Unveiling the truth over the major Monero scam

[Johnny Mnemonic]

monero is doing even better than I thought.

You can't be serious... Monero has gone absolutely nowhere.

The standard is not ninja miner cost in April or whatever...
The standard is the first week listed on Polo when the Ave Price was 0.00530
That's the fucking standard for "doing better" or sucking shit.

I've made over 2,000 XMR trades because it's nice to scalp it on 3 exchanges...
And the volume is real, but I'm certain XMR is being heavily manipulated by a few whales...
Probably on direct orders from the McRisto Pump Mothership.

Even the crack hos on the street know a Big Pump is coming...
Every day I hear, "I'll blow you for some Monero, baby".

XMR is positively levitating like a shady snake charmer...
While far superior coins with SANE communities have gotten crushed.

Let's face it...
This is a Gen 1.0 one trick anon pony...
Up against a Gen 2.0 Crypto Asset platform shoot out...
With major corporations about to start rolling out well financed Gen 3.0 crypto.

Nobody is forcing you to like Monero. But where's the evidence of it being a hoax or scam? I'm still waiting for this thread to live up to it's title. Come on, guys, where's the proof?

[1715540037]

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[drawingthesun]

monero is doing even better than I thought.

You can't be serious... Monero has gone absolutely nowhere.

The standard is not ninja miner cost in April or whatever...
The standard is the first week listed on Polo when the Ave Price was 0.00530
That's the fucking standard for "doing better" or sucking shit.

I've made over 2,000 XMR trades because it's nice to scalp it on 3 exchanges...
And the volume is real, but I'm certain XMR is being heavily manipulated by a few whales...
Probably on direct orders from the McRisto Pump Mothership.

Even the crack hos on the street know a Big Pump is coming...
Every day I hear, "I'll blow you for some Monero, baby".

XMR is positively levitating like a shady snake charmer...
While far superior coins with SANE communities have gotten crushed.

Let's face it...
This is a Gen 1.0 one trick anon pony...
Up against a Gen 2.0 Crypto Asset platform shoot out...
With major corporations about to start rolling out well financed Gen 3.0 crypto.

There is a market for a digital currency that acts like cash, Monero is positioned to be that currency.

The anonymous feature is all we need.

These Crypto asset currencies pose many threats, but none to Monero, and if they start positioning themselves to take on dedicated currencies, the people investing will wake up one day with their dreams smashed to pieces because these asset currencies are not able to offer anonymous simple cash, and investing in them thinking that is what you're getting will become a rude awakening for you.

Also when has a major corporation created something truly innovative in the crypto space?

[iCEBREAKER]

[unsupported speculation, wild imaginings, paranoid delusions]

Sorry OP you are doing it wrong, ^that^ is not how you debunk a coin. 

This is how you debunk a coin: http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/17/dont-walk-away-run/

We haven't even got the green light to begin advertising Monero.  The team wants to wait until the GUI and DB are done-ish so you don't need tons of RAM/skillz to use XMR.

Except for the logo, XMR raises funds exclusively to help implement key features, not for marketing.

What you are hearing and complaining/hallucinating/freaking out about is called 'word-of-mouth' which is an unpaid, decentralized form of non-commercial communication.

People are naturally talkative about Monero because it is the first great advancement beyond Bitcoin, moving us from radical transparency to radical privacy.

Many old-timers recognize the excitement around the project because they experienced it before, back when BTC broke the $10 barrier many moons ago...

[sgk]

Nice OP. I always thought there was something really wrong with XMR as the prices were too damn high for a clone coin. The artificial hype created by troll accounts explains this.

From the day I came to know about cryptonote, I have always supported Bytecoin, which is the first and original cryptonote coin. I am a bit concerned about the 80% mined coins, but I'm hopeful that this will be addressed in future in the betterment of the coin.

[iCEBREAKER]

Nice OP. I always thought there was something really wrong with XMR as the prices were too damn high for a clone coin.

Monero is a fork of Bytecoin, not a "clone."  The clone of Bytecoin is called Dash.  http://dashcoin.net/

The market is firmly indicating changes/innovations implemented by the Monero fork make it much more valuable than the original Bytecoin.

[fluffypony]

Nice OP. I always thought there was something really wrong with XMR as the prices were too damn high for a clone coin. The artificial hype created by troll accounts explains this.

http://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits/master
http://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits/development

The prices are high because we have diverged from the CryptoNote reference implementation ages ago. Also, it's important to understand what that means, and to understand that we did not "clone" Bytecoin (although TFT did use their code base initially), we effectively used the CryptoNote reference implementation (which, in and of itself, is also forked from Bytecoin). You'll notice that in both our original forked code, and the CryptoNote reference code, that the only developers credited are "the CryptoNote developers", not the "Bytecoin developers".

From the day I came to know about cryptonote, I have always supported Bytecoin, which is the first and original cryptonote coin. I am a bit concerned about the 80% mined coins, but I'm hopeful that this will be addressed in future in the betterment of the coin.

As mentioned above, Bytecoin is merely the reference implementation of CryptoNote. Just like we don't use Bitcoin's testnet for regular transactions, it's probably unwise to use CryptoNote's reference testbed (Bytecoin). I'm also excited to find out how you imagine they're going to get rid of the premine. Are they going to null out the blockchain and start from scratch?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I always thought there was something really wrong with XMR...

What exactly is "really wrong" with XMR? Please, provide some evidence of any wrong doing, if you can.

Anything at all. Or you're a troll.

[smooth]

Nice OP. I always thought there was something really wrong with XMR as the prices were too damn high for a clone coin.

Monero is a fork of Bytecoin, not a "clone."  The clone of Bytecoin is called Dash.  http://dashcoin.net/

The market is firmly indicating changes/innovations implemented by the Monero fork make it much more valuable than the original Bytecoin.

I don't know if it is all innovations, maybe some of it is.

A lot of it is just transparency, communication, trust, integrity, a team that is too large and diverse for any sort of scam or conspiracy theory to fly (though you know such attacks will be made anyway), a clean and fair launch, etc. Even if XMR were an exact clone of BCN code-wise, at this point I would still put my money on XMR doing better. A lot better. Of course it isn't limited to just being a clone, and your point is well taken on that score.

Engaging in fraud and creating a fake blockchain and fake documents to back that up does not serve as a solid foundation for a coin. Once you start down the road of lies and deception and that's all you'll ever have. There is no escape.

The BCN code was fine (or at least mostly fine), and served as a good starting point for XMR. The whole value system, strategy, and complete lack of integrity behind BCN was most certainly not fine. That, and that alone, got them exactly where they are.

[smoothie]

Translation of OP: "I am butthurt and XMR is a scam."

Lol

[Cheesus]

H2. Monero's trade volumes are artificial

Fact one — large daily emission
Monero is emitted at the rate of roughly 22,000 XMR/day at the moment. At the time of writing this is roughly 78 BTC or $40,000.

Take a look at the XMR emission chart (depicted as "Bitmonero"). The emission rate is much higher than Bitcoin's or pretty much any other PoW altcoin.

proof, mirror

Fact two — botnets
Monero is largely botnet mined and that has been confirmed on a number of occasions (even by the XMR devs themselves):

1. A 4 MHash/sec botnet confirmed (you may wish to read several pages starting with the post below, as there are some speculations on botnet mining economy):

proof, mirror

2. Two other botnet operators have been confirmed. How many botnets do those operators have? What is their hash rate? Nobody knows.

proof, mirror

3. What's more, there is an infamous XMR silent miner issue (used as a botnet software that runs on the vulnerable PCs):
XMR silent miner is being actively sold for $10

4. Monero Stealth miner affecting PCs already in June 2014 (mirror)

5. Here's a link to the virus base with this trojan (link from the thread above): https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e2e6b6938879142c4e35542b5fe8d3eeec7bf9e682f915213fda009097c3878e/analysis/1401909211/

6. Another report on the issue on Reddit. Check this comment.


Fact three — whale support
rpietila is currently a Monero whale. Being a bitcoin millionaire he's capable of buying out large stakes of XMR that are dumped on the market. I'm not going to mirror those links, as everyone knows that rpietila is a whale and supports XMR. E.g.: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=702140


Fact four — natural trend is declining
During the last 4 months that have passed since Monero launch, the price has never broken the peak. It simply fails to grow in spite of all the PR hype and fake forum activity. Of course, there are periods of growth, but have a look at the historic chart:

Below the chart you may see the trade volumes. When XMR is being traded as usual at 100 BTC volume (standard XMR market behavior), the price gradually declines. The explanation for that is fairly simple (go back to facts #1 and #2). The botnet owners are slowly dumping their coins and drive XMR market down.

Secondly, notice that upward trend coincides with the significant spikes in volume (up to 300 BTC and more). Recheck it with #1 and #3. As the natural demand can in no way match the botnet supply, someone has to step in from time to time to help get it going further. This is most likely the whale buying large XMR sizes out. Alternatively, the XMR trade volume spikes may also be someone on the core team trying to sustain the price.

 
Implications

That being said, XMR is likely to be mined mostly by the botnets at the rate that is not justified by the demand. Botnet owners dump the coin as it is not showing any stable growth. That's it folks, the 78 BTC of daily trades come simply from the daily emission rate being pushed to the market. No surprise, why the price is generally going down.

Why is that so? CryptoNote has created new ways for the botnet owners to profit. Monero was largely botnet mined from the inception, so the main stakeholders are basically botnet operators. How do you make sure your profits are secure? You need someone buying out those daily volumes. There are two simple ways to ensure that:

1. Artificial PR/hype through purchased hero accounts.
2. Secure yourself a whale.

This has serious implications and may actually link us back to H1 on fake marketing/PR hype. Botnet owners are securing their profits by purchasing accounts and hiring shills. However, everything they do is for just one particular purpose: profit from their botnet mined coin. They make you feel that XMR is largely supported so that you give your money to them.

It's hard to say whether XMR core team is involved. Of course, they would deny any potential connection. However, I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on.

Another point is that I'm not sure why such a prominent investor and cryptocurrency activist as rpietila supports the coin with such serious issues. I assume that he was somehow tricked into believing that XMR has the future. It might also be the case that core developers are not seeing the whole picture themselces and honestly believe that Monero is actually supported by a large number of people who are willing to buy more and more Monero. However, the reality is that all these people are dead wrong. Monero is being dominated by botnet owners; everything they do with the black PR techniques is to fuel its scam growth. My last thought might be a bit brave, but could rpietila's money be the actual target of this scam scheme?

Don't worry, XMR will be deep mined in half a year. When the emission declines to 20 BTC per day, the botnet interest will disappear naturally. After they choose another victim, the Monero's black PR hype will disappear and the coin will fall down.

If you're not convinced, you may continue giving your USD to botnet owners in exchange of worthless XMR.

Hypothesis 2 is accepted. Monero's trades are artificial.

[fluffypony]

I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on

A cryptocurrency growing in popularity is being mined by botnets?? It can't be, this is surely unprecedented in all the history of all the world!

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/07/botcoin-bitcoin-mining-by-botnet/
http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-destroys-bitcoin-mining-botnet-sefnit/
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2332589/bitcoin-mining-botnets-and-windows-xp-threats-are-booming-says-dell-sonicwall
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2225927/security/gaming-company-caught-building-bitcoin-mining-botnet-from-users--computers-gets-off-light.html
http://www.scmagazine.com/bitcoin-mining-botnet-has-become-one-of-the-most-prevalent-cyber-threats/article/288315/
http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/bitcoin-botnet-mining
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-25653664
http://www.zdnet.com/nas-device-botnet-mined-600000-in-dogecoin-over-two-months-7000030662/
http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/25/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-compromise-pony-botnet/
http://blogs.mcafee.com/mcafee-labs/delving-deeply-into-a-bitcoin-botnet
http://securelist.com/blog/incidents/30863/the-miner-botnet-bitcoin-mining-goes-peer-to-peer-33/
http://bitcoinvox.com/article/883/litecoin-mining-botnet-using-cloud-accounts
http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/1uvz7m/litecoin_botnet_killing_difficulty/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2452080/facebook-kills-lecpetex-botnet-which-hit-250000-computers.html
http://www.webroot.com/blog/2013/07/22/yet-another-commercially-available-stealth-bitcoinlitecoin-mining-tool-spotted-in-the-wild/
http://www.esecurityplanet.com/malware/researchers-warn-of-litecoin-mining-malware.html
http://imaginarymarkets.com/the-doge-report-rampaging-scrypt-botnet-jumps-from-litecoin-onto-dogecoin-causes-fear-and-panic/

And what are we supposed to do about fake accounts? Where we see them they get called out by us:

Monero has no cons while other altcoins have the same number of pros! So the right answer is obvious.

How can you compare this stupid altcoins with God blessed Monero?!

Never compare XMR with others coins. You know why? Because it is ridiculous.

Whoever is running this newbie-shill-train...this is getting more than a little tiring.

Seriously, what more must we do? It's a waste of time and effort calling out fake accounts - you should know, you've already been caught out as being a fake account.

If you're not convinced, you may continue giving your USD to botnet owners in exchange of worthless XMR

So you're suggesting people in a cryptocurrency forum stick to USD...?

[rpietila]

I am open to use some of my time to answer questions.

[Rias]

I am open to use some of my time to answer questions.

I have a couple of questions related to this thread.

1. What is your opinion on Monero botnet issue? Apparently, the coin is largely botnet mined to be dumped on the exchange?
2. Is that really posting you on Polo trollbox?

[farfiman]

I don't see what the botnet has to do with anything.
Don't many (or most) miners sell the coins they mine anyway?

[whap]

Cheesus Christ! Your fishy assumptions and accusations become more and more desperate.

Funny fact that you voted for the curve to stay as shown in the graph, so now you contradict yourself. Despite the fact that Bitmonero is not Monero...

Voted for the #20 curve.

I know it's selfish and all but I think that early adopters should earn more since they are taking the huge risk.

When adopting coin early you can't know for sure if you're going to win or lose. You're dedicating your hashpower to something that is not yet valued - you can be screwed big time.

So, the way I see it - curve should be left untouched.

Btw, the actual emission rate of Monero looks like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622708.msg8317115#msg8317115


There's absolutely no difference between XMR PR/hype compared to any other coin. Your wishful thinking of purchased Hero-accounts is proven to be wrong at the beginning of this thread.
And you are blaming the Monero project for having renowned Bitcoin Whales inside their community, that's odd man. There's a reason why they decided to support Monero instead of one of the other 400 Altcoins...

Boy somehow you made me laugh, anyway
/ignored

[rpietila]

I am open to use some of my time to answer questions.

I have a couple of questions related to this thread.

1. What is your opinion on Monero botnet issue? Apparently, the coin is largely botnet mined to be dumped on the exchange?
2. Is that really posting you on Polo trollbox?

1. I don't know anything about mining and cannot comment on that.

2. Yes. (If it sounds weird, it is due to the venue being "trollbox")

[Hexah]

Cheesus Christ! Your fishy assumptions and accusations become more and more desperate.

Funny fact that you voted for the curve to stay as shown in the graph, so now you contradict yourself. Despite the fact that Bitmonero is not Monero...

Voted for the #20 curve.

I know it's selfish and all but I think that early adopters should earn more since they are taking the huge risk.

When adopting coin early you can't know for sure if you're going to win or lose. You're dedicating your hashpower to something that is not yet valued - you can be screwed big time.

So, the way I see it - curve should be left untouched.

Btw, the actual emission rate of Monero looks like this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622708.msg8317115#msg8317115


There's absolutely no difference between XMR PR/hype compared to any other coin. Your wishful thinking of purchased Hero-accounts is proven to be wrong at the beginning of this thread.
And you are blaming the Monero project for having renowned Bitcoin Whales inside their community, that's odd man. There's a reason why they decided to support Monero instead of one of the other 400 Altcoins...

Boy somehow you made me laugh, anyway
/ignored

Bitmonero is monero.
But what's in a name? that which we call a scam by any other name would be a scam;  

You have to get your facts straight before posting nonsense. It was originally launched as Bitmonero and after certain chain of events it became XMR we know and "love" today.

By the way, how are you going to justify the emission curve with this link ? It provides the data on April-May, not the whole emission curve. You know the difference, right?

As I've told before, get your god damn facts straight.

[othe]

Bitmonero was launched by you scammy bytecoin fags, the community took over and rescued it.

Nothing wrong with the emission curve anyway, its clear and unchanged and everyone knows it.

Thanks for bumping our thread again idiot.

[fluffypony]

You have to get your facts straight before posting nonsense. It was originally launched as Bitmonero and after certain chain of events it became XMR we know and "love" today.

Your theory (and I say your, because it's clear to everyone that, at the very least, you and Cheesus are the same person) is predicated on the high emission curve that you yourself voted for. Given this state of affairs, I think it's reasonable for us to conclude that the botnets are controlled and operated by you, the person who pushed for the emission curve.

[Hexah]

Bitmonero was launched by you scammy bytecoin fags, the community took over and rescued it.

Nothing wrong with the emission curve anyway, its clear and unchanged and everyone knows it.

Thanks for bumping our thread again idiot.

Keep your sockpuppets and their emission curve rap on a tight leash then. Rescuer my ass.

Monero is a scam and let's leave it at that