[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[bitladen]

I am not a smart dev....just a noobie one....but if AT's can support crosschain, then i'm sure they can mix in the same way that cryptonote does it.
It may not be possible, but i'm sure it could be accomplished.

Hmm, I'll have to look into what exactly an AT does, but I kinda doubt it can CryptoNote relies on Zero-knowledge proof to make the TX-es themselves. You cannot tell for sure which input generated which output, hence it's blockchain analysis resistance.

I don't care about anon-ness. Just make a new account and mine to that...i dunno, i just totally don't care if people link irontiga on btt = account in his sig. It's my only account, and i'm happy with that.

That's because you don't need to clean your tracks. If you receive any BURST, you can just look up in the blockchain where it came from. And if you just mine it, then everybody can see to which address you're spending it to. Which may or may not be eventually linked to your identity, like bitcoin, its just pseudonymous, not anonymous.
With CryptoNote, that's something you actually can't do.
Now just because you don't need to anonymity, or don't sell drugs etc, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be interested, people who do, are more than happy to pay for it, and if your coin provides it, it means profit for you.

Wheat and gold are different.

No doubt. But I'd rather have a huge million dollar worth farm, than 1M in gold, I think it's way more stable. It's a thing to invest and to secure your capital in. Gold is more of a gamble, and bitcoin is even more so.

As for wheat becoming useless after 100 years, you're right, it's old after a few years, but i think that a 5 watt HDD with burst can last a bit longer than that, even if it isn't worth investing in in a few years. I can see a 4tb drive bought now still mining in 5 years time, quite easy actually.

No no, wheat becomes useless eventually, the value is in consuming it (spend on tx fees... sell it to people who need to send money and/or anonymize, and they will gladly spend it)
Then you jump to the hard drive, that's similar to the farm, not to the wheat. The farm still has value in 5 years, though if you don't keep upgrading and repairing it, it will eventually have 0 value, but then you already sold a lot of wheat anyhow.

Now, a little off topic from the above, but i beleive that Burst and storj need to "merge". What i mean by that is Burst needs to implement a storj like system. This would mean that the blockchain is secured by the current poc mining, but there should also be an added option for users to dynamically allocate their hdd space to burst's storage system as well. This would allow that plots be converted to be used as storage instead of hashrate. Lemme explain better.

I disagree, you cannot use the plots for storing data, you either store plots or store storj data, one of the 2. Just mine both coins and divide the space as you see fit, I guess.

[Irontiga]

Now, a little off topic from the above, but i beleive that Burst and storj need to "merge". What i mean by that is Burst needs to implement a storj like system. This would mean that the blockchain is secured by the current poc mining, but there should also be an added option for users to dynamically allocate their hdd space to burst's storage system as well. This would allow that plots be converted to be used as storage instead of hashrate. Lemme explain better.

I disagree, you cannot use the plots for storing data, you either store plots or store storj data, one of the 2. Just mine both coins and divide the space as you see fit, I guess.

I didn't explain it good....

What i mean is that, like storj is built on mastercoin, there should be a storj built on burst, but instead of it using a different currency, it should also use burst. This would allow people to mine for the blockchain whenever there wasn’t demand for storage, and to stop mining blockchain whenever there was demand for storage.

It would also allow people without bandwidth to continue mining.

[bitladen]

I didn't explain it good....

What i mean is that, like storj is built on mastercoin, there should be a storj built on burst, but instead of it using a different currency, it should also use burst. This would allow people to mine for the blockchain whenever there wasn’t demand for storage, and to stop mining blockchain whenever there was demand for storage.

It would also allow people without bandwidth to continue mining.

Ok, then it's going to be a different coin altogether. Would you stop mining burst and switch to that one? I bet you would have to anyway, because of the deflationary model
And I wish what I'm saying was false, it would mean I would make tons of money with burst, but I'm afraid I am correct on this one, let's give it a few months.
Look, monero is kinda limping, even after the recent volume, pts is dead, xpm I think so too, what else? BITCOIN! the way things are going right now, it's safe to say I wouldn't invest in it. When it jumped to 1200, I said this is BAD, very BAD, sure enough, I was right.

[Irontiga]

I didn't explain it good....

What i mean is that, like storj is built on mastercoin, there should be a storj built on burst, but instead of it using a different currency, it should also use burst. This would allow people to mine for the blockchain whenever there wasn’t demand for storage, and to stop mining blockchain whenever there was demand for storage.

It would also allow people without bandwidth to continue mining.

Ok, then it's going to be a different coin altogether. Would you stop mining burst and switch to that one? I bet you would have to anyway, because of the deflationary model
And I wish what I'm saying was false, it would mean I would make tons of money with burst, but I'm afraid I am correct on this one, let's give it a few months.
Look, monero is kinda limping, even after the recent volume, pts is dead, xpm I think so too, what else? BITCOIN! the way things are going right now, it's safe to say I wouldn't invest in it. When it jumped to 1200, I said this is BAD, very BAD, sure enough, I was right.

nooo, same coin, the decentralized fileasharing is part of burst then. It's kinda like you mine with the current poc algorithm instead of the pos from storj. This allows everyone to share files, but the filesharing is not in plots, and blocks are the ones generating new blocks. This gives people something to use burst on, and makes plots useful, but not limited by demand. Pllleeeeeezzzeee someone help me explain :/

[bitladen]

nooo, same coin, the decentralized fileasharing is part of burst then. It's kinda like you mine with the current poc algorithm instead of the pos from storj. This allows everyone to share files, but the filesharing is not in plots, and blocks are the ones generating new blocks. This gives people something to use burst on, and makes plots useful, but not limited by demand. Pllleeeeeezzzeee someone help me explain :/

If I understand you correctly, its like you add an asset or something like that, which is the storage you're selling.
Still I have to say, with the deflationary model, the profits on that asset will be affected by the ongoing dumps which originate from the cheap coins mined in early blocks.
I don't even know why you guys were so concerned about me, the real problem are the cheap blocks that were mined in the beginning, I only hold 2.5M, what's that gonna do?
So I bet people would be much more interested in a fresh fork, where you don't have to put up with the early miners. That's why all the altcoins pop up, the only real profit is in mining early blocks on many coins, and hopefully you hit the jackpot on some of them. I hope you can see how this business model is not healthy.

[burstcoin]

I am not a smart dev....just a noobie one....but if AT's can support crosschain, then i'm sure they can mix in the same way that cryptonote does it.
It may not be possible, but i'm sure it could be accomplished.

Hmm, I'll have to look into what exactly an AT does, but I kinda doubt it can CryptoNote relies on Zero-knowledge proof to make the TX-es themselves. You cannot tell for sure which input generated which output, hence it's blockchain analysis resistance.

While not as good as ring-sig or zk methods, it is possible to mix with ATs, swapping coins with yourself or another user on 1 or across multiple blockchains. The algorithm described here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=893271.msg9839547#msg9839547 can be done with ATs and can likely be expanded to work with more inputs or outputs.

Wheat and gold are different.

No doubt. But I'd rather have a huge million dollar worth farm, than 1M in gold, I think it's way more stable. It's a thing to invest and to secure your capital in. Gold is more of a gamble, and bitcoin is even more so.

As for wheat becoming useless after 100 years, you're right, it's old after a few years, but i think that a 5 watt HDD with burst can last a bit longer than that, even if it isn't worth investing in in a few years. I can see a 4tb drive bought now still mining in 5 years time, quite easy actually.

No no, wheat becomes useless eventually, the value is in consuming it (spend on tx fees... sell it to people who need to send money and/or anonymize, and they will gladly spend it)
Then you jump to the hard drive, that's similar to the farm, not to the wheat. The farm still has value in 5 years, though if you don't keep upgrading and repairing it, it will eventually have 0 value, but then you already sold a lot of wheat anyhow.

While hashrate-based block rewards would be interesting to see, unless there was a large amount of use of the coin and transaction fees were significant  I'd guess the market would just get flooded from the never-ending supply being mined and dumped without demand from those hoping for a value increase.

[bitladen]

While not as good as ring-sig or zk methods, it is possible to mix with ATs, swapping coins with yourself or another user on 1 or across multiple blockchains. The algorithm described here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=893271.msg9839547#msg9839547 can be done with ATs and can likely be expanded to work with more inputs or outputs.

ok, let me see. is it trustless? though I'm repeating myself, I'm also interested in improvements to burst.

While hashrate-based block rewards would be interesting to see, unless there was a large amount of use of the coin and transaction fees were significant  I'd guess the market would just get flooded from the never-ending supply being mined and dumped without demand from those hoping for a value increase.

yes, we'll have to see, what I was just asking was: "Who wants to see?"
and with deflationary coins, I insist that if the price increase isn't keeping up with the reward decrease, the coin has not good prospects, and right now things don't look so good with burst. and thus far only bitcoin has managed to make  comebacks from such situations.

and yes, I do think that tweaking the tx fees and aging fees is essential, and having good features also is. perhaps it would need a few forks until it reaches a stable coin.
and useful features would also be critical, as I proposed anonimity cryptonote style, and trustless exchange with some other blockchains, btc being the most obvious.
integrating with nxt features even better (does burst have non nxt features, other than the POC hashing?)

[Irontiga]

Everyone should be running this#reflink

DW, it's not spam, it just runs in a tab in the background, u never see it, yet you can earn up to 300 burst(u do absolutely nothing). It's great for buy pressure!!!

I haven't touched the tab in ages, and have been earning. I don't get 300 burst/ day, i get more like 30-40, but then I am in NZ, those in other places around the globe will earn wwaaayyyy more

(BTW, run it in chrome and mute the tab, i have found that it can talk every now and then )

[Irontiga]

Byte Ent

Has got a miner running!!! Look for a purple account with name BURSTCITY1 on BURST.NINJA!!! All that profit goes to byte ent holders

[FakeAccount]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7739051&CatId=4230

good price

this one seems better: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J5EZNO0/

[FakeAccount]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7739051&CatId=4230

good price

Not really

Bitladen please do us all a favor, set ur farm on fire and go away.

yea, he's right, tiga. That price isn't very good, I can get them at a local Costco for 129.

I think Bitladen is alright, what's wrong with him?

It is a good price for me....

OK... how do you get that price?

[burstcoin]

While not as good as ring-sig or zk methods, it is possible to mix with ATs, swapping coins with yourself or another user on 1 or across multiple blockchains. The algorithm described here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=893271.msg9839547#msg9839547 can be done with ATs and can likely be expanded to work with more inputs or outputs.

ok, let me see. is it trustless? though I'm repeating myself, I'm also interested in improvements to burst.

The transfer is trustless, however either party would be able to expose the exchange, intentionally leaving a link between them if they wanted.

The original(not-mixing) atomic transfer AT works like this

AT code is used with a destination account, refund account and hash supplied. the AT once created and funded will run trustlessly on the blockchain
party1 will create a secret value and the hash of that is what will be used in the ATs
p1 creates an AT with that will release to p2 when supplied with a message that the hash of the message equals the hash it was created with
p2 also creates an AT like that, since they know that if their AT is released they can use message that released it to release the one p1 created
p1 sends the message to p2's AT to get funds, and p2 uses the same message to release p1's AT

now in order to make an anon version, we alter it to use 2 extra secret values, and some more complicated verification.
p1 will make s1 and s2
p2 will make s3
p1 hashes s1 and sends it to p2 who hashes that with s3 and sends it back, so hash(s3 concat hash(s1)) is known
p1 makes an AT that will release with either s2 or both s1 and s3 (the hash in the previous step is embeded, not hashes of s1 and s3 individually)
p2 creates an AT that will release with s1
p1 releases p2's AT by sending it a message with s1
if p1 is honest they will give p2 s2 that can be used to release p1's AT (and using it will have no messages or hashes shared between the ATs)
if p1 is dishonest p2 can still collect their money by getting s1 from the transaction p1 used to release funds, and combining it with s3 and sending that to the AT. In that case s1 will have been sent to both ATs, leaving a link between them

In both of these cases, the ATs can be on different blockchains.

While hashrate-based block rewards would be interesting to see, unless there was a large amount of use of the coin and transaction fees were significant  I'd guess the market would just get flooded from the never-ending supply being mined and dumped without demand from those hoping for a value increase.

yes, we'll have to see, what I was just asking was: "Who wants to see?"
and with deflationary coins, I insist that if the price increase isn't keeping up with the reward decrease, the coin has not good prospects, and right now things don't look so good with burst. and thus far only bitcoin has managed to make  comebacks from such situations.

and yes, I do think that tweaking the tx fees and aging fees is essential, and having good features also is. perhaps it would need a few forks until it reaches a stable coin.
and useful features would also be critical, as I proposed anonimity cryptonote style, and trustless exchange with some other blockchains, btc being the most obvious.
integrating with nxt features even better (does burst have non nxt features, other than the POC hashing?)

ATs are the most important one, but burst also has built in escrow and subscription(automatically re-occuring transactions)

[Irontiga]

...

OK... how do you get that price?

I dunno..must be that i'm in nz...dunno why tho....hmmm, tryy this link: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=7739051&sku=S130-8728&SRCCODE=WEM4471C&utm_source=EML&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=WEM4471

Hehe, yip, that'll do something to the price They must've set a cookie with a discount code because of their mailer,....

[bitladen]

ATs are the most important one, but burst also has built in escrow and subscription(automatically re-occuring transactions)

Interesting, I have to look up what AT exactly is. But just looking through what you just wrote, I think an AT could be used to trustlessly exchange the coin with BTC? Am I right?
That's a very strong feature to have

[bensam1231]

he has about 700tb!!!

Based on how many blocks he's been finding it's closer to 2PB. Looking at the wallet, the network difficulty increased by about 2PB right around when it started ramping up.

Curiously he's amassing it in one wallet too... If he wanted to he could destroy the market due to the only reason Burst having a high price is people holding it. The name would match if that's the case.

Sorry, but I don't think burst has a "high price".

Compared to the amount of volume being mined it's quite high.

This makes perfect sense. Say if we would all be into farming wheat instead, for some amount of seeds we plant we know we expect to harvest 1 ton of flour. This will always stay more or less the same, no matter how many people will farm in the future, or have farmed in the past. Why not have the same principle for coins?

Ok, so now you ask, why would somebody invest, if infinite coins are emitted. Simple, a ton of flour is still a ton of flour, and anyone can find out exactly what it costs to produce one, and as with any commodity, the price will fluctuate, hence the possibility to profit does exist. However we will be less likely to have any brutal pump and dumps. Also instead of paying tx fees, we can burn the coins when transactions are made, to compensate the infinite emission of coins. And being a cryptonote mixer, transactions is what we like to have, it draws value from that. We can also implement a thing where you can't keep an input for more than a month without transferring it, this also serves our mixing purposes well. We do need many transactions to mix our coins with, if we like to have a good anonymity.

Any constructive comments are welcome

I've mentioned a infinite coin mine before as well. The decline in reward usually leads people to eventually get out of the coin as the hype around mining simply dies out. The miners essentially make or break a coin till it gains leverage and when the profitability of mining dies out, so does the community for mining. If burst ends up like BTC by the time the reward dies out, then it'll be fine, but that has a long way to go. Even BTC is still suffering from lack of wide adoption among normal fiats.

Normal fiats have a infinite mine so to speak too. Too many coins depend on 'scarcity' to give their coin purpose, but they never actually reach a point where that's a thing before they die out so it doesn't even matter. The only exception to this is the fast mine coins that last maybe a couple days to a week.

I don't think increasing the mined amount based on the hashrate would do what you're thinking. People would just be able to dump much easier.

The whole wheat comparison is just getting people stuck in nuances.

[Irontiga]

ATs are the most important one, but burst also has built in escrow and subscription(automatically re-occuring transactions)

Interesting, I have to look up what AT exactly is. But just looking through what you just wrote, I think an AT could be used to trustlessly exchange the coin with BTC? Am I right?
That's a very strong feature to have

It can be exchanged trustlessly with any other coin to implement AT's, yes There's a reason ether received millions in funding to implement these features(and we beat them to it, by a long shot, thx to vbcs, burstdev and ciyam).

[bitladen]

I don't think increasing the mined amount based on the hashrate would do what you're thinking. People would just be able to dump much easier.
The whole wheat comparison is just getting people stuck in nuances.

Interesting. Ok you definitely see the problem I see with these coins. Why exactly am I wrong though?
If you "invest" in a coin then definitely, inflationary model won't be appealing. On the deflationary model you're just gambling that you'll figure out when to dump, before others do. Some will win, some will lose, in the end it's a sick gable. Worst thing that can happen to you is get very lucky on the first coins you try. suicide will soon follow HAHAH

However if the coin is NOT just a platform for ponzi games, it has usefulness, then you can safely treat is as a commodity (or so I'm inclined to think).
The idea came to me for the particular use of mixing transactions. In that case, there will definitely be a lot of buys and sells, but not to invest, but because of the mixing going on. So profit can be made by trading the coin, short term, sell a bit higher, buy a bit lower and do that a huge number of times. Also I suggested burning the tx fees (which should be substantial fees), instead of adding to the mining reward, and burning a % from old inputs. This coin would only exist to be transacted, if you don't transact it, you are sure to lose.

And of course the reward would not increase infinitely. At some point the maximum hashpower will be reached. It should even decrease, if the market price falls. I think my idea simply deters ponzi usage of it, and gives the reward to miners and skilled traders. And the actual users will pay the bill (gladly!). If you try to mix with Monero, good luck! Or just wait until the order book looks like it might be a safe time to do it. With the kind of coin I'm proposing I don't think fluctuations can be too severe over short periods of time.

PS: with normal currency, for example EUR and USD are both inflationary, right? If you think investing in dollars now and gain something 10 years in the future, you are an idiot. But still there's good money to be made on forex. Right? In fact if they hold back on the inflation, they're actually in big trouble. Like what's happening now with the crysis. Which I guess is because the inflationary mechanism they used wasn't a good one. But still we need to find ways to inflate them

That's the state cryptocoins are in right now, anybody who holds them is essentially an idiot. We are all idiots. I'm an idiot I'm holding 2.5M BURST, hoping that a bigger idiot will eventually show up. But I'm forced to do it. Thanks, y'all!

[bitladen]

It can be exchanged trustlessly with any other coin to implement AT's, yes There's a reason ether received millions in funding to implement these features(and we beat them to it, by a long shot, thx to vbcs, burstdev and ciyam).

Exchange with other AT's is just not good enough, for the time being, we are stuck with BTC.

But it can be done. BURST daemon would have to monitor the BTC blockchain. Doesn't need to be the whole blockchain, last N blocks will suffice.
So you make a contract like this (example):  I commit 10000 BURST, if within the next 10 BTC blocks 0.015 or more are posted to 1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v, we wait 6 more confirmations and the 10000 BURST will be released to whatever burst address, I was making the transaction with. No more exchange fees, no more exchange site hacks, no trust required. To prevent spam, you might require that 10 burst are deposited to your address before you initiate this AT, or whatever it would be called. I think it's perfectly doable, and not too difficult either, and it would totally rock.

[burstcoin]

It can be exchanged trustlessly with any other coin to implement AT's, yes There's a reason ether received millions in funding to implement these features(and we beat them to it, by a long shot, thx to vbcs, burstdev and ciyam).

Exchange with other AT's is just not good enough, for the time being, we are stuck with BTC.

But it can be done. BURST daemon would have to monitor the BTC blockchain. Doesn't need to be the whole blockchain, last N blocks will suffice.
So you make a contract like this (example):  I commit 10000 BURST, if within the next 10 BTC blocks 0.015 or more are posted to 1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v, we wait 6 more confirmations and the 10000 BURST will be released to whatever burst address, I was making the transaction with. No more exchange fees, no more exchange site hacks, no trust required. To prevent spam, you might require that 10 burst are deposited to your address before you initiate this AT, or whatever it would be called. I think it's perfectly doable, and not too difficult either, and it would totally rock.

I'm not sure exactly where the limits are on Bitcoin's scripts, but it likely is able to handle at least the simple side of the previously described transfer. Monitoring btc's blockchain would introduce a ton of unwanted traffic, and would only assist in transfering between one coin instead of any.

[bitladen]

I'm not sure exactly where the limits are on Bitcoin's scripts, but it likely is able to handle at least the simple side of the previously described transfer. Monitoring btc's blockchain would introduce a ton of unwanted traffic, and would only assist in transfering between one coin instead of any.

Yea I know, kind of an ugly and boring thing to code, but Bitcoin is not just any coin (and it's more like bitcoin+most clones). And then you already have poloniex, so there's not much incentive here. Nevertheless, it can be done, perhaps in some new coin.