[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[sellbuy]

A different question:

Would some of you Burst-people mind to explain in my thread, how energy-saving your technology proof of capacity (POC) mining is? I would like someone to compare it to POS and POW:

"Which is the most environmentally friendly, energy-efficient altcoin?":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=982957.0

For good estimation, we would need a good calculation, of course, and for proof we would need some measurements and extrapolation...

But maybe we could get an idea.

Thank you.

Proof of Capacity energy usage compared to Proof of Stake

You still need a computer and hard drive running to power Proof of Stake... but let's say that you do add 4096 drives to that computer, you could split your plots up across thousands of hard drives, and the only turn on two hard drives at a time per block.  With POC2.. you'll only need to turn on 1 hard drives, one that stores signatures, one that stores the current scoop being read.

And you turn two on for two seconds per 4 minute block(granted, I expect we'll lower block times sooner or later.). So a hard drive would normally consume 10 Watts but we can say it only consumes 2/4*60th of this since it's only on for 2 seconds per 4 minutes.  So this means that it basically consumes 0.83 % of the amount of energy as one hard drive.  Or 0.0167 Watts extra for two drives.  Let's assume there is other over head or you are keeping them on longer or something.. and let's say that all these drives use 1 W to run.  

Ahahah 1 hdd of 4096... And reading speed will beeee....ZERO?  
Anyway hdd in sleep mode taking much amount of power, plus time to wake up is about 10 sec.

[bobafett]

Update and News: www.burstcoin.de

>> New Feature: German Plotting Guide for Linux is now available.
Adding tomorrow the Mining guide with dccts new super fast miner :-)
------
Help me to keep up the page and enhance the information for the german community. Only! 64k to go in the Crowfund (now at 85%). Please do some donations!!!!

[hvidgaard]

Something else I've noticed guys. When fast blocks happen, they're won almost always with a sub 100 deadline, which doesn't make sense considering people usually don't have time to scan all their plots. Maybe it's just coincidence? I've only been watching since Blago added the winner stamp to the miner.

Also interesting, in this specific example, the same person won the block before with the same EXACT deadline. This should be extraordinarily rare to the point where it doesn't happen unless fast blocks are special?

https://i.imgur.com/FLEM6yP.jpg

My theory is, that some people out there, with a rather large farm, use a custom miner that will assume that the deadline will win and scan for the next block. This allows them to announce low deadline immediately after their previous deadline was accepted.

[mczarnek]

A different question:

Would some of you Burst-people mind to explain in my thread, how energy-saving your technology proof of capacity (POC) mining is? I would like someone to compare it to POS and POW:

"Which is the most environmentally friendly, energy-efficient altcoin?":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=982957.0

For good estimation, we would need a good calculation, of course, and for proof we would need some measurements and extrapolation...

But maybe we could get an idea.

Thank you.

Proof of Capacity energy usage compared to Proof of Stake

You still need a computer and hard drive running to power Proof of Stake... but let's say that you do add 4096 drives to that computer, you could split your plots up across thousands of hard drives, and the only turn on two hard drives at a time per block.  With POC2.. you'll only need to turn on 1 hard drives, one that stores signatures, one that stores the current scoop being read.

And you turn two on for two seconds per 4 minute block(granted, I expect we'll lower block times sooner or later.). So a hard drive would normally consume 10 Watts but we can say it only consumes 2/4*60th of this since it's only on for 2 seconds per 4 minutes.  So this means that it basically consumes 0.83 % of the amount of energy as one hard drive.  Or 0.0167 Watts extra for two drives.  Let's assume there is other over head or you are keeping them on longer or something.. and let's say that all these drives use 1 W to run. 

Ahahah 1 hdd of 4096... And reading speed will beeee....ZERO? 
Anyway hdd in sleep mode taking much amount of power, plus time to wake up is about 10 sec.

I figured you could totally turn it off right? Though you are probably right about wake up time... let me multiply by 10.  Keep in mind Google did a study that shows that it does not significantly increase the wear and tear of a drive to turn it off and on regularly. An let's face it you are only turning it on and off a few times a day, even if you reduce the number of drives plugged in to 100 or so drives.

[FakeAccount]

Something else I've noticed guys. When fast blocks happen, they're won almost always with a sub 100 deadline, which doesn't make sense considering people usually don't have time to scan all their plots. Maybe it's just coincidence? I've only been watching since Blago added the winner stamp to the miner.

Also interesting, in this specific example, the same person won the block before with the same EXACT deadline. This should be extraordinarily rare to the point where it doesn't happen unless fast blocks are special?

My theory is, that some people out there, with a rather large farm, use a custom miner that will assume that the deadline will win and scan for the next block. This allows them to announce low deadline immediately after their previous deadline was accepted.

no, this is nonsense.  the fast deadlines are real without any funny business.  it's possible to read through alot of data in 20 sec on your plots and find a deadline.
heck, I have found deadlines of: 1,2,3,6,7,12 and several in 20-30 range and then some more beyond the 20 sec range.  it's luck.
and then there are 4+ and 30-40 minute deadlines too. I have them.

edit:

see here: http://burstcoin.eu/charts/average-block-generation-time this distribution looks OK. 
although over a long period of time it will smooth out more to fit a smooth bell curve, which, looking at current graph, suggests that until some time in the future, with an unknown starting time point, we could see more blocks in the 240+ seconds generation time to smooth it out.  or this can happen slowly and randomly and it will smooth out over time. but it looks OK to me.  you are always welcome to read in the whole blockchain, and run stat analysis on generated blocks.  only after you find statistical anomalies, you can raise red flags.  without that proof, you are spewing hot air and most people actually ignore such posts.  I dunno why I responded to be honest with you.  I guess because I assume you don't know how it works (I may be totally wrong in the assumption), so trying to share some info.

[LuckyBtc]

Here was mentioned an Android wallet. I cannot find it at Google Play. Has it been withdrawn?

I guess you're trying to find the Android wallet which was never available on Google Playstore?. You can find the wallet info or download link from the below link.(Source code still not available i would be very careful while using this app or wallet)

https://burstforum.com/index.php?threads/official-thread-burst-info-app-for-android.438/

[Chesteer]

Here was mentioned an Android wallet. I cannot find it at Google Play. Has it been withdrawn?

I guess you're trying to find the Android wallet which was never available on Google Playstore?. You can find the wallet info or download link from the below link.(Source code still not available i would be very careful while using this app or wallet)

https://burstforum.com/index.php?threads/official-thread-burst-info-app-for-android.438/

Don't waste your time, currently app is paused (and ofc it's not a wallet, just readonly app). Previous versions based on Uray server, so it's not possible to check anything expect price right now. I believe i've got some time to fix that...

[FakeAccount]

Thanks to the seventh donor, making the total sum 1,04BTC/$295

To use http://bitcoinprbuzz.com/services/, we need $429 so please keep sending to those change BTC we all got laying around and we can be sure to use the industries best press release spreading service!

Thanks!

<snip>

I'll send you a little bit in about 24 hrs.

sent some

[bobafett]

Here was mentioned an Android wallet. I cannot find it at Google Play. Has it been withdrawn?

I guess you're trying to find the Android wallet which was never available on Google Playstore?. You can find the wallet info or download link from the below link.(Source code still not available i would be very careful while using this app or wallet)

https://burstforum.com/index.php?threads/official-thread-burst-info-app-for-android.438/

try the webwallet from www.burstcoin.de

[bobafett]

Update and News: www.burstcoin.de

>> New Feature: HTTPS/SSL Webwallet is now available. A little bit slow, but i´m working on it. AT stuff did not workt atm with https.
Adding tomorrow the Mining guide with dccts new super fast miner :-)
------
Help me to keep up the page and enhance the information for the german community. Only! 64k to go in the Crowfund (now at 85%). Please do some donations!!!!

[Blago]

...
try the webwallet from www.burstcoin.de

wallet API port   burstcoin.de:8125  ?

*add to "downloads" http://burstcoin.eu/downloads

[bobafett]

...
try the webwallet from www.burstcoin.de

API   burstcoin.de:8125  ?

https://burstwallet.for-better.biz:8125

had to put it on a different server, because burstcoin.de is hostet by a to small package.

[bensam1231]

Something else I've noticed guys. When fast blocks happen, they're won almost always with a sub 100 deadline, which doesn't make sense considering people usually don't have time to scan all their plots. Maybe it's just coincidence? I've only been watching since Blago added the winner stamp to the miner.

Also interesting, in this specific example, the same person won the block before with the same EXACT deadline. This should be extraordinarily rare to the point where it doesn't happen unless fast blocks are special?

My theory is, that some people out there, with a rather large farm, use a custom miner that will assume that the deadline will win and scan for the next block. This allows them to announce low deadline immediately after their previous deadline was accepted.

no, this is nonsense.  the fast deadlines are real without any funny business.  it's possible to read through alot of data in 20 sec on your plots and find a deadline.
heck, I have found deadlines of: 1,2,3,6,7,12 and several in 20-30 range and then some more beyond the 20 sec range.  it's luck.
and then there are 4+ and 30-40 minute deadlines too. I have them.

edit:

see here: http://burstcoin.eu/charts/average-block-generation-time this distribution looks OK. 
although over a long period of time it will smooth out more to fit a smooth bell curve, which, looking at current graph, suggests that until some time in the future, with an unknown starting time point, we could see more blocks in the 240+ seconds generation time to smooth it out.  or this can happen slowly and randomly and it will smooth out over time. but it looks OK to me.  you are always welcome to read in the whole blockchain, and run stat analysis on generated blocks.  only after you find statistical anomalies, you can raise red flags.  without that proof, you are spewing hot air and most people actually ignore such posts.  I dunno why I responded to be honest with you.  I guess because I assume you don't know how it works (I may be totally wrong in the assumption), so trying to share some info.

It's more about the fact that he has the same exact deadline as the last block AND it happened within the first 5s of the new block.

[sellbuy]

A different question:

Would some of you Burst-people mind to explain in my thread, how energy-saving your technology proof of capacity (POC) mining is? I would like someone to compare it to POS and POW:

"Which is the most environmentally friendly, energy-efficient altcoin?":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=982957.0

For good estimation, we would need a good calculation, of course, and for proof we would need some measurements and extrapolation...

But maybe we could get an idea.

Thank you.

Proof of Capacity energy usage compared to Proof of Stake

You still need a computer and hard drive running to power Proof of Stake... but let's say that you do add 4096 drives to that computer, you could split your plots up across thousands of hard drives, and the only turn on two hard drives at a time per block.  With POC2.. you'll only need to turn on 1 hard drives, one that stores signatures, one that stores the current scoop being read.

And you turn two on for two seconds per 4 minute block(granted, I expect we'll lower block times sooner or later.). So a hard drive would normally consume 10 Watts but we can say it only consumes 2/4*60th of this since it's only on for 2 seconds per 4 minutes.  So this means that it basically consumes 0.83 % of the amount of energy as one hard drive.  Or 0.0167 Watts extra for two drives.  Let's assume there is other over head or you are keeping them on longer or something.. and let's say that all these drives use 1 W to run.  

Ahahah 1 hdd of 4096... And reading speed will beeee....ZERO?  
Anyway hdd in sleep mode taking much amount of power, plus time to wake up is about 10 sec.

I figured you could totally turn it off right? Though you are probably right about wake up time... let me multiply by 10.  Keep in mind Google did a study that shows that it does not significantly increase the wear and tear of a drive to turn it off and on regularly. An let's face it you are only turning it on and off a few times a day, even if you reduce the number of drives plugged in to 100 or so drives.

You can't totally disable drive while it's power plugged(you need to disconnect drive physically from power for that, turn off +12V), so drive will be in sleep mode consuming power.
If you gonna have only 1 drive of 4096 to read, it's reading speed will be about 180mb/s, so it would take about 6-12 HOURS to read full 4tb drive)

My theory is, that some people out there, with a rather large farm, use a custom miner that will assume that the deadline will win and scan for the next block. This allows them to announce low deadline immediately after their previous deadline was accepted.

i like your theory  

so... can they make some sort of blocktime attack?) (cause we don't need to find block immediatelly(like standard PoW), so can they do it in a row?

we need new miner, which can premine next block 

[mczarnek]

A different question:

Would some of you Burst-people mind to explain in my thread, how energy-saving your technology proof of capacity (POC) mining is? I would like someone to compare it to POS and POW:

"Which is the most environmentally friendly, energy-efficient altcoin?":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=982957.0

For good estimation, we would need a good calculation, of course, and for proof we would need some measurements and extrapolation...

But maybe we could get an idea.

Thank you.

Proof of Capacity energy usage compared to Proof of Stake

You still need a computer and hard drive running to power Proof of Stake... but let's say that you do add 4096 drives to that computer, you could split your plots up across thousands of hard drives, and the only turn on two hard drives at a time per block.  With POC2.. you'll only need to turn on 1 hard drives, one that stores signatures, one that stores the current scoop being read.

And you turn two on for two seconds per 4 minute block(granted, I expect we'll lower block times sooner or later.). So a hard drive would normally consume 10 Watts but we can say it only consumes 2/4*60th of this since it's only on for 2 seconds per 4 minutes.  So this means that it basically consumes 0.83 % of the amount of energy as one hard drive.  Or 0.0167 Watts extra for two drives.  Let's assume there is other over head or you are keeping them on longer or something.. and let's say that all these drives use 1 W to run.  

Ahahah 1 hdd of 4096... And reading speed will beeee....ZERO?  
Anyway hdd in sleep mode taking much amount of power, plus time to wake up is about 10 sec.

I figured you could totally turn it off right? Though you are probably right about wake up time... let me multiply by 10.  Keep in mind Google did a study that shows that it does not significantly increase the wear and tear of a drive to turn it off and on regularly. An let's face it you are only turning it on and off a few times a day, even if you reduce the number of drives plugged in to 100 or so drives.

You can't totally disable drive while it's power plugged(you need to disconnect drive physically from power for that, turn off +12V), so drive will be in sleep mode consuming power.
If you gonna have only 1 drive of 4096 to read, it's reading speed will be about 180mb/s, so it would take about 6-12 HOURS to read full 4tb drive)

Good point about read speed.. Let me re-write that assuming less drives tonight. However, keep in mind that w that POC2 could use significantly smaller sections of the drive.. Which would at least help this issue. But yeah that's definitely an issue with my calculation.

Regarding turning off hard drives, remember I'm assuming a device made specifically for this purpose. Of course I'm not factoring in any energy usage for this device.. Maybe I should add 10 W.

Thanks for feedback!!

My theory is, that some people out there, with a rather large farm, use a custom miner that will assume that the deadline will win and scan for the next block. This allows them to announce low deadline immediately after their previous deadline was accepted.

i like your theory  

so... can they make some sort of blocktime attack?) (cause we don't need to find block immediatelly(like standard PoW), so can they do it in a row?

we need new miner, which can premine next block 

It could but since it would be building off of it's own old block, the new deadline wouldn't start ticking down the seconds until the old deadline came about.

In fact, I wonder if it would make sense for miners to announce to the rest of the network that they have found that next deadline in advance before just sending out the block to maximize the time the network has to future blocks. If this miner then decided not to author the block then the network has to choose another miner.

This is sort of similar to the idea of the Nothing at stake issue... need to think more but in fact that preannouncing if done right might help prevent that from even theoretically becoming an issue.

[callmejack]

A different question:

Would some of you Burst-people mind to explain in my thread, how energy-saving your technology proof of capacity (POC) mining is? I would like someone to compare it to POS and POW:

"Which is the most environmentally friendly, energy-efficient altcoin?":
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=982957.0

For good estimation, we would need a good calculation, of course, and for proof we would need some measurements and extrapolation...

But maybe we could get an idea.

Thank you.

Proof of Capacity energy usage compared to Proof of Stake

You still need a computer and hard drive running to power Proof of Stake... but let's say that you do add 4096 drives to that computer, you could split your plots up across thousands of hard drives, and the only turn on two hard drives at a time per block.  With POC2.. you'll only need to turn on 1 hard drives, one that stores signatures, one that stores the current scoop being read.

And you turn two on for two seconds per 4 minute block(granted, I expect we'll lower block times sooner or later.). So a hard drive would normally consume 10 Watts but we can say it only consumes 2/4*60th of this since it's only on for 2 seconds per 4 minutes.  So this means that it basically consumes 0.83 % of the amount of energy as one hard drive.  Or 0.0167 Watts extra for two drives.  Let's assume there is other over head or you are keeping them on longer or something.. and let's say that all these drives use 1 W to run.  

Ahahah 1 hdd of 4096... And reading speed will beeee....ZERO?  
Anyway hdd in sleep mode taking much amount of power, plus time to wake up is about 10 sec.

I figured you could totally turn it off right? Though you are probably right about wake up time... let me multiply by 10.  Keep in mind Google did a study that shows that it does not significantly increase the wear and tear of a drive to turn it off and on regularly. An let's face it you are only turning it on and off a few times a day, even if you reduce the number of drives plugged in to 100 or so drives.

You can't totally disable drive while it's power plugged(you need to disconnect drive physically from power for that, turn off +12V), so drive will be in sleep mode consuming power.
If you gonna have only 1 drive of 4096 to read, it's reading speed will be about 180mb/s, so it would take about 6-12 HOURS to read full 4tb drive)

Good point about read speed.. Let me re-write that assuming less drives tonight. However, keep in mind that w that POC2 could use significantly smaller sections of the drive.. Which would at least help this issue. But yeah that's definitely an issue with my calculation.

Regarding turning off hard drives, remember I'm assuming a device made specifically for this purpose. Of course I'm not factoring in any energy usage for this device.. Maybe I should add 10 W.

Thanks for feedback!!

My theory is, that some people out there, with a rather large farm, use a custom miner that will assume that the deadline will win and scan for the next block. This allows them to announce low deadline immediately after their previous deadline was accepted.

i like your theory  

so... can they make some sort of blocktime attack?) (cause we don't need to find block immediatelly(like standard PoW), so can they do it in a row?

we need new miner, which can premine next block 

It could but since it would be building off of it's own old block, the new deadline wouldn't start ticking down the seconds until the old deadline came about.

In fact, I wonder if it would make sense for miners to announce to the rest of the network that they have found that next deadline in advance before just sending out the block to maximize the time the network has to future blocks. If this miner then decided not to author the block then the network has to choose another miner.

This is sort of similar to the idea of the Nothing at stake issue... need to think more but in fact that preannouncing if done right might help prevent that from even theoretically becoming an issue.

you can only announce a nonce for a account id. all wallets then verify the received nonce by calculating the deadline for it.
the only way to "play" with the blockchain is to ddos the miner wallets by massive nonce submission to the blockchain.
the result of this may be that many mining wallets simply freeze up and the tb mining with it wont get fresh blocks.
i am not aware how the automatic ddos protection works and how fast bad ips would get blacklisted.
this attack vector may have happened before (sorry i cannot proof) because after not finding a block for several hours i directly found blocks as usual after a wallet restart and fresh peers. i have'nt traced this down to its origin but the watched effect looked suspicious.
lately the diff went too high to see this effect directly anymore so i stoped a further investigation.

to be able to premine blocks you require to know the blockheight and the resulting gensig of the winner.
simply said the gensig is based on who found the block combined with the height. therefore there is no way to optimize stored plots for certain gensigs because they alter even for the same miner for a different blockheight.
the only statistically based optimization i could imagine would be to only store nonces which do not contain all scoops.
statistically if you would store nonces containing only 12 scoops your plots may be used for 1 block a day (statistically).
for this one block a day each tb plotted this way equals 360tb. the tricky part starts when you think of load distribution. but maybe this attempt may be used for vps approaches or third generation pools.  


 
  

[burstcoin]

the only way to "play" with the blockchain is to ddos the miner wallets by massive nonce submission to the blockchain.
the result of this may be that many mining wallets simply freeze up and the tb mining with it wont get fresh blocks.
i am not aware how the automatic ddos protection works and how fast bad ips would get blacklisted.
this attack vector may have happened before (sorry i cannot proof) because after not finding a block for several hours i directly found blocks as usual after a wallet restart and fresh peers. i have'nt traced this down to its origin but the watched effect looked suspicious.
lately the diff went too high to see this effect directly anymore so i stoped a further investigation.

If you receive 1 invalid block from a peer you ip ban them for 10 minutes. You'd need a massive number of ips to attempt an attack like that.

[Irontiga]

Dunno if this is right...but i think this is the blocks mined distribution for the past 2520 blocks.....

[bensam1231]

Is there anyone in here that would be willing to 'authenticate' that I own the address BURST-SDHJ-Z6DP-YEWT-G47AZ?

I can send a message or a bit of burst to someone. I'm currently trying to get my old account back which was hacked and someone needs to vouch that I own the above address as the people I'm talking to refuse to download a Burst wallet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=991008

[burstcoin]

Is there anyone in here that would be willing to 'authenticate' that I own the address BURST-SDHJ-Z6DP-YEWT-G47AZ?

I can send a message or a bit of burst to someone. I'm currently trying to get my old account back which was hacked and someone needs to vouch that I own the above address as the people I'm talking to refuse to download a Burst wallet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=991008

As long as you send a message unencrypted the message will be viewable on the block explorer at burstcoin.eu. send the message anywhere and link them to that transaction on that block explorer