Unveiling the truth over the major Monero scam

[othe]

Bitmonero was launched by you scammy bytecoin fags, the community took over and rescued it.

Nothing wrong with the emission curve anyway, its clear and unchanged and everyone knows it.

Thanks for bumping our thread again idiot.

Keep your sockpuppets and their emission curve rap on a tight leash then. Rescuer my ass.

Bytecoin is a scam and let's leave it at that

corrected and now back to your cave.

[parker928]

H2. Monero's trade volumes are artificial

Below the chart you may see the trade volumes. When XMR is being traded as usual at 100 BTC volume (standard XMR market behavior), the price gradually declines. The explanation for that is fairly simple (go back to facts #1 and #2). The botnet owners are slowly dumping their coins and drive XMR market down.

Secondly, notice that upward trend coincides with the significant spikes in volume (up to 300 BTC and more). Recheck it with #1 and #3. As the natural demand can in no way match the botnet supply, someone has to step in from time to time to help get it going further. This is most likely the whale buying large XMR sizes out. Alternatively, the XMR trade volume spikes may also be someone on the core team trying to sustain the price.

 
Implications

That being said, XMR is likely to be mined mostly by the botnets at the rate that is not justified by the demand. Botnet owners dump the coin as it is not showing any stable growth. That's it folks, the 78 BTC of daily trades come simply from the daily emission rate being pushed to the market. No surprise, why the price is generally going down.

Why is that so? CryptoNote has created new ways for the botnet owners to profit. Monero was largely botnet mined from the inception, so the main stakeholders are basically botnet operators. How do you make sure your profits are secure? You need someone buying out those daily volumes. There are two simple ways to ensure that:

1. Artificial PR/hype through purchased hero accounts.
2. Secure yourself a whale.

This has serious implications and may actually link us back to H1 on fake marketing/PR hype. Botnet owners are securing their profits by purchasing accounts and hiring shills. However, everything they do is for just one particular purpose: profit from their botnet mined coin. They make you feel that XMR is largely supported so that you give your money to them.

It's hard to say whether XMR core team is involved. Of course, they would deny any potential connection. However, I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on.

Another point is that I'm not sure why such a prominent investor and cryptocurrency activist as rpietila supports the coin with such serious issues. I assume that he was somehow tricked into believing that XMR has the future. It might also be the case that core developers are not seeing the whole picture themselces and honestly believe that Monero is actually supported by a large number of people who are willing to buy more and more Monero. However, the reality is that all these people are dead wrong. Monero is being dominated by botnet owners; everything they do with the black PR techniques is to fuel its scam growth. My last thought might be a bit brave, but could rpietila's money be the actual target of this scam scheme?

Don't worry, XMR will be deep mined in half a year. When the emission declines to 20 BTC per day, the botnet interest will disappear naturally. After they choose another victim, the Monero's black PR hype will disappear and the coin will fall down.

If you're not convinced, you may continue giving your USD to botnet owners in exchange of worthless XMR.

Hypothesis 2 is accepted. Monero's trades are artificial.

Jeeze it is such a waste of time responding to this when everyone else has already burned you alive so bad that you are saying "monero is a scam, leave it at that." In other words you have run out of bullshit and have resorted to high school grade stubbornness. Regardless, I have had so much coffee this morning that I would actually enjoy getting in on the gang rape which is skullfucking you and the rest of the BCN trolls into oblivion   *sips coffee*

Fact 1: You reference monero's emission curve, as if this argument had a shred of validity in supporting your scam accusation. I would not be the first person to argue that a smoothly declining emission curve with high initial block reward will ultimately be better for the distribution of the coin, bw allowing noobs and resources less people a change to ge in while the going is cheap, which if I am not mistaken, is SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN AN 82% PREMINE. The only thing worse than a ninja launch, IPO or bullshit 24 hour POW period, etc. is a huge fucking premine. Let me think of a good example of that...oh yeah, bytefuckingcoin. So if you pull your head out of your cock you will realize you are best off just not bringing up the emission curve because it will remind people of BCN's distribution and that is something you do not wan people to think about  

Fact 2: Botnets. Yes, there are botnets mining monero, and if you are so stupid as to assume monero is the only currency subject to botnet mining you are dumber than I though. Even if botnets could create a significant amount of downward price pressure compared absurdly powerful chinese GPU farms, which are not unicorns, that still does little to support your point that monero is a scam. All that means is here are a few people who can mine a bunch of them. There is absolutely nothing about that which is specific to monero. And your point about the trojans, whatever, still, not specific to monero. You are probably just jealous that none wants to mine your piece of shit coin...probably because even if there WERE any volume, none wants to have anything to do with an 82% premise...might as well just say fuck crypto and use USD.

3. Fact 3. Whale activity. Whale activity is something that is absolutely exclusive to monero and absolutely means it is a complete scam which will ultimately lead to the death of a coin and the skullfuckery of all investors.

Oh wait, whales are all over the place all the time. In fact, whales usually only play with coins that are at least remotely interesting. HMMM, guess that isn't a very good reason to believe monero is a scam.

4. Fact 4: natural trend is declining. In fact, the natural trend is INclining. I am not going to waste time teaching you how to read a graph and analyze an overall trend. Maybe your grandmother or sister can help you with that.

[parker928]

And the more I think about it, the more I realize how counterproductive your behavior is.

Why don' you just accept the fact that no one wants to use something that is 80+% pre mined and that trying to prop it up at the expense of XMR any longer is going to be nothing but a waste of effort?

A wise person would stop wasting time, give up on byte coin, and just buy monero. 2$ a coin right now...

Don't you realize you are better off just investing? It's like a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" type of deal

Bytecoin will never win, no matter how mad you are...

[Hexah]

H2. Monero's trade volumes are artificial

Below the chart you may see the trade volumes. When XMR is being traded as usual at 100 BTC volume (standard XMR market behavior), the price gradually declines. The explanation for that is fairly simple (go back to facts #1 and #2). The botnet owners are slowly dumping their coins and drive XMR market down.

Secondly, notice that upward trend coincides with the significant spikes in volume (up to 300 BTC and more). Recheck it with #1 and #3. As the natural demand can in no way match the botnet supply, someone has to step in from time to time to help get it going further. This is most likely the whale buying large XMR sizes out. Alternatively, the XMR trade volume spikes may also be someone on the core team trying to sustain the price.

 
Implications

That being said, XMR is likely to be mined mostly by the botnets at the rate that is not justified by the demand. Botnet owners dump the coin as it is not showing any stable growth. That's it folks, the 78 BTC of daily trades come simply from the daily emission rate being pushed to the market. No surprise, why the price is generally going down.

Why is that so? CryptoNote has created new ways for the botnet owners to profit. Monero was largely botnet mined from the inception, so the main stakeholders are basically botnet operators. How do you make sure your profits are secure? You need someone buying out those daily volumes. There are two simple ways to ensure that:

1. Artificial PR/hype through purchased hero accounts.
2. Secure yourself a whale.

This has serious implications and may actually link us back to H1 on fake marketing/PR hype. Botnet owners are securing their profits by purchasing accounts and hiring shills. However, everything they do is for just one particular purpose: profit from their botnet mined coin. They make you feel that XMR is largely supported so that you give your money to them.

It's hard to say whether XMR core team is involved. Of course, they would deny any potential connection. However, I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on.

Another point is that I'm not sure why such a prominent investor and cryptocurrency activist as rpietila supports the coin with such serious issues. I assume that he was somehow tricked into believing that XMR has the future. It might also be the case that core developers are not seeing the whole picture themselces and honestly believe that Monero is actually supported by a large number of people who are willing to buy more and more Monero. However, the reality is that all these people are dead wrong. Monero is being dominated by botnet owners; everything they do with the black PR techniques is to fuel its scam growth. My last thought might be a bit brave, but could rpietila's money be the actual target of this scam scheme?

Don't worry, XMR will be deep mined in half a year. When the emission declines to 20 BTC per day, the botnet interest will disappear naturally. After they choose another victim, the Monero's black PR hype will disappear and the coin will fall down.

If you're not convinced, you may continue giving your USD to botnet owners in exchange of worthless XMR.

Hypothesis 2 is accepted. Monero's trades are artificial.

blahblahbla...

4. Fact 4: natural trend is declining. In fact, the natural trend is INclining declining.

I am not going to waste time teaching you how to read a graph and analyze an overall trend. Maybe your grandmother or sister can help you with that.

Monero price goes down.

[othe]

Hahaha using a graph that goes to the 20. August when its the 26. August today, you guys are really so fucking stupid.

[drawingthesun]

I am not going to waste time teaching you how to read a graph and analyze an overall trend. Maybe your grandmother or sister can help you with that.

Monero price goes down.

Yeah, I just found another coin with a long downwards trajectory, it certainly has nothing going for it.

[Skinnkavaj]

Who cares if a botnet mines Monero? 99% of all coins have for sure been mined by botnets. Even bitcoin.
I'd say the botnet operators are smart and knows how to make money, that's why they mine it.

[Hexah]

Hahaha using a graph that goes to the 20. August when its the 26. August today, you guys are really so fucking stupid.

Well... this is August 26th




As you can see the price is going down... and you know why? Because Monero is a scam.

[MaxDZ8]

I am very concerned about this.
But seriously, I refuse to discard a coin just because it's botnet mined.
Other stuff... I will keep an eye on it. Something isn't quite fitting.

[drawingthesun]

I am very concerned about this.
But seriously, I refuse to discard a coin just because it's botnet mined.
Other stuff... I will keep an eye on it. Something isn't quite fitting.

What isn't fitting?

Perhaps the insane FUD campaign against this coin isn't quite fitting, I actually see it as a metric of how valid this coin really is.

The more people that fight us shows just how many people are going to be displaced by us.

[Wanesst]

H2. Monero's trade volumes are artificial

Fact one — large daily emission
Monero is emitted at the rate of roughly 22,000 XMR/day at the moment. At the time of writing this is roughly 78 BTC or $40,000.

Take a look at the XMR emission chart (depicted as "Bitmonero"). The emission rate is much higher than Bitcoin's or pretty much any other PoW altcoin.

proof, mirror

Fact two — botnets
Monero is largely botnet mined and that has been confirmed on a number of occasions (even by the XMR devs themselves):

1. A 4 MHash/sec botnet confirmed (you may wish to read several pages starting with the post below, as there are some speculations on botnet mining economy):

proof, mirror

2. Two other botnet operators have been confirmed. How many botnets do those operators have? What is their hash rate? Nobody knows.

proof, mirror

3. What's more, there is an infamous XMR silent miner issue (used as a botnet software that runs on the vulnerable PCs):
XMR silent miner is being actively sold for $10

4. Monero Stealth miner affecting PCs already in June 2014 (mirror)

5. Here's a link to the virus base with this trojan (link from the thread above): https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e2e6b6938879142c4e35542b5fe8d3eeec7bf9e682f915213fda009097c3878e/analysis/1401909211/

6. Another report on the issue on Reddit. Check this comment.


Fact three — whale support
rpietila is currently a Monero whale. Being a bitcoin millionaire he's capable of buying out large stakes of XMR that are dumped on the market. I'm not going to mirror those links, as everyone knows that rpietila is a whale and supports XMR. E.g.: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=702140


Fact four — natural trend is declining
During the last 4 months that have passed since Monero launch, the price has never broken the peak. It simply fails to grow in spite of all the PR hype and fake forum activity. Of course, there are periods of growth, but have a look at the historic chart:

Below the chart you may see the trade volumes. When XMR is being traded as usual at 100 BTC volume (standard XMR market behavior), the price gradually declines. The explanation for that is fairly simple (go back to facts #1 and #2). The botnet owners are slowly dumping their coins and drive XMR market down.

Secondly, notice that upward trend coincides with the significant spikes in volume (up to 300 BTC and more). Recheck it with #1 and #3. As the natural demand can in no way match the botnet supply, someone has to step in from time to time to help get it going further. This is most likely the whale buying large XMR sizes out. Alternatively, the XMR trade volume spikes may also be someone on the core team trying to sustain the price.

 
Implications

That being said, XMR is likely to be mined mostly by the botnets at the rate that is not justified by the demand. Botnet owners dump the coin as it is not showing any stable growth. That's it folks, the 78 BTC of daily trades come simply from the daily emission rate being pushed to the market. No surprise, why the price is generally going down.

Why is that so? CryptoNote has created new ways for the botnet owners to profit. Monero was largely botnet mined from the inception, so the main stakeholders are basically botnet operators. How do you make sure your profits are secure? You need someone buying out those daily volumes. There are two simple ways to ensure that:

1. Artificial PR/hype through purchased hero accounts.
2. Secure yourself a whale.

This has serious implications and may actually link us back to H1 on fake marketing/PR hype. Botnet owners are securing their profits by purchasing accounts and hiring shills. However, everything they do is for just one particular purpose: profit from their botnet mined coin. They make you feel that XMR is largely supported so that you give your money to them.

It's hard to say whether XMR core team is involved. Of course, they would deny any potential connection. However, I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on.

Another point is that I'm not sure why such a prominent investor and cryptocurrency activist as rpietila supports the coin with such serious issues. I assume that he was somehow tricked into believing that XMR has the future. It might also be the case that core developers are not seeing the whole picture themselces and honestly believe that Monero is actually supported by a large number of people who are willing to buy more and more Monero. However, the reality is that all these people are dead wrong. Monero is being dominated by botnet owners; everything they do with the black PR techniques is to fuel its scam growth. My last thought might be a bit brave, but could rpietila's money be the actual target of this scam scheme?

Don't worry, XMR will be deep mined in half a year. When the emission declines to 20 BTC per day, the botnet interest will disappear naturally. After they choose another victim, the Monero's black PR hype will disappear and the coin will fall down.

If you're not convinced, you may continue giving your USD to botnet owners in exchange of worthless XMR.

Hypothesis 2 is accepted. Monero's trades are artificial.

I've made an image for your research



Full size

[rpietila]

The picture omitted the important fact that I buy up all the coins every day, and the fraud will be perpetuated as long as I have money. Request addition. 

[ArticMine]

I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on

A cryptocurrency growing in popularity is being mined by botnets?? It can't be, this is surely unprecedented in all the history of all the world!

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/07/botcoin-bitcoin-mining-by-botnet/
http://www.coindesk.com/microsoft-destroys-bitcoin-mining-botnet-sefnit/
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2332589/bitcoin-mining-botnets-and-windows-xp-threats-are-booming-says-dell-sonicwall
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2225927/security/gaming-company-caught-building-bitcoin-mining-botnet-from-users--computers-gets-off-light.html
http://www.scmagazine.com/bitcoin-mining-botnet-has-become-one-of-the-most-prevalent-cyber-threats/article/288315/
http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/bitcoin-botnet-mining
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-25653664
http://www.zdnet.com/nas-device-botnet-mined-600000-in-dogecoin-over-two-months-7000030662/
http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/25/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-compromise-pony-botnet/
http://blogs.mcafee.com/mcafee-labs/delving-deeply-into-a-bitcoin-botnet
http://securelist.com/blog/incidents/30863/the-miner-botnet-bitcoin-mining-goes-peer-to-peer-33/
http://bitcoinvox.com/article/883/litecoin-mining-botnet-using-cloud-accounts
http://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/1uvz7m/litecoin_botnet_killing_difficulty/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2452080/facebook-kills-lecpetex-botnet-which-hit-250000-computers.html
http://www.webroot.com/blog/2013/07/22/yet-another-commercially-available-stealth-bitcoinlitecoin-mining-tool-spotted-in-the-wild/
http://www.esecurityplanet.com/malware/researchers-warn-of-litecoin-mining-malware.html
http://imaginarymarkets.com/the-doge-report-rampaging-scrypt-botnet-jumps-from-litecoin-onto-dogecoin-causes-fear-and-panic/

...

So you're suggesting people in a cryptocurrency forum stick to USD...?

I am going to focus on the botnet issue because it is the only valid criticism I have seen of XMR among pages and pages of anti XMR posts. As fluffypony has correctly pointed out above virtually every POW coin and all POS coins are vulnerable to this. The notable exceptions at this point is XBT, and coins such as NMC that are merged mined with XBT because of ASIC mining. To understand and deal with this issue we must go to the root cause and recognize a fundamental flaw in distributed crypto currency models:

The false assumption that most people particularly consumers actually control their computing devices

The only people that have real control are those who run a FLOSS operating system such as GNU/Linux or Android/Linux and have root access to their computer or device. This excludes that vast majority including over 98% of desktop / laptop computers running propriety Microsoft Windows or OS X and almost all mobile devices with the exception of rooted Android or some GNU/Linux based devices. There are two kinds of attacks here:

1) DRM based attacks. In this scenario the operating system vendor uses the DRM built into a propriety operating system to attack the coin. Since all popular propriety operating systems are infected with DRM this kind of attack can happen any time, either by the OS vendor on their own accord or at the request of a government actor. The best example of this is the attack by Apple on XBT since XBT's inception in 2009 until earlier this year on the Apple IOS platform. 

2) Malware / botnet based attacks. These are most common on Microsoft Windows since this OS is particularly vulnerable to malware. The reasons behind this are beyond this discussion.

The solution here is to move the functions critical to the security of a coin away from DRM infected propriety operating systems such as Microsoft Windows to FLOSS operating systems such as GNU/Linux. In particular with a POW coin this means mining. This can be accomplished in a CPU / GPU coin by developing, releasing and supporting mining software only on GNU/Linux, and even going as far as avoiding cross platform development tools for the mining components. Making the mining software highly optimized for GNU/Linux. Targeting the ARM platform for mining is also a possibility. The idea is to make mining the coin far more efficient on GNU/Linux than on Microsoft Windows thereby putting botnets at a significant disadvantage.

[flipme]

The picture omitted the important fact that I buy up all the coins every day, and the fraud will be perpetuated as long as I have money. Request addition. 

I'm sure you've heard of the proverb of what happens between FOOLS<->MONEY....

[smoothie]

Lol trade volume isn't faked. I've been buying. Not a surprise it has daily trade volume that dwarfs any other coin on poloniex.

OP wouldn't know this because he probably can't buy a fraction of the daily trade volume ...so obviously it must be faked lol

 

[Anotheranonlol]

I am going to focus on the botnet issue because it is the only valid criticism I have seen of XMR among pages and pages of anti XMR posts. As fluffypony has correctly pointed out above virtually every POW coin and all POS coins are vulnerable to this. The notable exceptions at this point is XBT, and coins such as NMC that are merged mined with XBT because of ASIC mining. To understand and deal with this issue we must go to the root cause and recognize a fundamental flaw in distributed crypto currency models:

The solution here is to move the functions critical to the security of a coin away from DRM infected propriety operating systems such as Microsoft Windows to FLOSS operating systems such as GNU/Linux. In particular with a POW coin this means mining. This can be accomplished in a CPU / GPU coin by developing, releasing and supporting mining software only on GNU/Linux, and even going as far as avoiding cross platform development tools for the mining components. Making the mining software highly optimized for GNU/Linux. Targeting the ARM platform for mining is also a possibility. The idea is to make mining the coin far more efficient on GNU/Linux than on Microsoft Windows thereby putting botnets at a significant disadvantage.

This excludes that vast majority including over 98% of desktop / laptop computers running propriety Microsoft Windows or OS X

Since when do people not get root access on OSX or have control of their system? Sure Apple has a walled garden with gatekeeper and AMFI by default, a user can override this if they wish. It's not really DRM as much as it is codesigning enforcement.

All coins are of course vulnerable to botnet mining,  CPU coins especially so. The largest XMR miner on minergate, botnet also. There are numerous ones mining XMR, and more will come for sure as the coin increases in value & exposure. I don't see it as huge issue personally, botherder tend to dump regularly instead of hoard. In some cases the market will feel no impact, because smart accumulator comes along with some webmoney to speak with, for all he knows is a AWS miner. Trying (and failing) to relegate CPU/GPU PoW on 'gnu/linux' than windows won't fix anything in long-term and it simply creates an uneven playing field and diminishes the user base

[darlidada]

We need someone to create lyrics about this thread, then hire a singer and make a song about all this craziness. This has the potential to become zhoutonged material. I'm already ready to donate.

The picture is very nice. Dont forget to mention rpietilia though!

I love the idea of "Black PR hype". Keep the good work guys!

[Anotheranonlol]

We need someone to create lyrics about this thread, then hire a singer and make a song about all this craziness. This has the potential to become zhoutonged material. I'm already ready to donate.

The picture is very nice. Dont forget to mention rpietilia though!

I love the idea of "Black PR hype". Keep the good work guys!

Yes, this has to be marketing for XMR, or at least CN. Intentionally creating a bit of buzz and mystery to this saga. Does a great job for proliferation of this tech

[smooth]

Why don' you just accept the fact that no one wants to use something that is 80+% pre mined and that trying to prop it up at the expense of XMR any longer is going to be nothing but a waste of effort?

Because scorched earth and the type of megalomanic who thinks he can pull off a hidden 82% premine by lying to the entire world creating a fake blockchain, fake documents, fake websites and organzations (cryptonote foundation? plua-ese), etc. to back it up is likely prone to anger when the world does not bow to his obvious greatness.

I appreciate their unintentional support though. Nobody attacks an unsuccessful coin. I don't even bother to try to educate people about the bytecoin fraud any more. It just isn't worth the effort for a $60/day coin.

[smooth]

We need someone to create lyrics about this thread, then hire a singer and make a song about all this craziness. This has the potential to become zhoutonged material. I'm already ready to donate.

The picture is very nice. Dont forget to mention rpietilia though!

I love the idea of "Black PR hype". Keep the good work guys!

Yes, this has to be marketing for XMR, or at least CN. Intentionally creating a bit of buzz and mystery to this saga. Does a great job for proliferation of this tech

Yes, Cheesus, Hexah, and Rias are Monero shill accounts. You figured it out, congrats!