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Author Topic: Gigamining / Teramining  (Read 201683 times)
jamesg
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September 10, 2012, 07:53:53 PM
 #821

Just wanted to throw in my say.  I'm going to have to agree that a tiered fee does seem like a bad idea, for the same reasons already stated.  I also feel that .40BTC is too high a price for the upgrade given the way the market looks currently.

So if we got rid of the tiered pricing and moved to price to .30 BTC, would this be an acceptable change along with the 90% PPS?
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September 10, 2012, 07:54:04 PM
 #822


Can you give any explanation as to what your actual cut is in this, and why it seems you're taking a seemingly insane cut, barring there has been some major issues along the way you forgot to tell us?

I'm an running this bond to make money. I'm not sure where you got the idea that this was a charitable venture. Every bond sale thus far has netted 100% initial capital outlays. I would expect nothing less from the release of the Teramining bond otherwise there is no reason to do it.

I'm not saying I think you're not running this for profit. I'm saying that with 1.5 free terahash by trading your 3 current minirig for half a free ASIC each, and if selling your GPU rig would fetch you for about an extra half the price of an ASIC rig (already paid by investors), you only need another 2 terahash (2 rigs equivalent) to fund the remaining of the TERAMINING hashing at 100 mhash per share.

Or ~5500 BTC (2750 BTC / ASIC rig)

You're asking for about 40000 x (0.30 - 0.40) = 12 000 to 16 000 BTC. A 54% to  65% cut for you. And the new 90% PPS proposed would take 10% more of what's left (about 4% - 5% more). 60 - 70% cut total.

It just seems like the upgrade is actually charging us the full price of the ASICs + cut, completely ignoring the fact the FPGA rigs/GPU were paid for (40 000 BTC I believe?) by the investors on the initial IPO and can partially pay/be traded for the ASICs.

Your cut is seemingly more than twice to quintuple the cut others take, hence why I'd like to know the actual numbers on your side and your actual cut.

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September 10, 2012, 07:57:47 PM
 #823

Just wanted to throw in my say.  I'm going to have to agree that a tiered fee does seem like a bad idea, for the same reasons already stated.  I also feel that .40BTC is too high a price for the upgrade given the way the market looks currently.

So if we got rid of the tiered pricing and moved to price to .30 BTC, would this be an acceptable change along with the 90% PPS?
I like the tiered pricing as it encourages people to buy more bulk and bigger volumes which A, makes the job easier for you and B encourages people to buy more and invest more heavily into GigaMining which I think is good Smiley
//DeaDTera
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September 10, 2012, 07:58:56 PM
 #824

Just wanted to throw in my say.  I'm going to have to agree that a tiered fee does seem like a bad idea, for the same reasons already stated.  I also feel that .40BTC is too high a price for the upgrade given the way the market looks currently.

So if we got rid of the tiered pricing and moved to price to .30 BTC, would this be an acceptable change along with the 90% PPS?

I find this acceptable.

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September 10, 2012, 08:00:46 PM
 #825

I find this acceptable.

Hi sp0rus,

Thanks for your input.

Best,
gigavps
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September 10, 2012, 08:05:51 PM
 #826

Just wanted to throw in my say.  I'm going to have to agree that a tiered fee does seem like a bad idea, for the same reasons already stated.  I also feel that .40BTC is too high a price for the upgrade given the way the market looks currently.

So if we got rid of the tiered pricing and moved to price to .30 BTC, would this be an acceptable change along with the 90% PPS?

I find this acceptable.

I'd prefer this as well.

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September 10, 2012, 08:28:24 PM
 #827

Just wanted to throw in my say.  I'm going to have to agree that a tiered fee does seem like a bad idea, for the same reasons already stated.  I also feel that .40BTC is too high a price for the upgrade given the way the market looks currently.

So if we got rid of the tiered pricing and moved to price to .30 BTC, would this be an acceptable change along with the 90% PPS?

I find this acceptable.

Ditto.

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September 10, 2012, 08:54:00 PM
 #828

I understand that you are in this for profit, aint we all. But then it's in your best interest to be able to compete with BitBonds offering, I feel that 0.4 might be a bit high in comparison to the other options that exist on the market right now.
//DeaDTerra

I agree with this.

When I had posted before, I was strictly stating that I am not in favor of tiered pricing and that a 10% PPS fee for ongoing management and maintenance does in fact seem reasonable. The price of .40 seems quite high relative to other offerings and I believe DeaDTerra hit the nail on the head.

With regards back to the 10% PPS fee, I as well as many others would love to see a breakdown of how that btc will be utilized. Of course, it would be impossible for you to create a definitive list with exact values, but even doing a rough estimation would greatly improve our total understanding of the venture.
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September 10, 2012, 09:25:31 PM
 #829

With regards back to the 10% PPS fee, I as well as many others would love to see a breakdown of how that btc will be utilized. Of course, it would be impossible for you to create a definitive list with exact values, but even doing a rough estimation would greatly improve our total understanding of the venture.

Hi Factory,

3% will go right off the top to multiple pools to help with development, support and their hosting costs. With 4Th controlled by one individual, I do not want to be seen in any way as a threat to the network, hence the need to be able to run on multiple pools and to be able to support them over the long term.

The other 7% will hopefully cover the rack space, internet usage and power needs of the equipment. Since the new BFL SC Mini Rigs have the option to be rack mountable, I feel this is the best way to go. I am currently looking into data center costs for hosting the equipment. These machines will still have large power requirements so it will require some more time to find a suitable data center.

Also, part of the continued fee will go towards the time I spend managing the equipment. While it is true that the mini rigs are less prone to dying than GPU rigs, there are still issues with random computer and mining software crashes which still need to be monitored.

Best,
gigavps
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September 10, 2012, 11:04:30 PM
 #830

Just wanted to throw in my say.  I'm going to have to agree that a tiered fee does seem like a bad idea, for the same reasons already stated.  I also feel that .40BTC is too high a price for the upgrade given the way the market looks currently.

So if we got rid of the tiered pricing and moved to price to .30 BTC, would this be an acceptable change along with the 90% PPS?
I like the tiered pricing as it encourages people to buy more bulk and bigger volumes which A, makes the job easier for you and B encourages people to buy more and invest more heavily into GigaMining which I think is good Smiley
//DeaDTera

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September 10, 2012, 11:13:50 PM
 #831

To all Gigaminers:

From the current feedback received,  I would like to propose the following changes to the upcoming Teramining contract.

  • Each bond will be at 22.5Mh/s which is 90% PPS of 25Mh/s.
  • Upgrade price will change to .3 BTC from .25 BTC.

Please continue the discussion. I am in no way perfect and rely on your feedback to make sure Gigamining/Teramining continues into the future.

Best,
gigavps
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September 10, 2012, 11:26:09 PM
 #832

I recommend that you keep the original terms if they keep whining. Any upgrade that gives the any value above the price of the upgrade will be taken with open arms by them. Don't bend yourself over a barrel for people who are just going to bitch and complain.

I would probably have a different attitude if I owned any though Smiley

also, load up your miners on whatever pool costs the least. Let those who value decentralization pay the cost for it.

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September 11, 2012, 05:56:16 AM
 #833

  • Each bond will be at 22.5Mh/s which is 90% PPS of 25Mh/s.
  • Upgrade price will change to .3 BTC from .25 BTC.

Very reasonable.
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September 11, 2012, 06:16:02 AM
 #834

To all Gigaminers:

From the current feedback received,  I would like to propose the following changes to the upcoming Teramining contract.

  • Each bond will be at 22.5Mh/s which is 90% PPS of 25Mh/s.
  • Upgrade price will change to .3 BTC from .25 BTC.

Please continue the discussion. I am in no way perfect and rely on your feedback to make sure Gigamining/Teramining continues into the future.

Best,
gigavps

I am a lot confused now.

If I have 10 (5 Mhs) gigamining bonds now, what i have to do in future?
NO free upgrade path to teramining?
jamesg
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September 11, 2012, 07:35:05 AM
 #835

I am a lot confused now.

If I have 10 (5 Mhs) gigamining bonds now, what i have to do in future?
NO free upgrade path to teramining?

Hi dishwara,

Sorry for the confusion. There is still a free upgrade path. If you have 10 5Mh/s bonds now and choose the free path, you will have 10 22.5Mh/s bonds when Teramining comes out.

Hopes this helps.

gigavps
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September 11, 2012, 08:19:52 AM
 #836

I am a lot confused now.

If I have 10 (5 Mhs) gigamining bonds now, what i have to do in future?
NO free upgrade path to teramining?

Hi dishwara,

Sorry for the confusion. There is still a free upgrade path. If you have 10 5Mh/s bonds now and choose the free path, you will have 10 22.5Mh/s bonds when Teramining comes out.

Hopes this helps.

gigavps

Thanks.

So for 10 Gigamining bonds, if i pay 0.3 btc for each bond, i get 40 TERAMING bonds with each bond has 22.5 Mhs?
thats totally 900 Mhs?

If what i am saying is correct, then please update in OP.
It says 25Mhs instead of 22.5Mhs

seems you increased the price to get TERAMINING & also decreased Mhs
0.05 btc increased for each share, while 2.5 Mhs reduced for each share
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September 11, 2012, 08:23:03 AM
 #837

Thanks.

So for 10 Gigamining bonds, if i pay 0.3 btc for each bond, i get 40 TERAMING bonds with each bond has 22.5 Mhs?
thats totally 900 Mhs?

* gigavps whips out his calculator

This is correct. You would pay 3 BTC and end up with 900Mh/s when upgrading 10 Gigamining bonds to 40 Teramining bonds.
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September 11, 2012, 01:22:23 PM
 #838

Hmm, I do not like it, but 0.30 for 90 mhash is already better.

0.25 for 100 mhash seemed much more appropriate. That's 400 mhash/BTC for the upgrade, which is indeed a bit more than other ASIC offers on the market, but other offers don't already have FPGA rigs to trade in which would pay a large part of the upgrade. Seeing as those FPGA rigs were already paid for by investors (with a good cut for you already). And the upgrade would have also a similar cut for you with 0.25 per 100 mhash upgrade (once trade in of FPGA is deducted from the costs), I would still insist that 0.25 BTC per 100 mhash was already well priced.

Are you sure you cannot give us any numbers to support the need to raise the price and reduce the PPS? I usually like transparency.

I fully understand you are doing this for a profit. I just find such generic answer poorly satisfying after I've purchased bonds under the 0.25 BTC upgrade for 100 mhash upgrade claimed which was already on the upper limit of what I'd be willing to pay, especially since BFL didn't change their specifications.

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September 11, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
 #839

I guess I am not the only one who dislikes your upgrade tricks: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108704.0

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 11, 2012, 01:46:05 PM
 #840

Are you sure you cannot give us any numbers to support the need to raise the price and reduce the PPS? I usually like transparency.

Hi Namworld,

Here are most of the costs incurred every month to run my setup. This is by no means exhaustive and others costs almost always arrive.

Warehouse Rent / Colocation$1230
Utilities$1300
Internet$125
Security$40
Insurance$200
Accountant / Accounting Software$130
Replacement Costs$300
Total$3325

At the network being 200Th the 10% fee would be .2% of the network. At 25 BTC blocks this would generate 7.2 BTC per day and at $10 per BTC that would be $72 per day. Over the course of the month that would be $2,160/mo which is around what I would expect my costs to be around once GPU equipment is used for other things and they are no longer in the equation. These calculations are probably overly optimistic as the costs currently do not figure in any donations to pools.

I can understand the frustration around Teramining's terms being changed , but I think this is a better than Teramining defaulting on it's obligations at some point in the future.

Best,
gigavps
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