[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Anon136]

The Monero community was against the possibility of Bitmain dominating and defining the future of the market. This is unbelievable and more people should start supporting the currency. But if that fork will result in a competitor like BCash. With people who constantly spread bad news, lies and act against the currency, it will be a bad thing.

No. It is a routine fork. We do it every 6 months. We have been doing this for a long time. It never has been an issue even once. In fact we sort of hard fork even if there is no real technological motivation to do so. It is like a vote of confidence by the community in the direction of the dev team. It's almost like an election but with consensus rather than majority.

If people want to fork off and leave than we would kind of rather them do that than hang around and make strife. But no one ever has. Except these MoneroV morons who are doing it for a cash grab rather than out of any true ideological divide.

[1714903930]

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[1714903930]

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[tokeweed]

I guess one of the reasons for the price drop you are talking about is because both Bitmain and Baikal announced that Monero ASICs are comming to the market - Bitmain Antminer X3 and Baikal Giant N
Looks like a lot of people are concern about them and this reflects to the current price level of all the Cryptonight coins.

Is this true? If its then monero will get pumped hard and fall down like a crashing plane afterwards. Just like what happened to DASH.

can you provide us the link for this monero miners.? I hope monero V fork has a solution for this .

I don't think moneroV does. But monero monero does. A slight change is going to be made to the mining algorithm that will render these asics useless for mining monero.

Fishy how the timing of the MoneroV attack fork and the Cryptonote ASIC's is.  Could Bitmain and those XMV devs be all in it together?

And it's worrisome that they found some sort of 'attack vector'.  Even if this one fails, other more malevolent attackers could try it again and again, both the ASIC attack and the fork attack.

[denetci]

If there was a hardware wallet like Trezor that supported Monero, how would it be affected by the upcoming 28 March changes? Does the algorithm change only affect miners and not wallets?

[nazzer]

If there was a hardware wallet like Trezor that supported Monero, how would it be affected by the upcoming 28 March changes? Does the algorithm change only affect miners and not wallets?

Wallets hold the private key to an address on the blockchain, miners run a proof of work algorithm to secure the blockchain.

These are two different cryptographic operations.

[pa]

I guess one of the reasons for the price drop you are talking about is because both Bitmain and Baikal announced that Monero ASICs are comming to the market - Bitmain Antminer X3 and Baikal Giant N
Looks like a lot of people are concern about them and this reflects to the current price level of all the Cryptonight coins.

Is this true? If its then monero will get pumped hard and fall down like a crashing plane afterwards. Just like what happened to DASH.

can you provide us the link for this monero miners.? I hope monero V fork has a solution for this .

I don't think moneroV does. But monero monero does. A slight change is going to be made to the mining algorithm that will render these asics useless for mining monero.

Fishy how the timing of the MoneroV attack fork and the Cryptonote ASIC's is.  Could Bitmain and those XMV devs be all in it together?

And it's worrisome that they found some sort of 'attack vector'.  Even if this one fails, other more malevolent attackers could try it again and again, both the ASIC attack and the fork attack.

I had the same thought. The price of financial liberty will be eternal vigilance.

[alaskabm]

Next week the G20 is coming up and they will also talk about crypto. As stated in the public document of the G20(: https://back-g20.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/media/finance_ministerial_highlights.pdf) they understand that crypto has the potential to promote financial inclusion but at the same time they will try to analyse implications to financial stability, tax evasion and financing illegal activities. These statements are nothing new and very similar to what was said previously at the US senate hearings.

Could this have implications on Monero?

The other day I asked about the impact that the G20 might have on Monero and didn't get much attention. I guess that the line of thought is that no one really cares about what the G20 has to say about BTC or XMR since they can't stop us from having and using XMR.

What scared me though is that BTC (XMR followed) went on a run on the news that there won't be any special regulations coming up soon. This is strong evidence that govs and central banks have a very strong impact on crypto and can do whatever they want(weren't BTC and XMR born to be out of this system?). The fact that XMR price is so dependent on regulations is scary and this is a fact shown by the price movements following the news. Having no tight regulations is of course positive but what will happen when a crackdown arrives?. BTC and XMR just showed that they are super dependent on what govs and central banks say.

In the hypothetical scenario of upcoming regulations for privacy coins (bans on exchanges for example) XMR will be strongly affected as shown by positive response to G20 news.

I thought that XMR was way more resilient to regulations. Unfortunately correlation works both ways, up and down

[TheBeardedBaby]

~snip~
can you provide us the link for this monero miners.? I hope monero V fork has a solution for this .

I don't think moneroV does. But monero monero does. A slight change is going to be made to the mining algorithm that will render these asics useless for mining monero.

Is this announced somewhere? The HYPE and FUD are really strong forces and big part of the crypto miners are like sheep /no offense/ they have no idea what they are doing, only money matters, so I guess many will be fooled around to buy some expensive ASICs door-stoppers.

[pradobo]

I'll bite. Post them addresses.

You want BTC, LTC, something else?  (I don't touch BCash)

Market dump? Limit dump?

44RTDnaPPKm7Rz786ugX5LGGP8ZSjFSfw3xZBtFhqjecgTNoqpohP6NRv774Cdk1QqE7WRpkLZ44aiJ ATczaw8EC4wRGStZ

What ever has worked worst for you in the past

BTC address?

I meant to send 0.01 but I sent 0.001. All I did was pay a transaction fee and make dust

Such mistakes are made by everyone, especially those people who make many transactions in one day. You need to be more attentive next time.

[SheepSuit]

I'll bite. Post them addresses.

You want BTC, LTC, something else?  (I don't touch BCash)

Market dump? Limit dump?

44RTDnaPPKm7Rz786ugX5LGGP8ZSjFSfw3xZBtFhqjecgTNoqpohP6NRv774Cdk1QqE7WRpkLZ44aiJ ATczaw8EC4wRGStZ

What ever has worked worst for you in the past

BTC address?

I meant to send 0.01 but I sent 0.001. All I did was pay a transaction fee and make dust

Such mistakes are made by everyone, especially those people who make many transactions in one day. You need to be more attentive next time.

Exactly. Good that you made a mistake of this magnitude. i have made worse ones

[Febo]

https://monerobase.com/wiki/DevMeeting_2018-03-18


To allow some additional time to test all of the new features, the next Monero release has been pushed to ~April 6th: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/3424
Version 0.12 "Lithium Luna"
The release is expected to be tagged and ready for testing this week.
v0.12 "Major" Features
MultiSig
SubAddresses
Default Ring Size increase from 5 to 7
Proof of Work changes to combat ASIC's
Initial hardware wallet support for Ledger
Key reuse mitigations
A Dark theme for the official GUI should be finalized this week.

Well this isn't going to help price at all.

thanks for the post.

I would say the list of major features is really impressive and should have a more profound impact than the slight delay...

List of new features in this upgrade is huge. Not for us that monitor Monero progress in details here, but for coin itself is just huge.

If there was a hardware wallet like Trezor that supported Monero, how would it be affected by the upcoming 28 March changes? Does the algorithm change only affect miners and not wallets?

Monero protocol upgrade ( hard fork) will happen in 6th April.  We will have to update our wallets if we will want to use Monero. Usually they are available like a week or two in advance.

I guess one of the reasons for the price drop you are talking about is because both Bitmain and Baikal announced that Monero ASICs are comming to the market - Bitmain Antminer X3 and Baikal Giant N
Looks like a lot of people are concern about them and this reflects to the current price level of all the Cryptonight coins.

Is this true? If its then monero will get pumped hard and fall down like a crashing plane afterwards. Just like what happened to DASH.

can you provide us the link for this monero miners.? I hope monero V fork has a solution for this .

I don't think moneroV does. But monero monero does. A slight change is going to be made to the mining algorithm that will render these asics useless for mining monero.

I also dont think anyone would buy an asic miner to mine moneroV.   Not sure if there are any other cryptonote coins that people will buy asic miners for.

I guess one of the reasons for the price drop you are talking about is because both Bitmain and Baikal announced that Monero ASICs are comming to the market - Bitmain Antminer X3 and Baikal Giant N
Looks like a lot of people are concern about them and this reflects to the current price level of all the Cryptonight coins.

Is this true? If its then monero will get pumped hard and fall down like a crashing plane afterwards. Just like what happened to DASH.

can you provide us the link for this monero miners.? I hope monero V fork has a solution for this .

I don't think moneroV does. But monero monero does. A slight change is going to be made to the mining algorithm that will render these asics useless for mining monero.

Fishy how the timing of the MoneroV attack fork and the Cryptonote ASIC's is.  Could Bitmain and those XMV devs be all in it together?

And it's worrisome that they found some sort of 'attack vector'.  Even if this one fails, other more malevolent attackers could try it again and again, both the ASIC attack and the fork attack.

I had the same thought. The price of financial liberty will be eternal vigilance.

I have no ideas if they could be connected, but the ASIC sales only happened because it was announced that mining algorithm will get tweaked.  They had been mining in secret for at least 3 months. Now that this ASIC will become obsolete they hope to dump them on some people that are misinformed about mining algorithm tweak.

[pinkman12345]

Was doing a comparison on yesterday's volume at the red trend.
conclusion: No one wanted NEO at 58$ but the buy trend for monero was the same as when NEO was 110$. So it clearly signifies real support is there for XMR even in down trend.

[cAPSLOCK]

Was doing a comparison on yesterday's volume at the red trend.
conclusion: No one wanted NEO at 58$ but the buy trend for monero was the same as when NEO was 110$. So it clearly signifies real support is there for XMR even in down trend.

Everyone always picks on pets.com.  But there were so many, and so many were a big deal back inthe 90s.  Read this for some good history:
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/10/the-50-worst-internet-startup-fails-of-all-time/freeinternet

Broadcast.com. Blue Mountain.... myspace...  so many.

They didn't all die the same way.  Some were bad ideas from the start.  Some were executed poorly.  The media touted many of these as companies that would change the world as we know it, and the money flowed in like a river.  And then flowed out like a toilet flush.

I believe we are seeing the very very first stage of the alt-coin toilet flush.

Monero is not in the toilet.  It is sitting in the bath with a glass of Barolo.

This could take years, or go faster than we all expect... hard for me to say.  And is Monero at any risk?  I'd say so.  It could be a Yahoo in the grand scheme of things.  Will Bitcoin replace the need for it with layer two?  Maybe.  But not for a while, and it is also possible that Monero becomes Bitcoins privacy layer... I dunno.

[estenity]

Next week the G20 is coming up and they will also talk about crypto. As stated in the public document of the G20(: https://back-g20.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/media/finance_ministerial_highlights.pdf) they understand that crypto has the potential to promote financial inclusion but at the same time they will try to analyse implications to financial stability, tax evasion and financing illegal activities. These statements are nothing new and very similar to what was said previously at the US senate hearings.

Could this have implications on Monero?

The other day I asked about the impact that the G20 might have on Monero and didn't get much attention. I guess that the line of thought is that no one really cares about what the G20 has to say about BTC or XMR since they can't stop us from having and using XMR.

What scared me though is that BTC (XMR followed) went on a run on the news that there won't be any special regulations coming up soon. This is strong evidence that govs and central banks have a very strong impact on crypto and can do whatever they want(weren't BTC and XMR born to be out of this system?). The fact that XMR price is so dependent on regulations is scary and this is a fact shown by the price movements following the news. Having no tight regulations is of course positive but what will happen when a crackdown arrives?. BTC and XMR just showed that they are super dependent on what govs and central banks say.

In the hypothetical scenario of upcoming regulations for privacy coins (bans on exchanges for example) XMR will be strongly affected as shown by positive response to G20 news.

I thought that XMR was way more resilient to regulations. Unfortunately correlation works both ways, up and down

no problem with the last G20 meeting:

https://news.bitcoin.com/g20-watchdog-says-cryptos-not-risk-resists-calls-new-rules/

[infofront]

Next week the G20 is coming up and they will also talk about crypto. As stated in the public document of the G20(: https://back-g20.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/media/finance_ministerial_highlights.pdf) they understand that crypto has the potential to promote financial inclusion but at the same time they will try to analyse implications to financial stability, tax evasion and financing illegal activities. These statements are nothing new and very similar to what was said previously at the US senate hearings.

Could this have implications on Monero?

The other day I asked about the impact that the G20 might have on Monero and didn't get much attention. I guess that the line of thought is that no one really cares about what the G20 has to say about BTC or XMR since they can't stop us from having and using XMR.

What scared me though is that BTC (XMR followed) went on a run on the news that there won't be any special regulations coming up soon. This is strong evidence that govs and central banks have a very strong impact on crypto and can do whatever they want(weren't BTC and XMR born to be out of this system?). The fact that XMR price is so dependent on regulations is scary and this is a fact shown by the price movements following the news. Having no tight regulations is of course positive but what will happen when a crackdown arrives?. BTC and XMR just showed that they are super dependent on what govs and central banks say.

In the hypothetical scenario of upcoming regulations for privacy coins (bans on exchanges for example) XMR will be strongly affected as shown by positive response to G20 news.

I thought that XMR was way more resilient to regulations. Unfortunately correlation works both ways, up and down

Monero is flying under the radar, and riding on the goodwill towards bitcoin. The regulators are years behind and don't even understand bitcoin yet. By the time the full impact of bitcoin on the economy is known, regulatory regimes are set up, etc. it will be too late to stop Monero. We'll have decentralized exchanges and atomic swaps.

[cAPSLOCK]

Next week the G20 is coming up and they will also talk about crypto. As stated in the public document of the G20(: https://back-g20.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/media/finance_ministerial_highlights.pdf) they understand that crypto has the potential to promote financial inclusion but at the same time they will try to analyse implications to financial stability, tax evasion and financing illegal activities. These statements are nothing new and very similar to what was said previously at the US senate hearings.

Could this have implications on Monero?

The other day I asked about the impact that the G20 might have on Monero and didn't get much attention. I guess that the line of thought is that no one really cares about what the G20 has to say about BTC or XMR since they can't stop us from having and using XMR.

What scared me though is that BTC (XMR followed) went on a run on the news that there won't be any special regulations coming up soon. This is strong evidence that govs and central banks have a very strong impact on crypto and can do whatever they want(weren't BTC and XMR born to be out of this system?). The fact that XMR price is so dependent on regulations is scary and this is a fact shown by the price movements following the news. Having no tight regulations is of course positive but what will happen when a crackdown arrives?. BTC and XMR just showed that they are super dependent on what govs and central banks say.

In the hypothetical scenario of upcoming regulations for privacy coins (bans on exchanges for example) XMR will be strongly affected as shown by positive response to G20 news.

I thought that XMR was way more resilient to regulations. Unfortunately correlation works both ways, up and down

Monero is flying under the radar, and riding on the goodwill towards bitcoin. The regulators are years behind and don't even understand bitcoin yet. By the time the full impact of bitcoin on the economy is known, regulatory regimes are set up, etc. it will be too late to stop Monero. We'll have decentralized exchanges and atomic swaps.

I imagine you and I are similar cryptosophically.  Bitcoin maximilists at heart who see Monero as either being what bitcoin meant to be or being a perfect compliment blockchain.

I agree with your above analysis.  The question I keep asking is what does Monero's survival look like in the light of a maturing layer 2?  Does it:

-Hold it's niche as a pure 100% privacy blockchain where everything down to the settlement level is obscured and therefore it survives

-Find a way to merge with Bitcoin or in some other way survives?

-Is it made obsolete by functionality that eventually comes to BTC?  And how long 'till this time?

[XMR2020]

Will Bitcoin replace the need for it with layer two?  Maybe.  But not for a while, and it is also possible that Monero becomes Bitcoins privacy layer... I dunno.

Impossible. Fungibility must be on layer one. Chain analysis companies will simply flag everything that touches the privacy layer as tainted. They are already adopting this approach as a chain analysis company admitted in an interview with Bloomberg:

The techniques are so potent that software that flags coins suspected of being obtained through crime now tags just about anything converted into or out of monero as high risk, according to Pawel Kuskowski, chief executive officer of Coinfirm, which helps exchanges and other companies avoid tainted money. That compares with only about 10 percent of bitcoin, he said.

“What we treat ‘high risk’ is something that’s anonymizing funds,” he said in a phone interview. “How are you going to prove that these funds are not coming from illegal sources?”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-02/criminal-underworld-is-dropping-bitcoin-for-another-currency

 

[infofront]

Next week the G20 is coming up and they will also talk about crypto. As stated in the public document of the G20(: https://back-g20.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/media/finance_ministerial_highlights.pdf) they understand that crypto has the potential to promote financial inclusion but at the same time they will try to analyse implications to financial stability, tax evasion and financing illegal activities. These statements are nothing new and very similar to what was said previously at the US senate hearings.

Could this have implications on Monero?

The other day I asked about the impact that the G20 might have on Monero and didn't get much attention. I guess that the line of thought is that no one really cares about what the G20 has to say about BTC or XMR since they can't stop us from having and using XMR.

What scared me though is that BTC (XMR followed) went on a run on the news that there won't be any special regulations coming up soon. This is strong evidence that govs and central banks have a very strong impact on crypto and can do whatever they want(weren't BTC and XMR born to be out of this system?). The fact that XMR price is so dependent on regulations is scary and this is a fact shown by the price movements following the news. Having no tight regulations is of course positive but what will happen when a crackdown arrives?. BTC and XMR just showed that they are super dependent on what govs and central banks say.

In the hypothetical scenario of upcoming regulations for privacy coins (bans on exchanges for example) XMR will be strongly affected as shown by positive response to G20 news.

I thought that XMR was way more resilient to regulations. Unfortunately correlation works both ways, up and down

Monero is flying under the radar, and riding on the goodwill towards bitcoin. The regulators are years behind and don't even understand bitcoin yet. By the time the full impact of bitcoin on the economy is known, regulatory regimes are set up, etc. it will be too late to stop Monero. We'll have decentralized exchanges and atomic swaps.

I imagine you and I are similar cryptosophically.  Bitcoin maximilists at heart who see Monero as either being what bitcoin meant to be or being a perfect compliment blockchain.

I agree with your above analysis.  The question I keep asking is what does Monero's survival look like in the light of a maturing layer 2?  Does it:

-Hold it's niche as a pure 100% privacy blockchain where everything down to the settlement level is obscured and therefore it survives

-Find a way to merge with Bitcoin or in some other way survives?

-Is it made obsolete by functionality that eventually comes to BTC?  And how long 'till this time?

Yeah, that sounds about right in terms of my views too.

As far as the future is concerned, I think your first scenario sounds most likely to me. Any bitcoin privacy solutions that come about will most likely either be less private than Monero, or will end up creating tainted bitcoins, and therefore destroying fungibility. I imagine Monero will continue gaining ground in the grey market/black market/tax evasion areas until a bitcoin privacy solution is implemented. Monero's growth may slow down or stall at that point, but I can't see it dying off. Worst case would be Monero shrinks into being a niche for paranoid nerds and old school cypherpunks or something.
What do you think?

[dEBRUYNE]

~snip~
can you provide us the link for this monero miners.? I hope monero V fork has a solution for this .

I don't think moneroV does. But monero monero does. A slight change is going to be made to the mining algorithm that will render these asics useless for mining monero.

Is this announced somewhere? The HYPE and FUD are really strong forces and big part of the crypto miners are like sheep /no offense/ they have no idea what they are doing, only money matters, so I guess many will be fooled around to buy some expensive ASICs door-stoppers.

See:

https://getmonero.org/2018/02/11/PoW-change-and-key-reuse.html

[dEBRUYNE]

"How individuals can safeguard themselves and the community against a key reusing fork"

https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/7826/how-can-individuals-safeguard-themselves-and-the-community-against-a-key-reusing/7844#7844

[dEBRUYNE]

[Seeks Funding] Funding for Surae at MRL Q2 2018

https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/90057/funding-for-surae-at-mrl-q2-2018