GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[wdl1908]

Thing is, this is THE wallet. And I have posted before, in business you move money around.
Plus, just how much money do you think they are bringing in via ltc and doge? Likely nowhere near as much as they bring in from btc/usd.

Lets make a big assumption here, lets say josh wasn't full of shit when he said they rent out hashing power to third parties.
If they made a business deal with someone they would likely get paid a large chunk of bitcoin or usd at once. If it was usd it would need to be converted into btc for payouts, if it was btc we would expect to see some large funding deposits to that wallet to cover payouts.

The same money movement would also apply to some form of daytrading. We should see funds going into an exchange address and then back out to cover withdrawals. You can't invest money that doesn't move.

Those of you not seeing how its poor money management to leave it all in one wallet have never run a business. Unless you want your business to fail, you have track all funds incoming and outgoing. You also have to keep funds seperate to help in the accounting. BTC makes it easy to keep funds split up. Have 1 address for "investors" and another for payouts. Even pbmining which may or may not be a ponzi has different addresses for deposits and a dedicated address for payouts.

Give me good reason why THIS wallet is a problem? Never heard of petty cash. in bitcoin terms HOT WALLET.

Why do you need to have big transactions coming in or out when the smaller transactions cover the load?

When a petty cash goes over a certain limit money is transferred out to the bank (COLD WALLET). When it is low on fund money is transferred in from the bank. (COLD WALLET)

So why would you transfer big chunk through petty cash? You never DO.

So what you are saying is that a petty cash (something every company has) is a ponzi?

[rdyoung]

Thing is, this is THE wallet. And I have posted before, in business you move money around.
Plus, just how much money do you think they are bringing in via ltc and doge? Likely nowhere near as much as they bring in from btc/usd.

Lets make a big assumption here, lets say josh wasn't full of shit when he said they rent out hashing power to third parties.
If they made a business deal with someone they would likely get paid a large chunk of bitcoin or usd at once. If it was usd it would need to be converted into btc for payouts, if it was btc we would expect to see some large funding deposits to that wallet to cover payouts.

The same money movement would also apply to some form of daytrading. We should see funds going into an exchange address and then back out to cover withdrawals. You can't invest money that doesn't move.

Those of you not seeing how its poor money management to leave it all in one wallet have never run a business. Unless you want your business to fail, you have track all funds incoming and outgoing. You also have to keep funds seperate to help in the accounting. BTC makes it easy to keep funds split up. Have 1 address for "investors" and another for payouts. Even pbmining which may or may not be a ponzi has different addresses for deposits and a dedicated address for payouts.

Give me good reason why THIS wallet is a problem? Never heard of petty cash. in bitcoin terms HOT WALLET.

Why do you need to have big transactions coming in or out when the smaller transactions cover the load?

When a petty cash goes over a certain limit money is transferred out to the bank (COLD WALLET). When it is low on fund money is transferred in from the bank. (COLD WALLET)

So why would you transfer big chunk through petty cash? You never DO.

So what you are saying is that a petty cash (something every company has) is a ponzi?

Do you see what your saying happening here? No you don't.
Do you think any business big or small uses the same checking account for supplies as well as payroll? NO They don't, not if they know what they are doing.
I am done trying to explain business money management to people here. Now we have people probably coming over scamtalk to argue with me about this.

[wdl1908]

Do you think any business big or small uses the same checking account for supplies as well as payroll? NO They don't, not if they know what they are doing.

You make my point for me.

[suchmoon]

New forum software is incredibly laggy.

No kidding... it's slower than the old one, which is quite an achievement. Great upgrade

[rdyoung]

Do you think any business big or small uses the same checking account for supplies as well as payroll? NO They don't, not if they know what they are doing.

You make my point for me.

Apparently we interpret the data differently. I see 1+1 and get 2, you apparently get 11.

ALL Deposits/withdrawals from zencloud go through that address. There are no large transactions to and from another checking account so to speak.
Its also likely that payments for purchases from gaw get routed to that address as well. How is ALL btc flowing into one account in small batches equal to what your saying?

[suchmoon]

Do you think any business big or small uses the same checking account for supplies as well as payroll? NO They don't, not if they know what they are doing.

You make my point for me.

Apparently we interpret the data differently. I see 1+1 and get 2, you apparently get 11.

ALL Deposits/withdrawals from zencloud go through that address. There are no large transactions to and from another checking account so to speak.
Its also likely that payments for purchases from gaw get routed to that address as well. How is ALL btc flowing into one account in small batches equal to what your saying?

I think the point is that we can't possibly know if it's ALL. There could be dozens of BTC and other accounts. This one is maybe for ZenCloud deposits and withdrawals only. Don't forget that purchases within ZenCloud are unlikely to be on the blockchain, and other purchases via BTC probably go through a third-party payment processor.

Besides there were some large ~20 BTC transactions in that account, could be funds going into a cold wallet.

It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

[rdyoung]

Do you think any business big or small uses the same checking account for supplies as well as payroll? NO They don't, not if they know what they are doing.

You make my point for me.

Apparently we interpret the data differently. I see 1+1 and get 2, you apparently get 11.

ALL Deposits/withdrawals from zencloud go through that address. There are no large transactions to and from another checking account so to speak.
Its also likely that payments for purchases from gaw get routed to that address as well. How is ALL btc flowing into one account in small batches equal to what your saying?

I think the point is that we can't possibly know if it's ALL. There could be dozens of BTC and other accounts. This one is maybe for ZenCloud deposits and withdrawals only. Don't forget that purchases within ZenCloud are unlikely to be on the blockchain, and other purchases via BTC probably go through a third-party payment processor.

Besides there were some large ~20 BTC transactions in that account, could be funds going into a cold wallet.

It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Follow some of the funds, the larger transactions get split up to new accounts. And now there are several coming back in from those transactions that went out. How am I the only one who sees this?

[dyask]

I did have one other payment coming from a different address, but I believe thats because it predates the change to blockchain. They were using coinbase but kept hitting api limits.

I take something very serious from this, the fact that there aren't any large transactions moving funds out to for example pay for more hardware, or exchange out to pay salaries, and no large funding transactions, it appears as though deposits are paying for withdrawals, 100% ponzi.
I could overlook this as poor money management IF and this is a big IF, we knew for a fact that there actually was hardware, if they prefunded hardware it could be logical to just keep using deposits to pay for withdrawals instead of moving money around all the time.

Alright, I am doing a load/withdrawal. The address I am sending it to is 1JYR7Q8nzHovQtSxwGnNKEtK4uZbkZKEEH

Why should all types of payments come from the same wallet?   That would be horrible money management.    You don't seem to have any valid logic here.

I am not sure how that logic is flawed. In any business money ebbs and flows, crypto mining its even more fluid. Investors give you money, that money in theory should be spent on your business. Even if gaw gets enough cash usd coming in via credit/debit purchases, they still need a source for the payouts, there should be large funding transactions from either the earnings from the mining/exchange of alts, or the unicorns that are renting the hashpower from zenpool. Since there are no large transactions, something is fishy.

Update on the load/withdrawal, it got swept into the 1Gc address almost immediately.

As money comes in from various sources it doesn't have to be put into the same wallets and it fact you shouldn't expect that it should.   There can be transfers as needed to a "hot" wallet used for payouts and withdrawals, but you shouldn't expect to be able to see very much.   If you can see everything then the CFO isn't doing his job.   In short you aren't seeing everything.  

I'm actually really confused about your point.   Are you trying to claim that GAWMiners doesn't use good money management?   Even if that is true I don't think you can claim that from one wallet.  

============= EDIT
I checked one of my purchases and it is sitting at  18asRtUha1PgcwYKBQVQKQVAM3pBVTDxww, there is only about 5 BTC in that wallet but it hasn't been comingled with the very hot wallet you are looking at.   I don't seen any of my other transactions there.   

As far as earnings from alts, they have already stated that the Hashlets are not directly mining.   So I don't understand what you are trying to prove.   There mining proceeds are probably put into other wallets.   

[ZiG]

Thing is, this is THE wallet. And I have posted before, in business you move money around.
Plus, just how much money do you think they are bringing in via ltc and doge? Likely nowhere near as much as they bring in from btc/usd.

Lets make a big assumption here, lets say josh wasn't full of shit when he said they rent out hashing power to third parties.
If they made a business deal with someone they would likely get paid a large chunk of bitcoin or usd at once. If it was usd it would need to be converted into btc for payouts, if it was btc we would expect to see some large funding deposits to that wallet to cover payouts.

The same money movement would also apply to some form of daytrading. We should see funds going into an exchange address and then back out to cover withdrawals. You can't invest money that doesn't move.

Those of you not seeing how its poor money management to leave it all in one wallet have never run a business. Unless you want your business to fail, you have track all funds incoming and outgoing. You also have to keep funds seperate to help in the accounting. BTC makes it easy to keep funds split up. Have 1 address for "investors" and another for payouts. Even pbmining which may or may not be a ponzi has different addresses for deposits and a dedicated address for payouts.

Give me good reason why THIS wallet is a problem? Never heard of petty cash. in bitcoin terms HOT WALLET.

Why do you need to have big transactions coming in or out when the smaller transactions cover the load?

When a petty cash goes over a certain limit money is transferred out to the bank (COLD WALLET). When it is low on fund money is transferred in from the bank. (COLD WALLET)

So why would you transfer big chunk through petty cash? You never DO.

So what you are saying is that a petty cash (something every company has) is a ponzi?

You, my friend is completely off track...

Petty cash is...not Ponzi...and not discussed here...OK...

Hashlet(s) ...virtual = non-existing miners = Vaporware = Vaultbreakers = NOTHING, sold for real assets = money = BTC ...etc ...and paying back with your own money some $0.20 - 0.25 per day ...THIS IS PONZI...

Capisco...

ZiG

[Flep182]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

[demme]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

Nope... not me

Also I cant even log in to the forums, and they say I need to click "forgot password", which doesnt even work?? I click  "reset password" but nothing happens.

[dyask]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

Nope... not me

Also I cant even log in to the forums, and they say I need to click "forgot password", which doesnt even work?? I click  "reset password" but nothing happens.

It worked for me but it took multiple tries.   Once I was on and verified my email I was actually able to make a couple posts.   However, since then I haven't been successful at posting or editing a post.   I can read posts thought, however you don't have to log in to do that.   So I would say it doesn't work very well for a forum.

[demme]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

Nope... not me

Also I cant even log in to the forums, and they say I need to click "forgot password", which doesnt even work?? I click  "reset password" but nothing happens.

It worked for me but it took multiple tries.   Once I was on and verified my email I was actually able to make a couple posts.   However, since then I haven't been successful at posting or editing a post.   I can read posts thought, however you don't have to log in to do that.   So I would say it doesn't work very well for a forum.

Yeah it actually works for me now, after multiple tries.

Still cant edit my profile tho, very weird... this is probably the worst forum I have seen

[verloren]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

Nope... not me

Also I cant even log in to the forums, and they say I need to click "forgot password", which doesnt even work?? I click  "reset password" but nothing happens.

It worked for me but it took multiple tries.   Once I was on and verified my email I was actually able to make a couple posts.   However, since then I haven't been successful at posting or editing a post.   I can read posts thought, however you don't have to log in to do that.   So I would say it doesn't work very well for a forum.

Stupid system requires email confirmation to post.

[dyask]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

Nope... not me

Also I cant even log in to the forums, and they say I need to click "forgot password", which doesnt even work?? I click  "reset password" but nothing happens.

It worked for me but it took multiple tries.   Once I was on and verified my email I was actually able to make a couple posts.   However, since then I haven't been successful at posting or editing a post.   I can read posts thought, however you don't have to log in to do that.   So I would say it doesn't work very well for a forum.

Stupid system requires email confirmation to post.

I did that and was able to post a few times but that was hours ago.  I appears to be load related.   I'm in Japan and this software doesn't appear to scale at all.

[chmick]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

nope
I received advertising by mail from gaw (so I know their mailer is working)

But no free activation code .

[arorts]

Summing up what we have learned for Zen/GAWMiners/Josh email.
Hashlets are some kind of virtual shares of a larger mining/business operation.    The yield of Hashlets is currently tied to a pool, but at least for the Prime Hashlets (most expensive) that could change at any point in the future.    A Hashlets seems to have some software associated with it as seen in the variable hashing rate.

Money taken in form Hashlets sales isn’t used to directly play out daily yields, although that may be more of an accounting gimmick in some sense.   Anyway, it seems likely that those funds are used to invest in the various mining operations.   These operations produce the income that is paid back to the Hashlet owners.  Various operations are in part:
-   From at least scrypt, scrypt-N and bitcoin mining;
-   Crypto Currency day trading;
-   Mostly from leasing out hashing power to other companies.  

The amount income paid back to the Hashlet owner is currently limited by a pool yield and reduced by a maintenance fee.   The maintenance fee is could be related to the actual cost of mining hardware used in the profit generation for GAWMiners or it could be just an accounting expense used to reduce gains.  

Slowly we are starting to get a picture of what these Hashlets are. Personally I don’t have a problem with virtual mining as I have done very well with B.Mine, B.Sell and B.Exch on HavelockInvestments.   I haven’t done well with real mining.  

I would  discount the "day trading" source of "revenue" from that list.  I have personal experience day trading for several years and know other traders and hedge fund managers. Not only is it an extremely hard profession but I seriously doubt any person would possess so many simultaneous skills in so many levels. Not to mention volatility has been low but even after the last price moves, this would require massive investments. Unless he has previous professional currency trading experience in Wall Street or is one of the 1%-5% of successful traders or he is a genius with an 180 IQ, I don't believe this is a realistic not to mention minimally sustainable source of cash flow for payouts.  

By the same token, it's statistically probable that he might also run the late shift for drinks as a bartender in a local bar collecting tips in bitcoins. hehe.


We might probably add instead professional services revenue from cryptocurrency software or hardware development consulting to the list. Now that's at least more realistic if he has some experience on that that we don't know of.

[verloren]

Has anyone already received the free hashlet that they're handing out to all existing customers?

Nope... not me

Also I cant even log in to the forums, and they say I need to click "forgot password", which doesnt even work?? I click  "reset password" but nothing happens.

It worked for me but it took multiple tries.   Once I was on and verified my email I was actually able to make a couple posts.   However, since then I haven't been successful at posting or editing a post.   I can read posts thought, however you don't have to log in to do that.   So I would say it doesn't work very well for a forum.

Stupid system requires email confirmation to post.

I did that and was able to post a few times but that was hours ago.  I appears to be load related.   I'm in Japan and this software doesn't appear to scale at all.

Posting seems to be hit and miss. Sometimes I can post, sometimes the system locks up.

[dekodoge]

so the new hashlets were just to make people think they have a choice and the old miners are now $30

WOW just WOW.

[dyask]

Summing up what we have learned for Zen/GAWMiners/Josh email.
Hashlets are some kind of virtual shares of a larger mining/business operation.    The yield of Hashlets is currently tied to a pool, but at least for the Prime Hashlets (most expensive) that could change at any point in the future.    A Hashlets seems to have some software associated with it as seen in the variable hashing rate.

Money taken in form Hashlets sales isn’t used to directly play out daily yields, although that may be more of an accounting gimmick in some sense.   Anyway, it seems likely that those funds are used to invest in the various mining operations.   These operations produce the income that is paid back to the Hashlet owners.  Various operations are in part:
-   From at least scrypt, scrypt-N and bitcoin mining;
-   Crypto Currency day trading;
-   Mostly from leasing out hashing power to other companies.  

The amount income paid back to the Hashlet owner is currently limited by a pool yield and reduced by a maintenance fee.   The maintenance fee is could be related to the actual cost of mining hardware used in the profit generation for GAWMiners or it could be just an accounting expense used to reduce gains.  

Slowly we are starting to get a picture of what these Hashlets are. Personally I don’t have a problem with virtual mining as I have done very well with B.Mine, B.Sell and B.Exch on HavelockInvestments.   I haven’t done well with real mining.  

I would  discount the "day trading" source of "revenue" from that list.  I have personal experience day trading for several years and know other traders and hedge fund managers. Not only is it an extremely hard profession but I seriously doubt any person would possess so many simultaneous skills in so many levels. Not to mention volatility has been low but even after the last price moves, this would require massive investments. Unless he has previous professional currency trading experience in Wall Street or is one of the 1%-5% of successful traders or he is a genius with an 180 IQ, I don't believe this is a realistic not to mention minimally sustainable source of cash flow for payouts.  

By the same token, it's statistically probable that he might also run the late shift for drinks as a bartender in a local bar collecting tips in bitcoins. hehe.


We might probably add instead professional services revenue from cryptocurrency software or hardware development consulting to the list. Now that's at least more realistic if he has some experience on that that we don't know of.

I don't know what they mean by day trading, but it should be just now selling an alt coin while they are heavily mining and letting the price drift up before dumping or something like that.   It could also be more active pump and dump.   I think though it would make sense to take advantage of mining.