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Author Topic: Gigamining / Teramining  (Read 201420 times)
vrtrasura
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September 19, 2012, 04:24:20 PM
 #881

Giga, I like you but the thing I don't really get is this:

Originally you floated a .25 upgrade cost, we all filled out the form etc...  Based on that everyone got excited and the price spiked up to 1.10 or so.  Now it's moved up to .29, but in addition BTC has gone up several dollars since then.  The upgrade should be USD based since the cost of upgrading is USD based.  I think the gigamining has dropped in value because the upgrade cost is significantly more than we were expecting and that doesn't taste good.
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imsaguy
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September 19, 2012, 04:34:44 PM
 #882

Giga, I like you but the thing I don't really get is this:

Originally you floated a .25 upgrade cost, we all filled out the form etc...  Based on that everyone got excited and the price spiked up to 1.10 or so.  Now it's moved up to .29, but in addition BTC has gone up several dollars since then.  The upgrade should be USD based since the cost of upgrading is USD based.  I think the gigamining has dropped in value because the upgrade cost is significantly more than we were expecting and that doesn't taste good.

As price floats up, the risk the operators take on goes up.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
vrtrasura
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September 19, 2012, 04:48:27 PM
 #883

?

How does BTC going up increase the operators risk?  Please enlighten me.  My own mining equipment returns more as the price goes up, isn't the same true for Giga's cut from this operation?
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September 19, 2012, 04:51:04 PM
 #884

?

How does BTC going up increase the operators risk?  Please enlighten me.  My own mining equipment returns more as the price goes up, isn't the same true for Giga's cut from this operation?

If things were to go catastrophically wrong, things would ultimately be valued in dollars, not coins.  If the price goes up more quickly than diff, than the obligation is actually growing more quickly than the generation.  That delta becomes the risk.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
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September 19, 2012, 04:59:09 PM
 #885

Giga, I like you but the thing I don't really get is this:

Originally you floated a .25 upgrade cost, we all filled out the form etc...  Based on that everyone got excited and the price spiked up to 1.10 or so.  Now it's moved up to .29, but in addition BTC has gone up several dollars since then.  The upgrade should be USD based since the cost of upgrading is USD based.  I think the gigamining has dropped in value because the upgrade cost is significantly more than we were expecting and that doesn't taste good.

Sorry for not replying more, the flu has taken over my household.

As for your question, my opportunity cost for providing Teramining is not in dollars, it's in BTC.
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September 19, 2012, 05:44:56 PM
 #886

I'm not talking about anything other than the upgrade proposition.  BFL takes BTC yes, but the amount is based soley on USD.   It has nothing to do with BTC really.  Somebody just tell me to shut it if I'm way out of line. 
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September 19, 2012, 06:00:49 PM
 #887

I'm not talking about anything other than the upgrade proposition.  BFL takes BTC yes, but the amount is based soley on USD.   It has nothing to do with BTC really.  Somebody just tell me to shut it if I'm way out of line. 

My opportunity costs are:

  • Buying the ASIC equipment.
  • How many BTC I would make if I didn't offer Teramining.
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September 19, 2012, 06:09:57 PM
 #888

I'm not talking about anything other than the upgrade proposition.  BFL takes BTC yes, but the amount is based soley on USD.   It has nothing to do with BTC really.  Somebody just tell me to shut it if I'm way out of line. 

If that were the case, it's smarter to tie it to a less volatile instrument, such as a basket of weighted currencies and possibly precious metals.  Given QE∞, can we be sure that parts from Asia won't increase in price on a USD basis?

It's easier and more appropriate to the international Bitcoin community to talk BTC and not "BTC equivalent of $x."  Sometimes, the advantage of going from your native currency to BTC will be highly to your advantage, and sometimes it will be less so.
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September 19, 2012, 06:32:59 PM
 #889

Sure, but in this case the cost that gigamining shareholders are paying for is in USD.  BFL charged Gigavps in USD for the upgrade, why don't we as the shareholders contribute to him that equivalent amount in BTC?  I don't get how this has gotten so complicated, it should be pretty transparent.  I don't mind Giga taking extra cuts for running the operation or any of that - he deserves to, but the upgrade fee feels like it might be a big flat payout.  I guess we won't know until we find out how many share were upgraded, but if they all did 40k*.29*$12 we just paid $130k to do $100k worth of upgrades.  The problem with pre-valued the cost is .29BTC is that if BTC goes up or down Giga takes a loss or makes money.  As a share holder I'd rather help him assume that risk; I guess I think it shouldn't be pre-valued at all.
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September 20, 2012, 01:07:47 AM
 #890

?

How does BTC going up increase the operators risk?  Please enlighten me.  My own mining equipment returns more as the price goes up, isn't the same true for Giga's cut from this operation?

If things were to go catastrophically wrong, things would ultimately be valued in dollars, not coins.  If the price goes up more quickly than diff, than the obligation is actually growing more quickly than the generation.  That delta becomes the risk.

This answer is vague enough and confused enough that I can confidently say that it is wrong.

 Initial costs and operating costs are in dollars and these "risks" go down at the value of BTC rises. The dividend obligation is in BTC and does not vary with value. This "risk" is constant.

Though I think your suggestion of lowering the price as the value of BTC rises is a good one, remember that gigavps is free to structure the deal anyway he wants. Others will make their deals, which might be better or worse, and we are free to choose.

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September 21, 2012, 02:44:00 AM
 #891

Hey GigaVPS
What do you think about that:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0?

Are you familiar with that?
Are you concerned about that, if not why?
I'm curious about your opinion as a shareholder.

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September 23, 2012, 01:31:22 AM
 #892

Hey GigaVPS
What do you think about that:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0?

To all Gigaminers,

Even with Sonny's past coming to light, I am proud to do business with Sonny, Josh, Nasser and everyone else at Butterfly Labs. They are a great group of people and they have proven that they can over deliver on their latest product release (the mini rigs). Gigamining is run with a lot of BFL equipment and I am proud to continue to do so. Their equipment thus far have been revolutionary in bitcoin mining and I expect nothing less with their next generation ASIC products.

Best,
gigavps
szuetam
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September 23, 2012, 01:35:34 AM
 #893

Thank you for robust answer.
Smiley
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September 24, 2012, 10:24:48 AM
 #894

To all Gigaminers:

Coupon payments for the week have been paid.

Enjoy,
gigavps
szuetam
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September 25, 2012, 08:39:58 AM
 #895

I don't know if it is right place, but:

What if GLBSE will get closed by some circumstances (in example close by gov, or because default)?

Would I have still my shares?
Would it be possible to move to other Exchange operator without loosing our shares?

It seems possible for me, but I want to get your opinion GigaVPS?

It would be great if you could assure as that we are GLBSE-down-proof.

We would some no-GLBSE identification (private-public-key) between shareholders and you.
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September 25, 2012, 10:42:20 AM
 #896

What if GLBSE will get closed by some circumstances (in example close by gov, or because default)?

Hi szuetam,

Gigamining is completely reliant on glbse.com for a couple things.

  • Buy / selling of bonds between individuals.
  • Dividend disbursements.
  • Allowing individuals to see their holdings.

If glbse.com were to stop existing, it would be a nightmare. I'm sure if that were to happen, I could get a list of bond holders, withdrawal addresses and their holdings but verifying a couple hundred individuals would take a serious amount of time.

There is no good answer to glbse.com going away, but it's probably doable.

Best,
gigavps
DannyM
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September 25, 2012, 10:56:24 AM
 #897

If GLBSE goes away will the F.GIGA.ETF shares on MPEX still pay? Or are they tied to GLBSE shares?
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September 25, 2012, 11:00:24 AM
 #898

If GLBSE goes away will the F.GIGA.ETF shares on MPEX still pay? Or are they tied to GLBSE shares?

As long as I can get the following things from glbse.com in the event something bad happens, things should be able to continue normally.

glbse username
btc withdrawal address
bonds held by username

This should allow me to setup a script to send out payments without the need for anyone to verify anything.

I will contact Nefario today to make sure this is possible and if so, maybe he can set something up to dump this info out quickly.

Best,
gigavps
szuetam
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September 25, 2012, 11:37:44 AM
 #899

Yes, well...

I just asked because of Nefario - Goat problem:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112071.new;topicseen#new

But if Nefario is the only one that operates, then it's better than nothing.

I was worried because Goat's bonds desperado disappeared today and his account is not available to him anymore due to Nefario vs. Goat conflict.

But I will be much more calm if you will get that assurance, and confirm that. Smiley
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September 25, 2012, 01:20:13 PM
 #900

If GLBSE goes away will the F.GIGA.ETF shares on MPEX still pay? Or are they tied to GLBSE shares?

The F.GIGA.ETF asset was constructed based on controlling units of Gigavps' debt. Whether these are enbodied in GLBSE shares or not is irrelevant, as long as the issuer (Gigavps) still recognizes them.

The asset will continue to disburse any payments made by Gigavps, even though the collapse of GLBSE does pose some administrative problems.

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