KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2436 blocks

[kano]

Payouts 390413 and 390432 sent
aa4baed1cb6010f8663e15b645a2ae33e465f6b5a06b273f926a6054a8537d06
25520aff64796656b220d36cee9ea1228a43b00a22b5967486573adf8fb0e7e6
and confirmed

[vh]

Two example days, when I was mining with an S3. please note that I do not mine constantly, its a hobby, so I have picked two days when I'm sure I mined all day

18th nov
384195    18/Nov 19:04   24.82829424   329.586G   178hr 36m 31s   2.20PHs   0.00%   13.514M   90.27GHs   0.00101805

24th Dec
389909    24/Dec 02:59    25.39503317   469.643G   100hr 41m 17s   5.56PHs   0.00%   4.522M   53.58GHs   0.00024451

First thing I noticed is that on the 18th when the pool was only 2.2ph I got more that 4x the reward than I did on the 25th when the pool was 5.56ph, I can see and understand that as the pool gets larger my S3  is a smaller and smaller share of the total ph and so get I a smaller share of the total reward.

You say that you mine off and on, you picked two "days" that you mined all day, but did you mine the full 5N prior to those blocks you picked? The answer is no. If you look at your average hashrate for those two blocks you picked you will see the average rate for the first one was 90ghs the second was 53ghs, so my guess is that you mined for nearly 1.7x longer during the 5N of the first block.

You can't compare blocks, you would need to compare something like a full week or month, and would need to mine for the same amount of time.

The other pool you were using was probably PPS, and for short duration would appear to payout better, but if you looked at a longer timespan it will be less then you would be getting here (as long as our luck stays as good as it has been).

Ditto.
"You can't compare blocks, you would need to compare something like a full week or month, and would need to mine for the same amount of time."

Looking only at the Your BTC columns between different payout is comparing apples to oranges.

Although my favorite is BTC.   The other two significant pieces you are overlooking there on the snapsot.

N Range = can be seen almost like to as 5Nd.   It will shink with pool speed.
N Average = your avg hash over that range.   Should equal your equipment speed.

The S3 is OOB capable of ~440GHs theoretical.   
Samples showing N average at 90GHs and 53GHs.   

From your two sample points,
100 vs 178, rounding up to about 2x as fast payouts (kind of).
53 vs 90, rounding down to about 1/2 the effort (kind of).
plus one difficulty adjustment that will drop profits by 18% (deciding factor).

1/4 of the BTC payout looks right.

do a forum search for, ckpoolmonitor.  if you want another view with better math than above.

[StevenD]

Hi If I show you a few days either side of those two, you will see that they were pretty std formy mining

from the 18th

384195   18/Nov 19:04   24.82829424   329.586G   178hr 36m 31s   2.20PHs   0.00%   13.514M   90.27GHs   0.00101805
384086   18/Nov 01:46   25.01535297   330.527G   179hr 43m 57s   2.19PHs   0.00%   14.606M   96.95GHs   0.00110543
384072   17/Nov 23:30   24.91304424   329.425G   178hr 57m 40s   2.20PHs   0.00%   14.606M   97.37GHs   0.00110459
383851   16/Nov 12:23   24.88551424   329.785G   182hr 21m 39s   2.16PHs   0.00%   14.606M   95.56GHs   0.00110217

and from the 24th

390432    27/Dec 07:42   24.81187616   469.898G   96hr 59m 1s   5.78PHs   0.00%   6.848M   84.24GHs   0.00036157
390413    27/Dec 05:52   24.88483546   469.032G   96hr 41m 1s   5.79PHs   0.00%   6.848M   84.50GHs   0.00036330
390118    25/Dec 15:01   25.18862600   468.879G   96hr 10m 17s   5.82PHs   0.00%   6.848M   84.95GHs   0.00036786
389909    24/Dec 02:59   25.39503317   469.643G   100hr 41m 17s   5.56PHs   0.00%   4.522M   53.58GHs   0.00024451

The most recent rewards have been cut quite a lot

Over the 16th to 18th I earned   0.00433024

Over the 24th to 27th I earned   0.00133724

thats a big drop, I know its because the pool went from 2.2ph upto the current 5.7ph so lower payments are to be expected, and I understand that this is what should happen.

But, today alone, the other pool has already paid me on 9 blocks

25808   27/12/2015 19:28   66 minutes   40.05 Ph/s   455.9 Gh/s   0.00028074   25.17061072 BTC   99
25807   27/12/2015 18:21   4 minutes   39.68 Ph/s   449.0 Gh/s   0.00027809   25.07554791 BTC   85
25806   27/12/2015 18:17   8 hours   39.67 Ph/s   452.5 Gh/s   0.0002806   25.10373606 BTC   83
25805   27/12/2015 09:49   77 minutes   39.66 Ph/s   459.1 Gh/s   0.00028463   25.09182637 BTC   19
25804   27/12/2015 08:32   3 hours   39.37 Ph/s   438.7 Gh/s   0.00027438   25.12638663 BTC   9
25803   27/12/2015 04:33   111 minutes   39.81 Ph/s   432.7 Gh/s   0.00026701   25.06730967 BTC   Confirmed
25802   27/12/2015 02:41   2 minutes   39.76 Ph/s   465.9 Gh/s   0.00028744   25.02955979 BTC   Confirmed
25801   27/12/2015 02:39   35 minutes   39.84 Ph/s   459.6 Gh/s   0.00028428   25.14479173 BTC   Confirmed
25800   27/12/2015 02:03   2 hours   39.81 Ph/s   447.5 Gh/s   0.00027711   25.15742609 BTC   Confirmed
               
Thats a total of 0.00251428 already today, ad again, for me, today still has 5hrs to go.

I know that luck has a lot to do with it,

but with the luck I have had, I received payments on 23 blocks found since the evening of the 24th, and that gave me 0.00638135 from my one S3

To get this even with a full 5Nd here would mean me buying more miners, because although the pool has raised to 6ph, it isnt yet getting enough blocks, to give enough payouts in the 100+hrs that is the 5Nd to equal what I am rewarded as PPS in the 40ph pool or what I was getting when the 5Nd was 170hrs in November and the Kano pool was just 2ph.

As I said, I think there must be a sweet spot, where a pool matches the hashrate, and as it gets bigger you fall into or out of the sweet spots, and I think anyone who is currently mining less than about 2th is not currently in a sweet spot, I think there probably suffering like I was, I think the only people winning in the current 6ph are the top 20 users who are gaining from the other 300+ users helping them ride their own sweet spot wave.

Ste

[vh]

0.00036157 * 5 = 0.00180785 BTC @ 5N, @ 97 hrs

0.00180785 / 4.042 Days =  0.000447266 BTC/Day for 84GHs

put 85GHs in an online calculator and see what you can get.

edit: epic math fail on my part.

[ZACHM]

StevenD,

I don't think you are understanding how the payout system of PPLNS works vs the PPS of the other pool you are using.

Take a look at how I explained it earlier:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg13198117#msg13198117

[vh]

There might be something there, but comparing different hash rate at different difficulty at different payout system makes it hard to pinpoint.

Different Difficulty = ~20% difference
Different Pools = ~2% difference
Different Hash Rate = makes the compare difficult to repond to.   
the 5Nd looks stable over a few days but varies over the examples.  using same "equipment" but not same hashrate.

[StevenD]

I admit, there might still be a few xmas mince pies hassling my brain cells

but, as I understand it, from the shifts page

5qug6 valentina   Dec-24 00:33:09   47m 27s   284.217k   646   428.76GHs   2.219k   128.08   4   0.02137   79.86%

the 4 is the number of times the shift has received a payment (block found) within the 5Nd period, which I know varies its hours depending upon pool hash rate and diff,

the  0.02137  is the number of satoshis that I will be paid for that shift, per share submitted, so that gets  multiplied by the 284.217k shares that I submitted..

is that correct ?

Ste

[sky_g]

Last three months i was on different pool . Eventually all pool pay in same range with PPS system.

With PPLNS -With current rate (As Hash power increase on Kano)_we must find 2 blocks a day to get  paid better than PPS.

In month of Oct 1 block a day using PPLNS was enough get paid more than PPS system.

Above is general conclusion.

If i am wrong consider as a mistake...correct the mistake and we move on.

Thanks
Sky

[StevenD]

the 5Nd looks stable over a few days but varies over the examples.  using same "equipment" but not same hashrate.

Hi

It was the same S3, but I have a confession, between november and decemeber, I did a bit of pre xmas surgery because I thought it was running a bit to hot, I found the inside was stuffed with dust bunnies, so I stripped it down and blew it out with an airline, unplugged and tried to clean all the connections, even added a wifi antena, then after putting back together I updated the firmware, and threatened it, that if it didn't run cooler and faster, I would sell it on ebay..

apparently this threat seemed to work, because it runs cooler, and faster, like it did when it was new. still wired in as yet, but planning on using wifi.

Ste

[Jethroz]

the 5Nd looks stable over a few days but varies over the examples.  using same "equipment" but not same hashrate.

Hi

It was the same S3, but I have a confession, between november and decemeber, I did a bit of pre xmas surgery because I thought it was running a bit to hot, I found the inside was stuffed with dust bunnies, so I stripped it down and blew it out with an airline, unplugged and tried to clean all the connections, even added a wifi antena, then after putting back together I updated the firmware, and threatened it, that if it didn't run cooler and faster, I would sell it on ebay..

apparently this threat seemed to work, because it runs cooler, and faster, like it did when it was new. still wired in as yet, but planning on using wifi.

Ste

This is what keeps grabbing my attention, and likely what sky_g is referring to:

You compare Kano ->
384195   18/Nov 19:04   24.82829424   329.586G   178hr 36m 31s   2.20PHs   0.00%   13.514M   90.27GHs   0.00101805
-and-
390432    27/Dec 07:42   24.81187616   469.898G   96hr 59m 1s   5.78PHs   0.00%   6.848M   84.24GHs   0.00036157

With your other pool ->
25808   27/12/2015 19:28   66 minutes   40.05 Ph/s   455.9 Gh/s   0.00028074   25.17061072 BTC   99

It appears you didn't have a S3 (~450GH/s) pointed at Kano for the full 5nd when it was at the other pool. You are comparing an apple to a hazelnut...

[ZACHM]

Yes, apple vs hazelnut.

[StevenD]

I had already moved by the 27th, so the payments are short of a full 5Nd, but at current payments, I doubt the shortfally being more than 0.0001x, the 27th payments were for work done within the rolling 5Nd, If I had set out to do a full comparison, I might have set a full and proper start and stop, and taken more care, but the issue is that the payment drop is so much that it really sticks out no matter what.

On the alternative pool that I am trying , my current  Estimated Daily Reward is  0.00234946 BTC  and this has been pretty much true for the last few days.

This is almost twice the payment I received in November per day when this pool was 2ph and quite number of times more than the S3 receives now its 6ph.

How much were other people receiving in November, am I going nuts, or is it only me that seen a drop.

per 1000GH, how much per day, as an average reward did people get when the pool was 2ph, compared to now its 6ph ?

Ste

[ZACHM]

Here are my numbers for November and December so far:


November
Avg Hash Rate = 15.605 THs
Total BTC = 3.75469745
BTC/THs = 0.2405964438
BTC/THs/Day = 0.2405964438 / 30 days = 0.00801988146

December
Avg Hash Rate = 15.945 THs
Total BTC = 3.21162685
BTC/THs = 0.2014151087
BTC/THs/Day = 0.2014151087 / 27 days = 0.00745981884


So that is a decrease of 0.00056006262 BTC/THs/Day or about 7%
Difficulty has increase 50% so I think a decrease of only 7% is pretty good.

[kano]

Regarding StevenD's payout.

You didn't mine very much at all.

The diff since you started mining (10-November) have been:
Block: 389088   Diff: 93448670796.324   Since: 2015-12-18 20:09:07.197 UTC   PPS: 0.02675 satoshi per 1 diff share
Block: 387072   Diff: 79102380900.226   Since: 2015-12-06 23:30:40.718 UTC   PPS: 0.03160 satoshi per 1 diff share
Block: 385056   Diff: 72722780642.547   Since: 2015-11-24 02:34:53.816 UTC   PPS: 0.03438 satoshi per 1 diff share
Block: 383040   Diff: 65848255179.703   Since: 2015-11-11 10:12:04.127 UTC   PPS: 0.03797 satoshi per 1 diff share
Block: 381024   Diff: 62253982449.761   Since: 2015-10-29 04:25:51.207 UTC   PPS: 0.04016 satoshi per 1 diff share

For the range around 24-Dec you mined from part way into shift Dec-23 14:26:35, to part way into shift Dec-24 09:06:25
So that was actually less than a day worth of mining.
To be exact, it was from 2015-12-23 14:44:12  to 2015-12-24 09:16:55 = 18hrs 32min 43s
(but you submitted 12 shares before that while disconnecting and reconnecting workers)
Your S3 averaged around 436.29 GHs for that time

The total difficulty you submitted was 6,847,686
At 436GHs that would be expected to take 67455s = 18hrs 44min 16s ... so that's pretty close

Anyway, 6,847,686 * PPS = 6,847,686 * 0.02675 / 10^8 = 0.00183176 BTC <- 100% PPS value for those shares

--

The actual db storage of all your shares (just showing valid difficulty you submitted and the bitcoin difficulty range) is:

Code:

 diffacc  |   bits
----------+----------
  8277724 | 180bc409
        0 | 180f1e76
 13514246 | 1810b289
  1091829 | 1811a954

i.e. 100% PPS for all your shares submitted is:
8277724 * 0.02675 + 13514246 * 0.03797 + 1091829 * 0.04016 = 0.00778413 BTC

Your total rewards: 0.00732936 = 0.00732936 / 0.00778413 PPS = 94.2% PPS

--

The blocks after the last time you mined (18.5hrs) have been 121.169%, 190.836%, 193.605%, 8.930% with a mean of 128.638% or luck of 77.74% ...

--

So basically, your mining stints have been very short and thus would expect to be subject to high variance, your last mining stint was before the last 4 blocks with a luck of only 77.74% so far, and yet you still have 94.2% PPS on all your shares so far ...

I'm not seeing anything like you suggest ... ...

--

Edit: also I'm not sure why you keep showing the fact that you don't mine for 5Nd and then say you should get 5Nd?
If you mine for 18.5 hours out of 4 days then your average hash rate will of course be MUCH lower than your miner says.
Simple math 426 * 18.5/96 = 82GHs

Look at the shifts page ... that shows you getting around 436.29 GHs for the last lot of shifts except the first and last shift that you didn't mine the whole shift.

[sky_g]

HERE IS ONE MORE MOST IMPORTANT INFORMATION

On Kano pool Kano or Ck support is great no word to explain (Sometime i do not understand complete maths but its OK. I have trust in them).

On other pool like ant pool support is equivalent to zero...let me put in other word they will steal your hash power and will tell you to fuck off.

I am putting above lines after having experience with antpool.

If someone want a good support + good BTC + free knowledge this is the place.....


This is my view...i leave rest you guys to decide.

[StevenD]

Hi ZACHM, Thanks

7% is good (if lower can ever be good), I really was expecting a larger drop, I thought it would pretty much have to be inline with the increase in pool hash.

What i wonder is, if you have dropped most or all of the 7% only since the hash increase, that your drop might infact be larger for a full month at current hash rate, that your 7% over your month is because your buffered with the first part of December you were getting a larger reward for the work done then at the 2ph, than you are while its at 5.75ph,

I don't suppose anyone could do the same for first week of December or last week that the pool was at 2ph and then the same for this latest week while the pool was at the 5+ph.

Ste



Kano...

regards your reply, the account that I have been using from my examples, isn't the one that most of the S3's are on, this account is the one that I have been testing and setting up , and its been and used similar, intermittent throughout the whole time its been used, and the drop seems noticeable over this last week on this and also on another account, (friend whom I recommended to use Kano) with 4xS3 has been online for long enough to have a full 5Nd and was also showing the same relative drop now the pool is circa 6ph,

my reason for posting here was only because I saw someone else post similar a few days ago, that they had noticed a drop in their rewards, and before that I hadn't noticed it, but having read the answers to the other poster, It seemed on checking to me that its not possible to stay anything like the same reward level now that the hash rate has almost tripled unless I/we mine with more miners, or unless the pool finds many more blocks within the 5Nd or to move the miners to somewhere that has generally found more blocks per day and mine PPS,   I am coming late to mining, but I am sure that many of the people mining here have already done the same and tested different pools. I did it for a month before I found and recommended the kano pool but that was whileit was 2ph, being almost 6ph seems to give different results, and you probably saw I made a particular point to not name any other pool with regards to your work, which like always is commendable .

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the pool, if i had 100th of the current 6ph I would be chuffed to bits, and totally silent, but with only a handful of S3's, and we cannot afford to double the amount miners online. I am still unsure, was I looking at a drop inline with hash rate increase, or is that buffered by any extra found blocks, found because of the extra hash rate.  I am wondering what to do..

Ste

[kano]

...
It seemed on checking to me that its not possible to stay anything like the same reward level now that the hash rate has almost tripled unless I/we mine with more miners, or unless the pool finds many more blocks within the 5Nd
...

Sorry, that's incorrect.

That's the point of the whole detail of my post above.

The reward is of course dependent upon luck.
If you join just as luck drops, then your reward will be low until luck changes.
If you join just as luck increases, then your reward will be hi until luck changes.

You CANNOT know when luck will change.
It also happens to change with every single block found.

If you join then mine long term, then the reward is expected to be ... as I have stated many times before ... 99.1% - orphans + txn fees

Your reward level is directly related to the network difficulty and has nothing to do with your hash rate.
It doesn't matter what your hash rate is since EVERY share is paid the same amount per reward as everyone else.
Yeah if someone has 100,000,000 diff shares in a reward range and you have 10,000,000 then yep they'll get 10x what you get ... EXACTLY 10x.
That's what the shift page shows - the same numbers on the right for everyone.

Even your total PPS payout on that account is 94.2% with the current 4 blocks of not so good luck, so I can't see even how you would come up with that statement above.

[dmwardjr]

Last three months i was on different pool . Eventually all pool pay in same range with PPS system.

With PPLNS -With current rate (As Hash power increase on Kano)_we must find 2 blocks a day to get  paid better than PPS.

In month of Oct 1 block a day using PPLNS was enough get paid more than PPS system.

Above is general conclusion.

If i am wrong consider as a mistake...correct the mistake and we move on.

Thanks
Sky

Our present pool hash rate as of this writing is 5,665 TH/s.  If you enter in that hash rate on Bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty, you will see that amount of hash rate should earn approximately 30.49BTC per day at present difficulty of 93,448,670,796.

If you divide 30.49BTC by 25BTC per block, that would be 1.2196 blocks per day.  This [more or less] means the pool needs to find 5 blocks every 4 days on average to maintain 100% luck at current pool hash rate and current difficulty.

So, the math I have demonstrated disproves your assumption that... "we must find 2 blocks a day to get paid better than PPS."

David

EDIT:  If we found 1.2196 blocks a day [Or, 5 blocks in 4 days], we actually got paid better than PPS.  Especially, if you factor in the fees of 2.5% to 3.6% fees of PPS compared to the 0.9% fee here.  The only way to know this for sure is to stay on here 30 days minimum.  Even then is not quite good enough to compare.  You would need to stay on here 3 to 5 months to see for sure.  If you tried this only 8 days to see if we find 10 or more blocks in those 8 days, that may not be enough because it depends on when you entered for those 8 days.  You may have started mining shortly after a day where 2 blocks were just found.  Also, it would take you close to 5 days to reach full payout.  So, if any one tried this pool out to compare it to other pools in terms of payout, you would need to be on here 13 days minimum.  But like I said, that's not giving the pool proper time to compare to a PPS pool.

[d57heinz]

anyone else failover?

Best Regards
d57heinz

[kano]

Sorry, everyone will have had a 2 minute drop out there with failover and fail back.

The data centre dropped out for 2 minutes ... I'm chasing them down to find out why.

It does happen to be one of the biggest data centres around ... in Vegas, so it's not like someone pulled the plug ... but anyway everyone has now failed back to kano.is

Edit: the 2 minutes was from 01:14 UTC