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Author Topic: Just remove signatures already. As in delete, disable, gone.  (Read 44564 times)
syuhide
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May 30, 2015, 10:04:06 AM
 #281

Quote from: deepceleron's signature
http://we.lovebitco.in/how-bitcoin-works/
1DCeLERonUTsTERdpUNqxKTVMmnwU6reu5
"Certified Schmertified"

There can be legit sigs like yours and mine (where there's either public service stuff or personal projects), but no matter how much we beg for the sig ad spamming to be stopped, it never happens.
or it can be there no Sig under our profile it would help us to think before posting ..
where there is money there is waste.

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June 02, 2015, 06:13:04 AM
 #282

Smart man, OP.

Nothing more needs to be said.

Thanks. One of the reasons I have not been active here recently is, besides that I've said most of what needs to be said (x3200 posts), there is no participation here from intelligent people any more, just spam scams and get rich alt coin schemes. Any legitimate service would be wise to steer clear of rewarding those who would destroy their own currency's forum for profit, and the ultimate solution was given nine months ago in post #1.
DannyHamilton
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June 02, 2015, 01:57:52 PM
 #283

- snip -
there is no participation here from intelligent people any more,
- snip -

Have you found somewhere else I can go where I CAN find conversation with intelligent people?

Feel free to send your response via PM if you don't want the local riff-raff to find out about it.

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June 02, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
 #284

Have you found somewhere else I can go where I CAN find conversation with intelligent people?

Not here. Truly intelligent people understand the damaging consequences on the broader sphere of the community by greed-driven behavior and choose not to engage in such behavior as they realize it is ultimately more rewarding to be good than evil in this lifetime.

I see absolutely no remorse or humanity in the words of most forum posters here trying to whore some b.s. crapcoin, gambling site or HYIP. They are sociopaths and defend stupidity and evil at every turn. I can name a dozen off the top of my head, some of them are "Hero Members." (LOL what a fucking joke). They contribute to society like Christian Bale's character contributed to society in American Psycho.

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alc
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June 04, 2015, 12:54:43 PM
 #285

The SNR is beyond fucked at this point, and the inaction on this one very basic issue makes it clear that the staff are unwilling to take even the simplest step toward remedying the situation.

Shame, really. I certainly find myself visiting less and less; I never posted much anyway, but it's just too much effort trawling through the reams of garbage to get at the interesting stuff.
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June 04, 2015, 12:59:48 PM
 #286

- snip -
it's just too much effort trawling through the reams of garbage to get at the interesting stuff.

Check this out. It has made all the difference, and I actually enjoy this forum and find it useful again.  It has nearly eliminated the garbage.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0

galbros
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June 04, 2015, 05:05:16 PM
 #287

- snip -
it's just too much effort trawling through the reams of garbage to get at the interesting stuff.

Check this out. It has made all the difference, and I actually enjoy this forum and find it useful again.  It has nearly eliminated the garbage.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0

Even though I am (obviously) on it, I think Danny's solution is a great one.  It's user driven, free market, and easily reversed if you want to see someone's posts again.  If more users adopt it then the signature campaigns will lose their value and die a natural death. 

While I think low value posts are the issue not the signature campaigns his solution is clearly working for him and I imagine would for many others.  It at least guarantees you'll never see another signature ad.
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June 04, 2015, 06:28:49 PM
 #288

With sincere respect to Danny's efforts, he is attempting to win a game of whack-a-mole, which history and logic warn against. I wish him well on his war against the moles, but consider it a distinctly Sisyphean task - and more to the point, it shouldn't be necessary. (He also apparently shitcans people for other, more subjective transgressions, such as profanity, which leads to the amusing possibility that, were I to adopt his list, I'd be unable to see my own posts.)

In any case, it's a heavy-handed, all-or-nothing approach to treating a complex symptom, when there's such a simple way of tackling the cause. Nobody needs ad signatures, they communicate nothing of any merit, and it's evident beyond any reasonable doubt that the quality of posting on the forum would be improved by their absence. I just don't understand why the glaringly obvious solution continues to be ignored.
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June 04, 2015, 07:14:17 PM
 #289

With sincere respect to Danny's efforts, he is attempting to win a game of whack-a-mole, which history and logic warn against. I wish him well on his war against the moles, but consider it a distinctly Sisyphean task

Clearly, but until/unless some other solution is presented, this solution at least keeps me from abandoning the forum entirely.

- and more to the point, it shouldn't be necessary.

Sure, but at the moment it is.

(He also apparently shitcans people for other, more subjective transgressions, such as profanity, which leads to the amusing possibility that, were I to adopt his list, I'd be unable to see my own posts.)

You are mistaken.  You are not on the list.  I do not ignore people for using profanity.  I ignore people for "exceeding my patience with posts that contained profanity and offensive language".  I've got a LOT of patience.  There are probably less than a half dozen users on this forum since June 2012 that have been ignored by me because of their offensive language.

In any case, it's a heavy-handed, all-or-nothing approach to treating a complex symptom, when there's such a simple way of tackling the cause.

But it's the best solution I have available to me at the moment.

Nobody needs ad signatures

Nobody needs a bitcoin discussion forum at all.

I just don't understand why the glaringly obvious solution continues to be ignored.

I don't know for certain, but I suspect that the forum administrators and moderators don't want to have the responsibility of trying to decide which signatures are valid, and which are part of a campaign.  Furthermore, it's the low quality posts that are the problem, not the sig ads specifically.  The sig ads unfortunately create an incentive problem that leads to low quality posts, but perhaps the site administration feels that high quality posters should be allowed to benefit financially through advertising for their participation.

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June 04, 2015, 08:10:31 PM
 #290

You are mistaken.  You are not on the list.
Apologies if the intended humour wasn't obvious.

Quote
I don't know for certain, but I suspect that the forum administrators and moderators don't want to have the responsibility of trying to decide which signatures are valid, and which are part of a campaign.
Removing sigs entirely would obviate this responsibility, no?

Quote
perhaps the site administration feels that high quality posters should be allowed to benefit financially through advertising for their participation.
Most people perceive and expect a clear distinction between advertisement and content, and ad sigs blur this significantly. If advertisers want to advertise on the site, they should do it through traditional channels, that don't introduce obvious conflicts of interest.
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June 04, 2015, 10:13:07 PM
 #291

No, why would anyone want to do that.
1- Its a money maker for us users
2-its a cool way to get your service out there
3-I make money from it.

If the mods are considering listening to the OP, please reconsider.


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Athertle
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June 04, 2015, 10:20:58 PM
 #292

No, why would anyone want to do that.
1- Its a money maker for us users
2-its a cool way to get your service out there
3-I make money from it.

If the mods are considering listening to the OP, please reconsider.


I agree with you, but your 1st and 2nd points are literally the exact same point.

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June 04, 2015, 10:37:03 PM
 #293

No, why would anyone want to do that.
1- Its a money maker for us users
2-its a cool way to get your service out there
3-I make money from it.

If the mods are considering listening to the OP, please reconsider.


I agree with you, but your 1st and 2nd points are literally the exact same point.

They are not even close. One is us making money, the other is a service provider getting his service or product out.
2 different things, not even remotely similar.


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hedgy73
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June 04, 2015, 11:30:34 PM
 #294

How many people actually click on signature links? I can probably count on one hand how many times I have.... and never spent a penny on any of them.

However, I understand companies need to advertise somewhere and in this case bitcoin related companies need to advertise here so I'm not that bothered really. I just see past them most of the time.

We live in an advertising frenzy world. Everywhere you look is advertising even in the bottom of beer glasses and on pumps at the petrol station, here is no different.

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June 04, 2015, 11:51:17 PM
 #295

How many people actually click on signature links? I can probably count on one hand how many times I have.... and never spent a penny on any of them.

However, I understand companies need to advertise somewhere and in this case bitcoin related companies need to advertise here so I'm not that bothered really. I just see past them most of the time.

We live in an advertising frenzy world. Everywhere you look is advertising even in the bottom of beer glasses and on pumps at the petrol station, here is no different.

The ads aren't the problem. The problem is the incentive for unknowledgeable people to post as much useless drivel and inane nonsense as they can to increase their post count (and therefore their income). If a bitcoin based company wants to advertise here, they can simply purchase ad space from the forum directly. It's already possible to turn off signatures if you don't want to see them, but it isn't possible to turn off the rediculous amount of nonsense posted by sig ad campaign participants.

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June 05, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
 #296

How many people actually click on signature links? I can probably count on one hand how many times I have.... and never spent a penny on any of them.

However, I understand companies need to advertise somewhere and in this case bitcoin related companies need to advertise here so I'm not that bothered really. I just see past them most of the time.

We live in an advertising frenzy world. Everywhere you look is advertising even in the bottom of beer glasses and on pumps at the petrol station, here is no different.

The ads aren't the problem. The problem is the incentive for unknowledgeable people to post as much useless drivel and inane nonsense as they can to increase their post count (and therefore their income). If a bitcoin based company wants to advertise here, they can simply purchase ad space from the forum directly. It's already possible to turn off signatures if you don't want to see them, but it isn't possible to turn off the rediculous amount of nonsense posted by sig ad campaign participants.

I agree there is a lot of drivel posted here to bump post count. Its a shame advertisers require a certain amount of posts per week / month for people to get paid but that's just the way it is.

Unfortunately its just the world we live in, some members are probably making a living spamming forums like this and many others, at the end of the day if its putting food on their families table then that's fair enough.

The internet is full of spam, facebook , twitter, instagram and hundreds of other websites you visit is full of spam. Its shocking really but something we have to come to terms with sad as it is.

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June 05, 2015, 01:58:46 AM
 #297

Removing sigs entirely would obviate this responsibility, no?

Exactly. That's why I also support removing signatures.

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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June 05, 2015, 02:31:22 PM
 #298

- snip -
there is no participation here from intelligent people any more,
- snip -

Have you found somewhere else I can go where I CAN find conversation with intelligent people?

Feel free to send your response via PM if you don't want the local riff-raff to find out about it.

As far as I know there is some intelligent conversation within the unsystem forum - https://forum.unsystem.net/   which appears temporarily offline .
The problem is a chicken vs egg dilemma because you need some traffic and posting to make contributing and interacting with a forum worthwhile.

Judging from the quantity of shill accounts/hacked accounts/spam accounts recently It really wouldn't take many of us to start a new forum together and scrape some quality posts from this one like http://bitcointa.lk/ did as a good base and build from there with different set of rules to discourage trolling/spamming/shilling.

If you guys want I could pay for the costs of setting this up out of pocket and get some of you guys to help moderate it if interested. I am thinking for consistency using SMF as well but 2.0.10 instead of 1.1.19 here. This isn't made to compete with this forum because the current rules have some advantages of incentivizing more traffic and higher posts(albeit lower quality posts) and it would be great to have another forum as a backup when this one occasionally goes down.

Would this be something people would be interested in participating with or helping moderate?
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June 05, 2015, 02:54:42 PM
 #299

@BitUsher I would be interested to be a part of a new forum (and would likely help with moderation).

Also note that http://ciyam.org/open/ could be used if others were okay with using a completely new forum software platform (which forum members would be able to help develop which perhaps could hold some sort of "nerdtraction").

As I am already paying for the hosting it would require zero cost or effort from others but if an SMF forum is preferable then let's do that.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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June 05, 2015, 03:17:32 PM
Last edit: June 05, 2015, 03:31:46 PM by BitUsher
 #300

@BitUsher I would be interested to be a part of a new forum (and would likely help with moderation).

Also note that http://ciyam.org/open/ could be used if others were okay with using a completely new forum software platform (which forum members would be able to help develop which perhaps could hold some sort of "nerdtraction").

As I am already paying for the hosting it would require zero cost or effort from others but if an SMF forum is preferable then let's do that.


Your forum looks great. I will signup and participate soon. You definitely will be welcome to become a moderator on the new forum if I set it up.

I think there needs to be a few things to make a new forum viable however.... 1) Using SMF and making it very familiar with minimal differences and upgrades... Like mobile friendly. This helps with usability and easing the transition.

Secondly, there needs to be a baseline of content and posts because this forum has built years of great content before starting to go downhill over the last 2 years.

The plan is to have an alternative site with different incentives and rules which we can figure out together and not compete directly with this one. bitcointalk.org despite its recent problems remains the original, and one I will continue to contribute towards, and even promote as well.

Some ideas I had floating around in my head-
1) Allow bitcointalk.org users to migrate and retain their rank and usernames , but only for legit accounts that aren't trolls/shills
2) Sandbox new users in a section for a longer time period and possible make them pay a small btc fee to discourage spamming
3) Share all control and potential future profits with all contributing members where the users own and control the forum
4) have clear rules that prevent signature campaigns and spamming
5) Only focus on bitcoin, and bitcoin related alts and assets.(I.E.. BTC, namecoin(merged mined), counterparty, colored coins, future sidechains, ect...) This is to prevent the encouragement of the cycle of scam artists that infect this forum and shill accounts constantly attacking bitcoin to pump their own alt. (Some alts are fine but I want to create a bitcoin related forum for people to talk)

Since the traffic will initial be very low I will probably start of with a VPS but if the server started getting busy I would build a custom server and colo it for better security, than build a caching and load balancing  frontend server and other improvements in the future.

Are there any other things that I should consider?
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