarigs, etc is paying out. Not to mention there is no proof that the vaultbreakers are even in joshes hands.

[Flep182]

That doesn't address my main point. Asics are designed to do one thing and one thing only, the sha256 asics are designed to hash one way, you can't bruteforce to get the original data with those asics.

I unlock phones every so often when someone needs one, or I need a little extra cash. Do you do know how many older phones I have unlocked compared to newer models? A LOT of older phones, its highly unlikely someone would go and pay retail + a contract for a new phone only to need it unlocked for another carrier.

As far as that friend investigated there is a chance that they'll work. Rather have the jalapeno's help him then collecting dust with me

Regarding older/newer phones, you're in a different telecoms market. He's doing 1000 brand new phones at once or similar size batches. Old phones he almost never gets

[rdyoung]

That doesn't address my main point. Asics are designed to do one thing and one thing only, the sha256 asics are designed to hash one way, you can't bruteforce to get the original data with those asics.

I unlock phones every so often when someone needs one, or I need a little extra cash. Do you do know how many older phones I have unlocked compared to newer models? A LOT of older phones, its highly unlikely someone would go and pay retail + a contract for a new phone only to need it unlocked for another carrier.

As far as that friend investigated there is a chance that they'll work. Rather have the jalapeno's help him then collecting dust with me

Regarding older/newer phones, you're in a different telecoms market. He's doing 1000 brand new phones at once or similar size batches. Old phones he almost never gets

I am thinking your friend has no clue how the asics work/are designed. Do a google search for cracking passwords, anything else with sha256 asics and you will find loads of people getting the same answer, it does one thing only, when thats not needed it becomes a heater/paperweight.

[MOB]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Did you miss my post?

Josh stated that the Zenpool income is primarily based upon leasing or renting pools to 3rd parties.

Then mining BTC, scrypt, scrypt-N, and day trading also all go into generating Zenpool payouts.

So while increased mining difficulty would be a factor, if we take Josh's words at face value, then they would be only a small factor in Zenpool's payouts.

No I didn't miss your post. Did you miss mine? Joshes answers to the questions reminds of me a line from BL2. I fought a shark in a bow tie, Who was wearing the bow tie, me or the shark? Yes.

Josh is basically utilizing every possible avenue for money generation, but no one successfully divides up their investments like that. They are also paying 11%/annum for held balances in zencloud, that is a sign that they need the money to stick around, they don't want people pulling it else they run out of funds to pay for "zenpool"

The renting option is dubious to me because who in their right mind is going to pay 50%+ more than nicehash, betarigs, etc is paying out. Not to mention there is no proof that the vaultbreakers are even in joshes hands.

I completely agree that it should be treated with a grain of salt, but unless this is a pure Ponzi (and even then) I think it is a safe assumption that they are day trading with funds.  If Josh is telling the truth, then they are.  If it is a Ponzi, and everything he says is a lie, then why not trade anyway and go for even larger profits, plus the potential to keep the game going longer.

As far as pool rentals goes, I have no idea how to interpret that in a way that makes sense.  The day trading I believe.

[FlexHash]

As much as I hate to admit it, Flex has a point somewhere in the middle of this troll hunt. Remember how GAW publicly called out Gridseed back in April? Or how all Gen A troubles were blamed on Zeus/Terry? If that's how they deal with their partners it's much more likely that they pissed off all of their suppliers and were left without hardware than them being able to produce a 28nm miner with specs far beyond any existing 28nm mining hardware in record time and in huge capacities.

Thank you.  I hope some people won't think we are the same person.

[rdyoung]

So what is the difference between ordinary and these pro hashlets and what is expected ROI on them? How much do you get paid per day?

"ordinary" get paid less, "prime" gets paid ~50% more. ROI is anyone's guess since we don't know anything about the impact of e.g. rising hashrate/difficulty or other typical mining risks. 1 MH/s Prime currently gets about 0.0005-0.0006 BTC per day after fees.

Don't forget its also possible that they aren't mining at all. Hopefully they are doing some kind of day trading or something, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Did you miss my post?

Josh stated that the Zenpool income is primarily based upon leasing or renting pools to 3rd parties.

Then mining BTC, scrypt, scrypt-N, and day trading also all go into generating Zenpool payouts.

So while increased mining difficulty would be a factor, if we take Josh's words at face value, then they would be only a small factor in Zenpool's payouts.

No I didn't miss your post. Did you miss mine? Joshes answers to the questions reminds of me a line from BL2. I fought a shark in a bow tie, Who was wearing the bow tie, me or the shark? Yes.

Josh is basically utilizing every possible avenue for money generation, but no one successfully divides up their investments like that. They are also paying 11%/annum for held balances in zencloud, that is a sign that they need the money to stick around, they don't want people pulling it else they run out of funds to pay for "zenpool"

The renting option is dubious to me because who in their right mind is going to pay 50%+ more than nicehash, betarigs, etc is paying out. Not to mention there is no proof that the vaultbreakers are even in joshes hands.

I completely agree that it should be treated with a grain of salt, but unless this is a pure Ponzi (and even then) I think it is a safe assumption that they are day trading with funds.  If Josh is telling the truth, then they are.  If it is a Ponzi, and everything he says is a lie, then why not trade anyway and go for even larger profits, plus the potential to keep the game going longer.

As far as pool rentals goes, I have no idea how to interpret that in a way that makes sense.  The day trading I believe.

Here is one of the addresses withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Something else to add to the fire. They are now paying hashpoints for upvotes in the new forum. NOTE : 1 HP=100satoshis, IE 0.00000100btc
While you can't withdraw the points, you can use them to buy new hashlets. Take what you will from this info.

[suchmoon]

Here is the address withdrawals from zen come from.
https://blockchain.info/address/16GcxcPVmZyKiRap3hmY7u5fHkDKnAjduJ

If you look through the transactions there aren't any large transactions being moved in/out, its all funds coming in (likely from hashlet purchases) and going out, withdrawals from zencloud.
This supports the straight ponzi theory. Look at the b.mine derivative on havelock, (not saying its a ponzi, I know what b.mine is) with the difficulty increasing and earnings dropping, you can theoretically keep a cryptomining ponzi going for quite sometime.

Aside from potentially poor money management practices (why mix sales and payouts) it doesn't really show much. This could be one of many accounts. If it was the only one it would be really scary, only 50k USD remaining 

But there are credit card sales, hashpoints/ZenCloud internal sales, etc. I doubt we can get a full picture from outside.