KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[innerchaos]

Interesting posts here I see Guys I would like to ask one question because I'm going to rent some hash power for few hours (maybe 500 TH) and connect to Kano pool. I just want to achieve more shares for bigger reward when block will be found. What do You think about that, is it even worth?

I am too new to the pool to properly say.. but if I was buying that much hashing power I think I would take that money and buy a fixed order for 16 or 17 TH/s and have that ride for a full 30 days.. I would think you would get more reward from stretching it out over a longer period of time than a flash in the pan to bust a block.  you have to stick it out for the whole 30 days as opposed to a few hours at a high hash rate..

in my understanding of things... the 30 days scenario will earn you something even if the pool has really bad luck.

but the couple hours thing will more than likely not earn as much unless there is fantastic luck.

Like I say though that is my interpretation of how this works and a more seasoned miner operator would be a better judge than I could possibly be.

[1714751024]

1714751024

[CapnBDL]

in my ramblings I realize that we need to collectively do a rain-dance to the mining gods and maybe even offer up a new member as sacrifice to appease the gods and show us favor.  and then I think fuck that I am the new member.

It's been suggested that all noobs to the pool should wear RED PANTIES for their first week. A small sacrifice, at this point it may take a truly unique thong or sling. Lets just hope it doesn't degenerate to the point of requiring anybody to parade around the front yard on a Sunday morning till the neighbors see them  

Parade around in Red Panties.. . WTH where is your mind..... This makes me wonder, "What kind of (to use your words) degenerate's have I decided to befriend here ?" 

LOL

Good ppl here, but in full disclosure, not for the faint of heart. Just sayin'.

[WBF1]

in my ramblings I realize that we need to collectively do a rain-dance to the mining gods and maybe even offer up a new member as sacrifice to appease the gods and show us favor.  and then I think fuck that I am the new member.

It's been suggested that all noobs to the pool should wear RED PANTIES for their first week. A small sacrifice, at this point it may take a truly unique thong or sling. Lets just hope it doesn't degenerate to the point of requiring anybody to parade around the front yard on a Sunday morning till the neighbors see them  

Pics or GTFO haha.

@kano the N in PPLNS is 5X difficulty right? So if we go beyond 500% does that mean shares begin to be dropped off the payment queue? Or is it a per-miner thing? Or are those statements one in the same?

[hurricandave]

https://youtu.be/X7c_ceCOQZg

[kano]

...
@kano the N in PPLNS is 5X difficulty right? So if we go beyond 500% does that mean shares begin to be dropped off the payment queue? Or is it a per-miner thing? Or are those statements one in the same?

Yes if we find a greater than 500% block, shares/shifts do indeed fall off the end and hit the 0 reward arena.

The Diff% is of course the sum of all shares submitted by everyone.

That's rare, but we have had two blocks over 500%
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg11440377#msg11440377

[innerchaos]

https://youtu.be/X7c_ceCOQZg

Alright I will let you off of my holy shit that guys is weird list.... only because I saw that commercial..   hehe

I don't know if I have the stamina to stick with this.. 4 and a half days now.. is there like a hidden conspiracy against kano's pool

[WBF1]

https://youtu.be/X7c_ceCOQZg

Alright I will let you off of my holy shit that guys is weird list.... only because I saw that commercial..   hehe

I don't know if I have the stamina to stick with this.. 4 and a half days now.. is there like a hidden conspiracy against kano's pool

Just in case you aren't joking, I believe block wotholding attacks are only profitable against PPS pools.

Block withholding attacks are possible against any pool, but if the motivation is profit I'm not sure a PPLNS target makes sense.

[kano]

https://youtu.be/X7c_ceCOQZg

Alright I will let you off of my holy shit that guys is weird list.... only because I saw that commercial..   hehe

I don't know if I have the stamina to stick with this.. 4 and a half days now.. is there like a hidden conspiracy against kano's pool

Well you are looking at days, not Diff %, and days is dependent upon pool hash rate.
Lower hash rate expects an average longer times between payouts, but an average higher amount per payout.

Of course a 200% block means (as I said before) you'll get half the average expected number of payouts vs always finding a 100% block.

Blocks are expected on average, to be longer than 200% Diff, 13.5% of the time - i.e. a bit more than 1 in 7 blocks is expected to be over 200% Diff

but even for 300%:

Blocks are expected on average, to be longer than 300% Diff, 5% of the time - i.e. a bit more than 1 in 20 blocks is expected to be over 300% Diff

... and those figures are the same on every pool (or worse if the pool has on going ignored problems ... like Eligius)

... AND we just got a block (just as I was about to click on post)

[aarons6]

woot, now lets hope for a few green ones to go with it.

i just switched my 2 s3s back to the solo pool too. so the payout should be good.

[hurricandave]

https://youtu.be/X7c_ceCOQZg

Alright I will let you off of my holy shit that guys is weird list.... only because I saw that commercial..   hehe

I don't know if I have the stamina to stick with this.. 4 and a half days now.. is there like a hidden conspiracy against kano's pool

Well you are looking at days, not Diff %, and days is dependent upon pool hash rate.
Lower hash rate expects an average longer times between payouts, but an average higher amount per payout.

Of course a 200% block means (as I said before) you'll get half the average expected number of payouts vs always finding a 100% block.

Blocks are expected on average, to be longer than 200% Diff, 13.5% of the time - i.e. a bit more than 1 in 7 blocks is expected to be over 200% Diff

but even for 300%:

Blocks are expected on average, to be longer than 300% Diff, 5% of the time - i.e. a bit more than 1 in 20 blocks is expected to be over 300% Diff

... and those figures are the same on every pool (or worse if the pool has on going ignored problems ... like Eligius)

... AND we just got a block (just as I was about to click on post)

Think its time to go have a BudLight Now

[innerchaos]

yea I am glad a block was found.. but uh I earned less in almost 5 days than I would have gotten in 1 day.. not sure what I could have done differently

I pointed all my gear to the pool and it shows almost 8TH on the ckpool stats hash rate

but in my rewards N/AVG it only shows 2.8TH

My miners never went down that I am aware of so what did I do wrong here

[aarons6]

yea I am glad a block was found.. but uh I earned less in almost 5 days than I would have gotten in 1 day.. not sure what I could have done differently

I pointed all my gear to the pool and it shows almost 8TH on the ckpool stats hash rate

but in my rewards N/AVG it only shows 2.8TH

My miners never went down that I am aware of so what did I do wrong here

you could have listened.. lol..

for one you just got here, so you havent filled up your shares yet..
2nd it was a long block, over 200%, that means you get half what you would have made if the block was 100% or a quarter if it was 50%..


its ok, just relax.. when we get blocks that are less then 100% we make more then a pps pool.. of course it goes both ways and you make less if it goes above 100%.

so far tho the avg is on our side.. currently the last 10 blocks is over 135%..

[kano]

yea I am glad a block was found.. but uh I earned less in almost 5 days than I would have gotten in 1 day.. not sure what I could have done differently

I pointed all my gear to the pool and it shows almost 8TH on the ckpool stats hash rate

but in my rewards N/AVG it only shows 2.8TH

My miners never went down that I am aware of so what did I do wrong here

It shows how many shares you submitted (Your N Diff) in the reward time (N Range = 279hr 48m 34s) and converts that to a hash rate.
If you were mining for 1/3 of the reward time, it will show 1/3 of your full hash rate.

One way to understand PPLNS, if the explanations don't make any sense, is to stop mining on kano.is now and see what happens.
Over the next 500% Diff submitted to the pool (~280hrs at the moment), any blocks we find, you will continue to get paid after you stop mining.
If we find more than 4 blocks, your total reward should be better than PPS, if we find less than 4 blocks, your total reward will be worse than PPS.

If you started mining 3 weeks ago, your reward by now would have you wondering why you ever mined anywhere else
But that would also be a misunderstanding of Luck and the 5N (500%) PPLNS.

As I said before,

PPLNS is (over the short term) purely luck based.
...

[CapnBDL]

yea I am glad a block was found.. but uh I earned less in almost 5 days than I would have gotten in 1 day.. not sure what I could have done differently

I pointed all my gear to the pool and it shows almost 8TH on the ckpool stats hash rate

but in my rewards N/AVG it only shows 2.8TH

My miners never went down that I am aware of so what did I do wrong here

Welp...it's been explained well by 2 others, and if you'll remember, I also relayed to you that your first few payouts weren't going to be up to par /w what you felt they should be...hang in there. Kano put it best by saying 'stop' mining now and you'll still get paid (until your shares are used up,  basically).

Ya gotta trust someone, sometime. Be cool.

Now...about those red pantie pics...send 'em out, we need proof.

[innerchaos]

Welp...it's been explained well by 2 others, and if you'll remember, I also relayed to you that your first few payouts weren't going to be up to par /w what you felt they should be...hang in there. Kano put it best by saying 'stop' mining now and you'll still get paid (until your shares are used up,  basically).

Ya gotta trust someone, sometime. Be cool.

Now...about those red pantie pics...send 'em out, we need proof.

Yea I knew it was going to be less but it was still a shock...

so now I wait another 4 days until the next one.. lol

I will have to get back to you on the whole pantie thing...

[WBF1]

Welp...it's been explained well by 2 others, and if you'll remember, I also relayed to you that your first few payouts weren't going to be up to par /w what you felt they should be...hang in there. Kano put it best by saying 'stop' mining now and you'll still get paid (until your shares are used up,  basically).

Ya gotta trust someone, sometime. Be cool.

Now...about those red pantie pics...send 'em out, we need proof.

Yea I knew it was going to be less but it was still a shock...

so now I wait another 4 days until the next one.. lol

I will have to get back to you on the whole pantie thing...

At 1351 TH, 100% expected time is about 1.82 days.

[kano]

Payout 361844 sent
ec55e46b9936d48ea668106a9c519879f996bc2c5225b3b8e96a62a8a03e7f5a
and confirmed

[innerchaos]

It shows how many shares you submitted (Your N Diff) in the reward time (N Range = 279hr 48m 34s) and converts that to a hash rate.
If you were mining for 1/3 of the reward time, it will show 1/3 of your full hash rate.

One way to understand PPLNS, if the explanations don't make any sense, is to stop mining on kano.is now and see what happens.
Over the next 500% Diff submitted to the pool (~280hrs at the moment), any blocks we find, you will continue to get paid after you stop mining.
If we find more than 4 blocks, your total reward should be better than PPS, if we find less than 4 blocks, your total reward will be worse than PPS.

If you started mining 3 weeks ago, your reward by now would have you wondering why you ever mined anywhere else
But that would also be a misunderstanding of Luck and the 5N (500%) PPLNS.

As I said before,

PPLNS is (over the short term) purely luck based.
...

Thank You.. Even though I am new to your pool I cant express enough how thankful I am that you have taken the time to initiate and still take the time to maintain this pool.

If I sounded like I was complaining.. I did not mean to. I am more like Sheldon on BBT. I just say whatever is on my mind and cant understand why your not in my head hearing exactly what I meant to say rather than how I said it, And I appreciate yours as well as everyone's advice... (well maybe not everyone's pantie boy)

I am still pointing to this pool and hope to do so for the foreseeable future. I realize the potential otherwise I would not have started down this path..

[PPOC]

Just curious, does it make sense to rent hash on a PPLNS pool? I know you get paid for every share as long as its under 500%, but your getting paid based on 100% luck which is currently .0101, I think. That said you would have to rent the hash at lower then that and probably by a few points like .0098 or lower for this to be profitable. Does that make sense?

I've rented hash many times and pointed to Slush because of their reward system and if I think a block will break at 87-90% CDF, again just a guess then rent about a hour before that time and you would be paid at your scored hash rate when it hits. Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. Guess it's like rolling the dice at that point. I understand that scenario very well, but not sure I get the impact of renting on a PPLNS share.

I think Ghash pays for the shifts you contribute shares for a particular block, so if you rent and contribute to all shifts in a protocolar block and that block is under better then 100% luck, and your paying below .0101 for the hash, then you make coin, again my simple interpretation of the way it would work.

Feel free to comments if you have done this and how it would work on a PPLNS system.

Thanks,

[xZork]

Just curious, does it make sense to rent hash on a PPLNS pool? I know you get paid for every share as long as its under 500%, but your getting paid based on 100% luck which is currently .0101, I think. That said you would have to rent the hash at lower then that and probably by a few points like .0098 or lower for this to be profitable. Does that make sense?

I've rented hash many times and pointed to Slush because of their reward system and if I think a block will break at 87-90% CDF, again just a guess then rent about a hour before that time and you would be paid at your scored hash rate when it hits. Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. Guess it's like rolling the dice at that point. I understand that scenario very well, but not sure I get the impact of renting on a PPLNS share.

I think Ghash pays for the shifts you contribute shares for a particular block, so if you rent and contribute to all shifts in a protocolar block and that block is under better then 100% luck, and your paying below .0101 for the hash, then you make coin, again my simple interpretation of the way it would work.

Feel free to comments if you have done this and how it would work on a PPLNS system.

Thanks,

I rent hash all the time on this pool. If you want to get an idea of the effect it is going to have this is the method I use for a "ball park". Log in and go to the reward page. There you will see the previous blocks, look at the last block and make note of the N Range, currently 279hr 48m 34s and the pool avg currently 1.06PHs.  Both of those are about to change significantly because melancon came back with quite a bit of power but none the less, this is a ball park. When the pool has a stable hash rate this is much more accurate. Anyway, shifts run about 45 minutes, so based on the last block there are about 372 shifts that were counted for the payout. Copy the table from the shifts page and paste into excel and delete the lower shifts to bring it to 372 columns (next block is going to be more, but hey this is a ball park). Do a find and replace on THs with nothing to get rid of the THs in the shift column and then trow an average function below it ( F ).

Now fuck around. You can get an idea of how renting hash in a burst or over long term is going to change your average that is going to be counted on the next block.  I prefer to do long steady rentals because of the pool size. But it is all luck.

In short I am not a pro and I am a bit inebriated. When I did my first rental here months ago I hit hard and the results were not what I expected. But yes, renting here does work and it does on every pool, it just works a bit different depending on the pool.

Cheers!