[Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[disclaimer201]

By the way, has anybody received any communication from Bitcoin Consultancy regarding the refund requests? I have filled one on the 16 but haven't heard anything yet.

I haven't heard anything yet apart from an email acknowledgement of my claim.

Not cool. A timeplan, some updates, anything would be good. Is it already time to call you Intersango guys scammers again? I'm getting very pissed at this wall of non-communication. It's my money. It does not belong to you guys, and you messed it up. Follow through with your responsibility. Don't fuck up Bitcoin for me and apparently 5000 others. What other options to speed up the process are left?

Bitcoinica is just doing people a favor by providing an object lesson in 'counterparty risk'.  People can (sometimes) conjure up some pixels on their monitor stating that they have NNN.NNN BTC...and they believed it.  What they actually have is a loose promise that a counterparty (Bitcoinica and it's nebulous owners) will give them up to that number of BTC or $$$ equiv if they ask for them.

It amazes me that so many people are so anti-Bitcoin in that they cannot except what it is and love it for it's unusual strengths.  A life-time of training under our current monetary solutions has had it's effect I guess.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, I will take it to heart and never trust a Bitcoin related business again with any substantial amount of coin/cash.

[tvbcof]

Bitcoinica is just doing people a favor by providing an object lesson in 'counterparty risk'.  People can (sometimes) conjure up some pixels on their monitor stating that they have NNN.NNN BTC...and they believed it.  What they actually have is a loose promise that a counterparty (Bitcoinica and it's nebulous owners) will give them up to that number of BTC or $$$ equiv if they ask for them.

It amazes me that so many people are so anti-Bitcoin in that they cannot except what it is and love it for it's unusual strengths.  A life-time of training under our current monetary solutions has had it's effect I guess.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, I will take it to heart and never trust a Bitcoin related business again with any substantial amount of coin/cash.

I had to balance trust in an exchange against the cost and convenience when I 'went in.'  In this case, I did my best to ascertain whether the business (Tradehill) was trustworthy, and even then I did my buying in batches (which meant I paid more for wire transfers) and took my BTC home ASAP as I purchased them.  This meant that I had some uncomfortable periods of time waiting for a buying opportunity and some tough decisions about when to send in wires since there was an indeterminate delay between sending the wires and being able to use the money.

Bitcoinica has something like $9.00 worth of combine value which used to be mine and which I probably won't even bother to try to re-obtain.  This relatively low number is, in part, because I am not simply trolling but do indeed believe what I say here and practice what I preach to the largest extent practical.  I also earnestly believe that the more people who share this philosophy, or at least consider it a bit before making financial decisions, the fewer the number of people who will be needlessly abused in the mishaps which lay before us.  A never-ending stream of past events lead me to believe that there will be many.

Bitcoin is somewhat unique in that it offers a realistic potential for very little counter-party risk.  This is one of the reasons it appeals to me so much, and I do try to make the most of it.

Here are a few of my favorite words of wisdom quasi-related to the subject:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCNGaafnAGk

[muyuu]

Bitcoinica is just doing people a favor by providing an object lesson in 'counterparty risk'.  People can (sometimes) conjure up some pixels on their monitor stating that they have NNN.NNN BTC...and they believed it.  What they actually have is a loose promise that a counterparty (Bitcoinica and it's nebulous owners) will give them up to that number of BTC or $$$ equiv if they ask for them.

It amazes me that so many people are so anti-Bitcoin in that they cannot except what it is and love it for it's unusual strengths.  A life-time of training under our current monetary solutions has had it's effect I guess.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, I will take it to heart and never trust a Bitcoin related business again with any substantial amount of coin/cash.

I had to balance trust in an exchange against the cost and convenience when I 'went in.'  In this case, I did my best to ascertain whether the business (Tradehill) was trustworthy, and even then I did my buying in batches (which meant I paid more for wire transfers) and took my BTC home ASAP as I purchased them.  This meant that I had some uncomfortable periods of time waiting for a buying opportunity and some tough decisions about when to send in wires since there was an indeterminate delay between sending the wires and being able to use the money.

Bitcoinica has something like $9.00 worth of combine value which used to be mine and which I probably won't even bother to try to re-obtain.  This relatively low number is, in part, because I am not simply trolling but do indeed believe what I say here and practice what I preach to the largest extent practical.  I also earnestly believe that the more people who share this philosophy, or at least consider it a bit before making financial decisions, the fewer the number of people who will be needlessly abused in the mishaps which lay before us.  A never-ending stream of past events lead me to believe that there will be many.

Bitcoin is somewhat unique in that it offers a realistic potential for very little counter-party risk.  This is one of the reasons it appeals to me so much, and I do try to make the most of it.

Here are a few of my favorite words of wisdom quasi-related to the subject:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCNGaafnAGk

If I had any amount at all in Bitcoinica I'd be saying what they're saying, regardless of thinking what you think. Obviously you factor your risk when you enter in an operation like this. You have to factor it even with regulated business, as we've seen these can also screw you - good luck getting any compensation from a bankrupt-declared business.

However whining is free and it sometimes work. So let them do it.

[disclaimer201]

Bitcoinica is just doing people a favor by providing an object lesson in 'counterparty risk'.  People can (sometimes) conjure up some pixels on their monitor stating that they have NNN.NNN BTC...and they believed it.  What they actually have is a loose promise that a counterparty (Bitcoinica and it's nebulous owners) will give them up to that number of BTC or $$$ equiv if they ask for them.

It amazes me that so many people are so anti-Bitcoin in that they cannot except what it is and love it for it's unusual strengths.  A life-time of training under our current monetary solutions has had it's effect I guess.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, I will take it to heart and never trust a Bitcoin related business again with any substantial amount of coin/cash.

I had to balance trust in an exchange against the cost and convenience when I 'went in.'  In this case, I did my best to ascertain whether the business (Tradehill) was trustworthy, and even then I did my buying in batches (which meant I paid more for wire transfers) and took my BTC home ASAP as I purchased them.  This meant that I had some uncomfortable periods of time waiting for a buying opportunity and some tough decisions about when to send in wires since there was an indeterminate delay between sending the wires and being able to use the money.

Bitcoinica has something like $9.00 worth of combine value which used to be mine and which I probably won't even bother to try to re-obtain.  This relatively low number is, in part, because I am not simply trolling but do indeed believe what I say here and practice what I preach to the largest extent practical.  I also earnestly believe that the more people who share this philosophy, or at least consider it a bit before making financial decisions, the fewer the number of people who will be needlessly abused in the mishaps which lay before us.  A never-ending stream of past events lead me to believe that there will be many.

Bitcoin is somewhat unique in that it offers a realistic potential for very little counter-party risk.  This is one of the reasons it appeals to me so much, and I do try to make the most of it.

Here are a few of my favorite words of wisdom quasi-related to the subject:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCNGaafnAGk

If I had any amount at all in Bitcoinica I'd be saying what they're saying, regardless of thinking what you think. Obviously you factor your risk when you enter in an operation like this. You have to factor it even with regulated business, as we've seen these can also screw you - good luck getting any compensation from a bankrupt-declared business.

However whining is free and it sometimes work. So let them do it.

Whining is free, but this isn't about whining, it's about accountability or lack thereof. It is in one's own best interest to make your customers good. Bitcoin consultancy will have to worry about lawsuits, or won't they? They might just as well have to close their beloved Intersango shop soon if word gets out. People get mugged for much less than a couple thousand dollars on the street. And Zhou will have headaches for a long time for it isn't really his decision not to get involved in Bitcoin start-ups again. His reputation simply won't allow for that anymore if claims aren't fulfilled.

[muyuu]

Whining is free, but this isn't about whining, it's about accountability or lack thereof. It is in one's own best interest to make your customers good. Bitcoin consultancy will have to worry about lawsuits, or won't they? They might just as well have to close their beloved Intersango shop soon if words gets out. People get mugged for much less than a couple thousand dollars on the street. And Zhou will have headaches for a long time for it isn't really his decision not to get involved in Bitcoin start-ups again. His reputation simply won't allow for that anymore if claims aren't fulfilled.

They know that don't they. We're talking about counter-party risk here.

All I see here is fair play in the social engineering game. (EDIT: this was directed at tvbcof and it wasn't 9BTC but 9$ in BTC) By going ahead and saying you won't give it a second thought if you don't get your 9BTC back, you certainly don't help your case. You took your time and illustrated us about your PoV for the whopping sum of 0BTC and maybe some entertainment. Well, these people might be getting just as much entertainment value by venting here, and also might have their x BTC at stake back.

PS: People do get mugged a lot less in the UK, though.

EDIT: replied to the wrong post, shouldn't post first thing in the morning.

[disclaimer201]

Whining is free, but this isn't about whining, it's about accountability or lack thereof. It is in one's own best interest to make your customers good. Bitcoin consultancy will have to worry about lawsuits, or won't they? They might just as well have to close their beloved Intersango shop soon if words gets out. People get mugged for much less than a couple thousand dollars on the street. And Zhou will have headaches for a long time for it isn't really his decision not to get involved in Bitcoin start-ups again. His reputation simply won't allow for that anymore if claims aren't fulfilled.

They know that don't they. We're talking about counter-party risk here.

All I see here is fair play in the social engineering game. By going ahead and saying you won't give it a second thought if you don't get your 9BTC back, you certainly don't help your case. You took your time and illustrated us about your PoV for the whopping sum of 0BTC and maybe some entertainment. Well, these people might be getting just as much entertainment value by venting here, and also might have their x BTC at stake back.

PS: People do get mugged a lot less in the UK, though.

101 BTC in my case. Luckily I withdrew another 100 just two days before it happened.

[unclescrooge]

I withdrew all my 100 btc just one day before this hack happen. Seing as it goes, you cannot believe how lucky I feel

[Jointops420]

The silence is deafening. I had a hundred sitting with bitcoinica and I would like to get it back.

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

The silence is deafening. I had a hundred sitting with bitcoinica and I would like to get it back.

I have 5000, its not just you.

[shad0wbitz]

It seems that Patrick Strateman, Donald Norman, and Amir Taaki, collectively known as Intersango / Bitcoin Consultancy, and also known as "the nimrods that were hired to secure Bitcoinica and failed miserably" are getting ready for the storm heading out their way. How you ask? This way:

1) Create some sort of diversion to buy time. In this case, a "Claim Form" to buy them a few more weeks until they build their legal defense. Make no mistake: not a penny will be returned by them, since the hacker erased all 33 VMs of bitcoinica, and their database with it. Seriously, think about it, do you really believe they had an offsite backup? To quote Jack Nicholson in As Good As it Gets: THINK WHITE AND GET SERIOUS. Their legal defense will consist on "total loss of data due to security breach" but they need some time to keep the Bitcoinica investors from making too much noise while their prepare their writs.

2) Commence to dismantle their shady businesses. As you can see, bitcoinconsultancy.com is GONE. TRY IT for yourself. The least traces the better. Let's take down the less visited, less public site first, should we?

https://bitcoinconsultancy.com



Of course, don't be surprised if the site magically find its way up again after this post, claiming some sort of "technical problem" while being publicly called out.

The reality is: There is NO mysterious investor. Bitcoin Consultancy BOUGHT Bitcoinica, and now they won't step up to the plate due to the fact that the three of them are highly incompetent and shady. The "mysterious investor" excuse won't hold for long, but by the time people realizes that the "claim form" is just a scam to buy time, it might be too late.

The funny part? The about us for Patrick Strateman on Intersango: "Patrick Strateman as CTO with a specialty in security..."

I think before making such claim, you should learn at least how to secure a fucking mail server, let alone a trading website.

INTERSANGO: If you have any funds with them, you might want to consider withdrawing them just about fucking now!

[Scott J]

The reality is: There is NO mysterious investor. Bitcoin Consultancy BOUGHT Bitcoinica, and now they won't step up to the plate due to the fact that the three of them are highly incompetent and shady. The "mysterious investor" excuse won't hold for long, but by the time people realizes that the "claim form" is just a scam to buy time, it might be too late.

What evidence do you have for this?

None, I imagine.

[dizzy1]

The reality is: There is NO mysterious investor. Bitcoin Consultancy BOUGHT Bitcoinica, and now they won't step up to the plate due to the fact that the three of them are highly incompetent and shady. The "mysterious investor" excuse won't hold for long, but by the time people realizes that the "claim form" is just a scam to buy time, it might be too late.

What evidence do you have for this?

None, I imagine.

Is there any to suggest otherwise?

[Scott J]

The reality is: There is NO mysterious investor. Bitcoin Consultancy BOUGHT Bitcoinica, and now they won't step up to the plate due to the fact that the three of them are highly incompetent and shady. The "mysterious investor" excuse won't hold for long, but by the time people realizes that the "claim form" is just a scam to buy time, it might be too late.

What evidence do you have for this?

None, I imagine.

Is there any to suggest otherwise?

We could all make up conspiracy theories, but it doesn't help anyone get their money back.

Again, do you have any evidence?

[bitcoinBull]

By the way, has anybody received any communication from Bitcoin Consultancy regarding the refund requests? I have filled one on the 16 but haven't heard anything yet.

A very good question.

I haven't heard anything yet apart from an email acknowledgement of my claim.

Neither have I.

Again, do you have any evidence?

How about the fact that their company website has apparently disappeared now and nobody has heard anything from these bastards for almost a 7 days now?

[bitcoinBull]

Back to the question of WHEN WILL WE SEE THE FIRST FUNDS BACK TO THE CUSTOMERS? This timing may well lead to more volatility of bitcoin trading and to know this date would be very much appreciated.

Very good question.

[bitcoinBull]

This should help in tracking them. bitcointalk.org usernames:

Bitcoinica Consultancy

intersango

genjix (Amir Taaki)

phantomcircuit (Patrick Strateman)

[imsaguy]

This should help in tracking them. bitcointalk.org usernames:

Bitcoinica Consultancy

intersango

genjix (Amir Taaki)

phantomcircuit (Patrick Strateman)

Name:   Bitcoinica Consultancy
Posts:   4
Position:   Whitelisted
Date Registered:   May 15, 2012, 12:42:47 PM
Last Active:   May 21, 2012, 11:25:03 PM

Name:   intersango
Posts:   38
Position:   Jr. Member
Date Registered:   January 29, 2012, 08:01:15 PM
Last Active:   May 16, 2012, 02:40:19 PM

Name:   genjix
Posts:   1565
Position:   Hero Member
Date Registered:   October 17, 2010, 09:07:02 PM
Last Active:   May 20, 2012, 06:04:53 AM

Name:   phantomcircuit
Posts:   258
Position:   Sr. Member
Date Registered:   February 14, 2011, 04:52:29 PM
Last Active:   May 21, 2012, 09:54:19 PM

oh, and a time reference.. this was posted at 8:42 AM on May 22, 2012.

[bitclown]

Qui tacet consentire videtur.

[muyuu]

It seems that Patrick Strateman, Donald Norman, and Amir Taaki, collectively known as Intersango / Bitcoin Consultancy, and also known as "the nimrods that were hired to secure Bitcoinica and failed miserably" are getting ready for the storm heading out their way.
[...]
INTERSANGO: If you have any funds with them, you might want to consider withdrawing them just about fucking now!

Could also be that you are a little paranoid? or do they also refuse to pick up the phone or reply to emails.

[stochastic]

It would be nice if they gave us some info... Or let us know they have not run...  The limit to file legal charges in NZ I think is 40 days. Anyone know more about this?

I would say file the charges.  I wonder how much money was in Bitconica at the time it shut down.  The NZ department I mentioned earlier only does investigations on fraud that causes more than $2 million (I am guessing NZD) from investors.