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Author Topic: Cairnsmore1 - Quad XC6SLX150 Board  (Read 251300 times)
Chefnet
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June 24, 2012, 04:47:45 PM
 #901

cool

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ebereon
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June 24, 2012, 04:51:41 PM
 #902

Power Distribution Board (CAD Image) - Available in approximately 1-2 weeks



Nice one! I hope the dimensions are the same as a cairnmore1 board Smiley

What's the price range of that and i think you have also a recommendation for a PSU that I need to use all connectors?
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June 24, 2012, 04:51:59 PM
 #903

Power Distribution Board (CAD Image) - Available in approximately 1-2 weeks



Why there isnt 4pin molex input? You want to use all the available wires of a PSU right?
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June 24, 2012, 04:58:20 PM
 #904

I think the problem thre would be that 4-pin molex only carry 1 12v line. Where as the pci-e carry 2 to 3 12v lines.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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June 24, 2012, 05:06:49 PM
 #905

I think the problem thre would be that 4-pin molex only carry 1 12v line. Where as the pci-e carry 2 to 3 12v lines.

That is not a problem, LOL you custom made this board bro. You can redistribute anyway you want.
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June 24, 2012, 05:10:15 PM
 #906

That power distribution board looks very well made and I like the fact it'll be stackable with the Cairnsmore1's, that's very nice! Smiley

Shame I wouldn't have any use for it with just my two boards!

If my post helped, I'll happily accept a few bitmills!   15rGg6A1JFZV3b7TTbtpAaiYGdUD1e1oAm
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June 24, 2012, 05:23:09 PM
 #907

The green connectors are not Molex. They are the Pheonix type that we already use a 6 way of on the Cairnsmore1 itself. The contacts on these are rated 12A roughly double that a Molex DD contact can carry. We also have no 5V. It's all 12V and 0V/GND so each PCIe string has 3 connectors connected and therefore 6 contacts each for both 12V and 0V/GND. So the Pheonix side is good for 72A if fully fitted up and that's way more that a PCIE string is rated for.

The Pheonix connector has a range of plug in mating halves including screw terminals. We also have an option to go directly to screw terminals on the boards so there are a range of options. It allows low tech wiring that suits your rig with no special criming tools needed.

I would expect 3-4 boards to be powered from each PCIE string this way but 5 or 6 might be possible. A lot depends on the host ATX power supply and it's wiring. We will look at those and experiment a bit. More on that in the coming weeks. We will be looking at wire grades and what currents can be carried to come up with the best usage in the stage. Whatever way you want to do it this board gives you easy usage of low cost ATX PSUs and the ability to make nice neat wiring rather than fighting the unbendable ATX power strings.

Of course if you want to stack these as well that is possible.
seriouscoin
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June 24, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
 #908

The green connectors are not Molex. They are the Pheonix type that we already use a 6 way of on the Cairnsmore1 itself. The contacts on these are rated 12A roughly double that a Molex DD contact can carry. We also have no 5V. It's all 12V and 0V/GND so each PCIe string has 3 connectors connected and therefore 6 contacts each for both 12V and 0V/GND. So the Pheonix side is good for 72A if fully fitted up and that's way more that a PCIE string is rated for.

The Pheonix connector has a range of plug in mating halves including screw terminals. We also have an option to go directly to screw terminals on the boards so there are a range of options. It allows low tech wiring that suits your rig with no special criming tools needed.

I would expect 3-4 boards to be powered from each PCIE string this way but 5 or 6 might be possible. A lot depends on the host ATX power supply and it's wiring. We will look at those and experiment a bit. More on that in the coming weeks. We will be looking at wire grades and what currents can be carried to come up with the best usage in the stage. Whatever way you want to do it this board gives you easy usage of low cost ATX PSUs and the ability to make nice neat wiring rather than fighting the unbendable ATX power strings.

Of course if you want to stack these as well that is possible.

You should re-read what i said.

I cant believe i have to say this
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June 24, 2012, 05:50:55 PM
 #909



Actuallly I was looking at the post before. Yes that's very much the idea that you can do more or less what you want with the wiring. It's always difficult to get PCIE leads to wire up nicely in a rig always the wrong length and it's hard to split them nicely. Hopefully this board will be of use here. I imagine it will get used for other non-Cairnsmore uses as well. ATX PSU are hard to beat in efficiency terms and high power at a reasonable cost.

The plan is that this is an initial version and we will follow up with one supporting Ethernet as well. That enhanced one won't be done for 2-3 months yet. Depends on how busy we are,
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June 24, 2012, 06:03:17 PM
 #910

Shouldn't you be able to run 6 of these off 1 pcie connector?

Female pcie6--->6 molex

How much power are these using?
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June 24, 2012, 06:04:15 PM
 #911



Actuallly I was looking at the post before. Yes that's very much the idea that you can do more or less what you want with the wiring. It's always difficult to get PCIE leads to wire up nicely in a rig always the wrong length and it's hard to split them nicely. Hopefully this board will be of use here. I imagine it will get used for other non-Cairnsmore uses as well. ATX PSU are hard to beat in efficiency terms and high power at a reasonable cost.

The plan is that this is an initial version and we will follow up with one supporting Ethernet as well. That enhanced one won't be done for 2-3 months yet. Depends on how busy we are,

Currently your board only limits 24pin and PCI-e connectors, i want to know why? Every PSU still has 2-3 molex 4-pin wires (i'm counting only wires because other connectors share the same wire are useless). Why not maximizing the available wires of a PSU? to save few bucks cents on the connector?
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June 24, 2012, 06:13:59 PM
 #912


These are icarus based boards so 18 boards at 40w = 720w

There's plenty of headroom with 6 pci connectors.
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June 24, 2012, 06:48:20 PM
 #913


These are icarus based boards so 18 boards at 40w = 720w

There's plenty of headroom with 6 pci connectors.

40 watt when use Icarus 380MH/s bitstream x 2.

I would say, the board can provide 12A per fpga, if there will be a nice bitstream then count with 12A, the boards limit.
Thats a maximum of 14.4 watt per fpga = 57.6 watt per board (running on it's limit)
18 boards at 57.6w = 1036.8 watt or 86.4A on the 12V.

It's better to have headroom like this if a nice bitstream will come and while there is no such a bitstream, your PSU will run at a nice efficiency.  Wink
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June 24, 2012, 06:58:18 PM
 #914

Currently your board only limits 24pin and PCI-e connectors, i want to know why? Every PSU still has 2-3 molex 4-pin wires (i'm counting only wires because other connectors share the same wire are useless). Why not maximizing the available wires of a PSU? to save few bucks cents on the connector?

Yes we didn't use every last wire but there can be difficulties here as some ATX power supplies have seperate regulation stages and combining them together can mean that they fight and one regulator stage can be very stressed. So for the loss of 2 or 3 wires we left out the molex. That's only equivalent of one PCIE and we do have six of them. What would have been more useful to use was the 12V connectors for motherboards. In the end we went for a practical layout. I would have liked to have 8 PCIE but space didn't allow. However 2 PDBs can be used with one ATX in that case.

We didn't connect the PCIE together because of the fight issue so each of these has 3 Pheonix connectors on it and there are more or less independent.

Of course the remaining Molex can be used directly if you really want every last bit of power out of the PSU. Making simple adaptors for the motherboard 12V is also possible. The PDB gives you the easy way to use use the ATX PSU. There are a bunch of things we could have done and this was just the balance we choose.

If you do use the extra strings for any of this you do need to check individual output, or group, limits from the ATX PSU. That does go for the PCIE as well but much less of a chance of an issue here. We will try and build up a list of configurations we have checked or tested with a given PSU.

This product isn't just designed just for this week. It is designed for the limit of the Cairnsmore1 limit which is about 60W or 5A at 12V.
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June 24, 2012, 07:19:24 PM
 #915

This product isn't just designed just for this week. It is designed for the limit of the Cairnsmore1 limit which is about 60W or 5A at 12V.

Wow! That sounds like enterpoints target about the bitstream is to bring the board on it's limit!
When I take the 800Mh/s at 40W as a standard for a quad board, that would mean nearly 1200Mh/s (I know it's only on my calculator Wink) at 60W! And I'm sure your team will make it.  Cheesy
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June 24, 2012, 07:29:02 PM
 #916

Liking the power board. When it is available will it be possible to just add those to our shipments if we request/pay for them?



Actuallly I was looking at the post before. Yes that's very much the idea that you can do more or less what you want with the wiring. It's always difficult to get PCIE leads to wire up nicely in a rig always the wrong length and it's hard to split them nicely. Hopefully this board will be of use here. I imagine it will get used for other non-Cairnsmore uses as well. ATX PSU are hard to beat in efficiency terms and high power at a reasonable cost.

The plan is that this is an initial version and we will follow up with one supporting Ethernet as well. That enhanced one won't be done for 2-3 months yet. Depends on how busy we are,

Currently your board only limits 24pin and PCI-e connectors, i want to know why? Every PSU still has 2-3 molex 4-pin wires (i'm counting only wires because other connectors share the same wire are useless). Why not maximizing the available wires of a PSU? to save few bucks cents on the connector?


Most powersupplies can be maxed out on PCIe and +12v EPS pins. I don't know why you're throwing a hissy fit over obsolete and bulky 4-pin molex connectors. The better question is why aren't the 8-pin EPS connectors being utilized. 

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June 24, 2012, 08:34:56 PM
 #917


[/quote]

Most powersupplies can be maxed out on PCIe and +12v EPS pins. I don't know why you're throwing a hissy fit over obsolete and bulky 4-pin molex connectors. The better question is why aren't the 8-pin EPS connectors being utilized. 
[/quote]

The EPS certain would have ben nice and we could have got them in on a bigger board. It is a design compromise on the current size and we can always do another one if it looks the right thing to do. We could have shoehorned in more connectors but that might have meant more copper loss because we would have had to thin down the conduction paths. So as i say it is a compromise.

We did look at putting in the 4x2 PCIE as well but could not find the part number for the special keying it has and the Molex website doesn't help very much. Ironically the parts we got samples of could take take the EPS and had the right keying for that. If anyone has the 4x2 board side connector part number let me know and we can look at it for next time. I don't think it makes much difference on power handling they way they do it but might be easier for plugging in the 3x2+2x1 connectors currently common on ATX PSUs.

How this board can be used will be very dependent on how the host ATX PSU is configured and there are lots of variations there to deal with.
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June 24, 2012, 09:21:29 PM
 #918

I believe it is correct that the EPS12V connectors have the positive and the negative swapped relative to a 6/8-pin PCIe connector, so be careful. Even if it fits, you might end up with reverse polarity and that would be bad.

So the 6-pin goes like this (with the connector latch on top):

Code:
+++
---

And I believe the ESP12V goes like this (also with the connector latch on top):

Code:
----
++++

But I don't have one next to me and so I can't check.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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June 24, 2012, 09:24:23 PM
 #919

It is actually the opposite of what you have listed rjk. PCIe has the 12v lines on non-latch side and the CPU4+4/EPS12v has the 12v lines on the latch side.

EDIT: Also, for the 8pin/6+2 PCIe cable the only addition from your current design is the '+2' which is only 2 grounds so not really helpful I think.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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June 24, 2012, 09:25:49 PM
 #920

It is actually the opposite of what you have listed rjk. PCIe has the 12v lines on non-latch side and the CPU4+4/EPS12v has the 12v lines on the latch side.
Thanks for checking, and that reinforces the fact that even if the connector fits it shouldn't be used that way.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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