Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[goozman96]

I will keep posting. Keep deleting me. We'll see who gets tired first.
I would like to see someone take legal action against these toddler engineers and management at black arrow. Perhaps that guy who is out 25k? Keep us posted.

Everyone should read blackarrow's trust feedback.

It's funny. The more they delete this message, the more exposure it gets, because more people will see it. Alex fucking Sovu should familiarize himself with the Streisand Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Petition for blackarrow to be on default negative trust list

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=712294.msg8045959#msg8045959

[goozman96]

Quote
Quote from: btmtb on August 04, 2014, 03:29:13 AM
I asked xbtec what the deal connection is and they said:

Quote
"Hello there,

1. We have tried to work as the resellers of Black Arrow in Russia but rapidly understood that they are can not produce their hardware in time and stopped all the relations.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/reseller-status-of-xbtek-has-been-canceled.html

2. We have bought the email base from Black arrow. If you do not want to receive information from us, just click on the unsubscribe button in the bottom of the email and we will not disturb you.

Sorry for inconvenience."
(I've added the emphasis)

WHAT. THE. FUCK. Explain yourself Black Arrow.


They're in serious breach of their own terms and conditions, along with the data protection laws of most civilised country's:
Quote
"Personal Data
14.1 Personal data provided to Us within the framework of an order for Products will be recorded and processed by Us and may also be transferred to the third party providers (such as hosting providers or payment processing providers) for the execution of the order for Products. The Purchaser hereby consents to such processing of personal data. We are the personal data controller for the personal data that We process. We shall take appropriate technical and organizational measures to protect the Purchasers personal data. You at any time contact Us to receive more information about Our processing of your personal data and to correct any inaccurate personal information.


Do we disclose any information to outside parties?
We do not sell, trade, or otherwise transfer to outside parties your personally identifiable information. This does not include trusted third parties who assist us in operating our website, conducting our business, or servicing you, so long as those parties agree to keep this information confidential. We may also release your information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law, enforce our site policies, or protect ours or others rights, property, or safety. However, non-personally identifiable visitor information may be provided to other parties for marketing, advertising, or other uses."
Let's be clear, this company have no get-out under the 'conducting our business or servicing you' as this applies to the execution of the trade in question, such as releasing addresses to the delivery company (DHL/UPS etc) and payment processors for the transactions.
This just never ends. I really hope someone sues blackarrow into oblivion. Never have I been so disgusted by a single company.

[goozman96]

Quote
Quote from: blackarrow on July 29, 2014, 11:20:06 PM
Quote
Quote from: greenlion on July 29, 2014, 10:37:19 PM
I'm sorry, but this is just a little too convenient that all of a sudden certain support logins don't work and won't even process a password reset. There is no way that I'm messaging my order information just so you can make good on your earlier threats denying the full compensation.
Everything is a conspiration for you ... The IPS's DNS is down. Can you please try now? We switched to google's dns.
The only person here who is conspiratorial is you, for thinking that anyone who speaks negatively of the infallible, impeccable and omnipotent blackarrow must be getting paid by a competitor. No competitor would pay others to speak negatively of you because your reputation is well known. Other companies are selling their product without needing to shit talk the shit stain of a company Merlion Holdings aka Blackarrow aka Alexandru Ion Sovu - international criminal.
And I fucking dare you to delete this. I'll repost it a million times.

[goozman96]

I never received an email from XBTec. Perhaps because I ordered from Minersource. However, I did receive that one email from Black Arrow about an update not too long ago, so I'm guessing Minersource had passed my email to Black Arrow. Interesting situation indeed..

[goozman96]

Quote from: bobsag3 on August 03, 2014, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: DebitMe on August 03, 2014, 05:47:12 PM
So now on top of their utter incompetence and failure, one of two scenarios is happening...

One, either they have sold your email to a third party company, which they probably made a lot of money on as a targeted list of emails associated with people who they know have purchased bitcoin miners, will be pretty expensive.
Or
Two, they have spent the last couple of months developing a mew company/brand as anything that has to do with BA is synonymous with fail and utter incompetence.  They have developed slightly different looking cases and are trying to sell products with the same specs as the X-3 to you.

Either way, Bobsag you need to confirm as to whether email addresses from purchases through you have been given to BA?

Nope.
Then how come I received an email from black arrow not too long ago about a production update? I never ordered from black arrow. And plus, this was after I had already received my refund and settled my situation. Is it possible that they simply sent that one email to everyone who had registered on ecointalk.net?

[goozman96]

I just left a delicious negative trust feedback for black arrow. Cheesy
The best part? HE CAN'T DELETE IT!

[goozman96]

And since you choose to delete my older posts, I will keep posting them as well. Like I said, keep deleting my posts; I'll keep reposting them and they get more exposure. It's not hard for me to copy and paste.

[goozman96]

Quote from: terrapinflyer on July 29, 2014, 03:23:29 PM
Quote from: blackarrow on July 29, 2014, 03:11:24 PM
Quote from: Mattster28 on July 29, 2014, 02:47:20 PM
Why would a competitor need to try and keep customers away from you? You are doing a DAMN GOOD job of that yourself.

We have always been upfront and never lied to our customers. We always kept them up to date with what is going on.

Regards!

I almost fell out of my chair.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Thank you for leaving this scumbag negative feedback. Finally someone on the default trust list leaving negative feedback is good to see. Cheesy

[Pentax]

Quote
Quote from: 56k on July 29, 2014, 08:33:21 PM
I'm sorry but i find it hard to sit back and let this go by . Months ago you stated outrite that you would basically punish anyone who didn't suck up and kiss your ass with NO compensation and or place there order to the back of the line . Now you want someone to identify there order to you lol. Even if you have good intentions of just cherry picking that order out to get them out of here why should they trust that and i would hope that they same as me want EVERYONE to get there order making you ship what you stated not cherry pick to make your issues go away.


exactly.  they use people not providing an order number as basis for saying they must not be a customer.  I've seen the same thing on their forum.

Anyone remember this?:

_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________
Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s
February 21, 2014, 04:59:52 AM
Reply with quote  #2660
Who wants to hear a funny story?
So, I PMed blackarrow on ecointalk asking him if he could please address my questions in this thread when he posts his weekly update:
http://ecointalk.net/topic/523-question-for-blackarrow-to-answer/

Instead, he asks for my order number. He asked me previously when he refused to answer my questions because he wanted to confirm that I was indeed a customer. So I gave him my order number to prove I'm a paying customer and for him to address my questions. Instead, the next PM I receive from him says he's cancelling my order. Never did I once ask him to cancel my order. And he still hasn't been back online to see my PMs telling him not to cancel my order and that all I wanted was answers.
And now bobsag3 has been ignoring my PMs all day as well.

Funny story, huh?

Edit : Blackarrow finally got back to me and said my order won't be cancelled.javascript:void(0);
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________




Edit:  FTR I am a customer of these people unfortunately and am not being paid by anyone, although I doubt anyone bought that silliness anyhow.  All I want is my money back, like everyone else, and stated that in a PM to BlackArrow well before they put that post up.

[Pentax]

Quote
Quote from: blackarrow on July 29, 2014, 06:36:06 PM
Dear Customers,

We apologize for the lack of updates during the last few weeks; We have been very busy working with the factories to get your long awaited miner.

As you well know we have been shipping X1s for almost a month. In the last few days we began shipping X3s alongside X1s. We still have days until we finish all the queue.

During the last week we have fixed few issues with our products:
 1. We found that Onsemi has given us wrong information regarding a controller; They have told us that NCP5392P is exactly the same as NCP5392E with only one pin difference (that we were not using). As they were in shortage of NCP5392P they sold us NCP5392E. However, after assembly we have found out that this controller fed wrong PWM to the mosfets shutting down the low side mosfet when it shouldn't. This resulted 5% of the mosfets burned and all miners were using 20-30% more power.
  We are currently looking into how to correct the PWM of NCP5392E and will contact customers who have received boards with this controller in order to provide them with a fix. We have begun to rework thousands of boards in order to replace NCP5392E with NCP5392P.
 2. During transportation hashboards were able to exit their slot therefore we needed to find a solution to fix this.

For these reasons we were unable to enter mass production for X3 last week.

We are happy to report that we have overcome all obstacles and we are now shipping X3s as well.

Regarding this thread, we always welcome constructive feedback. However, as we finally went full throttle into shipping at least one competitor is trying to keep away customers from us: Individuals on this forum which are not even our customers (Eg. Pentax, DebitMe, and few others) are probably being paid to spend their full time here to flood this thread with misleading information. For this reason we have decided to delete such posts.

We will post pictures in few minutes.





"at least one competitor is trying to keep away customers from us: Individuals on this forum which are not even our customers (Eg. Pentax, DebitMe, and few others) are probably being paid to spend their full time here to flood this thread with misleading information."


Bull-oney. 

I would suggest that you might be "projecting" BlackArrow.  In case you are unfamiliar with this concept here is a definition for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude......"

Replace the word 'rude' in the paragraph above with "misleading" and you might get a better picture of what I'm saying could be the case here.


I am, unfortunately, a customer of Black Arrow.  BA is making similar statements on their forum whereby anyone that makes a post that may not be all that flattering is apparently a paid shill.  They ask for order numbers and when they don't get them that is apparently their basis for assuming that person is not a customer.  More like those people are not foolish enough to open themselves to potential punitive actions, as others have pointed out already.

I wish it were not the case that I was a customer also, trust me on that, BlackArrow.   And I am being paid by no-one, which I have already stated to you in a PM when you made this same ridiculous accusation.   I also clearly stated via PM that all I wanted was a refund, as promised some time ago at this point.  There is no other motivation whatsoever.

Let's revisit some of your statements to see who may be misleading customers, as you are apparently accusing me of this.  These are your statements, let's remember, which I have attempted to post as accurately as I can by just pasting them in, so you do not accuse me of "flood(ing) this thread with misleading information".  If there is an error, feel free to correct me, as I'm sure you will.

Anyhow, let's move on with citing some of your posts.  I'm not going to comment on them, as I don't want to be accused of "flood(ing) this thread with misleading information".  These are your words, not mine.

The BlackArrow account on this forum, which I assume is one person and associated with Black Arrow Limited, although I'm obviously not certain about that, (from here on I will assume it is one person, although I guess it may be multiple users), posted statements pertaining to a price promise multiple times, and assured people that the February delivery date was conservative, also multiple times.


Here are some of those on price:
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________


Re: Black Arrow announces the launch of a new Bitcoin ASIC
September 21, 2013, 01:24:45 PM
Reply with quote  #49
Quote from: Puppet on September 21, 2013, 01:16:53 PM

I guess the obvious next question is, what happens when the price on X1 drops by 30%, and I ordered just one?

You'll get 2 pcs. In general we'll round up in customer's favor.

Quote
ITs not a matter of budget, but profitability. But like I said, thats not specific to your company, but to the market at large. 

We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.

If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________


   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 06:26:26 PM
Reply with quote  #96
Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 06:19:34 PM
I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined? 

Yes, you are guaranteed to get a price 25% below the market price ($/ghash) at the time of shipment.
And yes, we will keep our prices below every other company.

Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well. If you keep supporting other companies who have ripped you off until now, you'll barely get your ROI back.
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________

and then you reiterated this again many months later:
_______________________________________________________________________________ ______

Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s
April 11, 2014, 01:39:25 AM
Reply with quote  #3351
Dear Customers,

We just want to let you know that we have not forgotten our promise and we will match in Ghash any competitor at the time of shipping. There is no point in discussing yet what extra hashing power you will receive as we have not started shipping yet.

ASIC price match announced in this thread is part of our promise.

Regards!
_______________________________________________________________________________ ________   




As then, on July 6 via the update:

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/bitcoin-miners-progress-update-06-july-2014.html

"Our current design will not be able to directly compete on price with competitors’ design......"





OK, let's see some statements made about shipping on time:
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 02:31:17 PM
Reply with quote  #83
Quote from: topminingcontracts on September 23, 2013, 02:18:47 PM
I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________

   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 22, 2013, 07:26:45 AM
Reply with quote  #60
Quote from: Simon Barber on September 22, 2013, 06:34:05 AM
Chips and systems out at end of Feb 2014 - that means tape out sometime in December 2013, which means you've only just, or have not yet started physical design. Without being well into the physical design stage how do you know what your power or performance numbers are going to be with any confidence?

We've started the design in June. The only difference between us and our competitors is that we do not give unrealistic time frames which we know we cannot meet.

We are confident that we will deliver sooner but we do not make promises that we might not be able to fulfill.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________





Then there are the multiple ship dates.   From what I remember the various shipping dates put out by Black Arrow, (not necessarily the BlackArrow account on this forum), looked like this:

End of February. 

Then it was May 1. 

Then it was Minions on May X, shipping will commence the next day.  Remember that one?  That was my personal favorite. 

Now the most current goal seemed to be everything out the door by end of July.  That's not looking very likely either.











and you are accusing me of misleading customers,  while BA seemingly claims that it has not.   I'll let people decide for themselves if that is an accurate assessment of what has happened here

[Pentax]

Quote
Quote from: DonRavy on August 06, 2014, 08:38:30 PM
It's just getting better each day, I can't personally fathom how BA (and to a degree MS I guess) can sink any lower. Worst business and engineering practices I have ever witnessed, BA behaving like a spoiled brat or scorned woman, utterly pathetic.

Since it seems gloves are off, I'll just leave this here





riiiight, cause that's how it works.

the judge awards people bags of non-functional electronic parts.  "Here you go, Mr Ravy.  25 lbs of circuit boards and a couple hundred led's.  Maybe you can build some modern art and sell it on ebay."

I don't believe a word of that rubbish or anything they say at this point.  Exactly 0%.




and in the latest update are they telling us that this team of engineering professionals couldn't design a high end system that could ship without the boards popping out? 

or, hey, maybe a shipping drop test?  ever hear of that?  there are services to perform it, but on a base level you can do that yourself.  find the standard for guidance on procedures, pack the item, or a group of items, as you intend to ship it and drop the damn things a few times to see if the packing provisions are adequate.  it is that simple.  does anyone have any experience on this entire squad in anything whatsoever?   

all of that cost people another week, apparently.  thanks BA for continuing to provide the comic relief the mining community needs.  ::facepalm::

[DebitMe]

BA, I really wish you would stop the email spam, every time you delete a post I get an email and its getting annoying plus I have to take the two seconds to repost it.  so now your wasting both our times because it is going right back up you bag of fucks.  have you guys realized how utterly incompetent you all are yet?  how people outside your firm were able to produce a working board without the how many month head start you had.  everyone who works their must be incompetent out of their freaking minds!  how can you really be this stupid and bad.  you will never get another purchase again, I will see to that.

all my deleted posts will go back up shortly, thanks for giving them a bump so all the new people can see them and the old people can be reminded of them.

[Pentax]

BA, I really wish you would stop the email spam, every time you delete a post I get an email and its getting annoying plus I have to take the two seconds to repost it.  so now your wasting both our times because it is going right back up you bag of fucks.  have you guys realized how utterly incompetent you all are yet?  how people outside your firm were able to produce a working board without the how many month head start you had.  everyone who works their must be incompetent out of their freaking minds!  how can you really be this stupid and bad.  you will never get another purchase again, I will see to that.

all my deleted posts will go back up shortly, thanks for giving them a bump so all the new people can see them and the old people can be reminded of them.

And copy/paste is so much faster than typing stuff all over again, which is a real time saver so, yes, thank you BA for finally doing something positive in the way of customer service.....

There I said it.  Thank you BA.

now I need a shower.

[notbatman]

TB chip conversion... 60x heatsink+fan, 15x 500W PSUs and 15x controllers (can I connect via USB to a PC instead?).

Best case scenario I'd get 6Th/s that requires an additional $3k investment. That's $8.2k total or about $1370 per Th/s, ROI in 3.5 months.

Problem is 7.5kW is too much power draw and I can't raise the $3k. The X3 was suppose to help fill the hole I'd dug for myself. Now I'm free-falling down a bottomless fucking pit.

Waiting till Sep/Oct for a 2Th/s X3 that can't ROI makes me sick. That's if BA doesn't sink before then, you guys got what 3 employees left and only chip sales to keep the bilge pumps going?

How can you guys fuck up this badly, I'm inclined to think this was a criminal scam from the beginning and you're all driving mid-engine sports cars on my dime. I really hope you can prove you're not crooks somehow because not getting my $5.2k miner and losing $12k in revenue is driving me into a murderous fucking rage during the periods I'm not manically depressed.

Did all your engineers jump ship or something, what the fuck happened? The fact you kept feeding us bullshit shipping dates after you got the chips certainly doesn't help make you look any less like crooks.

The claimed SPI and controller issues also fucking stink and make you look like your trying to baffle your customers with bullshit. The only non-crooked answer I can come up with is that you hired some kid fresh out of school who had no clue that the serial lines had to be terminated. And the controller issue I'm guessing was actually an ncurses library related cgminer issue that your clueless student took weeks figure out?

This is a multi-million dollar clusterfuck, if you're not crooked I hope you understand why we're screaming bloody murder and contacting the police and lawyers about this.

[DebitMe]

HAHA BA's biggest cheerleader and self proclaimed liason between BA and the community, Jumbley, who got his X-3 first because, "he kept a cool head and worked with them instead of against them" has his for sale on Ebay.

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1228-jumbleys-x3/
Here is his post showing the miner in all its glory...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bitcoin-miner-Black-Arrow-Prospero-X-3-2000Ghash-second-/231300584172?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35da96d2ec
Here is the same miner/picture on Ebay!  Pretty good feedback on the Ebay account, so I doubt it would be someone stupid enough to steal pictures to try and scam.  It most probably is him.

So BA, even your cheerleader's are jumping ship right after receiving their units, if that doesn't tell you they are trash IDK what will.  Oh maybe the fact that you won't refund and keep them yourselves, you don't even want your own shit.

[DebitMe]

Quote
Quote from: blackarrow on August 06, 2014, 04:33:36 PM
Quote from: DebitMe on August 05, 2014, 03:40:38 PM
Now, after communicating with XBtec, I am leaning towards BA again being the scum of the earth.  But not the whole organization.  It seems that a single or small group of people inside BA sold the list. 

Please let us know who has sold this stolen information.

I unfortunately do not know that as they would not tell me, perhaps you should get in contact with them?  Also you should be relaying what is being done about this breach of internal security measures.  Something has happened, whether it was sold or stolen there still needs to be steps taken to ensure the integrity of your team and system.  This has gone beyond silly mining toys and is real people's information and you need to relay to everyone exactly what happened and your steps to correct it.
Quote
We have shipped 15 to 20% of X1s and 4 to 8% of X3s.

And its only taken you 3 months since chips arrived 

[DebitMe]

Now, after communicating with XBtec, I am leaning towards BA again being the scum of the earth.  But not the whole organization.  It seems that a single or small group of people inside BA sold the list.  What a fucked up mess this is, I don't think XBtec is BA rebranded, they have been incredibly nice to me and have put some of my fears to rest about them stealing the list (which I no longer believe they did).  I would even be open to getting some of their products if they would ship to me first.

But, it worries me that a small group of BA employees are selling company info.  This has apparently gone unnoticed since BA seems surprised by this (but I wouldn't doubt they are acting and lying to cover up what they did).  Who else are they selling to, how much more information?  Perhaps XBtec would be open to telling us if they offered to sell any other information besides email addresses about their customers?

It seems that BA cannot handle their own employees who are looking to make a quick buck on the side.

[DebitMe]

OK! If you really want to make it right by your customers, then start by answering some simple questions, I will try to keep them very to the point that should require short concise answers...

Quote
We have always been upfront and never lied to our customers. We always kept them up to date with what is going on.

Why, when it was less than two months until February 28th, did you state numerous times that you were on track to meet your shipping targets, knowing full well that no tape out process has begun?

That is one instance, there are others that I or others could easily find.

Quote
We are currently improving in every way and will be trying to make up towards our customers during the following months.

How can you justify, making it up to your customers in the coming MONTHS?  Your chips are already behind other manufacturers, and are only getting more outdated with each passing day.  The X-1 comp is already practically worthless, and the X-3 is approaching that point.
Do you honestly believe that any single customer will make back the bitcoin they spent on your machines?  And if so, please detail out how and why you think that?

Quote
Most of our customers are entitled to be upset for this delay but we think the garbage going on in this thread is unacceptable and must be pruned.

Please point out where any person has lied or spread falsities about your company (besides yourselves).  Everything I have said is absolutely true, and has been based on either your actions or what you have said.  So I am unsure as to what, "garbage" you are referring to.

Quote
The reason why we've tested on live pool is that cgminer --benchmark is buggy: reports the speed wrong (1.4Thash on X3) and does not turn on the SPI leds to confirm that the miner is working properly.

First time you have said this as an explanation.  Sure doesn't sound like the, "We always kept them up to date with what is going on." spirit.

Quote
There are about 5 people flooding this that consider themselves to represent all our customers.

There have been many many customers of yours who have contacted me asking about what lawyers I have talked to and asking my opinion on what they should do.  MinerSource is so bled for cash that they are knowingly breaking the law in an attempt to stay alive by not sending out more refunds, because so many people have requested them.  I would say the proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Quote
We have contacted them in private messages to check what is the status of their order and they have indeed been unable to provide us with a valid order number which led ourselves to believe that at least one must be funded by one of our competitor.

I have previously stated that I ordered through MinerSource and have since gotten a refund for all of my orders.  I am very happy with them, and commend them in putting up with this situation.  As previously stated, I did have an order with you, you screwed me and many others.  I am still unsure what, "competitors" you are referring to, as the real ASIC manufacturers laugh when they hear BFL or BA.  Also, why would I tell you if I had an order still pending with you guys?  You have threatened to without compensation for people who questioned you in the past, I can only imagine what you would do to my order that is still with you.

Here is a chance for you to answer some real questions from your customers.  I doubt you will, and will opt to run and hide and delete my post (which I will repost), but regardless, your, "apology" (which is another reason I am pissed, because until that post, you have never once taken credit for the failures of this venture, its always someone or somebody else), doesn't mean much without action.

[DebitMe]

Quote
Quote from: BitCoin Operated Boy on August 06, 2014, 05:56:31 PM


How can we ship your order first if you do not let us know what order you want to be shipped?
What kind of consequences can we threaten with?


Looks like people's orders will get expedited if you file a complaint.  Everyone file a complaint and refuse your miners.  These scum know they are shipping worthless products otherwise they would be over the moon to have you cancel your order.  They don't want it, why should you have to get it.

A perfect example of not standing behind ones own product.

[DebitMe]

XBTec has openly stated that they bought the mailing list from BA.  Now this is either true and BA is even more worthless scum than we initially thought or it isn't and XBTec is BA under a new name.  Either way, this should easily be enough to warn anyone from ordering from either company.  The ethical conflicts here are priceless.  Just imagine how much money BA made selling your email address to a third party!  I bet it was in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

BA, what about the privacy clauses in your ToS?  So you can simply disregard them anytime you feel like it, but if someone else tries to you start calling names and playing the tough guy act?  What pieces of shit you are!

Dogie, I would ask that you re review BA in your manufacturer trustworthiness guide and add this new piece of information into their score.  Violating own ToS as well as privacy acts of almost any and all countries out the ass.  Possibly setting up a new company to hide behind because their old name is now synonymous with shit.  Not even BFL has stooped low enough to sell email addresses or hide behind a different company name.  Isn't it sad when your name is now below BFL?

Also, if they are willing to sell your email address, imagine what else they sold about you?  They have your address, name, credit card info if you ordered that way.  It is fairly obvious they are strapped for cash and are trying by any means necessary to get some for another run of chips.  Think what other information they will sell behind your back about  you!  It is sickening.