GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[xephyr]

Give it a few hours. I have noticed that once the payouts are posted takes a while for your balance to update. Don't worry about it.

[demme]

Anyone else not receive their payout in Zenpool today?  Both of my accounts show it as posted, but neither actually have the BTC.

Same for me last 3-4 days, just wait 2-4 hours and it's there.. voila.

[arorts]

Already read lots of posts and it seems like nobody knows how payouts are calculated. What I'm extremely afraid of is to put money in Hashlets and experience the same of what happened to my Scrypt miners: payouts fell dramatically in a matter of days and never ROI'd. At least with BTC, we can minimally observe and forecast upcoming difficulty.

What guarantees that the pool contracts cited as one of the source of those payouts will continue to be honored by those who sign them it up until the point there's positive ROI? Maybe they were paid in advance to cover a long contract duration so as to guarantee payouts? That would seem unlikely and highly risky by those people.

Can we conclusively say that Hashlet payouts are better than BTC payouts per $1 invested?

[rdyoung]

Already read lots of posts and it seems like nobody knows how payouts are calculated. What I'm extremely afraid of is to put money in Hashlets and experience the same of what happened to my Scrypt miners: payouts fell dramatically in a matter of days and never ROI'd. At least with BTC, we can minimally observe and forecast upcoming difficulty.

What guarantees that the pool contracts cited as one of the source of those payouts will continue to be honored by those who sign them it up until the point there's positive ROI?

Can we conclusively say that Hashlet payouts are better than BTC payouts per $1 invested?

There never were pool contracts. The pools used are in name only, they don't mean a thing. They are not mining on those pools and if you read what josh has said, they aren't even mining in there supposed zenpool. They are simultaneously doing everything you possibly can do to make money from money, it is beyond reason and another reason a few of us think the hashlets are running on a ponzi type payout scheme.

[Flep182]

Payouts are all in here, "4 hours ago". So could be between 3 and 5

[suchmoon]

Already read lots of posts and it seems like nobody knows how payouts are calculated. What I'm extremely afraid of is to put money in Hashlets and experience the same of what happened to my Scrypt miners: payouts fell dramatically in a matter of days and never ROI'd. At least with BTC, we can minimally observe and forecast upcoming difficulty.

What guarantees that the pool contracts cited as one of the source of those payouts will continue to be honored by those who sign them it up until the point there's positive ROI? Maybe they were paid in advance to cover a long contract duration so as to guarantee payouts? That would seem unlikely and highly risky by those people.

Can we conclusively say that Hashlet payouts are better than BTC payouts per $1 invested?

tl;dr: No

We simply don't know what risk factors are involved with hashlets. For example if you buy a SHA256 miner there are several variables to consider:

Purchase price - known in advance
Maintenance/electricity cost - known in advance, unlikely to change
Mining revenue (difficulty)
Bitcoin exchange rate
Risk of equipment failure


With hashlets we have:

Purchase price - known in advance
Maintenance/electricity cost - known ATM, may change
Mining revenue (difficulty) - ?
Bitcoin exchange rate
Risk of equipment failure - none
Risk of the whole thing going south - ?

We don't even know if difficulty has any effect on earnings, and if it does, which coin's difficulty that would be? Bitcoin? Litecoin? If there are any other revenue risks (private rentals whatever that means) then we are even more in the dark.

We also don't know which way the maintenance cost is going to go, presumably down based on promises, but T&C says "up or down", and even if it always goes down it doesn't mean much without having any insight into the revenue side.

One thing hashlets have over physical miners is the risk of equipment failure, which I'm assuming would be none (or covered by the maintenance fee or whatever).

[SDRebel]

Query to the hashlet miners..

Put in a support request asking them for the Coins and Blocks that your miner found.

They should be able to provide this.

Also put in a request for them to display one or two days after - which coins they were mining, and the blocks they had found.

They should be able to provide this.

.....

Or... maybe they can just put in their BUY/SELL sheet from the exchanges that they day-trade on with their trained business people...

they have said that they will not provide it as that's what gives them advantage.
obviously, that could go either way, but this is what inpires distrust in a lot of people

[arorts]

Already read lots of posts and it seems like nobody knows how payouts are calculated. What I'm extremely afraid of is to put money in Hashlets and experience the same of what happened to my Scrypt miners: payouts fell dramatically in a matter of days and never ROI'd. At least with BTC, we can minimally observe and forecast upcoming difficulty.

What guarantees that the pool contracts cited as one of the source of those payouts will continue to be honored by those who sign them it up until the point there's positive ROI? Maybe they were paid in advance to cover a long contract duration so as to guarantee payouts? That would seem unlikely and highly risky by those people.

Can we conclusively say that Hashlet payouts are better than BTC payouts per $1 invested?

Are there any guaranteed contracts on the market? I highly doubt it. There was a thread made by a company that supposedly holds the equivalent of your investment in silver but it comes down to the same point where you have to trust them with your money.

BTC investment? I tried that before and bought some when the price was close to $600. Everybody kept saying that it's really cheap   So my payouts from BTC investment are negative.

Nobody "has" to trust them. This is a little bit more than your regular faith. Sure. I can trust them more as I collect some minimal information first so I can base my decision on with a little more clarity just like with the risk of any other standard vendor. Hashlet is quite unique as we all know.

Here you are not buying BTC, you are MINING so that's an entirely different animal. I'm just referring about 2 different mining scenarios, not buying vs mining vs something else.

[rdyoung]

Already read lots of posts and it seems like nobody knows how payouts are calculated. What I'm extremely afraid of is to put money in Hashlets and experience the same of what happened to my Scrypt miners: payouts fell dramatically in a matter of days and never ROI'd. At least with BTC, we can minimally observe and forecast upcoming difficulty.

What guarantees that the pool contracts cited as one of the source of those payouts will continue to be honored by those who sign them it up until the point there's positive ROI? Maybe they were paid in advance to cover a long contract duration so as to guarantee payouts? That would seem unlikely and highly risky by those people.

Can we conclusively say that Hashlet payouts are better than BTC payouts per $1 invested?

Are there any guaranteed contracts on the market? I highly doubt it. There was a thread made by a company that supposedly holds the equivalent of your investment in silver but it comes down to the same point where you have to trust them with your money.

BTC investment? I tried that before and bought some when the price was close to $600. Everybody kept saying that it's really cheap   So my payouts from BTC investment are negative.

Nobody "has" to trust them. This is a little bit more than your regular faith. Sure. I can trust them more as I collect some minimal information first so I can base my decision on with a little more clarity just like with the risk of any other standard vendor. Hashlet is quite unique as we all know.

Here you are not buying BTC, you are MINING so that's an entirely different animal. I'm just referring about 2 different mining scenarios, not buying vs mining vs something else.

Except all signs point to WE are NOT mining. IF we take josh at face value, he is renting out the hardware and someone is willing to pay 50%+ over the going rate for that hardware. So its a LOT more than your average faith. Take pyramining for example, he got hit hard by the diff going vertical when asics hit and has been unable to keep up, I have a decent amount of money invested with him, but when he has been around to converse and answer questions he has been extremely open about how things work. While breaking even with him is taking alot longer than I would like, he has built up trust through action. Josh has done the reverse, he wouldn't answer questions and when you prod too hard you get banned for something innocuous so they can act like that was the reason. He finally did answer but he checked off every possible income stream, it doesnt add up.

[cloverme]

rdyoung gets it, these gaw people are up to no good.  I'm still waiting on my physical miners to get shipped to me, tech support is in suspended animation "Awaiting your Reply since last 4 days 2 hrs" asking for a tracking number.

As a side note, from another thread, I contacted their hosting provider Shopify, they've had multiple serious complaints about them. One guy I spoke to on the phone said they've had the authorities contact them as well, which he said was unusual given that they didn't have any problems with GAW until about a month ago.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to help out with payments, as the site is in violation of our Terms of Service, section B.5 ("Prohibited Businesses"). Specifically, we are unable to accept payments for Crypto Currency Services as described here: http://www.shopify.com/legal/terms-payments-us

These restrictions come from our banking partners, and so sadly we have no flexibility here. It's frustrating for us to have to turn away businesses, but in this case our hands are tied.

Regards,
Christopher
Risk Operations // Shopify

[rdyoung]

rdyoung gets it, these gaw people are up to no good.  I'm still waiting on my physical miners to get shipped to me, tech support is in suspended animation "Awaiting your Reply since last 4 days 2 hrs" asking for a tracking number.

As a side note, from another thread, I contacted their hosting provider Shopify, they've had multiple serious complaints about them. One guy I spoke to on the phone said they've had the authorities contact them as well, which he said was unusual given that they didn't have any problems with GAW until about a month ago.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to help out with payments, as the site is in violation of our Terms of Service, section B.5 ("Prohibited Businesses"). Specifically, we are unable to accept payments for Crypto Currency Services as described here: http://www.shopify.com/legal/terms-payments-us

These restrictions come from our banking partners, and so sadly we have no flexibility here. It's frustrating for us to have to turn away businesses, but in this case our hands are tied.

Regards,
Christopher
Risk Operations // Shopify

This is likely why they are moving everything into zencloud.

As to their support, I think they have only 2 people running it. 1 Amber seems to want to help people, the other one, Brian, not sure what his deal is. I have had to rma 2 of the furies I bought, 1 of them ended up going in circles because I mailed it to the address at the end of their rma process, when I finally got it sorted, the one I got back works like a charm. The 2nd one however is a different story, I think brian got it it work for a minute or so, so he stuck a QA sticker on it and mailed it back. When I contacted them again that it wasn't working, he wanted me to flash a different os on my pi to see if it would work. I refused because starminer is running the other 2 like clockwork. After a decent rant of a response he sent me another rma shipping label so I could mail it back. I made sure to mark this one in a way so I can tell if I get it back instead of a new one.

[xephyr]

rdyoung gets it, these gaw people are up to no good.  I'm still waiting on my physical miners to get shipped to me, tech support is in suspended animation "Awaiting your Reply since last 4 days 2 hrs" asking for a tracking number.

As a side note, from another thread, I contacted their hosting provider Shopify, they've had multiple serious complaints about them. One guy I spoke to on the phone said they've had the authorities contact them as well, which he said was unusual given that they didn't have any problems with GAW until about a month ago.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to help out with payments, as the site is in violation of our Terms of Service, section B.5 ("Prohibited Businesses"). Specifically, we are unable to accept payments for Crypto Currency Services as described here: http://www.shopify.com/legal/terms-payments-us

These restrictions come from our banking partners, and so sadly we have no flexibility here. It's frustrating for us to have to turn away businesses, but in this case our hands are tied.

Regards,
Christopher
Risk Operations // Shopify

If GAWMiners is in violation of Shopify's TOS why are they still allowed to use Shopify to process payments?

[cloverme]

They aren't... I was told they were asked to use a 3rd party gateway service such as "Authorize.net" rather than "Shopify payments" for processing credit cards.  Unfortunately, my payment was processed with "Shopify Payments" which was supposedly disconnected from their store. I was also told they've been "put on warning" about their store in general, but I wasn't told any specifics about what that meant. Your guess is as good as mine.

[NuShrike]

The current visible red-flag is the loosey-goosey variable payout schedule.

The fact it keeps sliding later and later, and doesn't pay out  (until hours later) even when it's listed as "paid-out" is basically the equivalent of payouts "have stopped", imo.

This resembles that "mortgage derivatives" that just recently hosed a lot of people. Just doesn't give off the stringent accounting system reputation required for such a financial set up.

[cloverme]

The current visible red-flag is the loosey-goosey variable payout schedule.

The fact it keeps sliding later and later, and doesn't pay out  (until hours later) even when it's listed as "paid-out" is basically the equivalent of payouts "have stopped", imo.

This resembles that "mortgage derivatives" that just recently hosed a lot of people. Just doesn't give off the stringent accounting system reputation required for such a financial set up.

I can confirm that as well, payouts slip, sometimes for multiple days. They've given out "free" miners to customers (1-2 mh/s) to make up for any issues, which is another issue. Suppose you have 500 customers and you give out 500 mh/s... how does that impact your payout?  The whole thing is odd.

[rdyoung]

Already read lots of posts and it seems like nobody knows how payouts are calculated. What I'm extremely afraid of is to put money in Hashlets and experience the same of what happened to my Scrypt miners: payouts fell dramatically in a matter of days and never ROI'd. At least with BTC, we can minimally observe and forecast upcoming difficulty.

What guarantees that the pool contracts cited as one of the source of those payouts will continue to be honored by those who sign them it up until the point there's positive ROI? Maybe they were paid in advance to cover a long contract duration so as to guarantee payouts? That would seem unlikely and highly risky by those people.

Can we conclusively say that Hashlet payouts are better than BTC payouts per $1 invested?

Are there any guaranteed contracts on the market? I highly doubt it. There was a thread made by a company that supposedly holds the equivalent of your investment in silver but it comes down to the same point where you have to trust them with your money.

BTC investment? I tried that before and bought some when the price was close to $600. Everybody kept saying that it's really cheap   So my payouts from BTC investment are negative.

Nobody "has" to trust them. This is a little bit more than your regular faith. Sure. I can trust them more as I collect some minimal information first so I can base my decision on with a little more clarity just like with the risk of any other standard vendor. Hashlet is quite unique as we all know.

Here you are not buying BTC, you are MINING so that's an entirely different animal. I'm just referring about 2 different mining scenarios, not buying vs mining vs something else.

How is it different from what CEX offers? I'm talking about trust here.
Any cloud mining company can fail just like Mt.Gox did so I'd say you need some trust to invest.

The big difference is a couple of things. CEX actually has a page that lists the current status of all of their hardware in their centers. Plus, if you have a large of amount of hashing power you can convert it into hardware, it won't show up in a p&p fashion like an s2 or 3, you need some knowledge and experience to get it up and running, but you have the choice.

Gaw/Zen has several times said one thing and then later reversed that information and acted like this is hows it been all along.

The other big difference between them is cex is backed by bitfury. Bitfury is a well known and respected mining hardware manufacturer. If what others on here have said is true, gaw burned their connections with the manufacturers they did have.

[bitgeek]

As a side note, from another thread, I contacted their hosting provider Shopify, they've had multiple serious complaints about them. One guy I spoke to on the phone said they've had the authorities contact them as well, which he said was unusual given that they didn't have any problems with GAW until about a month ago.

Yeah right, can't believe a shopify employee just gave all that info to a random caller. I call bullshit on this one.

[rdyoung]

The current visible red-flag is the loosey-goosey variable payout schedule.

The fact it keeps sliding later and later, and doesn't pay out  (until hours later) even when it's listed as "paid-out" is basically the equivalent of payouts "have stopped", imo.

This resembles that "mortgage derivatives" that just recently hosed a lot of people. Just doesn't give off the stringent accounting system reputation required for such a financial set up.

I can confirm that as well, payouts slip, sometimes for multiple days. They've given out "free" miners to customers (1-2 mh/s) to make up for any issues, which is another issue. Suppose you have 500 customers and you give out 500 mh/s... how does that impact your payout?  The whole thing is odd.

I haven't seen payments "slipping". What is likely happening is their database is getting so large that its taking longer and longer for the payment script to run. Its obvious that their "developers" have no clue what they are doing.

[rdyoung]

As a side note, from another thread, I contacted their hosting provider Shopify, they've had multiple serious complaints about them. One guy I spoke to on the phone said they've had the authorities contact them as well, which he said was unusual given that they didn't have any problems with GAW until about a month ago.

Yeah right, can't believe a shopify employee just gave all that info to a random caller. I call bullshit on this one.

I concur, I can see them having a note in gaws file saying complaints. How would that 1 employee know the police had contacted them? Police are going to contact their boss or their bosses boss, not someone on the front lines dealing in customer service.

[wdl1908]

The current visible red-flag is the loosey-goosey variable payout schedule.

The fact it keeps sliding later and later, and doesn't pay out  (until hours later) even when it's listed as "paid-out" is basically the equivalent of payouts "have stopped", imo.

This resembles that "mortgage derivatives" that just recently hosed a lot of people. Just doesn't give off the stringent accounting system reputation required for such a financial set up.

Hmm let me try to explain what i think is happening to their payout system.

The payout is calculated on a periode 0:00 to 23:59 UTC.

The payout run starts at around 12:00 UTC the following day and takes several hours to complete. Also the more hashlets are bought the longer the payout run takes.

The payout run takes one hashlet and calculates what amount needs to be transferred. when that is done it is posted in the user account "Latest Activity" BUT not in the balance of the user.

When all hashlets are calculated THEN the "Latest Activity" is summed and placed in the balance of the user.