Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pentax]

This company's rating has changed in the relaunched manufacturer trustworthiness thread.

Communication 4/10
Ethics 5/10



censoring information, which they do here and on their forum, should take that communications rating to 0

Ethics?  from what I can see they have none.  an endless series of missed delivery dates, screwing people they refunded in bitcoin by refunding bitcoin sent after price had tumbled, broken promise on price matching(which is huge), a total lack of fiat refunds as far as I know- and more.  

I am unfortunately one of their pre-order customers and I've been watching this all along.  what is most glaringly missing from their operation, aside from the ability to effectively develop mining equipment, IMO, is ethics.  they're attempting to hide behind a TOS that seemingly conflicts with Hong Kong law, their answers, when/if you can get them, on support and via e-mail are not answers at all in many cases but further excuses, and we are seeing cases now where people have requested refunds and their miners are being shipped out anyhow.  their resellers are also looking to me to be getting desperate as they claim they are not getting refunds from BA either and are therefore being forced to refund out of pocket, which is leading to their attempting to deny refunds and ship to people that have requested refunds also, which will undoubtedly lead to lawsuits and further actions against them also.

these people have created a total nightmare for just about everyone that has chosen to do business with them on this latest round of product

[BitCoin Operated Boy]

My posts were removed again. Please go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=711559.0;topicseen

Now, they really annoyed me. I will defo pay him a visit now 

[Pentax]

Seriously though, what is the hold up?  At this point, I can't understand why more units aren't shipping. 

Bobsag said he saw all the backplanes and boards for the X3 while he was there.  So why aren't they shipping?

that is a good question.  end of july is the latest target date.  no updates for quite some time now.  based on how this has gone to this point, that silence is not a good sign.  in the past it has meant a snag of some sort and further delays.

they will of course say they ARE shipping.  in volume?  it does not appear so in terms of the X-3 at least.

bobsag having to hop on a plane and fly to China is not a good sign either, as far as I'm concerned.  It's helpful to him and the customers, maybe/probably, but I know I'm not flying to the other side of the planet if I think everything is clicking along on schedule.  The only times I've ever done that are when people are totally fucking up and I'm losing my ass.  I sincerely feel for Minersource.  If the X-3's don't come out soon and they don't start seeing their refunds from BA they're going to end up in an increasingly difficult position that degrades fast at 5-6k a pop.

and it is noteworthy to point out that if they blow through another deadline, which seems all but certain, more people are likely to jump on the refund train, and will have every right to do so. 

[56k]

/FWZvJj]This company's rating has changed in the relaunched manufacturer trustworthiness thread.

Communication 4/10
Ethics 5/10



censoring information, which they do here and on their forum, should take that communications rating to 0

Ethics?  from what I can see they have none.  an endless series of missed delivery dates, screwing people they refunded in bitcoin by refunding bitcoin sent after price had tumbled, broken promise on price matching(which is huge), a total lack of fiat refunds as far as I know- and more.  

I am unfortunately one of their pre-order customers and I've been watching this all along.  what is most glaringly missing from their operation, aside from the ability to effectively develop mining equipment, IMO, is ethics.  they're attempting to hide behind a TOS that seemingly conflicts with Hong Kong law, their answers, when/if you can get them, on support and via e-mail are not answers at all in many cases but further excuses, and we are seeing cases now where people have requested refunds and their miners are being shipped out anyhow.  their resellers are also looking to me to be getting desperate as they claim they are not getting refunds from BA either and are therefore being forced to refund out of pocket, which is leading to their attempting to deny refunds and ship to people that have requested refunds also, which will undoubtedly lead to lawsuits and further actions against them also.

these people have created a total nightmare for just about everyone that has chosen to do business with them on this latest round of product

The Ethics is kind of a toss up call that can be based on alot of different things allowing for alot of float IMO

The Comm though lets be realistic here even BFL's josh talked crap which is more then BA is doing atm they have gone dark the only ones communicating are resellers unless they are talking directly to you ? That rating needs to go below BFL's for that area . That's not a grey area its fact .Their actual rep hasn't even dropped his weekly update in over 2 weeks now if he's even still employeed .

[Pentax]

/FWZvJj]This company's rating has changed in the relaunched manufacturer trustworthiness thread.

Communication 4/10
Ethics 5/10



censoring information, which they do here and on their forum, should take that communications rating to 0

Ethics?  from what I can see they have none.  an endless series of missed delivery dates, screwing people they refunded in bitcoin by refunding bitcoin sent after price had tumbled, broken promise on price matching(which is huge), a total lack of fiat refunds as far as I know- and more.  

I am unfortunately one of their pre-order customers and I've been watching this all along.  what is most glaringly missing from their operation, aside from the ability to effectively develop mining equipment, IMO, is ethics.  they're attempting to hide behind a TOS that seemingly conflicts with Hong Kong law, their answers, when/if you can get them, on support and via e-mail are not answers at all in many cases but further excuses, and we are seeing cases now where people have requested refunds and their miners are being shipped out anyhow.  their resellers are also looking to me to be getting desperate as they claim they are not getting refunds from BA either and are therefore being forced to refund out of pocket, which is leading to their attempting to deny refunds and ship to people that have requested refunds also, which will undoubtedly lead to lawsuits and further actions against them also.

these people have created a total nightmare for just about everyone that has chosen to do business with them on this latest round of product

The Ethics is kind of a toss up call that can be based on alot of different things allowing for alot of float IMO

The Comm though lets be realistic here even BFL's josh talked crap which is more then BA is doing atm they have gone dark the only ones communicating are resellers unless they are talking directly to you ? That rating needs to go below BFL's for that area . That's not a grey area its fact .Their actual rep hasn't even dropped his weekly update in over 2 weeks now if he's even still employeed .

yep, I think 'ethics' can be based on a lot of different things.   from my standpoint it seems to me that they're not following Hong Kong law and they've been intentionally stringing people along with delivery dates and promises of price matching and dangling the possibility of increased compensation; and they're delaying refunds for many reasons, none of which make actual sense if they raised the majority of this money from investors, which they claimed they did.

while I can see the business motivation to keep people from heading for the exits by dangling these carrots, the ethics of doing it in this fashion, and then seemingly pulling back that price matching promise at the 11th hour and leaving the compensation question, at best, unanswered are pretty questionable.  they'll point to the TOS and claim they are following that, while it seems clear that what they were promising all along these other areas of price matching etc. went well beyond a 50% hashrate compensation package (with no power supply, shipped who knows when)

anyhow, it's all good.  it's just the way I see it.  I've got no problems with people seeing it differently.

[56k]

I don't disagree with you at all on the ethics I'm just giving some latitude to that rating area but the Communication rating makes me question DOGIE's part in this .

[56k]

The second biggest issue with BA for the last few months Besides where is my Door stop=x1 or x3 take your pick, but what the hell is going on based around communication pretty much everything stated for the last few months has been vague or outright BS. Now they have gone dark "TO FOCUS ON SHIPPING" yet they get a mid range COM rating

[56k]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

[Pentax]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

that may well already be the case and probably is.

Here's a link to the former chinese law:

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

which states:

Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

[56k]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

that may well already be the case and probably is.

Here's a link to the former chinese law:

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

which states:

Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

Now the million dollar question is it being enforced ? Had BA been obligated by law to escrow the 70% they supposedly had on hand i bet those timelines would have been made or they would of bailed before the shit got real.

[Pentax]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

that may well already be the case and probably is.

Here's a link to the former chinese law:

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

which states:

Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

Now the million dollar question is it being enforced ? Had BA been obligated by law to escrow the 70% they supposedly had on hand i bet those timelines would have been made or they would of bailed before the shit got real.

doubtful.  they are registered in hong kong.  The plant, as we know, is in shenzhen.  different laws apply to the two places.  this one is for the lawyers to argue over.

[56k]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

Existing laws pretty much everywhere already give recourse for this kind of situation, it's just a matter of bringing the complaint and seeking restitution.

And how's that seeking recourse and getting restitution after the fact been going it needs to be applied to the front end i've seen a few cases recently that have abused the preorder kickstarter program and getting recourse after your money has been pissed down the drain isn't all that appealing to me.

[56k]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

that may well already be the case and probably is.

Here's a link to the former chinese law:

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

which states:

Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

Now the million dollar question is it being enforced ? Had BA been obligated by law to escrow the 70% they supposedly had on hand i bet those timelines would have been made or they would of bailed before the shit got real.

doubtful.  they are registered in hong kong.  The plant, as we know, is in shenzhen.  different laws apply to the two places.  this one is for the lawyers to argue over.

Yes i'm well aware of the shell game shady entity that BA is and the owners are scattered around the globe one in england supposedly and some in the islands and so on and so forth .

[Pentax]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

that may well already be the case and probably is.

Here's a link to the former chinese law:

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

which states:

Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

Now the million dollar question is it being enforced ? Had BA been obligated by law to escrow the 70% they supposedly had on hand i bet those timelines would have been made or they would of bailed before the shit got real.

doubtful.  they are registered in hong kong.  The plant, as we know, is in shenzhen.  different laws apply to the two places.  this one is for the lawyers to argue over.

Yes i'm well aware of the shell game shady entity that BA is and the owners are scattered around the globe one in england supposedly and some in the islands and so on and so forth .

yep, the question is why that structure exists.  why is the director in the UK, the plant in China and the registration in Hong Kong and WTF  is going on in the virgin islands?  what is the business reason for that?  they'll offer some mumbo jumbo, I'm sure, but it sure seems highly irregular. 

ya know Phinneaus Gage looks more and more like a genius every damn day......

[56k]

This is the flaw in kickstarters and preorders the less the actual company invest the less incentive or motivation they have to achieve the goal especially if under bad management. These companies need to be forced into outlaying a portion of funding into escrow or showing they have funds to back a % of investment or receive no funding through preorders or kickstarters . Getting an intrust free loan to piss down the drain because you have good intentions and an idea just is NOT working.

that may well already be the case and probably is.

Here's a link to the former chinese law:

http://www.china.org.cn/china/LegislationsForm2001-2010/2011-02/14/content_21917139.htm

which states:

Advance Payments

Advance payments, installment payments, and other transactions involving merchants’
management of consumer funds will require the establishment of earmarked, trusteeship
accounts at commercial banks.

Now the million dollar question is it being enforced ? Had BA been obligated by law to escrow the 70% they supposedly had on hand i bet those timelines would have been made or they would of bailed before the shit got real.

doubtful.  they are registered in hong kong.  The plant, as we know, is in shenzhen.  different laws apply to the two places.  this one is for the lawyers to argue over.

Yes i'm well aware of the shell game shady entity that BA is and the owners are scattered around the globe one in england supposedly and some in the islands and so on and so forth .

yep, the question is why that structure exists.  why is the director in the UK, the plant in China and the registration in Hong Kong and WTF  is going on in the virgin islands?  what is the business reason for that?  they'll offer some mumbo jumbo, I'm sure, but it sure seems highly irregular. 

ya know Phinneaus Gage looks more and more like a genius every damn day......

Yep

[56k]

Easy entrance to the states and a place to park your big ass boat from ill gotten means. Just a thought.

[goozman96]

I will keep posting. Keep deleting me. We'll see who gets tired first.
I would like to see someone take legal action against these toddler engineers and management at black arrow. Perhaps that guy who is out 25k? Keep us posted.

Everyone should read blackarrow's trust feedback.

It's funny. The more they delete this message, the more exposure it gets, because more people will see it. Alex fucking Sovu should familiarize himself with the Streisand Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Petition for blackarrow to be on default negative trust list

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=712294.msg8045959#msg8045959

[goozman96]

I will keep posting. Keep deleting me. We'll see who gets tired first.
I would like to see someone take legal action against these toddler engineers and management at black arrow. Perhaps that guy who is out 25k? Keep us posted.

Everyone should read blackarrow's trust feedback.

It's funny. The more they delete this message, the more exposure it gets, because more people will see it. Alex fucking Sovu should familiarize himself with the Streisand Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Petition for blackarrow to be on default negative trust list

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=712294.msg8045959#msg8045959

[DebitMe]

Are these asshole scammers back to deleting posts? You do know it isn'tworth it to ddelete posts after a couple of days sinc everyone has already seen them.  Well just for good measure. Never order from BA. They are incompetent idiots who I wouldn't trust to serve my fries at McDonalds. Lying scamming pieces of shit, the lot of them. I hope karma meets up with you pricks and your facilities burn and your wives leave you for a more competent man.

Make sure you neg rep them everyone!

[notbatman]

Deleted posts? lol I've only had about two weeks worth of posts removed. Each and every one of them worthy of deletion.

But I've been posting for six months since I got that congratulations you've been scammed email in January.

Time to put in some elbow grease boys, only five and a half months of re-hashing this thread to go!