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Author Topic: Cairnsmore1 - Quad XC6SLX150 Board  (Read 251092 times)
kano
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May 31, 2012, 01:49:41 PM
 #441

What are people using to mine?

... does it work with cgminer as an Icarus? (i.e. as 2 Icarus /dev/ttyUSBx or 2 COM ports?)
the latest (a few weeks old) cgminer git pull I have up may also help with that if it's a different speed to an Icarus Rev3
(the new --icarus-timing option)

Though, the fact that it is 4 chips (and not 2) may? need some minor changes to cgminer
(if it doesn't appear to the OS as 2 tty/COM ports)
Just an FYI (when someone can try mining on one of these boards)
These changes are now in ckolivas main git (see FGPA-README if you want to try it)

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
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May 31, 2012, 02:15:40 PM
 #442

FAN spec looks good but I looked up the nearest distributor and no listing of the 12cm model that I could so it sort of suggests that it's very new and maybe not quite available yet.

We are committed anyway in a large way to the Arctic F12. It's pretty quiet and more to the point available in large numbers to us in a short leadtime. When you start looking at the quantities we are buying many of them have to take the boat from china and that's usually 6 weeks min delivery.

If people want they have the option to change the fan themselves it will be simple enough to do that.

My recommendation is stay with the Arctic F12.

My experience regarding the Silenx fan vs. the Arctic F12 fan is the following.
If you compare the datasheets the fan from Silenx looks in most things better than the Arctic (or others), especially the sound level and air flow.
I've compared the Silenx fans with fans from other vendors including Arctic and I would say that the specified data from Silenx is not correct.
The Silenx fan is good, but the '15db'-Version is comparable to the Arctic F12. The real air-flow is not so good like from the ARCTIC F12 and the sound level is only slightly better. According the datasheet the air-flow and sound level should be much better. I've done Silenx orders from two different supplies to decrease the risk of just having a copy or broken fan.

Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.

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May 31, 2012, 02:17:50 PM
 #443

Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.
Well in that case, why AFB? Why not the TSB or PFB series? lol

Such powerful fans need their own boards with separate power circuitry so that they don't insert all kinds of inductive shit into the ground and power planes of the main board electronics.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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May 31, 2012, 02:20:51 PM
 #444

Looking forward to seeing some epic results from these boards.
So do these 4 spartan 6's actually have the potential to do 250 - 300Mhash/s each?
I understand it's hard so won't get my hopes up.
However it's just a software thing that makes is possible?



Currently EldenTyrell has a custom bitstream which can push these same chips to 250MHash/s approx.

And BitFury has a custom bitstream pushing (liquid cooled I believe) LX150s (same chips as Cairnsmore) to 300MHash/s or more.

But it should be pointed out that neither of those has been "independently verified" by a third party.

So yes the chips have the potential to reach much higher hash rates using a new bitstream (essentially firmware for an FPGA).

But right now, I think Enterpoints goal is to get "icarus-like hashing per chip" (so 190-200mhash) out of them to get them in customers hands, with an easy method of usb updating the boards so that once a new/improved bitstream is available, they can be updated easily.

Thanks for that.
I'm going to start reading up on what it takes to code these bitstreams.
Expect it to be difficult, but I kinda like tweaking things so I could really get into this.

Lethos Designs | UK BTC Seller -  Local Bitcoins | BTC OTC Rating | 1EFhXfX9uXsbXBF3LC69GiVfS3SHCsyMR1
FPGA: 2x Quad XC6SLX150 Boards
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May 31, 2012, 02:29:26 PM
 #445


Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.

Hi I'm not sure what you mean. I just did some comments regarding the suggestion to use Silenx fans instead of Arctic F12.
There is no question that there are also other, interesting or even better fans on the market.
What you define as a better fan highly depends on your needs.

Your Delta fan is quite 'different' to the two other mentioned fans. If someone is looking for a really quiet fan with still good airflow the Arctic F12 and also the Silenx is very interesting.
With over 32db(A) the Delta fan is, compared to the other 2,  MUCH MORE noisy - too noisy for me.
My BFL singles were equipped with a 32db Fan. I was totally disappointed, because I expected something more quiet than a GPU solution. My singles are not running with other fans.
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May 31, 2012, 02:37:10 PM
 #446

Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.
Well in that case, why AFB? Why not the TSB or PFB series? lol

Such powerful fans need their own boards with separate power circuitry so that they don't insert all kinds of inductive shit into the ground and power planes of the main board electronics.

Powerful? I don't think you realize AFB1212 comes in many different speeds.

http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB120x120x38mm.pdf

The slowest is 2000 rpm, 32dbA, 71cfm and uses 1.68 watts. As for the other series, they're just as high quality, I just prefer AFBs.

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May 31, 2012, 02:42:48 PM
 #447


Are you kidding me? Delta AFB1212. There is no reason to not use industrial fans, no cheap Chinese shit.

Hi I'm not sure what you mean. I just did some comments regarding the suggestion to use Silenx fans instead of Arctic F12.
There is no question that there are also other, interesting or even better fans on the market.
What you define as a better fan highly depends on your needs.

Your Delta fan is quite 'different' to the two other mentioned fans. If someone is looking for a really quiet fan with still good airflow the Arctic F12 and also the Silenx is very interesting.
With over 32db(A) the Delta fan is, compared to the other 2,  MUCH MORE noisy - too noisy for me.
My BFL singles were equipped with a 32db Fan. I was totally disappointed, because I expected something more quiet than a GPU solution. My singles are not running with other fans.


AFB1212s will start at 5v. Driving fans at full voltage are noisy anyhow.

Also, WTF, my GPU drowns out my AFB1212HHE, thats 47dBA! Also, don't trust cheap fans to have accurate noise measurements. Almost every consumer fan lies or has an unfavorable pitch to the noise.

Don't say its loud until you've bought and tried one.

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May 31, 2012, 02:50:40 PM
 #448

How many of these boards can we expect to run on a single molex from an ATX PSU ? I have seasonic 1250 golds, so I hope they can run several of these plus a few 5970's. Could we expect to run like 3 5970's on the PCI E connectors and then 4-5 of these on the molex connectors and then maybe 2 on the extra PCI-E ?

I would like to run rigs with 3 5970's and 6-8 Quad FPGA's for a while, per rig.

Hmmm, 7-8.5 GH/s per rig at maybe 1100-1200 watts would be sweet.

This might get me to 40 GH/s...
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May 31, 2012, 03:34:53 PM
 #449

Keep in mind it's rarely the connector itself, it's more commonly the wiring leading to that connector that ends up being your limiting factor on most ATX PSUs. These boards should be drawing somewhere in the ballpark of 50W per board. So at 12VDC that's a little over 4A.

A lot of PSUs use 18AWG wire, some (nice ones) use 16AWG.

18AWG Wire when used for Chassis Wiring is only rated for an absolute max of 16A (and at that, with cheaper wire sheathing will likely get bloody hot)
16AWG is rated for 22A in the same condition.

So based on that, if you have 4x molex connectors on a single strand fed by 18AWG wire, the most you could cram safely on that wire is 3 boards. But I wouldn't recommend going over 2 boards. The PCI-e power connectors have more wire pairs (And some higher end PSUs use 16AWG for those higher current connectors) so in that case you can likely split a few more off of it. Just make sure to load it evenly, and mind safe wiring practice and you can likely use up that 1000W fairly effectively.

Personally I find that the limit I like to load on a single strand of 18AWG wire is about 80-100W before it gets "warm" to the touch, but not hot. Beyond that and you're getting into "asking for a fire" territory.

Just trying to make Bitcoin a Success... One crazy project at a time. (13rwPKskyATcAq3PpnCikfFG8989DQ8M3c)
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Lethos
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May 31, 2012, 03:43:45 PM
 #450

How many of these boards can we expect to run on a single molex from an ATX PSU ? I have seasonic 1250 golds, so I hope they can run several of these plus a few 5970's. Could we expect to run like 3 5970's on the PCI E connectors and then 4-5 of these on the molex connectors and then maybe 2 on the extra PCI-E ?

I would like to run rigs with 3 5970's and 6-8 Quad FPGA's for a while, per rig.

Hmmm, 7-8.5 GH/s per rig at maybe 1100-1200 watts would be sweet.

This might get me to 40 GH/s...

A molex connector is actually capable of drawing a lot of wattage, at a max of 187 Watts.
Not recommended to try do that of course.
Assuming that is you are taking from both the 12 and 5 volt, as they can carry upto 11amps each.
So your talking 132 Watts and 66 Watts respectively; going over 110W per strand you'll like encounter heat issues.

In comparison the 6 pin connector is rated at 8amps but will only handling 12volts; it however is rated at 75Watts.
I assume then, the molex connector is only being used for it's 12volt pin(s). Forgive me if this is actually stated.

So with this in mind, I would personally keep it to 1 per molex. If you have a lot of molex connectors on one strand you will have to limit it to two per strand. Just because I don't know for sure this FPGA won't go over 50 watts.
The Seasonic 1250 Gold has 8x 6+2 pins and 8x 4 pins connectors should you should be able to do that configuration without a problem.
Hope you got something good in mind to deal with the heat.

Lethos Designs | UK BTC Seller -  Local Bitcoins | BTC OTC Rating | 1EFhXfX9uXsbXBF3LC69GiVfS3SHCsyMR1
FPGA: 2x Quad XC6SLX150 Boards
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May 31, 2012, 04:02:17 PM
 #451


AFB1212s will start at 5v. Driving fans at full voltage are noisy anyhow.

Also, WTF, my GPU drowns out my AFB1212HHE, thats 47dBA! Also, don't trust cheap fans to have accurate noise measurements. Almost every consumer fan lies or has an unfavorable pitch to the noise.

Don't say its loud until you've bought and tried one.

The argument to drive a e.g. 12V fan at a lower voltage to be not so noisy is true for nearly every fan. The big question is how much airflow does the fan still provide under this condition.
BTW: Driving an AFB1212s with only +5v is out of the specification.

If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.

The original suggestion (not my one) to use Silenx fans instead of Arctic F12 fans goes in the direction to use more quiet fans with better airflow.
All I've said is that the airflow of the Silenx fans is NOT better and the Silenx fans are only slightly quieter that the Arctic F12 and this is simply true.
I didn't compare only the datasheets. I compared the fans (from much more vendors than this three) by my measurements.  

There are also arguments to use other fans. But I think the Arctic F12, and the possibility to change it to another, is a good 'standard'-fan for the board.
I would not put the Delta fan in my BOM for THIS product.

The AFB series from Delta is loud compared to the airflow/noise ratio some other fans achieve. If you have other requirements, which let you live with this specific disadvantage, it's fine.

As a professional engineer in the industrial electronic business I've also an addiction to industrial components. But I don't see a reason why this specific application needs a super ruggedized high-end fan, which costs also a lot of money. I also don't like your fast, lump-sum statement regarding 'Chinese shit'. Delta is also producing in China, which is no problem for me. In my working life I had to design a power-electronic hybrid circuit for Delta electronics. My experience with them over years and the way how they produced it and handled Q-issues was everything else than good. This is the reason why this component will now be produced by a German company. But we are getting Off-Topic. I think I've said everything.

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May 31, 2012, 04:43:38 PM
 #452

If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.

Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed.

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May 31, 2012, 06:38:05 PM
 #453

If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.

Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed.

Those whirring fans help me sleep....

I can hear my mining hardware standing in the yard.

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May 31, 2012, 10:30:38 PM
 #454

If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.

Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed.

Those whirring fans help me sleep....

I can hear my mining hardware standing in the yard.
I tell myself: on a spaceship/the ISS they have also life supporting whirring stuff Wink Yeah, my own personal spaceship Wink
but undervolting made it a little space capsule Wink

BTW subed and soon paid, deciding if I take a lonely "ion driven f12 space ship" or the whole fleet in one bombardement in 1-3 weeks....


choices.... (imagine the "ALIENS" meme)


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May 31, 2012, 11:03:34 PM
 #455

If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.

Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed.


Yeah.. that is downtime that some of us can't stand.  More quieter fans, watercooling and remote locations are all valid options. Immediately wanting to cram a "loud" fan onto a FPGA board because it is industrial but only running the board when you aren't sleeping makes no sense  Grin

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June 01, 2012, 03:34:54 AM
 #456

If your GPU setup is so noisy it shows me that you don't have to care about the noise. That's fine for you, but not automatically true for everyone else.

Nope, I shut my computer off when I go to bed.


Yeah.. that is downtime that some of us can't stand.  More quieter fans, watercooling and remote locations are all valid options. Immediately wanting to cram a "loud" fan onto a FPGA board because it is industrial but only running the board when you aren't sleeping makes no sense  Grin

Because I think we have different definitions of silent. My HHE undervolted to 5 with the GPU fan shut off and all the other case fans shut off, its almost silent. The slowest AFB1212 undervolted to 5v should be dead silent and last for about 15 years. Those two consumer fans should last about 3 before they quit.

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June 01, 2012, 04:43:35 AM
 #457

Time will tell if it is as good as the spec but the F12 has a 6 year warranty and I am sure I saw a operation lifetime spec of 100K or 150K hours lifetime which is believeable given the type of bearing it has. The one thing they could use to improve is their website.

Yohan
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June 01, 2012, 05:53:19 AM
 #458

Yohan I bet you could raise a lot of preorder funds to bring some form of ASIC to market to compete with Butterfly Labs alleged upcoming release.   Judging by how fast you got the Cairnsmore1 from idea to fruition I bet Enterpoint could start tomorrow and still beat BFL to market.  Something to think about?
 

An ASIC is exponentially more difficult to to produce. BFL claims to have been working on their product for a while, and I've been going back and fourth with them in email, and they might have hinted that they will be accepting orders on the date of the unveiling, which would be awesome!

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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June 01, 2012, 06:15:17 AM
 #459

An ASIC is exponentially more difficult to to produce. BFL claims to have been working on their product for a while, and I've been going back and fourth with them in email, and they might have hinted that they will be accepting orders on the date of the unveiling, which would be awesome!

Its all part of the plan you people around here have proven your willingness to give them your money months in advance of delivery already, free product development financing every businesses dream not to mention the already locked in profit on them boxes as well doing it that way. Oh and these boys do ASIC design as well so they know what they are doing there too.
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June 01, 2012, 06:20:33 AM
 #460

The Cairnsmore1 went from an idea to a unit in the wild..in what...40 or so days?

How long did BFL take to get that first unit out the door after the initial announcement?

If Enterpoint announced plans to bring an ASIC to the game a lot of folks would be pre-ordering/investing with Enterpoint over BFL.  Even with BFL's huge head start Enterpoint would likely make it to market first.

September 2011 announce ship March 2012 and still two months behind on the orders.
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