[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA

[LiteBit]

A few thoughts:

• Shen's research should be rewarded with the bounty reward even if that wasn't his original intent in publicizing it on wordpress, reddit, bitcointalk and finally github. The bounty was set up for "Deanonymize ShadowChat or ShadowSend (proof that a protocol is not anonymous)". That's exactly what he has done. Good for him, good for the project.
• Short, dramatic headlines have 1 purpose, draw in readership. Releasing the research with posts such as "Broken Crypto in Shadowcash and OZ-coin" and having community followups like "Deanonymize Shadow? Nope." or "ShadowCash is mathematically broken. I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero." are only doing 1 thing, stirring up invested supporters (time/money) for useless in-fighting. It's no secret the communities are at odds for whatever reasons, both are responsible for the new wealth of future ammo the past 72 hours has provided.
  None of it is productive.
• Shadow's ring signature cryptography protected only the sender's identity and that now appears to be broken. Dual-stealth addresses protect the receiver's identity and that cryptography is not broken. Let the facts be the facts, this project isn't dead or broken or unqualified or whatever, the ring-signature crypto is broken.
• Within Shadow there are 2 tokens, a public token and a private token. The public token is SDC and it is the main token used by shadow users around the world. It's the only token accepted on exchanges, the only token accepted by shapeshift/purse/etc, the strong majority of all transactional data on the chain at this point in the project's history. The SDC token does not use the broken ring-signature cryptography. It acts the same as the BTC token in the bitcoin codebase.
  The private token is SDT and it is was the anonymous token being touted by the project. It represents a minimal amount of traffic on the chain at this point in the project's history. Thankfully the code was peer reviewed and a deanonymizing bug found before mass adoption or the decentralized market was in the hands of the users. At this time, there is no public way to pay for/ trade for/ invest in SDT unless you are a shadow user sending p2p transactions through your own wallet to another wallet.
• Until the shadow project devs develop a fix, release it to the public, pick a fork date and continue on after the fork day, the previous transactions of SDT on the block chain are not anonymous. Again, the majority of transactions (SDC) were traceable and linkable as much as bitcoin already but now the minimal amount of SDT transactions need to also be considered "public" from a sender's (affected ring-sig crypto) perspective.

Supporters will be supporters, and just like sports fans, we get emotional! I myself am a rather large holder of both these 2 quarreling projects, monero and shadowcash. I've been around both from their early starts and will continue to hold both as I fight for my family's privacy. Each community makes me want to sell and move on somedays and this week was no exception for both.

For shadowcash, Shen's deanon code is a big concern but one I'm confident the team will fix and move past. While this ultimately affects the privacy of the "sender" on only 830* transactions over the course of almost 13 months it is something that needs fixed before more users are expected to trust this privacy platform on a large scale.

* source: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ShenNoether/Deanon/master/sdcDeAnon.txt

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[Automatic Monkey]

So I'm going to be a broken record on this issue. I'll repeat it a few more times, probably, until it sinks in or someone from the dev team tells me to piss off. Feel free to use those words.

People are actively working on quantum computer chips. As far as I can tell, only zerocash users have some level of comfort that they won't be affected.

Zerocash is not quantum safe by any means. If that is your concern, do not go there.

(Nor are any of these other coins, so please don't take this as FUD or pumping of anything.)

Quantum-safe cryptographic methods are a current area of research. Zerocash may or may not be desirable for other reasons. Quantum computers are not one of them.

Thanks, all this cryptography talk is confusing me, physics is easier.

People are in awe of the possibility of quantum computing because of its potential to bypass the limitations of c (the speed), however the true limitations in computing power are found in the limited thermal and electrical conductivity of existing materials. (Remember superconducting computers?) What limits the mining speed in your 16 nm ASIC is not c but the ability to get rid of the heat and move the information around within and out of the chip. A practical quantum computing device will face these same limitations as soon as the information moves from the quantum to the classical domain which is where it has to be for us to use it. Thus I would not worry about quantum computing destroying crypto. We will do that first.

[VeritasSapere]

I am still a supporter of the Shadow Project, the bounty did exactly what it was supposed to do, find flaws in the code. I applaud this effort, and I will continue supporting the Shadow Project as long as I earnestly believe in the communities and developers intentions. I am confident that this will be fixed and the Shadow Project will continue being a force for privacy in cryptocurrencies.

To have even put up this bounty in the first place reflects a sincerity of purpose, putting our money where our mouth is so to speak. I know Dash has a similar bounty in place, does Monero have one as well? I support all three projects by the way, they all share similar goals after all.

[coins101]

So I'm going to be a broken record on this issue. I'll repeat it a few more times, probably, until it sinks in or someone from the dev team tells me to piss off. Feel free to use those words.

People are actively working on quantum computer chips. As far as I can tell, only zerocash users have some level of comfort that they won't be affected.

Zerocash is not quantum safe by any means. If that is your concern, do not go there.

(Nor are any of these other coins, so please don't take this as FUD or pumping of anything.)

Quantum-safe cryptographic methods are a current area of research. Zerocash may or may not be desirable for other reasons. Quantum computers are not one of them.

Thanks, all this cryptography talk is confusing me, physics is easier.

People are in awe of the possibility of quantum computing because of its potential to bypass the limitations of c (the speed), however the true limitations in computing power are found in the limited thermal and electrical conductivity of existing materials. (Remember superconducting computers?) What limits the mining speed in your 16 nm ASIC is not c but the ability to get rid of the heat and move the information around within and out of the chip. A practical quantum computing device will face these same limitations as soon as the information moves from the quantum to the classical domain which is where it has to be for us to use it. Thus I would not worry about quantum computing destroying crypto. We will do that first.

It doesn't seem like quantum chips are a pipe dream. http://www.zmescience.com/research/technology/two-qubit-quantum-computer-0432/

[erok]

So I'm going to be a broken record on this issue. I'll repeat it a few more times, probably, until it sinks in or someone from the dev team tells me to piss off. Feel free to use those words.

People are actively working on quantum computer chips. As far as I can tell, only zerocash users have some level of comfort that they won't be affected.

Zerocash is not quantum safe by any means. If that is your concern, do not go there.

(Nor are any of these other coins, so please don't take this as FUD or pumping of anything.)

Quantum-safe cryptographic methods are a current area of research. Zerocash may or may not be desirable for other reasons. Quantum computers are not one of them.

Thanks, all this cryptography talk is confusing me, physics is easier.

People are in awe of the possibility of quantum computing because of its potential to bypass the limitations of c (the speed), however the true limitations in computing power are found in the limited thermal and electrical conductivity of existing materials. (Remember superconducting computers?) What limits the mining speed in your 16 nm ASIC is not c but the ability to get rid of the heat and move the information around within and out of the chip. A practical quantum computing device will face these same limitations as soon as the information moves from the quantum to the classical domain which is where it has to be for us to use it. Thus I would not worry about quantum computing destroying crypto. We will do that first.

It doesn't seem like quantum chips are a pipe dream. http://www.zmescience.com/research/technology/two-qubit-quantum-computer-0432/

something interesting to think about is the amount of computations they will be able to handle is exponentially greater than any 16nm asic or any fpga setup. Heat being the limiting factor they should still be leaps and bounds more powerful. All cryptography will be looking at things differently when quantum attacks are prevalent. Neat reads btw coins101.

[child_harold]

So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

[RyanOlstren]

So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

It's how they keep their ignorant community in the dark.

[child_harold]

So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

It's how they keep their ignorant community in the dark.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

ps lets not b nasty re community altho in this case its pretty much wheatclove, erok and…

[erok]

So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

It's how they keep their ignorant community in the dark.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

ps lets not b nasty re community altho in this case its pretty much wheatclove, erok and…

What would you rather we talk about? obviously the ring sig bug has been talked about to death. Are we now not allowed to talk about normal technology driven stuff because ch and his circlejerk troll buddy say we cant? You two aren't done trolling yet? You two had NOTHING to contribute to any of this except "neener neener" and now you are mocking normal conversation? What is wrong with you people?

[coins101]

So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?
....

....

Actually, if you read up thread, the issues around quantum computers have some context that you should pay attention to.

edit

start here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg13871423#msg13871423

[smooth]

Good post LiteBit, but I'll take issue on one point:

• Shadow's ring signature cryptography protected only the sender's identity and that now appears to be broken. Dual-stealth addresses protect the receiver's identity and that cryptography is not broken.

Agree that stealth addresses are not broken. Disagree that ring signatures protect only the sender's identity. They also serve (together with stealth) to resist blockchain analysis, so breaking them makes the overall chain easier to analyze and potentially hurts everyone's privacy.

But as you say the bug can be fixed and the feature hasn't been used that much in the past anyway.

[X1235]

The code can be fixed but not my head.

The above statement is not quite true. You can replace your head with a thicker one. Does this look familiar?

I told everyone here that the fud team bagholders would start dumping this coin after this last release. Longandshort and the rest of the "team" did just that. That's why you haven't heard from them. The fud team who controls the bitcointalk account deleted my posts and now you guys are the new bagholders. The dev is complicit in this, although he is getting played too. He put in countless hours probably to clone bytecoin and his shadows are worth less than when he started.

The tech here is nothing new. It's a rehash of bytecoin. Congrats on the devs for porting it to bitcoin, but you have literally nothing new here. Even stealth addresses were a port of Peter Todd's python implementation.

As far as recruiting talent, it won't happen. No real devs will come near the nutcases that come out to troll for this coin after they dump and refill their bags. They would probably have to recruit from other coins, but the fud team has fudded so many other coins, that no devs would want to get their hands dirty in this pit of trolls. Play it safe, dump on the next pump and go buy monero or boolberry, they have the best devs.

I warned you before and I've warned you again. My post will be deleted, but the truth is a hard pill. If you read this, heed my advice.


RyanOlstren0, Mar 2, 2015

350 days later the same shits in your head haven't evaporated. Are you born like this or your medications are somewhat ineffective? Do you want me to prescribe a new treatment?

[RyanOlstren]

The code can be fixed but not my head.

The above statement is not quite true. You can replace your head with a thicker one. Does this look familiar?

I told everyone here that the fud team bagholders would start dumping this coin after this last release. Longandshort and the rest of the "team" did just that. That's why you haven't heard from them. The fud team who controls the bitcointalk account deleted my posts and now you guys are the new bagholders. The dev is complicit in this, although he is getting played too. He put in countless hours probably to clone bytecoin and his shadows are worth less than when he started.

The tech here is nothing new. It's a rehash of bytecoin. Congrats on the devs for porting it to bitcoin, but you have literally nothing new here. Even stealth addresses were a port of Peter Todd's python implementation.

As far as recruiting talent, it won't happen. No real devs will come near the nutcases that come out to troll for this coin after they dump and refill their bags. They would probably have to recruit from other coins, but the fud team has fudded so many other coins, that no devs would want to get their hands dirty in this pit of trolls. Play it safe, dump on the next pump and go buy monero or boolberry, they have the best devs.

I warned you before and I've warned you again. My post will be deleted, but the truth is a hard pill. If you read this, heed my advice.


RyanOlstren0, Mar 2, 2015

350 days later the same shits in your head haven't evaporated. Are you born like this or your medications are somewhat ineffective? Do you want me to prescribe a new treatment?

I was right about that analysis, you know. The price is down 50% from when I posted that. It will go down more.

I'm flattered though, I didn't read your backposts. Is there anything in there I should look at?

[RyanOlstren]

The code can be fixed but not my head.

The above statement is not quite true. You can replace your head with a thicker one. Does this look familiar?

I told everyone here that the fud team bagholders would start dumping this coin after this last release. Longandshort and the rest of the "team" did just that. That's why you haven't heard from them. The fud team who controls the bitcointalk account deleted my posts and now you guys are the new bagholders. The dev is complicit in this, although he is getting played too. He put in countless hours probably to clone bytecoin and his shadows are worth less than when he started.

The tech here is nothing new. It's a rehash of bytecoin. Congrats on the devs for porting it to bitcoin, but you have literally nothing new here. Even stealth addresses were a port of Peter Todd's python implementation.

As far as recruiting talent, it won't happen. No real devs will come near the nutcases that come out to troll for this coin after they dump and refill their bags. They would probably have to recruit from other coins, but the fud team has fudded so many other coins, that no devs would want to get their hands dirty in this pit of trolls. Play it safe, dump on the next pump and go buy monero or boolberry, they have the best devs.

I warned you before and I've warned you again. My post will be deleted, but the truth is a hard pill. If you read this, heed my advice.


RyanOlstren0, Mar 2, 2015

350 days later the same shits in your head haven't evaporated. Are you born like this or your medications are somewhat ineffective? Do you want me to prescribe a new treatment?

You are seriously worried about me when the incompetent devs made a poor copy of cryptonote and jeopardized the privacy and safety of this coin's users?

Yeah, let's go shopping.

[RyanOlstren]

Things to do besides ensure the privacy and safety of shadow users:

1. Go shopping.
2. Worry about Ryan.
3. Bash monero.
4. Troll other coins.
5. Baghold.

Did I miss anything?

[dEBRUYNE]

Good post LiteBit, but I'll take issue on one point:

• Shadow's ring signature cryptography protected only the sender's identity and that now appears to be broken. Dual-stealth addresses protect the receiver's identity and that cryptography is not broken.

Agree that stealth addresses are not broken. Disagree that ring signatures protect only the sender's identity. They also serve (together with stealth) to resist blockchain analysis, so breaking them makes the overall chain easier to analyze and potentially hurts everyone's privacy.

But as you say the bug can be fixed and the feature hasn't been used that much in the past anyway.

+1, although I have one thing to add:

"ShadowCash is mathematically broken. I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero."

That thread was made by a community member, not an official core-team member or Monero Research Lab member. It's an opensource project, the core-team can't stop community members from posting it unfortunately.

[rutherford]

hayato: Well this was an absolutely enlightening read.  I enjoyed picking up half price SDC and the future will be bright.  Or...in shade.  Whichever you prefer.  Time tells all.  I sold all my Monero this morning before I even knew about this incident, Monero isn't interesting to me whatsoever.   SDC is and that's something that fundamentally separates the two.  Everything else is mendable and reinforceable.  You can dress up a pig as fancy as you like, but it's still a pig.

[rustynailer]

I am not really sure how much lower you Monero crew can go now, you have even put a neg rating on our irc bot rutherford.

[mistercashking]

I am not really sure how much lower you Monero crew can go now, you have even put a neg rating on our irc bot rutherford.

on the bot. lol I'll have to agree that was really petty.

[erok]

I am not really sure how much lower you Monero crew can go now, you have even put a neg rating on our irc bot rutherford.

It's a bot. Bot postings break forum rules.