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Author Topic: KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2436 blocks  (Read 5350545 times)
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kano (OP)
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October 11, 2015, 02:00:23 PM
 #4981

so the previous block was an orphan or what?
No, it wasn't a block.
It was (as I said above) a share that didn't meet network difficulty.
You could look at it another way if you don't follow the meaning, it is simply one of the eleventy-billion shares found so far that wasn't a block.
In terms of usefulness, it's the same as a 1042 Diff share.

ckpool checks all shares within 1% (or better) of being a block to be sure of no rounding errors or problems.
It was within 1% of being a block, but wasn't good enough to be a block.
It got checked anyway, and bitcoind replied "high-hash" meaning no good.

As I've mentioned a number of pages back, my ckdb shows something for all the attempts to submit blocks to bitcoind.
Orphans, Stale, High-Diff, Valid and anything else that bitcoind might reply Smiley
By default, if it fails, it will end up being listed as an orphan if I don't intervene before the next network block shows up.

In this case I flagged it as Unworthy since it wasn't actually a block to start with.

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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October 12, 2015, 08:31:43 AM
 #4982

please confirm... please confirm... please confirm...   Shocked


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. Graphene Airdrop Coming Soon by Phore .
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kano (OP)
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October 12, 2015, 08:35:39 AM
 #4983

It should correct the numbers after the next network block ... thus the '~' Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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October 12, 2015, 08:50:10 AM
 #4984

Good start of the week!
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October 12, 2015, 09:53:59 AM
 #4985

Good start of the week!

Yea it is, was nice to see we didn't have to wait another 80 hours for a block to show up. Just glad it wasn't another stale or orphan block. Always hurts to see almost 80 hours go by and get hit with one of those.

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October 12, 2015, 11:53:09 AM
 #4986

Yeah a few high Diff blocks right next to each other makes it tough.

No orphans or stales, but an unworthy 'not quite good enough' block doesn't help either Sad

Only one orphan in the last '12 months' means either I'm doing something right or we're lucky Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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October 12, 2015, 12:11:19 PM
 #4987

Yeah a few high Diff blocks right next to each other makes it tough.

No orphans or stales, but an unworthy 'not quite good enough' block doesn't help either Sad

Only one orphan in the last '12 months' means either I'm doing something right or we're lucky Smiley

Oh I thought the not so worthy block turned into a orphans or stale. Which both have different meanings I know. So this would be a first for me to see a block that just wasn't good enough. Is there a way to detect this from the start? I am sure if there was we would have gotten it in the first place. But I mean as whole really, I mean if the block-chain sees this type of transaction is there a way to broadcast the failure and tell the miners to change over to the next block or is that what already happened?

kano (OP)
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October 12, 2015, 12:40:14 PM
 #4988

No, as I said on the previous page, it's not a block at all.

At the moment, until the next diff change, a share has to have a difficulty of >= 60,813,224,039.44034576 to be a block.
Thus in terms of finding a share that will reward everyone, it doesn't matter if the share difficulty is 1,024 or 60,236,096,986.205208 or even 60,813,224,039.44034575, it's still just a share, not a block.

The 'Unworthy' ones are those that have a difficulty below what's required for a block, so don't count as a block.
They were close, within 1%, so ckpool tested them just in case there was some rounding error in the calculations, but they weren't good enough.

My code in ckdb records on the blocks page, ALL shares that were sent to bitcoind to be tested to see if they were blocks.
Thus there can be 3 types on there:
1) Blocks
2) Unworthy
3) Orphans
CKDB assumes all failed shares are orphans, and I can flag anything as 'Unworthy' if that's what it really was.

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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October 12, 2015, 11:21:33 PM
 #4989

I'm throwing some U3's over here for a few days for fun.  Figure it will be a fun way to test my results without using to much money in gear.

I'm looking forward to trying this pool though.  Always found it intresting to say the least when it has great time with blocks.   Looks like last few blocks have not been to friendly though.
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October 12, 2015, 11:45:46 PM
 #4990

I'm throwing some U3's over here for a few days for fun.  Figure it will be a fun way to test my results without using to much money in gear.

I'm looking forward to trying this pool though.  Always found it intresting to say the least when it has great time with blocks.   Looks like last few blocks have not been to friendly though.

Don't forget this pool reward at full potential  only after 5x the total share of the current difficulty.

That means you may have to let your u3 1+ week before you get the full reward on your payout!

Happy mining Smiley
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October 13, 2015, 01:46:17 AM
 #4991

I'm throwing some U3's over here for a few days for fun.  Figure it will be a fun way to test my results without using to much money in gear.

I'm looking forward to trying this pool though.  Always found it intresting to say the least when it has great time with blocks.   Looks like last few blocks have not been to friendly though.

Don't forget this pool reward at full potential  only after 5x the total share of the current difficulty.

That means you may have to let your u3 1+ week before you get the full reward on your payout!

Happy mining Smiley

Thank you for this!  I would have wondered what was happening.  Guess I missed that.

Is this to reward those who stay long term with pool?  Or what is main reasoning?
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October 13, 2015, 02:02:28 AM
 #4992

I'm throwing some U3's over here for a few days for fun.  Figure it will be a fun way to test my results without using to much money in gear.

I'm looking forward to trying this pool though.  Always found it intresting to say the least when it has great time with blocks.   Looks like last few blocks have not been to friendly though.

Don't forget this pool reward at full potential  only after 5x the total share of the current difficulty.

That means you may have to let your u3 1+ week before you get the full reward on your payout!

Happy mining Smiley

Thank you for this!  I would have wondered what was happening.  Guess I missed that.

Is this to reward those who stay long term with pool?  Or what is main reasoning?

The main reasoning is to prevent pool hopping.  That is the purpose of the PPLNS payout system.  You will still get paid the same over time as you would have with proportional.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
kano (OP)
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October 13, 2015, 03:02:18 AM
Last edit: October 13, 2015, 03:58:44 AM by kano
 #4993

No, it has nothing to do with pool hopping.

If you hop, you will get the same reward on the shares you submit as if you don't hop.

Each share is rewarded in the 5Nd after the share, independent of how many shares you submit or when you mine.

The aim of the 5Nd is to reduce variance.

Edit: 2 things:

1) The biggest reason for using PPLNS rather than Prop, is that with Prop the payout is unfair for long term miners.
Short term miners who hop at 43% diff will be paid a lot more per share on Prop than those who don't hop on Prop.

2) The thing that affects your payout on our pool is "luck"
The factors not related to "luck", but most pools call "luck", are minimal at this pool, much smaller than most pools.
These factors are the ones that affect successfully getting blocks when miners find them.

--

Payout 378548 sent
132b1b331f352ed1817f2132f4d84b8fd10444f441354af5015c914ca80b713c
and confirmed 25min ago

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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October 13, 2015, 12:15:32 PM
 #4994

Not to tease anyone...

But I'm having a Chicken salad at this lunch break...  Grin
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October 13, 2015, 12:33:24 PM
 #4995

Yeah some under 100% would be nice Cheesy

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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October 13, 2015, 12:48:40 PM
 #4996

Just got back in town, and looks like I'm going to be having chicken every night this week!

Yeah some under 100% would be nice Cheesy
Time for some sub 100's for sure!

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October 13, 2015, 04:46:34 PM
 #4997

Not to tease anyone...

But I'm having a Chicken salad at this lunch break...  Grin

Haha, I've been a vegetarian my whole life (hippy parents), but if I had more miners I would consider eating chicken every day as well.
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October 13, 2015, 10:43:23 PM
 #4998

The chicken is in the oven now... Cheesy
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October 14, 2015, 12:02:03 AM
Last edit: October 14, 2015, 12:32:27 AM by sloopy
 #4999

I'm throwing some U3's over here for a few days for fun.  Figure it will be a fun way to test my results without using to much money in gear.

I'm looking forward to trying this pool though.  Always found it interesting to say the least when it has great time with blocks.   Looks like last few blocks have not been to friendly though.

Don't forget this pool reward at full potential  only after 5x the total share of the current difficulty.

That means you may have to let your u3 1+ week before you get the full reward on your payout!

Happy mining Smiley

Thank you for this!  I would have wondered what was happening.  Guess I missed that.

Is this to reward those who stay long term with pool?  Or what is main reasoning?

Hey notlist3d

Check out the kano.is site, and at the top right there is a help button and when you hover over it the Payouts button pops out, click there.
It has an excellent description of PPLNS, 5ND.
It is extremely informative by sharing several details but also simple enough people get it. I'm sure in all your mining time you have seen some unique payment systems, and understanding some, well, many great people don't have the patience or some don't have the know how to run it on a calculator, and no offense, don't ask my help for Calc when I have a headche either haha.My daughter loves to help though. We practiced on miner ROI. She had more fun than I did looking at the numbers. :/ badump bump.

Anyway, check that out if you feel like it and if you want to run through it PM or chat sometime I'd be happy to. Kano made it easy to run through when you've done it a bit.
The same goes for anyone else. I am not a mathematical wizard by any means, and I see people here everyday who can probably do a better job on the math, but I can do well enough  Wink

Also, I wanted to pickup a Pi, or something Pi like. I don't mind spending a few more dollars for something which has a tiny bit better hardware, but I also understand you can get into spending some bucks quick when you put a display, etc on them.
Do you or anyone have any advice on which Pi, with all the fixins, or another device which can run anything setup to be run for a Pi, minera and such. I have a couple of other projects I want to learn with one or something like one, I especially like some of the remote monitoring applications and the flexibility of different add on hardware / peripherals.

Gekkoscience compac sticks gave me an even worse bug and the only cure is a stinker. After playing with these sticks for two weeks all I want to do is be a tweaker.

Edited to comment further regarding the 5ND PPLNS
I wanted to give you a short version on payout expectations.
The first payouts are small. I know you said you had sticks here, and what you will see is all of your shares accounted for, and you begin slowly rolling in as far as payouts go BUT the way it normally goes once you are charged up / ramped up over 5ND you begin getting full payouts.
At Kano.is Go to workers then shifts and you will see your shift amount increasing up until you reach your maximum with whatever HW you have on the account.

Now the cool part, really sick surprise I am going to ruin for you. I started here pretty much early this year. I always dig whatever Kano or CK might be talking about something killer and you have seen the amazing payout runs. Well we hit a dry spell after a few months and I am reading all of this old school hopping stuff, where (and maybe you were mining then) but where it looked like it was all good to hop. It was a big thing. Many, many people were regularly hopping from pool to pool. Some had schedules like when the state of X pool reaches V, then move my miners to B pool. Same thing there, define a set of variables, wash repeat. Some payout schemes were so advantageous (and anyone feel free to correct me ) that it was as open as we are talking right now, people would go

So I thought hell lets try it with a little bit of hash. I made a huge mistake and moved a significant amount of my hash to another pool. At first I dug it. I thought the UI had a few more buttons, the statistics were everywhere and we were hitting blocks, every few hours. Then I started realizing how much of the UI I used, the blocks stopped coming in, which I was getting way less of too!
The sick-cool-wonderful thing was I was still getting payouts from Kano. Nice payouts, just about the same for the first few and then tapering off, but they never stopped.

Kano had one of the famous kano streaks and I added up how much I would have made, and I know you shouldn't hop around these days, so I waited, and then boom, another fabulous streak while my new pool payouts were in the gutter but my old kano shares were still popping for me left and right. Wash repeat one more time and I said goodbye and hello with everything back home here.

I have learned low hash is not bad, especially when we have runs like we do. A month or so back man we were at 1.6 or 1.8 and they were dropping in so badass. Low hashrate meant bigger pieces of pie, and it was bomb diggity seeing a whole bitcoin roll in over a day. Obviously my biggest payout amounts, and I appreciate how Kano runs things. Very transparent.

I know you have your sticks, but hey man if you consider even moving one miner over here to test it, I don't think you will be disappointed at all. I think you will feel like home, you just have to give the chicken gods an offering Tongue

Seriously, always feel free to hit me up, and I plan on bugging you some as well if I get a Pi soon.

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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October 14, 2015, 12:10:22 AM
 #5000

I'm throwing some U3's over here for a few days for fun.  Figure it will be a fun way to test my results without using to much money in gear.

I'm looking forward to trying this pool though.  Always found it intresting to say the least when it has great time with blocks.   Looks like last few blocks have not been to friendly though.

Don't forget this pool reward at full potential  only after 5x the total share of the current difficulty.

That means you may have to let your u3 1+ week before you get the full reward on your payout!

Happy mining Smiley

Thank you for this!  I would have wondered what was happening.  Guess I missed that.

Is this to reward those who stay long term with pool?  Or what is main reasoning?

Hey notlist3d

Check out the kano.is site, and at the top right there is a help button and when you hover over it the Payouts button pops out, click there.
It has an excellent description of PPS.
It is extremely informative by sharing several details but also simple enough people get it. I'm sure in all your mining time you have seen some unique payment systems, and understanding some, well, many great people don't have the patience or some don't have the know how to run it on a calculator, and no offense, don't ask my help for Calc when I have a headche either haha.My daughter loves to help though. We practiced on miner ROI. She had more fun than I did looking at the numbers. :/ badump bump.

Anyway, check that out if you feel like it and if you want to run through it PM or chat sometime I'd be happy to. Kano made it easy to run through when you've done it a bit.
The same goes for anyone else. I am not a mathematical wizard by any means, and I see people here everyday who can probably do a better job on the math, but I can do well enough  Wink

Also, I wanted to pickup a Pi, or something Pi like. I don't mind spending a few more dollars for something which has a tiny bit better hardware, but I also understand you can get into spending some bucks quick when you put a display, etc on them.
Do you or anyone have any advice on which Pi, with all the fixins, or another device which can run anything setup to be run for a Pi, minera and such. I have a couple of other projects I want to learn with one or something like one, I especially like some of the remote monitoring applications and the flexibility of different add on hardware / peripherals.

Gekkoscience compac sticks gave me an even worse bug and the only cure is a stinker. After playing with these sticks for two weeks all I want to do is be a tweaker.



Tanks for typing this out.  I appreciate the formation.   I just suspected on payout... I should not have assumed. 

As far as RPI I really like it.  If your using compac sticks I suggest Linux and raspbian on RPI is a form of debian.  It does great with the compac-cgminer package.  If your just using compacs RPI is a pretty good bet.  You really don't need to make it fancy with moitor I just use a monitor to set it then let it run.  Only if power goes do I need to touch it after getting it all runing.

Only thing that you should wait is if you have some U3's.  They are kinda a pain sometimes.  I am hoping the antminer router will host U3's without as many zombies.  But it is not really known.  So if you are using U3's I would wait to see what the router does.  If it's great get it, if not go RPI. If using U3's.
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