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Author Topic: Cairnsmore1 - Quad XC6SLX150 Board  (Read 251457 times)
sadpandatech
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May 06, 2012, 01:57:02 AM
 #141

To pre order send an email to bitcoin AT enterpoint DOT co DOT uk with address and contact details.

Yohan


You have pre-order mail

cheers

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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DiabloD3
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May 06, 2012, 03:01:33 AM
 #142

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.

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May 06, 2012, 03:32:50 AM
 #143

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
OK, I wasn't sure about the first one, but I know the 8 pin doesn't have any additional current carrying conductors, so technically the 6 pin can handle 150 watts. The 8 pin just has 2 additional ground pins that tell the card that the correct connector is connected.

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May 06, 2012, 03:39:48 AM
 #144

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
OK, I wasn't sure about the first one, but I know the 8 pin doesn't have any additional current carrying conductors, so technically the 6 pin can handle 150 watts. The 8 pin just has 2 additional ground pins that tell the card that the correct connector is connected.


You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.

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May 06, 2012, 04:11:17 AM
 #145

Any estimate when these will be ready?  I'm looking to start delving into building a small FPGA farm and may consider getting the BFL single if this project is going to be long delayed (keeping in mind that BFL's time to delivery is long as well).

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May 06, 2012, 06:01:58 AM
 #146

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
OK, I wasn't sure about the first one, but I know the 8 pin doesn't have any additional current carrying conductors, so technically the 6 pin can handle 150 watts. The 8 pin just has 2 additional ground pins that tell the card that the correct connector is connected.


You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.


Both of you have your point.

With the following guessings:
 *one of this quad boards is over 60-65W (with fan/fans)
 *PSU is "big" enough ie: AX850
 *(with good stock cables) of enough gauge

Could we  connect safely two  boards to the same pci-e psu cable ( we use only 6 pines but they are nice "gauged") ?



Thank you.  

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Glasswalker
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May 06, 2012, 06:06:10 AM
 #147

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
OK, I wasn't sure about the first one, but I know the 8 pin doesn't have any additional current carrying conductors, so technically the 6 pin can handle 150 watts. The 8 pin just has 2 additional ground pins that tell the card that the correct connector is connected.


You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.

It should also be noted that the wire gauge makes a big difference. Claiming that you can put 50W through the Molex connector may be true, with optimal wiring. But when you see power supplies with 5x molex all daisy chained on a single strand of 18AWG wire, putting 250W through a single strand of 18AWG is a BAD idea Wink (just saying)

So people need to be aware of the connector limit, and the wiring limits, and PSU Rail limits, and so on. Looking at only one specific component is bound to start a fire.

(But yes you are correct, I'm simply pointing out that many people will read that and go "OH I can use this cheap chinese supply that says it's 600W and has 9 molex on a single strand, so I can run 450Watt through that strand for this rig running on my carpeted floor in my home" and expect not to burn their house down) Wink

Also it should be said that while that's the rating for the connector, poorly made connectors which may not provide reliable contact are notorious for arcing inside the housing, and causing thermal damage (eventually resulting in a fire, melted parts at the least)

Just trying to make Bitcoin a Success... One crazy project at a time. (13rwPKskyATcAq3PpnCikfFG8989DQ8M3c)
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May 06, 2012, 06:30:23 AM
 #148

Any info about the USB programming option? It would be a lot easier to upgrade the bitsream with USB.
Is there a bitsream inside the board when you ship or is it my job as a customer to load it with JTAG? That means I need to purchase a JTAG connector?

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May 06, 2012, 08:32:38 AM
 #149

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.

You're correct.

In my opinion, its much easier to have 2 boards on one molex connector cable. Usually i find there are 3 molex connector cables per PSU, which gives you 6 boards.

What do i do with the PCI-E connectors? Splitter ofcourse! each 6 pin connector can be splitted to 2 molex connectors.

The 4 pin molex connector is much cheaper to buy and ready available every where.
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May 06, 2012, 09:28:27 AM
 #150

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
OK, I wasn't sure about the first one, but I know the 8 pin doesn't have any additional current carrying conductors, so technically the 6 pin can handle 150 watts. The 8 pin just has 2 additional ground pins that tell the card that the correct connector is connected.


You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.

It should also be noted that the wire gauge makes a big difference. Claiming that you can put 50W through the Molex connector may be true, with optimal wiring. But when you see power supplies with 5x molex all daisy chained on a single strand of 18AWG wire, putting 250W through a single strand of 18AWG is a BAD idea Wink (just saying)

So people need to be aware of the connector limit, and the wiring limits, and PSU Rail limits, and so on. Looking at only one specific component is bound to start a fire.

(But yes you are correct, I'm simply pointing out that many people will read that and go "OH I can use this cheap chinese supply that says it's 600W and has 9 molex on a single strand, so I can run 450Watt through that strand for this rig running on my carpeted floor in my home" and expect not to burn their house down) Wink

Also it should be said that while that's the rating for the connector, poorly made connectors which may not provide reliable contact are notorious for arcing inside the housing, and causing thermal damage (eventually resulting in a fire, melted parts at the least)

This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.

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May 06, 2012, 02:34:13 PM
 #151

please use molex connector.

the pcie connector is very limited per psu.

What?
The "molex" connector (i.e. peripheral device connector) is only good for about 35 watts, if I remember correctly. The PCIe 6-pin connector is good for 150 watts, however.

Both wrong. Molexes are good for 60 watts 12v and 25 watts 5v. 6 pin PCI-E is good for 75 watts 12v, and 8 pin is 150 watts.
OK, I wasn't sure about the first one, but I know the 8 pin doesn't have any additional current carrying conductors, so technically the 6 pin can handle 150 watts. The 8 pin just has 2 additional ground pins that tell the card that the correct connector is connected.


You're half right. Yes, they both have 3 12v lines, but the extra two grounds on the 8 pin plug signal that the wiring is lower gauge (ie, higher current) and that there is also sufficient grounding available. Putting 150w on a 6 pin PCI-E connector is a good way to fry shit.

It should also be noted that the wire gauge makes a big difference. Claiming that you can put 50W through the Molex connector may be true, with optimal wiring. But when you see power supplies with 5x molex all daisy chained on a single strand of 18AWG wire, putting 250W through a single strand of 18AWG is a BAD idea Wink (just saying)

So people need to be aware of the connector limit, and the wiring limits, and PSU Rail limits, and so on. Looking at only one specific component is bound to start a fire.

(But yes you are correct, I'm simply pointing out that many people will read that and go "OH I can use this cheap chinese supply that says it's 600W and has 9 molex on a single strand, so I can run 450Watt through that strand for this rig running on my carpeted floor in my home" and expect not to burn their house down) Wink

Also it should be said that while that's the rating for the connector, poorly made connectors which may not provide reliable contact are notorious for arcing inside the housing, and causing thermal damage (eventually resulting in a fire, melted parts at the least)

This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.

+1
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May 06, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
 #152

This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.

This is very useful info. You specifically mentioned 8->2 6 splitters. May I ask why one couldn't use 6->2 6x splitters? It is my understanding that the 8 or 6 pin PCI-E is the same, but ground from pins 6 and 7 is also bridged to pin 4 and 8.

Look at the Cooler Master Pro Hybrid 850 (single 70A rail), it has 4 PCI-E out (gray in picture). It comes with 4 cables.

2x PCI-E 6 Pin to PCI-E 6+2 Pin
2x PCI-E 6 Pin to 2x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
Total 6x PCI-E 6+2 Pin

(I assume PCI-E 8 Pin and PCI-E 6+2 Pin is the same, isn't it?)

Image:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/upload/product/3057/gallery/full/5.jpg?1733052483
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May 07, 2012, 03:02:57 AM
 #153

This is why switching to 8x Spartan 6 boards that use a PCI-E 6 is superior. Many PSUs have like 6 or 8 PCI-E 6/8 plugs. The NZXT Hale90, Bitcoin's favorite PSU, has 3x 6 and 3x 8, and you can get 8->2x 6 splitters, so you're looking at 9 boards, or 675 watts, off a single NZXT Hale90 750, or about 15 ghash.

This is very useful info. You specifically mentioned 8->2 6 splitters. May I ask why one couldn't use 6->2 6x splitters? It is my understanding that the 8 or 6 pin PCI-E is the same, but ground from pins 6 and 7 is also bridged to pin 4 and 8.

Look at the Cooler Master Pro Hybrid 850 (single 70A rail), it has 4 PCI-E out (gray in picture). It comes with 4 cables.

2x PCI-E 6 Pin to PCI-E 6+2 Pin
2x PCI-E 6 Pin to 2x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
Total 6x PCI-E 6+2 Pin

(I assume PCI-E 8 Pin and PCI-E 6+2 Pin is the same, isn't it?)

Image:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/upload/product/3057/gallery/full/5.jpg?1733052483


6 to 2x 6 is a really bad idea and I wish China would quit shoveling this shit on us. Essentially, it tells the very dumb users out there they can plug 150w worth of stuff into something that can only safely handle 75w of gear. Those two extra grounds don't just signal that 150w is possible, they're also legitimate grounds, the 5 pins of grounds is enough together to handle that 150w of 12v.

And yes, 6+2 is the same as 8, the extra two grounds are on a 2 pin plug so you can plug 8s into 6 pin sockets without a converter.

Also, Coolermaster sucks.

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May 07, 2012, 03:26:06 AM
 #154


6 to 2x 6 is a really bad idea and I wish China would quit shoveling this shit on us. Essentially, it tells the very dumb users out there they can plug 150w worth of stuff into something that can only safely handle 75w of gear. Those two extra grounds don't just signal that 150w is possible, they're also legitimate grounds, the 5 pins of grounds is enough together to handle that 150w of 12v.

And yes, 6+2 is the same as 8, the extra two grounds are on a 2 pin plug so you can plug 8s into 6 pin sockets without a converter.

Also, Coolermaster sucks.

http://www.digikey.com/us/en/ph/Molex/MiniFitJr.html

A 6pin MiniFit Jr. is more than capable of carrying 150W. The restriction to 75W has more to do with validating power supplies when the spec was first made than it does with the physical capabilities of the connectors.
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May 07, 2012, 04:17:23 AM
 #155


6 to 2x 6 is a really bad idea and I wish China would quit shoveling this shit on us. Essentially, it tells the very dumb users out there they can plug 150w worth of stuff into something that can only safely handle 75w of gear. Those two extra grounds don't just signal that 150w is possible, they're also legitimate grounds, the 5 pins of grounds is enough together to handle that 150w of 12v.

And yes, 6+2 is the same as 8, the extra two grounds are on a 2 pin plug so you can plug 8s into 6 pin sockets without a converter.

Also, Coolermaster sucks.

http://www.digikey.com/us/en/ph/Molex/MiniFitJr.html

A 6pin MiniFit Jr. is more than capable of carrying 150W. The restriction to 75W has more to do with validating power supplies when the spec was first made than it does with the physical capabilities of the connectors.

The pins, the plug and socket, and the wiring itself must all match minimum specification. With the right parts, you could do 300 watts or more across a PCI-E 8 pin plug.... as long as it meets the minimum specification for such. As such, EPS12 plugs are also Molex MiniFit Jrs, and they happily do around 350 watts.

Kind of pisses me off they didn't for for 150/300 watts for 6/8 instead of 75/150, it would have been far more useful.

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May 07, 2012, 04:26:35 AM
 #156

OK, so I read this whole post and have 1 question: Can I operate this using CGminer or Guiminer with a pool?

Someone mentioned that this may not be for the beginner miner.  I've been mining for almost a year, but I don't consider myself to be the most techy person regarding how the mining software works.

However, my first BFL single unit will show up in the next couple days & I will be figuring out CGminer since that seems to be what everyone is using. 

This seems like a lower wattage option for about the same Mhash? 

Also, I like the 1 year warranty as opposed to 6 months with BFL.

CampBX for buying BTCs, Coinbase for selling BTCs or Vircurex or Cryptsy for trading alternate cryptocurrencies like DOGEs

PM me with any questions on these sites!  Happy to help!

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May 07, 2012, 07:28:55 AM
 #157

Ok I will try to answer a bunch of things.

Cabling is as much important as connectors and many of the wires used for the disk drives wiring strings are very thin. These have actually got worse over the years that I have been using ATX power supplies and part of the reason for that is disk drives in general now use a lot less current than 20+ years or so ago when this standard started to be used. I have seen a lot of variation in the thickness in PCIe connector wiring as well but at least you get 2 or 3 strands each of 12V and GND to share the load.

We have added an extra power connector now to the design that will be on Issue 1.1 which is what most people will get that are on preorder. It's overkill for the board but it allows us to do custom wiring easily or even maybe a PCB distributor. No recommendaton but an example is http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/dnr120as12-i/psu-din-rail-120w-12v/dp/1372699 could be used to power 2 boards. Much bigger units can be bought and may be a better way than ATX power supplies. We also have a way to use multiple ATX power supplies in a larger system. The negative of some of the industrial power supplies is that they have exposed mains voltage terminals and need a proper encloseure when that is the case (no pun intended).

Moving on to software we are going to be some testing this week. Hopefully some on software size and we hope anything that works with Icarus will work will Cairnsmore. When we know more I will update you all on this thread. Same goes for bitstreams.

Pricing for the single and dual version of the board is coming. We are adding some daisy chaining features in the Issue 1.1 to allow a system build up and more on that later when we have that finalised. That may also allow a reduction in USB cables and maybe an Ethernet option eventually. It's likely we will offer the single and dual options for shipment in July onwards.

Programming - we are hoping to do one the following but all are subject to confirmation (1) ship with bitstreams already loaded or (2) ship with a programming cable (least likely as extra cost) or (3) ship with JTAG feature through USD data interface or (4) ship with a direct bitstream loader maybe with a falling back image feature.

To pre order send an email to bitcoin AT enterpoint DOT co DOT uk with address and contact details.

Yohan
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May 07, 2012, 10:40:08 AM
 #158

Pre-order for May/June deliveries is now paused. You still order but the delivery slot will now be indicated as July. We may be able to pull this forward but that depends on a pile of parts arriving on time and development staying on schedule. Anyone already talking to us about a pre-order is ok if they reply to us by Wednesday.

The existing pre-orders are using about 60% of our May/June capability but won't commit on the balance capacity at this time.
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May 08, 2012, 02:14:39 PM
 #159

Sent an email to preorder.
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May 08, 2012, 10:06:56 PM
 #160

New CAD image for the improved specification Issue 1.1 board on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1.html. This is the Issue that will ship to customers. I'll talk a bit more what we are doing with this improved spec board Wednesday and Thursday with a general update on how we are doing as well.

If anyone hasn't had an email response for their pre-order please send again. We seem to have had a couple vaporised by our hosting providers spam filters.
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