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Author Topic: Cairnsmore1 - Quad XC6SLX150 Board  (Read 251381 times)
rjk
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April 28, 2012, 05:11:32 PM
 #41

I will mention the -3N grade. It is a runt grade, and very misleading, that Xilinx created because they had a die yield issue on memory controllers in S6. It should have been called -2N because most of the guaranteed specs are the same as -2. I think the clock tree is virtually the only one the same as -3. So our competitors selling -3N are probably not any faster than the -2 we are currently using.
OK so let me ask - since -3N is a runt, is it cheaper than -2? Mining doesn't use a whole lot of memory, so if the -3N grade has bad memory but is as fast as -3 and cheaper than -2, it makes sense to use it I would think. Or am I way off base here?

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 28, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
 #42

The -2 and -3N are similar prices. If you don't need memory controller the main advantage of the -3N is that it offers slight better I/O speeds. However the logic delay which is a bit part of Bitcoin speed is the same between the -3N and -2. So for some applications the -3N might be slightly better but I don't think so for Bitcoin. Not anything worth talking about at least.

Our choice is based on the volume we use -2 at in other products. We would pay a lot more for the -3N and our board would be dearer if we used that for little or no performance improvement. When customers get hold of our board I am sure results will be on the forum within hours and we will see how close my experience is. There is far more to be gained in areas other than speed grades that I would think about first.
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April 28, 2012, 05:34:34 PM
 #43

The -2 and -3N are similar prices. If you don't need memory controller the main advantage of the -3N is that it offers slight better I/O speeds. However the logic delay which is a bit part of Bitcoin speed is the same between the -3N and -2. So for some applications the -3N might be slightly better but I don't think so for Bitcoin. Not anything worth talking about at least.

Our choice is based on the volume we use -2 at in other products. We would pay a lot more for the -3N and our board would be dearer if we used that for little or no performance improvement. When customers get hold of our board I am sure results will be on the forum within hours and we will see how close my experience is. There is far more to be gained in areas other than speed grades that I would think about first.
Good info, thanks. And I might as well ask, although no one else seems to have any info on Artix 7, do you as a large manufacturing joint have any other info? I think that is one of the most anticipated devices, although it sounds like it will be rather late.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 28, 2012, 05:39:09 PM
 #44

Good info, thanks. And I might as well ask, although no one else seems to have any info on Artix 7, do you as a large manufacturing joint have any other info? I think that is one of the most anticipated devices, although it sounds like it will be rather late.

At the X-Fest on Thursday Xilinx reps said that Artix will be available at the end of the year - however, who knows whether this is a fact or just BFL-style wishful thinking.
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April 28, 2012, 06:31:13 PM
 #45

As I didn't say it the end of the year sounds about right for Artix. We do know more but are under NDA so there is a limit on what I can say.
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April 28, 2012, 06:35:03 PM
 #46

We will look at mtgox or even Bitcoins directly but we are newbies in this market so we start with what we are already good at i.e. making boards and using payment systems we that have used for years. We are aware these payment systems might be an issue to some people in Bitcoin community so it will get looked at.

Easiest option is Bitpay.  You set prices in price the in dollars, Bitpay shopping card allows payment in BTC (calculated in realtime).  Customer pays in Bitcoins, Bitpay pays you in dollars.  You take no currency or conversion risk.  If you want $650 per board you get $650 per board and customer still gets to pay in Bitcoins.

https://bit-pay.com/
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April 28, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
 #47

The -2 and -3N are similar prices. If you don't need memory controller the main advantage of the -3N is that it offers slight better I/O speeds. However the logic delay which is a bit part of Bitcoin speed is the same between the -3N and -2. So for some applications the -3N might be slightly better but I don't think so for Bitcoin. Not anything worth talking about at least.

Our choice is based on the volume we use -2 at in other products. We would pay a lot more for the -3N and our board would be dearer if we used that for little or no performance improvement. When customers get hold of our board I am sure results will be on the forum within hours and we will see how close my experience is. There is far more to be gained in areas other than speed grades that I would think about first.

As I understand it, a bitstream and controller script would be needed.  I've seen no well known community members who have this specific experience needed voice their intention to get this would-be board up and mining.

Can someone please provide some useful comments regarding bitstream and controller script for the proposed board.

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April 28, 2012, 09:07:58 PM
 #48

It's true boards could be used for some other purpose probably a processing task. However as this boardis cost optimised this will restrict usage to very similar processing tasks.

Will this be an open board, i.e. will community developed bitstreams be relatively straight forward?

Buy & Hold
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April 28, 2012, 11:33:27 PM
 #49

watching

My tip jar: 13kwqR7B4WcSAJCYJH1eXQcxG5vVUwKAqY
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April 28, 2012, 11:39:20 PM
 #50

watching

Yeah, we gotta keep an eye on this one. Smiley

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April 28, 2012, 11:40:51 PM
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watching

Yeah, we gotta keep an eye on this one. Smiley
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If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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April 29, 2012, 04:36:56 AM
 #52

Will there be a warranty available? Also, will there be non-warranty repair service available? For instance, if a component were to fail, outside of the warranty period if one is offered, would it be possible to mail the device back for repair?
Interested to see the final product.  Will there be a warranty?
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April 29, 2012, 05:12:12 AM
 #53

Man it would look really sexy if you had add a purple solder mask to it. It's only a few cents more (Depending on your PCB manufacture). It will also make it unique. What you think?
yohan
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April 29, 2012, 06:11:52 AM
 #54

There will be a warranty of at least 90 days which is our current standard for industrial customers. We may increase that to 1 year for this product. Whatever the warranty it won't cover outright abuse of these boards of course.

As to colour purple is unlikely in the first boards because it will impact the number of places we can get PCB manfactured. The cost isn't a problem. Maybe later we will consider something like this but building the first boards it is more important that we keep our timescales.

The board will be open in the sense that we will tell you pinouts and any other information you need to get it going. It will all become a little clearer this week when we show the CAD image of the board.
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April 29, 2012, 11:27:43 AM
 #55

We get the design expertise and timescales of a professional company, with the openness and honesty of just another hobbyist on the forum. I like this very much.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 29, 2012, 10:08:44 PM
 #56

I agree.  A pro company who is responsive on the forums sounds good to me.

Re the warranty.  90 days is kind of a non-starter for me personally.  1 year would be more enticing. (Maybe I am spoiled by the 2-years that ztex offers)  But thanks for the reply though.
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April 29, 2012, 10:13:38 PM
 #57

2 Years is standard in the EU? (its 1 Year Warranty and the other is "German" Gewährleistung --> don't have an english word for that:().


Warranty is why i prefer Ztex over BFL or other competitors..... even if it costs me a bit more:)

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April 30, 2012, 07:37:16 AM
 #58

The little warranty offered just shows how much faith these FPGA designers have in their products. Same with BFL and co.

The UK does not like the EU law so I think there is no mandatory requirement for a 2 years warranty by default.

yohan
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April 30, 2012, 08:44:35 AM
 #59

If you want to be accurate the EU law I believe that it applies only to consumer purchases. I'm not a lawyer but in my humble opinion as most miners aim to earn money by these purchases they would not count as consumers and hence they won't be covered by that law. That's probably a gray area so you can all argue about that.

There is a second part of this law as far as i understand it is that after 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove that they didn't abuse a product. In most things this isn't likely to be an issue but Bitcoining where everyone is trying to overclock that's going to be a hard one.

We are looking at our design in terms of the warranty and we have some features that might allow us to do 1yr and maybe 2 yr warranties at minimal risk. At the moment the decision simply isn't made so I won't say any more on this until we do.
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April 30, 2012, 08:52:21 AM
 #60

If you want to be accurate the EU law I believe that it applies only to consumer purchases. I'm not a lawyer but in my humble opinion as most miners aim to earn money by these purchases they would not count as consumers and hence they won't be covered by that law. That's probably a gray area so you can all argue about that.

There is a second part of this law as far as i understand it is that after 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove that they didn't abuse a product. In most things this isn't likely to be an issue but Bitcoining where everyone is trying to overclock that's going to be a hard one.

We are looking at our design in terms of the warranty and we have some features that might allow us to do 1yr and maybe 2 yr warranties at minimal risk. At the moment the decision simply isn't made so I won't say any more on this until we do.

yohan,

as far as I know, EU law dictates a two year warranty for end users and one year for companies. I don't know if Great Britain is subject to this law, though.

spiccioli
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